Chinese nationalism and anger [Archive]

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bodhitree

04-29-2008, 06:52 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/29/education/29student.html?pagewanted=1&hp

Kind of a pity they can't express themselves in better ways.

Did anyone read the article about the girl who tried to mediate and recieved death threats?

sanjuro_ronin

04-29-2008, 07:21 AM

SPJ

04-29-2008, 08:00 AM

1. attack on handicap jin jing on wheel chair in france.

2. CNN comments

perceived media anti "chinese" (government) and pro tibetan independence reporting.

--

let angered and frustrated chinese students vent. hopefully they dun break any laws or commit violences.

most important of all, students would go back to study

let monks or tibetan buddhism believers meditate.

let the olympic games be held peacefully and safely.

let pro tibetan independence people protest peacefully.

let torch run run safely and peacefully to reach its final destination, which is the stadium in bei jing, stay lit for 16 days and then passed on to the torch bearer from london, great britain, the next games hosting country.

let --

--

:D

bodhitree

04-30-2008, 08:50 AM

and for the Chinese who say that Tibetans are the Dali Lama's slaves:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/01/world/asia/01china.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

golden arhat

04-30-2008, 09:16 AM

SPJ

04-30-2008, 01:20 PM

each faction of people should have their voices heard.

the group of people demanding independence.

the group of people wanting higher autonomy within China including da lai la ma

the group of--

--

da lai means ocean, it was a title awarded by a mongolian emperor/yuan dynasty.

--

freedom for tibet, yes, but under who's rule, democrasy, theocrasy or--

--

:D

RAF

05-03-2008, 07:28 AM

As one of the my mainland Chinese friends said:

"The Chinese people are so stupid, really dumb!"

They should have taken their cue from their Eurocentric English brothers. Those Americans are so smart. They dealt with their native American problem so efficiently and effectively that they don't have to worry about autonomous regions, calls for independence---they even make money with Indian Reservation gambling casinos. I guess there is some benefit to wiping out a culture or two"
__________________________________________________ ________

Interesting viewpoint. LOL

shadowlin

05-03-2008, 08:12 AM

who built the railways
the infrastructure
the roads the irrigation
who increased employment
lowered the death rate
increased the hygene and lifespan of the average citezen
and increased the economy
and freed them from blanket slavery
????

thats right the chinese did

what has the dalai lama done ?

is there culture suffering ?i suppose
but that will pass in time once resistance dies out

like the article said how has tibet not been apart of china throughout history when the emperor of china gave the dalai lama that very title ???

screw free tibet, if i was a tibetan i would say the same thing

prosperity or poverty which would you prefer ?

You sound like a typical Imperial-minded elitist. You belive in "helping" free other people. What the DL has done is advocate that people everywhere free themselves from themselves. What has the imperialist mindset done to people everywhere since the Roman times and especially after Columbus? Destroy Destroy. "We destroy the old to build the new." Problem is the new is always worse off than the old for the human soul.

Facts are Tibet was not part of China after Yuan dynasty. And the people have undoubtedly said "we want better things, but we want them for ourselves" but that's not what they've gotten. No more in Tibet than in Iraq.

Do you know that the highest unemployment rates in Tibet are for Tibetans? What good does it do for "liberator" to come in and free you if you're then a second class citizen and now minority in your own country?

Don't BS yourself. China didn't liberate them, they annexed them because of strategic minerals and position dominating the Asian continent from the Himalayas and bordering so many countries. They did it because it was easy and they could.

And just because they have had development doesn't mean life has improved.

Since Truman coined the term development in his 1948 inaugural address, more ethnic people have been "developed" and become worse off than any movement since 1492 and the downfall of the Native Americas.

The point is - you are not Tibetan - so you can't say you'd prefer one over another. A road from one town to another doesn't mean as much as personal freedom, including RELIGIOUS freedom as well economic freedom, especially where you're from. A job doesn't mean anything if you can't get it because it always goes to your Chinese neighbors.

If I go to any tibetan monks speeches and see this kind of shameful activity, you guys are going to see a new kind of article: American gets in face of pro-Chinese PRC hecklers who try that PRC crap in America.

