Does Bak Mei have Lama influence?

[diego]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9_XXZSOqg0k&feature=related

So I notice it looks similar to how CLF structures their forms just the whole short combo line drill format...but I notice they don't have the swings...Do they?:)

[mokkori]

Thats Lau Keung, hes the vice-president of the Guangzhou Bak Mei Association. My sifu was one of his top students, though I dont learn Bak Mei. I doubt that Bak Mei has any relation to Lama or CLF, just a southern form structure. Its common to see a cross pattern like that in most any southern style... come to think of it northern styles dont have much direction changes do they, just back and forth.

No, Bak Mei doesnt have any long swings like CLF, but I guess you could find alot of short hand versions of similar techniques. Like CLF's gwa chui to Bak Mei's bui gim... but thats a relation not worth pursuing me thinks.

[lkfmdc]

I doubt that Bak Mei has any relation to Lama or CLF,



This isn't posted to be offensive, but I sort of feel after years of being in the community that NO ART lives in a vaccuum. Particularly southern styles, all seem to be a giant dysfunctional family, ie like, love or hate eachother, they all know eachother and the amount of cross training is much more than I think the average student would imagine

When you start digging, you find out in lineages that some guy was related to another guy, studied with the same teachers at some point, etc etc etc

[nospam]

..recent history - post 1900 - saw a lot of cross-training. And as Asian MAs spread beyond traditional borders, cross training increased exponentially. I think there was a period where cross-training growth plateaued (50s-70s) and independent styling became more predominant until the 80s. Then kick-boxing started to catch on and cross-training started to once again catch hold. Now..MMAs epitomizes Today's MA society.

When you read bio's of TCMA Masters from the 20s, 30s and 40s, they learned many styles and from many teachers. Interestingly, where MMAs is a hybrid of many styles and is based on same, TCMAs seems to be slamming the doors shut during this most recent Renaissance in the MA world. Sort of like saying we've been here for a very long time and have seen many shooting stars in the sky fly by, trailed by countless skin-headed/tattooed hardcore killas. Word.

We live in a different World and freedom/access to information is as readily available as one makes oneself available to it. I am sure there are many Youtube students out there. In another 12 years that will be referred to as Yu Tu Gar.

TCMAists will eventually open the shutters, blink once again at the bright lights and settle back in to mabu. Sparklers are cool and flashy, but the candle burns slow and lasts longer.

Where was I going with this...oh yes..no matter what you do..it is in the doing that matters.

nospam
:cool:

[sanjuro_ronin]

..recent history - post 1900 - saw a lot of cross-training. And as Asian MAs spread beyond traditional borders, cross training increased exponentially. I think there was a period where cross-training growth plateaued (50s-70s) and independent styling became more predominant until the 80s. Then kick-boxing started to catch on and cross-training started to once again catch hold. Now..MMAs epitomizes Today's MA society.

When you read bio's of TCMA Masters from the 20s, 30s and 40s, they learned many styles and from many teachers. Interestingly, where MMAs is a hybrid of many styles and is based on same, TCMAs seems to be slamming the doors shut during this most recent Renaissance in the MA world. Sort of like saying we've been here for a very long time and have seen many shooting stars in the sky fly by, trailed by countless skin-headed/tattooed hardcore killas. Word.

We live in a different World and freedom/access to information is as readily available as one makes oneself available to it. I am sure there are many Youtube students out there. In another 12 years that will be referred to as Yu Tu Gar.

TCMAists will eventually open the shutters, blink once again at the bright lights and settle back in to mabu. Sparklers are cool and flashy, but the candle burns slow and lasts longer.

Where was I going with this...oh yes..no matter what you do..it is in the doing that matters.

nospam
:cool:

Much truth in this post.
Even before the 20th century, actually, every MA is a "creation" of at least 2 other MA, if not more.

[ittokaos]

Well, I can only speak from my own experience with the style so I guess I wont be able to provide a really good answer.

Yes, it seems so. From what I understand, lama and shaolin have been trading fighting "secrets" with each other all along. It would stand to reason that Bak Mei would have trained with the Lama at one point.

