Do you hit stuff?

[SifuAbel]

According to our resident sales associate for NYSD. You all who do forms don't hit anything or fight with contact.

Is that true? Do you do pad work, bag work, conditioning, sparring etc as well as form work?

This reminds me of the "Do you spar (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43672)" poll. Which was a resounding yes. But apparently its been forgotten.

[David Jamieson]

Heavy bag, thai pads, focus mitts, partners.

yes, kungfu training requires that you hit stuff.

I would not say the same for wushu. maybe that's where the disconnect is?
Many people think modern wushu is what most kungfu practitioners do.

It's an optics thing and the movie industry doesn't help one iota with the fantasy tales. I prefer a good old knock down drag it out fighter movie ...but for some reason, it's all about film and less about the martial arts! lol

[golden arhat]

what about the people who dont do forms at all?

[Shaolin Wookie]

Some schools don't because they're too small for a heavy bag and sets stuff if other people are doing forms. Luckily I go to a big school with a nice rig. Plus, I have a heavy bag, speed bag, target ball set-up that I own. Yeah, I hit stuff.

I hit people, too.

One time I kicked a dog, but it was by accident. Still, I kicked it pretty hard.

[Pork Chop]

hitting stuff is relative though...
on a hung ga forum, this was posted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a06PyAI7NLc

it's proof that tcma guys do hit stuff and pretty typical of a lot of the schools that i've visited.

i was invited to that forum a while ago by some friends to provide a sport fighter's input.
when i tried to comment on the video, i got this "what the heck are you doing here?" type response; along with "yeah, i already know what boxers and kickboxers would say about it".
Real stand-offish vibe; but admittedly my wording wasn't the most careful.
Instead of discussing the technique, discussing the method to the madness, and maybe having a good exchange of info & new ideas; it became a "this is what we do, now leave us alone" kinda thing.

i'll let guys like lkfmdc break into the specifics of what a sport fighting trainer sees when he views that clip; but I think I can pretty safely say there's at least a couple elements missing from that padwork that really hamper the transition from that into live, full-contact.

[Samurai Jack]

Who the heck is NYSD?

Why do we care what they think?

[golden arhat]

Who the heck is NYSD?

Why do we care what they think?

your assuming that we do care

[Pork Chop]

Who the heck is NYSD?

Why do we care what they think?

NYSD i suppose stands for New York San Da, lkfmdc's gym...

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Uhmm Yeaaaaahhhh!! doesn't everybody hit stuff?

I am even known to palm brick walls darn near full power to see if i can make them flex or break...they usually do one or the other. I do THAT for fun. I suspect an actually person would not want to get hit by me when i am angry.

Never mind I have a heavy bag in my living room near the front door...that does not see a single day of rest.

There is a rule in my house...don't pass the bag without hitting it. Even my daughter follows that rule.

So yeah, I hit stuff frequently.

[monji112000]

I don't like hurting people. I practice toad kung fu. I only get hit, I never hit people.

[monji112000]

NYSD i suppose stands for New York San Da, lkfmdc's gym...

actually its a New York self defense (karate). Its a new gym in soho.
everyone knows that at NYSanda you only do forms/katas. Heck just visit the gym you will see people wearing karate Gis...
;)

I could be wrong but we just had a whole group of people fight Kickboxing and MMA. I pretty sure everyone did very well. I know for a fact that one guy didn't win, but beat the crap out of the guy and was robbed of the win. honestly, if your going to talk **** about a gym, thats not the gym you want to pick. You couldn't pay me to fight allot of the guys... and even some of the Females.(ok just one). You can say what you will about Dave (lkfmdc), but he trains hard and his fighters are tough. He is very proud of his fighters (nothing wrong with that).

[冠木侍]

I would say that hitting "stuff" is a part of my training as well as forms. Focus pads, kick shields and the every constantly changing sparring/training partner.

Now, if the question were do we hit people just for fun....:p

[SifuAbel]

this isn't about whether or not dave has collected an nice selection of people that fight.

Its about him being full of **** with the opinion that nobody else does. And that if you just happen to do forms, that its all you do, and you couldn't possibly have time for anything else.

So far its 14 "up yours" votes to the one troll from monji.

[shadowlin]

this isn't about whether or not dave has collected an nice selection of people that fight.