Free Tibet, Free South America, Free South Asia, and Free Iraq from Imperialism.

ps - just because the DL couldn't develop his country (being annexed and all) doesn't mean he wouldn't have, and very likely he would given his affinity for modernization. And he wouldn't have done it with the intention of raping the land and resources out from another group of tribal people.

you know why Imperialists get under my skin? They think they support freedom and democracy and they don't. What they support by words, thoughts, and actions is the continued theocracy of the economic elite. It's imperialism that has given Bankers the right to run and userize the whole world, and will give them the legal authority to stick RFID into everyone and everything.

If you don't think this has anything to do with Martial arts, you're mistaken. this is exactly what the temples were concerned with for centuries. Being second class citizens in their own country and economic freedom. It's important, don't shrug it off. If you're American and a martial artist, support your Right to Bear Arms, because imperial minded Americans, sadly, are giving up our rights every day. One day, the USA will end up just like the PRC. they already bear far too many similarities!

SPJ

05-03-2008, 05:51 PM

nationalism and patriotism are 2 different things.

ism or ideaology are just ideas,

1. nationalism would be to unite all parts to become one strong nation.

Example 1. Japan used to be runned by many generals and lords, so one day there was this great general or samurai defeated all others and united Japan as one nation.

China as one nation is very difficult to do, there are so many ethinc groups, however, that also created a dynamic mixing of culture. Han is the majority, however, han people did not rule all the time, mongols and machurian or Jin they ruled during yuan, and qing.

Example 2, there was this legend, there was a descedent of Song imperial family, yes song was defeated by jin and then mongols,

Zhu Yuan Zhang rose up with secret society and founded ming.

this song "king" was under cover and served as a minister in ming's court, too.

there was a great draught, people were hungry, the ming emperor was young and cheated by eunich Liu Jing. the emperor believed his country was fine, there was no famine.

this song hidden king had golds and a secret army, his hidden ministers reccomended to rise up and restore song. the timing was right.

This wise hidden king refused, He said people were suffering and hungry, the revolution would hurt them more.

so instead, he disarmed his army, and used the gold to buy food and solve the hunger in south of the longest river or jiang nan.

From this story, I realized, nationalism and patriotism are different.

2. patriotism means love of the land and the people living on the land.

What the song hidden king did was a patriotism. He loved the people and the land.

Song was never restored. Ming was eventually taken over by manchurian or hou jin.

my point is that a wise leader would do what ever is the best for his people.

and not whatever is best for his power or wealth.

so do you love your people like a true father caring his young.

or do you only care about your ruling power, power base not eroding or seizing power at the expense of the bloodshed of your sons and daughters.

--

A third example; during Chinese civil war from 1946 to 1949.

actually in 1947, when the communists won the north east. it was no longer the nationalist government "clearing" the communist army any more.

PLA had factory and resources of the north east, which is the best after development by Russians and Japanese.

A peace talk between the two parties would have ended the civil war sooner.

However, both sides were not interested.

We were not talking about resisting Japanese which is foreign.

We were talking about further bloodshed from brothers and sisters among Chinese.

After Xu Ban campaign, nan jing and shang hai were wide open. Xu Zhou is the guarding door of Jing (nan jing) and Fu (shang hai).

--

nationalist government retreated several times and eventually to Taipei, Taiwan.

--

for nationalism cause, China would like to unite with Taiwan and keep tibet and xin jiang close.

for patriotism cause, whatever is better for the people of Taiwan, Tibet--

--

something to think about.

--

:confused::(:D:p

t

monji112000

05-03-2008, 08:51 PM

David Jamieson

05-04-2008, 06:33 AM

although I am not pro the dalai lama, the Chinese government has committed atrocities. If the Chinese government really cared about the Tibetan people they would allow them to create a democratic government, free from religious rule.
A free Tibet isn't just about the dalai lama and the history of the lama's ruling the people... although thats what the everyone focuses on.

You are essentially saying that China should give up 25% of it's geographical territory in support of the notion of democracy for a nation that never was democratic to begin with?

Perhaps the USA should give up all the lands that belong to the indigenous peoples and recompense them for destroying their people, culture and religion?

Perhaps Canada should allow Quebec to secede and just hand that over before the language culture and roman catholicism dies out!

your statement merely supports and propogates the meme that us/uk intel ops want you to.

the amount of anti chinese propaganda that is sputtered about in north america is ridiculous and much of it is taken verbatim as true. Falun Gongers are a perfect example of organizations that spread malicious lies to further their own political agenda.

