If you had to distill Northern Mantis into just 6 sets

[Royal Dragon]

If you had to distill Northern Mantis into just 6 sets, which 6 would you pick and why?

Also, what are the oldest known Mantis sets?

[Mantis_Reborn]

Wushu Sets Are U Kidding Me???

[gunglihchuan]

The six sets I would choose that define my mantis style (CCK Tai Chi Mantis are)

1. Bung Bu- Crushing Step, The first Northern mantis set created by Wang Lang
and the set that influenced all mantis material

2. Bah Zhao- Eight Elbows- This set is very long and is usually taught in two
parts. It focuses on the correct usage of elbow strikes.

3. Lan Jie Chuan- Intercepting and Deflecting Fist. This set expands on what
is learned in Bung Bu and Bah Zhao and concentrates on in
close fighting.

4. Lien Her Zhang- Six Harmony Palm. This set focuses on developmental
Northern Kung fu Skills, such as tornado kicks, broom
sweeps, and the scissors kick.

5. Yin Shou Gwan- Yin Hand Stick. This is the first staff set taught and it is
a very useful and practical set. It is traditional mantis
material not contemporary Wushu.

6. Bagua Lan Mun Dao- Guarding the Door Broadsword in Eight Directions.
This set is also supposedly created by Wang Lang
and teaches the broadsword techniques that he was
famous for.

Sincerely,
Steve

[taichi4eva]

Just wondering, Royal Dragon, why you picked the number 6?

I've read that the three original Mantis sets were bengbu, luanjie, and bazhou. Mantis108 has another interesting theory concerning Mishou, but I don't remember much, nor am I an expert on it. He would be THE mantis guy to ask!

[Mantis_Reborn]

Take your wushu sets to the street and see what you get!!!!!!!

I didn't say wushu was bad, just not for real combat,

Wushu belongs in a protected environment, just like the point fighting, not used in real combat situations, its pretty and looks nice.. The 7 star mantis i live by works in real combat situations.


No.

Yu Hai and Kwei Ding are badass when performed correctly.

Just cause its new doesn't make it bad.

It was all new at one time or another.

Of course a lot of the Yu Hai sets I see performed at tourneys are quite watered down compared to the original version. And I could see not being interested in them. The version we perform is very traditional in flavor tho, and a **** good workout.

[Tony Puyot]

Royal Dragon

That is a question I asked myself about 20 Years ago. Over time, as I developed the answer changed a bit. I will give you my current list and what I think is most productive for me. I only play these sets.

Bung Bu – The original mantis form and what I believe is physical manifestation of the 12 Character formula.

Lan Jit – The original form that I suspect might in some form pre-date bung bu and possibly mantis. The application of the ridged and flexible methods.

Between these two forms (some say the only forms Li San Jin taught) You have the core theory and techniques of mantis. I understand the mantis system has expanded form that time however I do not view this as a productive change.

Just one more opinion.

Side note: I do like the form “Stipulation Boxing” that was created recently and is said to be a true summary form.

[yu shan]

Mei Hua Lu
Beng Bu
Luan Jie

[Mantis_Reborn]

you want real sets?

