just a question

[Rojcewicz]

For me the "coolness", the iconic image of kung fu masters, was a big part of what got me involved in kung fu, and the idea of becoming a wise and skilled master still drives me. This to me is extremely important to my experience, as kung fu offers me, beyond the image, an extremely deep culture and history to draw from as well as the high and incredibly cool standard of becoming a true, pei mei like, master; alternatively, if I was practicing MMA i would feel like the highest standard I was attempting to reach was that of a skilled fighter, woopdee doo. Of course this just my own fantasy but Im glad to live in it. So how important do you think "coolness" was to your martial arts choice?

[David Jamieson]

My dad got me into it as a small kid.

so i grew up doing it. I don't think I was old enough to build fantasies.
It's always been a pragmatic thing for me.

A skill that is useful and can, if need be serve as a commodity.

i don't think I was ever thinking about being a levitating 94 year old monk.

I just didn't want to be a pants down sand eater when push came to shove.

since then, I've learned that I can withstand a pretty good beating that takes a week for just the swelling to go down and that I could do it more than once! lol :D

[SPJ]

to me, it is not a fantasy.

it is just like a chore or a lot of work.

seeing many people practicing kung fu in taipei park.

so I just like to do b/c everyone else is doing it?

a lot of sweat, and pain

--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QFZrq3ss20&feature=related

coolness may be from the images of movie fu.

--

:D;):p

[冠木侍]

Regarding martial arts in general, I always thought that it was "cool." Watching old Jackie Chan films and movies like"Bloodsport" bring back fond memories. Even though I thought it looked cool, I was never going to consider taking up any type of training.

What changed my mind was that I was physically threatened by someone who trained in TCM some time ago. The opposing party had lost a verbal argument against me and the only recourse was a physical threat. It put a bad taste in my mouth about "Kung Fu" in general (at the time I didn't know as much about it as I do now) just because I associated it with that type of mentality. In time I realize that not all Southern stylists have a thug mentality. I find that nothing is really ever a certainty anymore. Just take everything one at a time (unless I am doing multiple opponent drills :) )

This experience has left an indelible scar (based on circumstances that need not be mentioned).

Now, in my "old age" I am still weary of people who consider themselves martial artists. There is so much instruction available on any type of art that most people nowadays have a good amount of access to it (especially those I deem unworthy).

Now, I find that the younger generation is in dire need of some humility. :D

[David Jamieson]

having access to information doesn't equal actual correct practice that returns results.

just wanted to pop that in there. :)

also, in my previous post, i said i wasn't old enough to build fantasies. but I should have mentioned "in context to martial arts" lol. I could play a mean game of cops n robbers, cowboys and indians etc etc of course at the time. :P

[Pork Chop]

For me the "coolness", the iconic image of kung fu masters, was a big part of what got me involved in kung fu, and the idea of becoming a wise and skilled master still drives me. This to me is extremely important to my experience, as kung fu offers me, beyond the image, an extremely deep culture and history to draw from as well as the high and incredibly cool standard of becoming a true, pei mei like, master; alternatively, if I was practicing MMA i would feel like the highest standard I was attempting to reach was that of a skilled fighter, woopdee doo. Of course this just my own fantasy but Im glad to live in it. So how important do you think "coolness" was to your martial arts choice?

....

Your "iconic image of kung fu masters" is something born of movies, for what were the old masters save good fighters? You can watch movies and dream about pulling off crazy moves that are a distant cousin to the real thing; or you can watch skilled fighters (woopdee doo) pulling of crazy moves that really work. Your choice....
Don't get me wrong, I understand the fantasy... it took me a long time to see it for what it was.

[Becca]

Not sure if it was "cool" or not, but it was fasinating. I'd watch Kung fu Theater with my dad and be amazed at the acrobatics. They seemed to be more useful then the stuff my mother watched. As an adult, I now realize that there isn't any real difference between wester gymnastics and westernized kung fu, other than the fact that there is some use for a wheel kick and none what so ever to a balance beam. :p

[sanjuro_ronin]

The myth of the "kung fu master" was one that I quickly lost as it was replaced by "martial arts ******* " !
:D

Man, I've know a few real big *******s too !
Of course, they were/are just like their masters and their masters before them.

The "enlightened kung fu master" ( or any MA master) is hard to find than the real WC !
:eek:

[Pork Chop]

I have always seen the old masters as being cool- actually, i think cool is not the right word for it. More like a role model or someone to look up to. The kung fu image is what drives alot of people to choose kung fu over other martial arts- the whol Pai Mei thing- the old master beating people with a stick. For me it was more the deeper meaning in Kung Fu that got me into it. Kung Fu has something that other martial arts lack. Philosophy- and more importantly, spirituality. But of course the image is an added bonus.