Its about him being full of **** with the opinion that nobody else does. And that if you just happen to do forms, that its all you do, and you couldn't possibly have time for anything else.

So far its 14 "up yours" votes to the one troll from monji.

how'd that avoid censoring?

I hit the hay sometimes. In a few minutes, too.

[SifuAbel]

ancient Chinese secret(quote me to find out)

[Ben Gash]

hitting stuff is relative though...
on a hung ga forum, this was posted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a06PyAI7NLc

it's proof that tcma guys do hit stuff and pretty typical of a lot of the schools that i've visited.

i was invited to that forum a while ago by some friends to provide a sport fighter's input.
when i tried to comment on the video, i got this "what the heck are you doing here?" type response; along with "yeah, i already know what boxers and kickboxers would say about it".
Real stand-offish vibe; but admittedly my wording wasn't the most careful.
Instead of discussing the technique, discussing the method to the madness, and maybe having a good exchange of info & new ideas; it became a "this is what we do, now leave us alone" kinda thing.

i'll let guys like lkfmdc break into the specifics of what a sport fighting trainer sees when he views that clip; but I think I can pretty safely say there's at least a couple elements missing from that padwork that really hamper the transition from that into live, full-contact.

I'm a TCMA teacher (OK, I do San Shou as well, but) and I'LL say that is some of the lamest stuff I've ever seen. Why would people even bother with it? That was beyond basic, not to mention the fact that their punching form was poor and weak.

[SifuAbel]

Make another thread for your personal bias' please. while you are at it. provide your own video. I'm sure somebody out there thinks your way is lame too.

.

[Ben Gash]

Are you high on crack? That wasn't traditional, it was just bad. Why do I need to provide my own video to illustrate the obvious?

[SifuAbel]

Ok then hijack this thread and be more specific. quid pro quo

saying "its bad" is not descriptive of WHY you think its bad. A video of yourself doing better is then a must. Also for the sake of the argument show the better skills to offset the bad ones.

[Ben Gash]

You somewhat missed the point, The video was posted to imply that TCMA people are delusional about what impact training entails, and the value of what they're doing. I am pointing out that that is a very poor example, and certainly not representative of anything I've ever done at a TCMA club.
Specific? OK. What is being trained in that drill? Targeting? It's static, you may as well punch a wallbag. Power generation? Clearly not. Conditioning? It's not hard enough. Timing? Not with the static way they're doing it. Cardio? It's way too easy. So what actually is the point of that drill and what's it achieving?

[unkokusai]

Make another thread for your personal bias' please. while you are at it. provide your own video. I'm sure somebody out there thinks your way is lame too.

.



Of course no one but the fat, ugly duck-monkey is allowed to have an opinion...

[SifuAbel]

It does say "basic (stationary) focus mitts drils" on the tag. most of what you've just noted is bias. Again these are blanket opinions.
Cardio? they are moving quite well enough for some cardio work. Anybody that has throw punches at a bag for a length of time gets cardio.

targeting? if you mean the way people feed the pads into the punches then no, THAT doesn't do anything but make the person a blind robot. Perhaps moving the pad around is the next step for them. hence, "basic (stationary) focus mitts drills"

Power generation? whats so different? they are rooted one leg in front of the other. Using their hips to whip the torso into the punch. what should they be doing? deep gung bows and nothing else, that is just adding to the problem people have with CMA.

How can you measure "hard" on a video tape? Or better yet what would you have them do. be specific.

Again, show us better.

[Ben Gash]

Are your feet wet and can you see pyramids?

[unkokusai]

I am even known to palm brick walls darn near full power to see if i can make them flex or break...they usually do one or the other. I do THAT for fun. I suspect an actually person would not want to get hit by me when i am angry.



Oh brother..................... :rolleyes:

[monji112000]

this isn't about whether or not dave has collected an nice selection of people that fight.

Its about him being full of **** with the opinion that nobody else does. And that if you just happen to do forms, that its all you do, and you couldn't possibly have time for anything else.

So far its 14 "up yours" votes to the one troll from monji.
so if I have a different opinion then I'm a troll? :D

[Pork Chop]

...
Power generation? whats so different? they are rooted one leg in front of the other. Using their hips to whip the torso into the punch. what should they be doing? deep gung bows and nothing else, that is just adding to the problem people have with CMA.

How can you measure "hard" on a video tape? Or better yet what would you have them do. be specific.