The legend(one of) states that Bak Mei worked on his style for some time before it was actually taught. Who knows what he would have learned before he started to teach. That coupled with the fact that in our lineage's Sup Jee, we do something similar to a chun choi(in lama). It's not exact but the power issuing is the same. So, the influence is there. I dont know how long ago this influence occured but it stands to reason that since Bak Mei has been around for several hundreds of years, that it was influenced at one time by many different styles.

As for it not having long armed techniques. That is definately not the case. BM is a style that has both long and short techniques. It may not be as long as some but it is not all short arm strikes.

That's my 2 cents.

Also, it is said that many Lama style teachers were also very well versed in BM. Not sure if it's true tho.

--peace

[diego]

Well, I can only speak from my own experience with the style so I guess I wont be able to provide a really good answer.

Yes, it seems so. From what I understand, lama and shaolin have been trading fighting "secrets" with each other all along. It would stand to reason that Bak Mei would have trained with the Lama at one point.

The legend(one of) states that Bak Mei worked on his style for some time before it was actually taught. Who knows what he would have learned before he started to teach. That coupled with the fact that in our lineage's Sup Jee, we do something similar to a chun choi(in lama). It's not exact but the power issuing is the same. So, the influence is there. I dont know how long ago this influence occured but it stands to reason that since Bak Mei has been around for several hundreds of years, that it was influenced at one time by many different styles.

As for it not having long armed techniques. That is definately not the case. BM is a style that has both long and short techniques. It may not be as long as some but it is not all short arm strikes.

That's my 2 cents.

Also, it is said that many Lama style teachers were also very well versed in BM. Not sure if it's true tho.

--peace
Interesting, thank you for the reply:) The little Bak Mei video I have seen has all been short bridge, I'm really interested in the long swing punches of southern gung fu and how all of the different styles have variations in the execution of them, I wonder does the long power come out more when doing weapon work in BM... like Wing Chun uses the Dragon Pole to develop long strength?.

Cheers

[diego]

The legend(one of) states that Bak Mei worked on his style for some time before it was actually taught. Who knows what he would have learned before he started to teach. That coupled with the fact that in our lineage's Sup Jee, we do something similar to a chun choi(in lama).

Any Youtube video of this?.:D

[Syn7]

if theres no video on youtube, it never happened.


i think, at this point in time, it would be very difficult to distinguish between coincidences by two or more cats using common sense to move foreward thus arriving at similar conclusions and methods and actual direct influences from one art to another. especially in the south where styles came and went like the weather. you could drive yourself nutts trying to figure out whats what. even written and oral history are suspect.

a few things we know, or think we know at any rate. but there's a ton we'll never know forsure. at best we'll have some educated guesses and a sh1tload of circumstantial evidence.

but why not. its not hard to believe that somewhere along the lines a bak mei and lama pai practicioner put their heads together. if only for a moment.

plus you can learn alot about fighting by actually fighting people. so if a bak mei cat clashed with a lama cat, they would both walk away with something from the other. assuming they were worth their salt, that is.

[Yum Cha]

no
................

[diego]

Yum Cha what about Lung Ying and Lama?. lol

[EternalSpring]

..recent history - post 1900 - saw a lot of cross-training. And as Asian MAs spread beyond traditional borders, cross training increased exponentially. I think there was a period where cross-training growth plateaued (50s-70s) and independent styling became more predominant until the 80s. Then kick-boxing started to catch on and cross-training started to once again catch hold. Now..MMAs epitomizes Today's MA society.

When you read bio's of TCMA Masters from the 20s, 30s and 40s, they learned many styles and from many teachers. Interestingly, where MMAs is a hybrid of many styles and is based on same, TCMAs seems to be slamming the doors shut during this most recent Renaissance in the MA world. Sort of like saying we've been here for a very long time and have seen many shooting stars in the sky fly by, trailed by countless skin-headed/tattooed hardcore killas. Word.

We live in a different World and freedom/access to information is as readily available as one makes oneself available to it. I am sure there are many Youtube students out there. In another 12 years that will be referred to as Yu Tu Gar.

TCMAists will eventually open the shutters, blink once again at the bright lights and settle back in to mabu. Sparklers are cool and flashy, but the candle burns slow and lasts longer.

Where was I going with this...oh yes..no matter what you do..it is in the doing that matters.

nospam
:cool:


awesome post. and LOL @ "Yu Tu Gar" :D