1. Sup Sei Lo Tam Toy Kuen – 14 Routes Tams Kicking Maneuvers
2. Gung Lek Kuen - Strength exertion form
3. Bung Bo Kuen – Collapse Step Form
4. Sup Ba Sao Kuen – 18 Elders
5.Dar Gong Kuen – Avoiding Hardness form
6. Chaap Choy - Stabbing Fist
7.Hak Fu Gow Cha Kuen – Black Tiger Inter Sectional
8. Bak Yuen Chut Dung – White Ape Comes Out Of The Cave
9. Bak Yuen Tau Toe – White Ape Steals The Peach
10. Tong Long Chut Dung – Mantis Comes Out Of The Cave
11. Tong Long Tau Toe – Mantis Steals The Peach
12. Muy Fa Sao Kuen – Plum Blossom Hand
13. Muy Fa Lok Kuen – Plum Blossom Falling Fist
14. Muy Fa Kuen – Plum Blossom Fist
15. Sei Lau Bun Da Kuen – 4 Roads Quick Hitting
16. Dai Fan Che Kuen – Big (expanded) Spinning Wheel (revolution) Form
17. Siu Fan Che Kuen – Small (contracted) Revolution Form
18. Dai Ga Sik – Big Aggressive Boxing
19. Siu Ga Sik – Small Aggressive Boxing
20. Yat Lo Jak Yiu Kuen – First Route Essential Techniques (extrapolation)
21. Yee Lo Jak Yiu Kuen – Second Route Extrapolation Form
22. Saam Lo Jak Yiu Kuen – Third Route Extrapolation Form
23. Yau Ling Jang – Soft Energy Elbow
24. Yau Ling Jeung – Soft Energy Palm
25. Yau Ling Kuen – Soft Energy Fist
26. Yau Ling Toy – Soft Energy Kicks
27. Yau Loong Jeung – Swimming Dragon Palm (lit. flexible dragon)
28. Lan Jeet Kuen – Interception Boxing
29. Yat Lo Muy Fa Toy – First Route Plum Blossom Leg (kicks)
30. Yee Lo Muy Fa Toy – Second Route Plum Blossom Leg (kicks)
31. Muy Fa Fei Toy – Plum Blossom Flying Kicks
32. Yat Lo Tong Long Sao – First Route Mantis Hands
33. Yee Lo Tong Long Sao – Second Route Tong Long Sao
34. Fei Ngan Jeung – Flying Goose Palm
35. Muy Fa Jeung – Plum Blossom Palm
36. Joy Lo Han Kuen – Drunken Lohan From
37. Lin Wan Gam Tao – Continuous Brocade Weaving
38. Dahn Chaap Fa – Singe Flower Arrangement (lit. stabbing flowers)
39. Seung Chaap Fa – Double Flower Arrangement
40. Dai Fu Ngan Kuen – Big Tiger and Goose Form
41. Siu Fu Ngan – Small Tiger and Goose Form
42. Tong Long Bo Suen – Mantis Whirling Step
43. Yat Lo Bak Yuen Kwai Yin Kuen – First Route White Ape Secretly Watches Banquet
44. Yee Lo Bak Yuen Kwai Yin – Second Route White Ape Secretly Watches Banquet
45. Yat Lo Baat Jang – First Route 8 Dominant Elbows
46. Yee Lo Baat Jang – Second Route 8 Dominant Elbows
47. Yat Lo Lok Ying Jeung – First Route Descending Eagle Palm
48. Yee Lo Lok Ying Jeung – Second Route Descending Eagle Palm
49. Yee Lo Hak Fu Gow Cha Kuen – Second Route Black Tiger Cross Path (intersectional)
50. Hak Fu Chut Dung – Black Tiger Comes Out Of The Cave
51. Hak Fu Tau Sum – Black Tiger Steals The Heart
52. Yat Lo Muy Fa Yau Loong Jeung – First Route Plum Blossom Swimming Dragon Palm
53. Yee Lo Muy Fa Yau Loong Jeung – Second Route Plum Blossom Swimming Dragon Palm
54. Chuen Wan Jeung – Cloud Thrust Palm
55. Hoy Au Kuen – Seagull Fist
56. Seung San Fu - Tiger Ascends the Mountain
57. Ha San Fu – Tiger Descends the Mountain
58. Yin Ji Chuen Lum – Swallow Penetrates the Forest
59. Muy Fa Ba Kik – Plum Blossom 8 Ultimates
60. Tong Long Ba Gwa Bo – 8 Diagram Step (longest form in the system)
61. Joy Bo Tong Long – Drunken Step Mantis
62. Yat Lo Tong Long Lin Wan Jak Yiu Sao – 1ST Route Continuous and Returning Extrapolation Hands
63. Yee Lo Tong Long Lin Wan Jak Yiu Sao – 2ND Route Continuous and Returning Extapolation Hands
64.Yat Lo Bak Yuen Bok Dau – 1ST Route White Ape Bows North
65. Yee Lo Bak Yuen Bok Dau – 2ND Route White Ape Bows North
66. Sup Ba Lo Han Gung – 18 Section Lo Han Chi Gung
67. Lin Wan Noy Gung – Continuous and Returning Inner Energy
68. Luk Lek Kuen – 6 Powers Fist
69. Gong Yau San Gung – Hard and Soft Energy Training
70. Tong Long Chut sing Bo
71. Noy Gung Fook Fu Kuen - Subduing Tiger internal form
72. Damo Yi Jin Jing - Damo's muscle change classic






LOL

Take your beng bo to teh str33ts and see what you get!!!!!

Mantis, 7 star in particular, has so many sets, that throwing in a wushu set isn't going to hurt anything. Distilling it to 6 sets is like saying, If you could distill the alphabet into 3 letters, what 3 would you choose. DDD.

http://www.reallybored.net/m_pictures/305.jpg

[mantis108]

I agreed with Sifu Puyot that the list could change over time due to experiences. In fact that's why you would have a situation of senior students having different materials then the junior students from different period. In the case of CCK TCPM, this is particularly true. For example, Xiao Fan Che and few other forms are missing in the "final" curriculum of GM Chiu. What is the reason to drop them? We could only speculate. But the fact remains that he picked 10 hand forms as the structure of his finally version.