I saw no hip movement whatsoever.

and if you want video of "static" pad work with decent hip movement & fighter form, all I got is this (not proud of it):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AybvwApnRc

At least suntzu's hips are moving, his shoulders are getting into the punch instead of just remaining static, he's reacting to incoming shots instead of just firing for repetition, and he's got decent power (I'm not holding the mitts static - actually providing resistance)...

[SifuAbel]

Slapping down on his fist does not increase his power, that is a lie that people need to stop telling.

ok, so this guy did three punches, a slip and kick. Ok nice but it doesn't support your arguement. if you don't to see hip movement from the other video then you must REALLY not want to see it. If anything this your guy had a wide guard and loose round punches after he broke position. And it was the same drill over and over again in the same place. So far you haven't said anything relevant.

[SifuAbel]

so if I have a different opinion then I'm a troll? :D
what opinion? you're a troll. :rolleyes:

[monji112000]

Slapping down on his fist does not increase his power, that is a lie that people need to stop telling.

ok, so this guy did three punches, a slip and kick. Ok nice but it doesn't support your arguement. if you don't to see hip movement from the other video then you must REALLY not want to see it. If anything this your guy had a wide guard and loose round punches after he broke position. And it was the same drill over and over again in the same place. So far you haven't said anything relevant.


what opinion? you're a troll. :rolleyes:
OK if I'm a troll your a jackas. Well no your a ******* anyway :D
The clip looked fine to me. He seems to get some torque..
were is your clip? doing pad work? or even fighting:rolleyes:
repetition is the best way to build muscle memory. I'm sure he also does dynamic drills that vary(like sparring).

[Laukarbo]

I just mailed the owner of the hung kuen clip about this discussion here..so at least he can take his stand (if he can be bothered)..thought it would be only fair..:cool:

[unkokusai]

were is your clip? doing pad work? or even fighting:rolleyes:

You haven't seen the vid of him tapping out to an 'ear grind' in under two minutes? Its famous!

[Pork Chop]

Slapping down on his fist does not increase his power, that is a lie that people need to stop telling.

Providing resistance to his punches and not just holding the pad there DOES increase punching power - that's why boxers do it... if that weren't the case boxers would hit birthday balloons and not heavybags.


ok, so this guy did three punches, a slip and kick. Ok nice but it doesn't support your arguement. if you don't to see hip movement from the other video then you must REALLY not want to see it.

In tcma you've got the six harmonies, hips and shoulders are one of them, a lot of the guys in the first vid have completely stationary shoulders throughout their punches; which implies no hip movement.
I'm wondering what you're seeing, actually, because aside from the vid poster not a lot of folks i know agree with you.


If anything this your guy had a wide guard and loose round punches after he broke position. And it was the same drill over and over again in the same place. So far you haven't said anything relevant.

FYI- you're the one who made the comment about the first vid being a "static" drill, so i provided a "static" drill of my own.

Actually it was 2 drills - slipping the jab and slipping the cross, each had a different response counter; i just didn't mix it up enough coz we actually hadn't done padwork with each other in 6 to 8 months. You really shoulda seen it a year prior.

By wide guard I'm assuming you mean the round kicks?
That's a torque thing (hip movement) that a lot of people do and it is intentional.

Otherwise, unlike the first vid he's relaxed throwing his punches - not too tense.
His round punches are intentionally wide because they're easier to throw and easier to land when combined with round kicks (boxing hooks tend to be much tighter).

He likes a lower guard than I feel comfortable with - but he has the head movement to pull it off.
We were watching a lot of this video at the time and I know I would change some stuff up these days:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiDgNwnLjYE
(FYI - That's Pat Militech, trainer of Matt Hughes, Tim Silvia, Jeremy Horn, and Robbier Lawler, as well as being a UFC champ himself)

Laukarbo
Sure enough. It'll be interesting if he comes.
You were there, on the other forum, I tried to have a conversation on his turf and he decided to be a bit of a git about having a discussion or accepting any criticism.
In sport fighting you can offer a critique and it's not going to come off like a personal attack.