The CIA and MI6 don't want China to be powerful. The US and th UK don't want China to be powerful either, although they let their captains of industry make it just so.

anyway, the free tibet movement is not a tibetan movement. It's british and american and it is propagandist nonsense that relies only on the harshest of examples as opposed to all the other stuff that outweighs and trumps it.

Nobody likes the fact that all th info on the real tibet is getting out now. Good. Show the Lama structure for what it is. **** is what it was. A slave based society with aristocratic priests doing whatever they like. Yeah, lets' let them exist in their stone age slave driven wonder land from hippy fairy tales provided in the 1800's :rolleyes:

SPJ

05-04-2008, 06:52 AM

the success of economic development of Chinese coastal cities will gradually move westward.

and eventually reach the great far west: tibet and xin jiang.

opening of the railroad from lan zhou to lhasa on July, 2006.

tian lu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6Eg-P2oMMM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNqK2Btilwk&feature=related

---

VOA or voice of America (in Chinese)

focused talk: will communist party of China move toward democrasy within the party?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i2OJsXTvzs&feature=related

focused talk: will China need major political reform/overhaul to continue its economic development?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkR-ukZs2OU&feature=related

--

SPJ

05-04-2008, 07:02 AM

A popular song about the qing hai tibetan plateau.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Vmtvpk2zU4&feature=related

Li Na version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_Q4rfMI3h8&feature=related

tibetan language version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S35VnA98Rq4&feature=related

Tan wei wei version in las vegas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13tdyjlCnS8&feature=related

Tan wei wei in vienna, austria.

We love the plateau.

:)

SPJ

05-04-2008, 07:20 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG7wbTCYlAA&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uujwHOVa6CA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoSm_WT50Xk&feature=related

this is a railroad trip that I like to take my kids with.

if not this year, may be next year.

:)

SPJ

05-04-2008, 08:25 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i2OJsXTvzs&feature=related

this is a very good report and analysis of Chinese politics evolution.

but it is 30 min long.

--

some highlites;

1. during Mao and Deng, it was a strongman politics, laws and procedures were not important, it was like a bird cage power structure. a family meeting under the table, would decide everything. for example, one family/secret meeting with mao, it was decided to remove lin biu. one family/secret meeting with deng, it was decided to remove Zhao zi yang etc.

--

2. now under hu, hu only has one seat in the central politiburo. the other 5 were from Jiang's people or shanghai gang.

Under Hu, his political aims are to develop the central and west China, from coastal cities to the country side, from the east to the west. however, there are interest groups. gone are days of single strongman ruling all, now, it is a dynamic of interest groups.

Shanghai gang or interest groups of coastal cities, may conflict with the policy of developing the country side and the west.

Hu has a single seat, or one voice in the politiburo, so he has to gradually move toward his agenda for developing the rest of China.

3. dynamic of interest groups has to play by the rules, so laws and rules are more important, the formation of interest groups is not solid, it is a loose group, the crowds will change sides and move on. in a way, it is more democratic already.

--

in the end, let us hope, the democratic process/evolution would be the final goal/aim and not just a mean.

--

in short, chinese politics moved away from a single strong man to dynamic of interest group.

the differences are:

1. one said it all. vs policy is determined by dynamic/compromise of multi interest groups.

2. laws and constitution on the table was no good or empty, a secret meeting under the table decided it all.

vs. everything has to compromise from all groups by following certain rules, laws and constitution are important.

3. from lenin style one man has absolute power to institutionalized (play by the rules/compromise by all groups) power structure.

---

:D

monji112000

05-04-2008, 08:36 AM

You are essentially saying that China should give up 25% of it's geographical territory in support of the notion of democracy for a nation that never was democratic to begin with?

Perhaps the USA should give up all the lands that belong to the indigenous peoples and recompense them for destroying their people, culture and religion?

Perhaps Canada should allow Quebec to secede and just hand that over before the language culture and roman catholicism dies out!
.....
:rolleyes:
:D
To be honest with you YES. The area is populated by mostly Tibetan people, the area was taken RECENTLY by the Chinese Government. If enough people in the "newly" occupied area, want independence... then YES give it to them. My only stipulation would be to not allow the dailai lama to govern them again. Force a religion free government.

If you are comparing the Native American's stolen land to the stolen land by the Chinese government... its a pretty dumb argument. BUT, just to give you a hard time I will note that All Native American land is governed by the Native American people. They have their own government, and police. The said fact is that they would be better off without their corrupt government.

How can you compare something that happened over a hundred years ago to something that JUST HAPPENED ?
People are still alive that witnessed the occupation...