We talking Pai Mei from the kill bill movies?
You know that was a character in a movie right?
The most often recognized Pai Mei was the one who hunted down Rebels and burned down the Southern Shaolin temple from the book Evergreen (10,000 years green).
As far as the real guy, little to nothing is known.

Wong Fei Hung's another one with a nice reputation in the movies; and while he was a pretty stand up guy into old age, as a young'in stories go that he was a bit of a he||raiser.

I promise that you'll see at least as much philosophy & spirituality during the ram muay at the beginning of most muay thai matches than you'll hear in most mogwoon. In western sports, you've got the concept of sportsmanship - which has a long history of producing athletes of good moral character. A lot of kung fu schools have a long history of being tied to organized crime for chrissakes....

[MasterKiller]

We talking Pai Mei from the kill bill movies?
Technically, he was in Fists of the White Lotus and Executioners from Shaolin first.


I promise that you'll see at least as much philosophy & spirituality during the ram muay at the beginning of most muay thai matches than you'll hear in most mogwoon. In western sports, you've got the concept of sportsmanship - which has a long history of producing athletes of good moral character. A lot of kung fu schools have a long history of being tied to organized crime for chrissakes.... Here here!

[David Jamieson]

Here here!

that's "Hear hear" bud. :p

[MasterKiller]

that's "Hear hear" bud. :p

No, PorkChop is dead s3xy. I meant HERE!

[IronWeasel]

The "enlightened kung fu master" ( or any MA master) is hard to find than the real WC !


Zing!!!!!!

[David Jamieson]

No, PorkChop is dead s3xy. I meant HERE!

wow, gay mandate love site this was not...until now. gulp. lol

[Rojcewicz]

....

Your "iconic image of kung fu masters" is something born of movies, for what were the old masters save good fighters? You can watch movies and dream about pulling off crazy moves that are a distant cousin to the real thing; or you can watch skilled fighters (woopdee doo) pulling of crazy moves that really work. Your choice....
Don't get me wrong, I understand the fantasy... it took me a long time to see it for what it was.

yes, it is born from movies but that doesn't make it any less meaningful for although the characters are not real, the concepts and principles which they capture are; thats what interested me.

[Pork Chop]

yes, it is born from movies but that doesn't make it any less meaningful for although the characters are not real, the concepts and principles which they capture are; thats what interested me.

What I'm trying to get at is those principles, concepts and beliefs were likely NOT to have been held by the people portrayed in those movies. A lot of that stuff is just for good dramatic effect. The fantasy and the reality are two completely different things. If you like the fantasy, that's cool; but using that as justification for the disparaging of the reality of other styles, not-so-much...


DJ

I hear it's not ghey if you don't maintain eye contact...

[Rojcewicz]

What I'm trying to get at is those principles, concepts and beliefs were likely NOT to have been held by the people portrayed in those movies. A lot of that stuff is just for good dramatic effect. The fantasy and the reality are two completely different things. If you like the fantasy, that's cool; but using that as justification for the disparaging of the reality of other styles, not-so-much...


DJ

I hear it's not ghey if you don't maintain eye contact...

your right, but I only ever ment to speak in the realm of fantasy. If Pei Mei like master actually existed is entirely questionable but what does exist is their mythology. What Im simply stating is that I prefer the mythology of kung fu to that of MMA. I feel in MMA their is a considerable lack of interesting mythology although the actual style is entirely respectably. For me though, I wanted to follow the mythology I had fallen in love with; after all, what you imagin becoming (realistic or not) is an important part of anything which takes continues work to achieve.

[Rojcewicz]

[QUOTE=Rojcewicz;855905]

[golden arhat]

i started in tkd at like age 6 so coolness came in first with "the mighty morphin power rangers"

[Lucas]

I was born cool, I'll die cool, thus as a by product, my kungfu is cool.

[Lucas]

your right, but I only ever ment to speak in the realm of fantasy. If Pei Mei like master actually existed is entirely questionable but what does exist is their mythology. What Im simply stating is that I prefer the mythology of kung fu to that of MMA. I feel in MMA their is a considerable lack of interesting mythology although the actual style is entirely respectably. For me though, I wanted to follow the mythology I had fallen in love with; after all, what you imagin becoming (realistic or not) is an important part of anything which takes continues work to achieve.

This is a similar aspect to shamanism, which is also a large part of kungfu itself...

[Rojcewicz]

This is a similar aspect to shamanism, which is also a large part of kungfu itself...

really? how so?