[PM]

hello, thnx to all for their comments.

most of the stuff discussed here has been already discussed over there

http://www.hungkyun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=394&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

for anybody interested, please read it

different persons, different points of view. i know what we do, others see what they would like to see - be it good or bad, fair or not.

all the best

[Lucas]

this is kind of a rediculous question, that doesnt really deserve an answer.

do martial artists hit things and spar/fight with contact?


if they are a martial artist, then it is a requirement.

if people assume that by also have a form or two in your practice refrains you from being able to mix it up with contact. then these people are not only delusional, but most likely technically retarded.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I just mailed the owner of the hung kuen clip about this discussion here..so at least he can take his stand (if he can be bothered)..thought it would be only fair..:cool:

I know its not fair to rag on that clip, context of what they are doing is not clear.
Is it typical pad work that one sees in a boxing/MT/Kb/MMA gym?
No.
Still, one doesn't know what drill they were working on or the level of the students.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Providing resistance to his punches and not just holding the pad there DOES increase punching power - that's why boxers do it... if that weren't the case boxers would hit birthday balloons and not heavybags.

I have had more people hold the pads for me than I care to remember, some slap it down, some don't.
Trainer debate that, some slap too much, so not enough.
Its a personal preference actually.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I hit everything:
Makiwara
IP bag, hanging IP bag
Bag full of sand and rocks
Punching bag
Thai pads
Focus mitts
Wooden dummy
Trees
Rocks
Can's of baby formula
Tables
Chairs
The neighbour
His wife ( in a very different way :p )
Assorted woodland creatures
The guy the decides to mow his lawn at 8 in the morning on a Sunday.
His wife and their 20 year old nanny from Guatemala ( in a very different way :P )
The pizza guy
That schmuck that decides that traffic laws are not applicable to him
His wife ( in a very different way :P ).

etc...

[lkfmdc]

I hit everything:
The neighbour
His wife ( in a very different way :p )
Assorted woodland creatures ( same way as neighbor's wife :eek:)
etc...

TMI man, TMI

[sanjuro_ronin]

TMI man, TMI

Beaver is Beaver.
:D

[banditshaw]

I hit everything:
His wife ( in a very different way :p )


His wife and their 20 year old nanny from Guatemala ( in a very different way :P )

His wife ( in a very different way :P ).

etc...

Are you sure their names aren't Rosy?:p

[golden arhat]

You haven't seen the vid of him tapping out to an 'ear grind' in under two minutes? Its famous!

show me that bro ???

[unkokusai]

show me that bro ???


Its in here:


http://www.bullshido.org/Rudy_Abel

[1bad65]

Cardio? they are moving quite well enough for some cardio work. Anybody that has throw punches at a bag for a length of time gets cardio.

BWWWAAAHHHHH!!!!!

Because we all know you are an expert on cardio!!! :D

[WinterPalm]

Beaver is Beaver.
:D

C'mon guy, that's our national animal...show some respect.:mad:





















:D

[David Jamieson]

Its in here:


http://www.bullshido.org/Rudy_Abel

omg. what a pack of tools dedicating a site to ***** about Rudy.

that is hilarious!! not to mention definitive of the nerdy toolness that is that site. hahaha.

[monji112000]

You haven't seen the vid of him tapping out to an 'ear grind' in under two minutes? Its famous!

yes maybe my sarcasm is getting bad.. but thats what the :rolleyes: was for.
Hey I give him respect for stepping up when he ran his mouth...
doesn't mean that he isn't a jackas

[Pork Chop]

I have had more people hold the pads for me than I care to remember, some slap it down, some don't.
Trainer debate that, some slap too much, so not enough.
Its a personal preference actually.

Yah there is a general guideline that you don't want to slap too much - you want to let the punches come to you - and I might've been slapping too much in my pad video.
On the other hand, you DO want to provide some resistance and my tastes for resistance are a bit higher than what i saw in that vid. Just my opinion.

my opinion of the padwork on the vid definitely got more negative once i realized the owner of the vid didn't want to discuss whys & hows and refused to listen any advice.

[Laukarbo]

Is it typical pad work that one sees in a boxing/MT/Kb/MMA gym?
No.


i agree on that !
in addition if it would look like typical mt,kb or mma u d probably read stuff like "hey,u are not tma" I think they know what they doing..in the clip however it doesnt show the purpose...as often in so many clips

peace:)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yah there is a general guideline that you don't want to slap too much - you want to let the punches come to you - and I might've been slapping too much in my pad video.
On the other hand, you DO want to provide some resistance and my tastes for resistance are a bit higher than what i saw in that vid. Just my opinion.

my opinion of the padwork on the vid definitely got more negative once i realized the owner of the vid didn't want to discuss whys & hows and refused to listen any advice.