Did you notice I don't like the dailai lama? I know about what the lama's did, and I have talked to people who lived in Tabet and had family before china invaded Tibet.
I will not say anything negative about the man out of respect for Buddhists on the forum.

SPJ

05-05-2008, 03:23 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_NBGS9zpnA&feature=related

Tan wei wei concert in LA to promote super girl voice (american idol equivalent).

Mongolian, moslem and tibetan chinese songs.

love the songs and singing

dun care much for the costume.

--

:)

Sang Feng Fan

05-11-2008, 10:48 AM

http://www.filecabi.net/video/chinese_execute_tibetans.html

SPJ

05-11-2008, 03:34 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3j_xriqwu0&feature=related

In an interview with Taiwan's Tian Xia magazine;

Da Lai La Ma talked;

1. A political leader should have compassion, then he or she will be more truthful or honest.

2. In the beginning of the 20 th century, all political leaders resorted to force or violence to solve political issues.

In the latter part of the 20 th century, the idea of dialogue and co existence prevailed in the political thinking.

3. Unity. He urged Taiwan, China and Tibet stay together as unity or solidarity. All Han and Tibetan live or co exist peacefully together.

4. Due to cultural revolution, a lot of ideas and culture were destroyed in PRC. However, in Taiwan, 5,000 years of Chinese culture and ideas are still intact. There is no issue of Taiwanese culture vs Chinese culture.

5. He prayed for political leaders with compassion that would lead and guide the politics in east Asia in the 21st century.

A cover story of Tian Xia mag.

:)

shadowlin

05-11-2008, 10:18 PM

One day the people of China and Tibet will share one thing in common - revolution.

You can lie to the people only so long, until they figure out fire and clubs work pretty well.:D

IMO, the Tibetan PEOPLE need to free themselves externally because no one, not even His Holiness can do it.

And we shouldn't do it either. But we ought not condone China's actions by going to their Olympics.

But, realistically... our history is rife with annexation and frankly, nobody in DC would survive the hellfire from advocating not going - something that would cost the US billions in revenue and worsen our economy. Since our economy is all that keeps this country moving, I guess patriotically we have to go.

But what is right is right, and we ought not go.

Then again, I eat meat and shop at Wal-Mart, so a hypocrite speaks. Just rambling on with all my fellow hypocrites on all ends of the spectrum... LMFAO

unkokusai

05-11-2008, 11:21 PM

You can lie to the people only so long, until they figure out fire and clubs work pretty well.:D

No, they don't work so well against tanks and machine guns, idiot. That's part of the problem.

shadowlin

05-12-2008, 08:11 AM

No, they don't work so well against tanks and machine guns, idiot. That's part of the problem.

*Sigh*

user 303,437,532 that thinks the word idiot is original and creative.

this youtube generation really lacks.:rolleyes:

SPJ

05-12-2008, 11:08 AM

there is time for everything.

turn, turn, turn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DejUPN4SksU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WT6-BIav2I&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUworKXBzdE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWg3b15ITS8&feature=related

we have to look at things from both side.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LJuAmTv3i4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DH70wYWsK0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBtIS6O6prY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUFW08QxZT8&feature=related

---

:D

SPJ

05-12-2008, 11:24 AM

my point is that we have to understand about peace so much so about war.

--

:D

SPJ

05-12-2008, 12:10 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKQSlH-LLTQ&feature=related

this is one of my fave songs.

me and my brothers used to sing it all the time with a guitar in the 70's.

--

what happen?

"we all got old" I said to my brothers.

"yes indeed".

"aren't we all?"

--

:D:)

SPJ

05-15-2008, 07:17 PM

there was a uproar of protests for CNN "unfair" or "untruthful" reports.

here are 2 interesting songs made popular since then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhkujUZBARQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_4IQsAiJdw&feature=related

not to stir up a pot that is already boiling.

meaning not necessary.

--

just for your info.

:D;)

SPJ

05-15-2008, 07:22 PM

Why Chinese internet people angered?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCf7Qb8vD2E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2Bwjcwg4Nc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH_YAlEWJCQ

again just for your info.

--

;)

SPJ

05-15-2008, 07:42 PM

At the end of cctv program

the reporter concluded that we are not against the media in the west. but we are against untruthful or unfair reports.

we are not against the people in the west, but we are against "biased" or unfair views.

:D;)