The problems with classics

[SPJ]

For each style, there are songs, and poems.

usually we call them the classics.

http://northpine.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?p=76

I translated some for Ba Ji.

yes, there are plenty more out there.

classics are just words for people that are starting in the style.

only and only after some practicing, would we start to understand them.

--

:D

[SPJ]

what are the classics for your style?

like them, hate them or don't care.

usually, they are notes from previous practitioners.

do you also take notes when you practice?

do you summarize them like a song or poems?

the first question would be yes for most people.

the second question would be for people with literary or poetic minds?

:D

[Samurai Jack]

SPJ, maybe the Baji classics are for people "just starting out", although I doubt it.

The Hsing-i classics are full of enough depth that I'm still finding things to work on in them ever since I got my first copy of Yeuh Fei's Ten Essential Essays from my first teacher. Since then I got the Yang's english translation, and cross referencing the two still pulls up good material.

Maybe if you're a native Chinese speaker, the meaning of certain passages are easier to understand, but since you are suppossed to actually practice with them, and you shouldn't ever stop practicing if mastery is your goal, I don't see how you could say they are for people "just starting out."

And I think it's safe to say I love them. According to legend, without them, we wouldn't even have Hsing-i today.

[SPJ]

oops.

I meant they are only "words" for people starting.

words then taking on meanings only after some practicing.

:D;)

[Samurai Jack]

Ah, well in that case, then I think we're in agreement.

:)

[SPJ]

http://www.tudou.com/playlist/playindex.do?lid=475297&iid=4086411

Wu lian zhi explained some classics with examples.

6 big opening:

ding bao ti dan kua chan,

etc.

I have the vcd.

:)

[SPJ]

Just translated an article;

http://northpine.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=52

fighting methods for 3 levels of the body.

1. Upper level;

Shang Da Yun Luo Dian Ti.

2. Mid level;

Zhong Da Ai Bang Ji Kao

3. Low level:

Xia Da Chi Gen Mai Gen.

This is a song for Ba Ji technical fighting methods and tactics and strategy.

Have fun.


:)

[MightyB]

Is that they actually don't say anything... On Purpose!

They were never meant for "literal" translation. Like everything in CMA- they were purposefully cryptic... I'll give you an example from mantis (excuse my phonetic spelling of Cantonese words) Tai Sa na Ding -- Tai Mountain Crashes - Means nothing in literal translation- If you have the right teacher- he'll show you the move it represents.

Personally I think people obsess too much about this stuff. they translate page after page of manuscripts- and it does nothing for their martial ability 'cuz the passages mean nothing without proper instruction.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Modern systems have that too:

Close cover before striking match
Tie shoe laces
Don't bend over to pick up soap in prison shower.

[David Jamieson]

Is that they actually don't say anything... On Purpose!

They were never meant for "literal" translation. Like everything in CMA- they were purposefully cryptic... I'll give you an example from mantis (excuse my phonetic spelling of Cantonese words) Tai Sa na Ding -- Tai Mountain Crashes - Means nothing in literal translation- If you have the right teacher- he'll show you the move it represents.

Personally I think people obsess too much about this stuff. they translate page after page of manuscripts- and it does nothing for their martial ability 'cuz the passages mean nothing without proper instruction.


You mean it's kinda like a fat chick renting a hip hop abs video thinking that merely by watching the video she'll be a slim and slender princess before going out to pound margaritas with her pals after a hard day of cubicle dwelling? lol

yes, there is a certain degree of people who think they can learn by osmosis.

words are often the tangle in martial arts. It is tactile, poetry means nothing when weighed against a broken jaw. :)

[MightyB]

You mean it's kinda like a fat chick renting a hip hop abs video thinking that merely by watching the video she'll be a slim and slender princess before going out to pound margaritas with her pals after a hard day of cubicle dwelling? lol

yes, there is a certain degree of people who think they can learn by osmosis.

words are often the tangle in martial arts. It is tactile, poetry means nothing when weighed against a broken jaw. :)

You Sir are a Poet and a Scholar! Your prose has described my thoughts better than I could think them.

[SPJ]

In the beginning, the words are very annoying and confusing,

for example;

there are 24 hand methods in Ba Ji.

some how all the hand methods are summarized in 24 characters.

I did not believe that.

After some practice, then I went back to 24 words.

OMG, every hand method is indeed in the 24 categories.

every since then, I always treat the classics like words in a Bible or sutra.

[SPJ]

http://www.wulinzhi.com/chinese-traditional-martial-arts/baji-quan/2726#more-2726

here is a link to the 24 words with pictures.

Song of 24 hand methods.

Pu (cover) Pa (climb) Qi (raise) An (push downward); Yun (cloud) Dai (guide) Diao (hook) Kou (snatch); Lan (intercept) Guan (swing) Ti (elevate) Huan (circle)

Cha (plant) Liao (upward) Fen (separate) Peng (upholding); Die (stagger) Zhan (extend) Tiao (upward) Hua (slide); Chi (pierce) Shan (fan) Yao (row) Chuan (penetrate)

http://northpine.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=60

I translated them briefly.

:)

[shadowlin]

what are the classics for your style?

like them, hate them or don't care.

usually, they are notes from previous practitioners.

do you also take notes when you practice?

do you summarize them like a song or poems?

the first question would be yes for most people.

the second question would be for people with literary or poetic minds?

:D


I love classics, a link to a distant martial artist, across time and space.
I take more mental notes than anything because I pull out individual moves that strike my fancy and then just do it over and over and over and over until the move makes sense viscerally. I usually do them without the notes, I must confess, though it's my goal to revisit the classic poetry when I have gotten deeper into the language.
summarize the notes? they are the summary.


The classics are really for Masters, and that's not me. On the path, but right now the language is beyond me. I need more immersion and exposure.