You must put some resistence behind the pad.
Some guys just go slap happy, of course that has alot to do with the guy hitting the pads too, if he hits hard, slaps won't be happening.
It also depends on why they are doing the pads.
Some do pad work to work on moving combos, some to develop broken rythm, so to work on targeting and some to work on cardio, ect. etc.

[sanjuro_ronin]

i agree on that !
in addition if it would look like typical mt,kb or mma u d probably read stuff like "hey,u are not tma" I think they know what they doing..in the clip however it doesnt show the purpose...as often in so many clips

peace:)

Context, as they say, is everything.

[SifuAbel]

So far. No matter how some here try to diminish it. it seems we have a big majority that report doing exactly the opposite of what Ross proclaims.

Does that mean its a universal condition? No. What it does mean is that there are a lot more people using their art with contact training that some would lend you to believe.

So up yours, dave.

we know , we know, "my fighers" yadda yadda yadda.

we know.

"those who can't , teach.........."

[1bad65]

So up yours, dave.

Do I sense yet ANOTHER e-challenge coming? :rolleyes:

[MasterKiller]

So far. No matter how some here try to diminish it. it seems we have a big majority that report doing exactly the opposite of what Ross proclaims.

Does that mean its a universal condition? No. What it does mean is that there are a lot more people using their art with contact training that some would lend you to believe.

So up yours, dave.

we know , we know, "my fighers" yadda yadda yadda.

we know.

Many of the people claiming to do it are probably doing it as ineffectively as the Hung Gar school shown in that clip, which doesn't really prove anything.

"those who can't , teach.........." Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it, some might say.

[SifuAbel]

Many of the people claiming to do it are probably doing it as ineffectively as the Hung Gar school shown in that clip, which doesn't really prove anything.
.


Oh how superior of you. :rolleyes: Of course you don't include yourself in that number.

There ya go folks, MK here thinks most of you are full of it.

[SifuAbel]

.
Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it, some might say.

take your own advice.

[1bad65]

Better to be thought of as someone who can't fight than to show up at a stupid e-challenge and prove it, some might say.

Fixed that for ya.

[SifuAbel]

take your own advice.

[1bad65]

Does this mean you will be fighting me on May 17th? :D

Are you in Austin now? If not, what's your excuse now?

[1bad65]

take your own advice.

You should have. Your failure to do so cost you a perfectly good ear. :D

[SifuAbel]

Interesting, this all of what to do with you?

[1bad65]

Interesting, this all of what to do with you?

Once again, you duck questions asked of you.

It's gonna be soooo fun putting the May 17th failed e-challenge up on your Wiki. :D

[SifuAbel]

If it coincides. Mind you, if I do indeed have to make a special trip just for you , I'm going knock every tooth out of your mouth.

Now would you mind not hijacking YET ANOTHER THREAD.

[1bad65]

If it coincides. Mind you, if I do indeed have to make a special trip just for you , I'm going knock every tooth out of your mouth.

So I take it you are not in Austin then? What happened with this top-secret movie you mentioned? :rolleyes:

Good luck. We all know you can't fight for sh1t, and you can't even do that for one minute without gassing out.

[1bad65]

Now would you mind not hijacking YET ANOTHER THREAD.


Would you mind not continuing to issue empty e-challenge threats over and over?

[SifuAbel]

Ok Mr. stalker. :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

Ok Mr. stalker. :rolleyes:

Whatever Mr. Empty Threats

[SifuAbel]

Speaking of empty threats , hows Boyd doing?

[1bad65]

Speaking of empty threats , hows Boyd doing?

I assume he's waiting on you to provide a GYM address.

That's all documented on your Wiki article. You should read it: http://www.bullshido.org/Rudy_Abel

[1bad65]

Speaking of the Wiki article, http://www.bullshido.org/Rudy_Abel, have you sued Bullshido yet? You've threatened that twice now....:rolleyes:

[MasterKiller]

Oh how superior of you. :rolleyes: Of course you don't include yourself in that number.

There ya go folks, MK here thinks most of you are full of it.

I didn't vote, so of course I didn't include myself.

But, I'll take the advice of Pork Chop and Ross over any TMA instructor regarding efficient use of pad work.

[unkokusai]

If it coincides.