Regardless of the number of forms in the system, one thing is certain. I was told by GM Chiu personally, and this is affirmed recently by my mentor Galen Fok also, that the 64 Sau Fa (Shou Fa) A.K.A. Taizu Duanda is without question the essence of CCK TCPM.

Personally, I have come to formulate a summary of my Tanglangquan experience based mainly on the CCK TCPM material.

foundation:

Qi Shou
Xiao Fan Che
Wu Shou Chui & Liu He Zhang (could replace with Bengbu)

Core:

Ba Duan Jin (8 pieces of brocade) and/or 18 Louhan
Lanjie & Bazhou (as one unbroken form)
Di Tanglang (ground mantis - optional)
Shaolin Fo Zhuang (Wooden Dummy)

2 men & applications

Pi Zha Wu Shou
Pai An
Taizu Duanda

Mantis108

[Royal Dragon]

Just wondering, Royal Dragon, why you picked the number 6?

I've read that the three original Mantis sets were bengbu, luanjie, and bazhou. Mantis108 has another interesting theory concerning Mishou, but I don't remember much, nor am I an expert on it. He would be THE mantis guy to ask!

Reply]
Actually I originally thought just 3, but I figured other's might not feel that is enough.

[Royal Dragon]

What is Taizu Duanda?

Any clips online?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Hey RD, question:
Why did you choose the term "distill"?
Why not "streamline" or even simplify?

[Royal Dragon]

I don't really know. I am distilling rice wine this week, maybe the word is on my brain?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I don't really know. I am distilling rice wine this week, maybe the word is on my brain?

Distill means to make weaker, less potent...

[Royal Dragon]

Hmm, then why does my wine become flamable after I distill it down to almost pure alcohol?

Distilling separates the heavier material, from the lighter. when you distill wine for instance, you are separating the lighter functional ingredients (alcohol), from the heavier filler fluids (water, left over fermentations etc...). This makes a super concentrated drink that can run a car engine.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Hmm, then why does my wine become flamable after I distill it down to almost pure alcohol?

Distilling separates the heavier material, from the lighter. when you distill wine for instance, you are separating the lighter functional ingredients (alcohol), from the heavier filler fluids (water, left over fermentations etc...). This makes a super concentrated drink that can run a car engine.

LOL !
Dude, sorry for the brain ****, I saw Distill and though DILUTE !

I am an a-hole !
:eek:

[Steeeve]

Boffff thats questions have a good timing


Since Mantis have a lot of repetition forms.....Probably 3 forms could do the job
of distilled ........I agree no body have the time to train 100 forms and nobody have the time to remember all this forms.........

Tang lang tsuud tung ,tang lang tow toe and mui fa kuen for the 7 stars for taiji mantis the lan jie......

but just one will be better the Bei shou lian Quan ......I give you more info soon
about that.....

just go there for more

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/mantisboxer/

Steeve

[seung ga faat]

6 Essential Sets

1. Tong Long Baht Bouh Kuen- The complete CL Mantis Foundation Training
2. Bung Bouh Kuen- softness hidden in the hardness
3. Dou Gong Kuen- protecting and attacking over, outside, under and around the hardness
4. Sahp Baht Sao Kuen- 18 styles with a balanced training method
5. Mui Fah Sao Kuen- Petal attacks with wonderful throwing
6. Sahp Baht Lo Han Gung- outer-inner skill
________
cummins b series engine (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Cummins_B_Series_engine)
________
Bob bondurant (http://www.ferrari-wiki.com/wiki/Bob_Bondurant)

[Steeeve]

Northern praying mantis was the name used by GM Han Hon Fan ......Does the lineage are 7 stars or a blending of 7 stars ....the mui fa ....He neve rused the name 7 stars?????????and any books all is northern mantis

[Qixing Tanglang]

In the Qixing Tanglang family of Mantis, Beng Bu Quan, Shi Ba Shou, and Duo Gang are commonly cited.

The way Yu Hai's compilation is played today, it has nothing to do with Mantis fundamentals.

The forms Lan Jie and Ba Zhou are from Meihua Tanglang.

Cheers,
N

Edit: Dont know what other people think, but Beng Bu for me is definitely the most demanding form in terms of footwork, diversity of technique, and the amount of energy required to get through it.