[Lucas]

really? how so?

Many styles of chinese martial arts are based on animals. Animal movements, as well as the spirit of the animal.

Such as in, tiger style, you draw into your being the spirit of the tiger. The ruthless, merciless aspects that the tiger embodies in combat or on the hunt. The strength of the tiger is something we strive to 'become' when we perform or utilize our tiger methods.

Or, for instance, if we seek the crane, we will try to embody the tranquility and calm that the crane symbolizes.

The monkey's playful attitude and upbeat demenor, the dragons power and elusive wisdom...

All of these are aspects that are ingraned into the styles.

This is the aspect I refer to as 'shamanism', for in a sense it is.

Yet, these are merely tools. Not to be thought of in the sense a more mystical type of shamanism.

This mindset is a tool used to develop your studies.

As with you, in your case, you try to embody the spirit of these hero's to aid you in your persuits. such as the fictional pei mei. This gives you motivation, as well as a source to draw spiritual energy from. As he may not be a real guy, the spirit of his being is quite real.

This, IMO, is essentially the same thing. Although you are not mimicing 'pei mei' body movements, such as tiger style will mimic the movements of the animal. None the less, you still us the 'way' or 'spirit' of this mindset to aid you in a similar fashion.

This, of course, is all my own opinion and outlook. Not to be taken as anything other than that.

My, as well as many others, ancestors (germanic) used a similar method in their ways of war. They would infuse themselves with the spirit, or Wyrd, of their ancestors that fought before them, as well as call upon the power of their gods, through the use of carved Runes to aid them spiritually in combat.

IMO this is all very similar, though quite different in execution, the result being quite similar however.

Drawing from the spirit of an external source. Whether this be the spirit of an existant animal, a non existant animal, a past leader, a false god....what have you.

It is an attempt to use what is percieved as an aidful state of mind drawn from something that is held of asteem and high regard. Perhaps a specific quality an animal posesses, or a way of action a great man once served.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Speed of the puma, strength of the bear !

Hairdo of the common city chipmunk !
:D

[Lucas]

Speed of the puma, strength of the bear !

Hairdo of the common city chipmunk !
:D

I was actually waiting for:

The eye of the spiritual Tiger of the spiritual...

or something to that fashion. ;):p

[sanjuro_ronin]

I was actually waiting for:

The eye of the spiritual Tiger of the spiritual...

or something to that fashion. ;):p

Kudos if you can name the Cartoon that was from.

[Lucas]

Kudos if you can name the Cartoon that was from.

I get no Kudo's. Didnt know it was from a cartoon, just that our resident John Takashi/Megafist/Megatroll/etc. always says it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I get no Kudo's. Didnt know it was from a cartoon, just that our resident John Takashi/Megafist/Megatroll/etc. always says it.

I meant the "speed of the puma, strength of the bear, eyes of the hawk" and so on..

[SPJ]

yes I strive or wish to have the back of the tiger and the waist of the bear.

hu bei xiong yao.

white eyebrown mentioned was a mystical figure.

but white eyebrown daoist priest is very common.

bai mei dao ren or dao zhang.

they existed thruout history even today. I meant when a daoist priest gets old, they all get white hairs, white beards and white eyebrown.

:D

[Lucas]

I meant the "speed of the puma, strength of the bear, eyes of the hawk" and so on..

Oh, LOL

wasnt that some old futuristic cowboy or indian or something.

[golden arhat]

I meant the "speed of the puma, strength of the bear, eyes of the hawk" and so on..

wait

hmmmm

i seem to remember ssomething like



FORM OF AN EAGLE

SHAPE OF DRAGON

ACTIVATE!!!!!




either that or the bit for rex kwan do in napoleon dynamite

[sanjuro_ronin]

Oh, LOL

wasnt that some old futuristic cowboy or indian or something.

very good, Indian, name?

[Lucas]

very good, Indian, name?

dude, for that, ill have to use my googlefu. but then that would be cheating.....but wait, im a kungfu guy, cheating is my thing right?

[sanjuro_ronin]

dude, for that, ill have to use my googlefu. but then that would be cheating.....but wait, im a kungfu guy, cheating is my thing right?

eye gouge and big toe to the prostate for the win !!

[SoCo KungFu]

eye gouge and big toe to the prostate for the win !!

This is the most perfect depiction of the unity of internal and external that can be made.

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXWUZsXgPzk&feature=related

white eyebrown style/school.

iron lion fist.

:eek::D;):)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Superfriends; Wonder Twins; yes, I am a geek

Bah !!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bravestarr

You all lack chi !!

[Lucas]

wait, so hes a cowboy indian. I was kinda right...