There ya go, start lining up those excuses early... :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

There ya go, start lining up those excuses early... :rolleyes:

It looks like I predicted this one:


Although I have a feeling his supposed movie will wrap up before the 17th, or wont start shooting until after the 17th, or they will be shooting every minute of the 17th, or....... :rolleyes:

[golden arhat]

abel is such a fukin moron

[Pork Chop]

I didn't vote, so of course I didn't include myself.

But, I'll take the advice of Pork Chop and Ross over any TMA instructor regarding efficient use of pad work.

I'm honored!

[Pork Chop]

.. if he hits hard, slaps won't be happening...

I agree with you on everything but that...
If a guy is blowing my elbow out with super powerful punches, i'll start slapping it to protect my joints.
I'm not saying I'll reach for it, to the contrary I'll retract the pad and pop it as it's about to hit the target, but i'll definitely put some velocity/momentum on it to protect my joints.

[1bad65]

I agree with you on everything but that...
If a guy is blowing my elbow out with super powerful punches, i'll start slapping it to protect my joints.
I'm not saying I'll reach for it, to the contrary I'll retract the pad and pop it as it's about to hit the target, but i'll definitely put some velocity/momentum on it to protect my joints.

I hold focus mitts very much like you do. I push back a split second before impact to give it some resistance. That's how my instructor taught us to hold mitts. We are also taught to push back when holding Thai pads as well.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I agree with you on everything but that...
If a guy is blowing my elbow out with super powerful punches, i'll start slapping it to protect my joints.
I'm not saying I'll reach for it, to the contrary I'll retract the pad and pop it as it's about to hit the target, but i'll definitely put some velocity/momentum on it to protect my joints.

yeah, I agree on that too.

[WinterPalm]

It's good to hit the punches as they come in. Makes you have to hit harder to try and go through the target.

That said, I don't hit anything.


It hits all by itself.:cool:

[golden arhat]

I hold focus mitts very much like you do. I push back a split second before impact to give it some resistance. That's how my instructor taught us to hold mitts. We are also taught to push back when holding Thai pads as well.

same here

thats how i was taught.

but no abel knows better

[1bad65]

but no abel knows better

Cause we all saw his haymaker-only standup.

[golden arhat]

Cause we all saw his haymaker-only standup.

lol that video was actually laughable



tho your performance wasnt too good either

i hope youve improved for next time(assumin there is one)

hahaha ;):D

[1bad65]

i hope youve improved for next time(assumin there is one)

I was not the one who fought SifuExcuses. That was Anthony.

SifuExcuses is coming for me sometime, whenever, maybe, if, could......:rolleyes:

My standup is light years ahead of SifuExcuses, even though my ground game is my strength.

[golden arhat]

I was not the one who fought SifuExcuses. That was Anthony.

SifuExcuses is coming for me sometime, whenever, maybe, if, could......:rolleyes:

My standup is light years ahead of SifuExcuses, even though my ground game is my strength.

oh my mistake

got confused there fore a second


was still funny to watch what forms have done to improve is fighting ability XD

[SifuAbel]

well, Mr. retarded version of Dieter, I wish I was able to do form work for my bout. I would have done much better.

Lets see your pathetic ass get in a ring and not look like a male prostitute in front of "the crazyhorse".

[golden arhat]

well, Mr. retarded version of Dieter, I wish I was able to do form work for my bout. I would have done much better.

Lets see your pathetic ass get in a ring and not look like a male prostitute in front of "the crazyhorse".

ummm i've posted a vid of me fighting before
and tho my wrestling was slightly terrible

my performance was much better than yours.

[1bad65]

ummm i've posted a vid of me fighting before
and tho my wrestling was slightly terrible

my performance was much better than yours.

You're just begging to be e-challenged aren't you? ;)

He has a full plate for 2008, but he might be able to squeeze you in for 2009.

[1bad65]

ummm i've posted a vid of me fighting before

my performance was much better than yours.

I guess you didn't tap out to an Ear Grind. :D

[golden arhat]

I guess you didn't tap out to an Ear Grind. :D

no unlike some people i actually won :D

[1bad65]

no unlike some people i actually won :D

So you won using the Ear Grind! :D

[golden arhat]

So you won using the Ear Grind! :D

haha well it just ended up with the guy on top of me and then the camera timed out


but i knocked him about a bit lol