[TaichiMantis]

In the Qixing Tanglang family of Mantis, Beng Bu Quan, Shi Ba Shou, and Duo Gang are commonly cited.

The way Yu Hai's compilation is played today, it has nothing to do with Mantis fundamentals.

The forms Lan Jie and Ba Zhou are from Meihua Tanglang.

Cheers,
N

Edit: Dont know what other people think, but Beng Bu for me is definitely the most demanding form in terms of footwork, diversity of technique, and the amount of energy required to get through it.

Definitely my favorite mantis form. You could get a good idea of the whole system through this form alone.

...what about weapons forms?

[Steeeve]

Spychomantis

Does because LGK have created a lot of forms in the 7 stars....What do you mean WHF dont have the right to used the name 7 stars....He came from LGK...

Maybe we could call that the Hong kong 7 stars mantis???

Steeve:)

[Mantis_Reborn]

Its no secret that WHF didn't receive the entire system, thus was not given the flag to teach under the 7 Star Flag and by no means is my statement to be taken as disrespect, WHF was a great Sifu.

[MantisCool]

WHF only used the term "Northern Mantis" because he always said our 7-star mantis incorporated Meihua and GuangBan. Therefore, I think that is why he prefered to used this term.

This has nothing to do with whether he has inherited the whole system or not. I would say he is the most qualified 7-star mantis sifu in HK during his period. If he is not qualified, he would not have been sent by LGY to teach in other Chin Woos in the late 30's.

Without him or CCM, the mantis kungfu would not have spread to US in the late 60's.

rgds
khoo

[BeiTangLang]

essential sets that is;...

[holymantis]

Well here are my 6 form's that i would have,

1.Bung Bo
2.Yin Ching Dao(broadsword)
3.Un Long Quan(Staff)
4.Lan Jie
5.Pak Yuen Chet Dung
6.Ba Zhou

But i do like ALL of 7 Star Mantis form's.
these would be my core ...:D

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Seems like just about everyone lists Bung Bo, Ba Zhao and Lian Jie.

Can anyone post clips of Lian jie and Ba Zhao done well?
What is this set, how old is it. anyone care ton decscribe it?

[Royal Dragon]

Also, does anyone know of good clips of Guarding the Door Broadsword in Eight Directions?

[gunglihchuan]

This is the best Video that I have seen on the Internet of Bagua Lan Mun Dao: Guarding the Door Broadsword in Eight Directions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoEX4U_JDyk&feature=related

I believe the title that the Sifu gave was just Tai Chi Mantis.

The videos that this sifu has are very good. He covers most major hand forms. He even performs Quai Jer Yao: Quickly Picking the Essentials.

Regards,
Steve

[TaichiMantis]

This is the best Video that I have seen on the Internet of Bagua Lan Mun Dao: Guarding the Door Broadsword in Eight Directions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoEX4U_JDyk&feature=related

I believe the title that the Sifu gave was just Tai Chi Mantis.

The videos that this sifu has are very good. He covers most major hand forms. He even performs Quai Jer Yao: Quickly Picking the Essentials.

Regards,
Steve

Here is another one, not as good but he uses a 9 ring broadsword :cool:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zPpPyMw22cY

[TaichiMantis]

Seems like just about everyone lists Bung Bo, Ba Zhao and Lian Jie.

Can anyone post clips of Lian jie

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1HTLg8BcyNM

Here is an article (http://i-chuan.net/pages/Choy8.html) on Lan Jie by my kung fu uncle

[mantis108]

Hi Gunglichuan and Taichimantis,

The first clip of Lan Men Dao is from Sifu Leung Cheuk Kwan, whom I have the pleasure of training with him while I was in HK. He was appointed as one of the five assistant instructors in the Hong Kong Kwoon, when GM Chiu was gravely ill.

Personally, I like his interpretation of the Lan Men Dao the best; however, in this clip he didn't use the 9 rings saber, which should be the standard for this form. BTW, the clips are more recent production.

The other clip is from the banquet of 1975 I believe. The person who's doing the form is Yau Tim, who is one of the most senior students of GM Chiu in Hong Kong. Yau Tim introduced my mentor, Galen Fok, to GM Chiu. So all thanks to him I have the opportunity to study such a great art.

As for the Lanjie form from the CCK TCPM and the article of Sifu Choy. I believe it merits another thread altogether. :)

Anyway, thank you both for spreading the word and bring attention to CCK TCPM. Keep up the good work.

Warm regards

Robert