Has anyone ever been hit with a wing chun strike?

[Ultimatewingchun]

...is the name of a thread on the following website forum. Check this out.

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum_framed.frame&page=1

[SAAMAG]

Doesn't seem to take me to the right spot Vic....but I found the thread using the search tool. Wasn't the worst I've seen, that still belongs to Bullshido. But there seems to be some open minded individuals in there that understand it's the individual that makes the art--not the art that makes the individual.

[guy b.]

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/?go=forum_framed.posts&forum=1&thread=1267791&page=1&pc=98

[Ultimatewingchun]

Yeah, that's it, guy b.

Sorry, Van.

[Liddel]

Interesting thread... It seems there are some level headed comments for and against the art of VT. All with relevant points of view IMO.

It seems the negitives stem from a lack of consistent sparring in VT... and for anyone wanting to mix it up with other styles you should take note of the positives people have posted....

One person mentioned 'it being difficult to hold onto a guy cause he had good striking in clinch range, nice hard elbows etc'

At this point in my training (11 years now) im making striking 90% of my training to build up heavier hands and sparring more to improve my range management.

DREW

[Firehawk4]

Heres a good book on old Barenuckle boxing from 1893 that shows a punch in it that looks like the Wing Chun Sun Fist or straight punch . This book is a manuel on old style boxing it is quite different than todays boxing it has pictures in it to .
http://www.amazon.com/Science-Boxing-Articles-Training-Generalship/dp/0965295257/ref=pd_sim_b_title_4

[couch]

When I stuck to WC trapping range I got jacked up by those guys. The moment I used long range - stick and move - or clinch / ground I tore them up. And there wasn't a **** thing they could do about it. Even when they included groin strikes (wearing a cup was manditory there) and eye pokes. I was all over them on the floor.

Here's a quote that really makes sense to me. Although he mentions 'trapping range' and I feel this is a poor name for the range that works for us, I like the mentality.

I believe there is a certain range that works well for most of us WC fighters. That's why some of you guys like to add other ranges to the mix. I find that WC works well in that 3-feet of phone-booth space. It's getting to that range and sticking to it that is most important.

A purist grappler (such as the way the Gracie's took the UFC by storm) doesn't stand toe-to-toe boxing...they work their range, willing to eat a few to get there. (I do realize how the sport of MMA was then transformed into what it is today - well-rounded fighters/stand-up fighters with takedown defense/ground fighters with some stand-up defense).

[k gledhill]

A lot of focus in vt these days lacks the ko idea ...the heel/fist connection drive the heel into the ground as the fist makes contact, repeat a million times.. add random same idea in chi-sao to strike and attack with same idea ..add time and space =face off....wait to deliver or go to them...no punch = no fight walk away:D
Seung ma toi ma drills deal with just this idea of motion towards us as we angle to strike WITH FORCE bridging or not just using the timing /balance/ structure to deliver 'the good news' ...some go for slap n tickle sticky hand crap...get into a real fight and cant hurt anyone , nobody's letting them stick so they stand and get taken down...you shoot standing in front of a target all day , when the target shoots back you will respond by STANDING THERE AND SHOOTING BACK :D ?
trainas you intend to fight ..if the chi-sao isnt helping you attack someone from space/no contact to contact to space again without thinking , re think the process.

its your nose

[sanjuro_ronin]

Every system has something to offer you, anyone that has cross trained know this to be a fact.
some have more than others but all have something of value.
The issue is being able to use it well, and not only use it well against itself, as the vast majority of MA are taught, but to use it well VS other systems.
That is the crucial and more often than not, missing element in the majority of MA training.

[SAAMAG]

Good point Sanjuro, I also think that cross training allows for a more open mindset when it comes to a particular style--meaning that it's seen for what it is, nothing more, nothing less.

There's a zen saying

"If you want to see, see right at once. When you begin to think, you miss the point." -Dogo

[MartialDev]

Well obviously this is a biased survey...since dead men tell no tales. :D

[k gledhill]

the power source of the leg in VT is often overlooked and leaves the arms to do the striking alone. Alone they would be like any jab done fast with each hand ...:D
Timing and structure produce the force coupled with the 'point of impact' we train for in chi-sao. The quadriceps are the strongest muscle group in the body, engage them by driving the heel into the ground in short shuffling [3"x3"] steps to execute the 'force' behind a continuous attack / trap. If the steps are larger than 3"x3" the heel will leave the ground in a 'heel~toe' step losing the 'force' [starwars :D] behind our 'ging'short range 'everything' ;) .
Elbows in allow the engagement of this force while using each lead arm to be the man -sao/transfer point to the target, if it is stopped /interrupted the rear hand vu-sao takes it's place etc... adding removal sequences from chi-sao for this reason. Perpetuating our attack with force and structure, backed by % raising tactics .

Inch punching isnt just to show the ability its to deliver this again and again in each strike etc...while moving to, or receiving the attack AND not get hit back :D using the angles of the forearms rotating in and along certain lines , relative only to us, to keep us protected along our own vulnerability to a strike as we go in with empty minds as to what if or maybe , what will I do ? will my bong -sao defelct correctly laterally as I go forwards etc....will my arms collaps if they are struck with real incoming force as I attack in...?

Timing of the clash from space /time of a face off is critical to us ergo seung ma toi ma drills to develop the exact point we strike, balance, attack/counter etc...as a testing ground for each partner to execute back and forth , randomly in the 'here and now' of gor sao. A lot of time spent on a simple idea . The stage by stage process of dan chi etc.. is to make the arms strike and deflect alone , each in rotation holding certain lines relative to our attacking flank. Not to develop a wrisitng /sticking deflection, that produces a 1-2 fighter needing 2 hands extended always just to fight one arm ...

VT has been losing itself for fancy shmancy stuff of late, with little or no practical value beyond a sticky game of tag .

I met a student of WSL years ago and did chi-sao and thought we were similar etc... but watching him train he had one of the most powerful strikes I had ever seen in my short vt time :D His name was Ying , liked to throat grab guys in chi-sao ...when he used the dummy it was to develop this ging 'SHOCK" force to displace arms , simply to deliver the 'punch' if it hit you you were toast .