creatine??

[golden arhat]

i heard somewhere that all it does is fill your muscles with water and isnt very good for you

but some of the people at my gym use it and have had great results

whats the general consensus on it??
pro's cons ??

any better alternatives??


any info appreciated

[David Jamieson]

im not for it.

it is said to aid in recovery, but so does proper diet and sleep.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The simple version is that creatine helps load your muscles with water and that helps in recovery and to stave off the build up of lactic acid, which allows you to workout more.
No know side effects other than some intestinal issues and bathroom breaks.
Of course, like most supplements, its the quaility that is the issue.
T-Nation has many articles about it.
So does almost every other site on body building or strength training.

[bodhitree]

Creatine (usually creatine monohydrate) is used by the body as creatine phosphate, a pecursor to ATP (adenotriphosphate), which is essential in anaerobic activities.

Creatine DOES increase the amount of water held by muscles, but that is not all it does.

There have been rumors (all rumors) that creatine is somehow bad for the kidneys, but there is no scientific evidence to back that up. Most studies reveal other benefits of creatine (one I remember claimed increased concentration).



Creatine is a good supplement for anybody looking to increase power, or mass.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Creatine (usually creatine monohydrate) is used by the body as creatine phosphate, a pecursor to ATP (adenotriphosphate), which is essential in anaerobic activities.

Creatine DOES increase the amount of water held by muscles, but that is not all it does.

There have been rumors (all rumors) that creatine is somehow bad for the kidneys, but there is no scientific evidence to back that up. Most studies reveal other benefits of creatine (one I remember claimed increased concentration).



Creatine is a good supplement for anybody looking to increase power, or mass.

I think the kidney thing was when people were doing "loading" cycles and drink gallons of water.
Stuff that no one really advocates now.

[golden arhat]

so should it be used in conjunction with other supplements ?as opposed to using it by itself

does it build muscle by itself or just allow you to make better use of whatever protein your taking already??

[David Jamieson]

only you build muscle through ripping the tissues and letting them heal.

no drug in and of itself does anything of the sort such as building muscle.

you simply have to work your ass off to get bigger and stronger.

these drugs only help you to recover quickly so you can continue to gain mass through the rip and rest method.

[bodhitree]

only you build muscle through ripping the tissues and letting them heal.

Umm.. actually rest and nutrition play an equal part in this



no drug in and of itself does anything of the sort such as building muscle.

you simply have to work your ass off to get bigger and stronger.

and rest your ass off and eat right


these drugs
Supplements



only help you to recover quickly so you can continue to gain mass through the rip and rest method

Creatine does help recovery, but it also supplies ATP to muscles for more power output and helps add lean mass by increasing the amount of water in muscle cells.



Why do you always insist on acting like you know something when you really don't? (Rhetorical question)

[bodhitree]

so should it be used in conjunction with other supplements ?as opposed to using it by itself

does it build muscle by itself or just allow you to make better use of whatever protein your taking already??


Creating can be used with or without other supplements, the one essential is you will need to drink more water (throughout the day, not necessarily during your workout).

I prefer to use creating pre-workout. After mixing the creatine consume it rapidly (as it is only creatine for about 30 seconds, after which it turns into creatinine which will be removed from the body as waste). Try getting creatine with carbs already added, or mix it with juice, as carbs help the absorbtion process.

It will not build muscle all by itself, but with the other elements of a good program (training, rest, nutrition) it will certainly help.

[bodhitree]

linkey linkey to a thread started by some super awesome guy with supplement info in it..... (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43123&highlight=supplements)

[David Jamieson]

bodhitree.

by definition, supplements are drugs.

they are an artificial way to make things occur as well.

and yes, rest is huge, i believe i indicated that but... In fact, your muscle only grows, like bone only grows IE: when you're sleeping. Most stuff that is about longer term body change occurs while sleeping or in a rest state.

I'm all for recovery drinks taht replace burnt glycogens that you stole from your liver during your wrokout and even for extra protein bars and such, but actual harder drugs than tomato or broccoli extracts and so on are simply not for me.
i'm just a bit of a nature boy that way.

drugs = your **** is fake. :D

[bodhitree]

bodhitree.

by definition, supplements are drugs.

they are an artificial way to make things occur as well.

and yes, rest is huge, i believe i indicated that but... In fact, your muscle only grows, like bone only grows IE: when you're sleeping. Most stuff that is about longer term body change occurs while sleeping or in a rest state.

I'm all for recovery drinks taht replace burnt glycogens that you stole from your liver during your wrokout and even for extra protein bars and such, but actual harder drugs than tomato or broccoli extracts and so on are simply not for me.
i'm just a bit of a nature boy that way.

drugs = your **** is fake. :D

Sorry for being so argumentative, bad day at work:mad:

I see your point, but remember, every time you eat meat creatine is in there:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sorry for being so argumentative, bad day at work:mad:

I see your point, but remember, every time you eat meat creatine is in there:D

I need to remind a few athletic women I know of that very fact :D

[WinterPalm]

Taken in small doses, say a quarter of what bodybuilders use, is actually good for recovery from atheletic pursuits and has nothing to do with water storage and bloating.
However, I've never experimented with it...I have taken a recovery drink, that tasted like laundry detergent, and it had creatine in it. My recovery time went up.
However, that was expensive and why bother?
Over time, through proper nutrition and rest, your body adapts so that when new stress is put on the system, it responds better than before and you don't get too sore.

The best thing to do is to train smarter, eat way more vegetables, get more rest, and chill out.:)

[bodhitree]

If you want to add lean mass or increase speed/power output, there is no better supplement.

[Samurai Jack]

I used to be the strongest supporter of creatine use on this board, but I've stopped using it. The first year or so I was on it, my strength skyrocketed and my lean bodyweight went up.

Then the product I was using went out of business. I thought, "No big deal, creatine is creatine, right?"

After the fourth product I tried yielded no results and a persistent case of diarrhea, I gave up. Problem is that QUALITY creatine is hard to find, and the good stuff (i.e. the stuff that works) is EXPENSIVE.

What do you use bodhitree? What's it cost you? Ever had hydration problems with long judo sessions?

[Shaolin Wookie]

so should it be used in conjunction with other supplements ?as opposed to using it by itself

does it build muscle by itself or just allow you to make better use of whatever protein your taking already??

It's helped me put on the right kind of mass and build up muscle. I'm not into the massive loading bodybuilder dudes use it as, but it's a nice supplement and doesn't require anything else to be effective used in conjunction with it. But you'll find you get better results if you use different kinds, just as Sanjuro said. But I don't agree that the best stuff is the most expensive. I use a brand (can't think of it's name off the top of my head) but you can get it at GNC, and it's not expensive. Then again, Gold. Arh., you're a Brit, so you probably don't have GNC now that I think of it.

Also, you'll want to change your workout routine based on your results or in order to get results. It's not like.....I take creatine.....HULKA SHMASH! and then you turn into Lou Ferigno. It just helps. Some more than others. I get 10X better results than my bro, and he does textbook routines. I do some weird ****, and get bigger no prob.

[bodhitree]

I used to be the strongest supporter of creatine use on this board, but I've stopped using it. The first year or so I was on it, my strength skyrocketed and my lean bodyweight went up.

Then the product I was using went out of business. I thought, "No big deal, creatine is creatine, right?"

After the fourth product I tried yielded no results and a persistent case of diarrhea, I gave up. Problem is that QUALITY creatine is hard to find, and the good stuff (i.e. the stuff that works) is EXPENSIVE.

What do you use bodhitree? What's it cost you? Ever had hydration problems with long judo sessions?


I use body fortress brand, found at target, very very cheap and the results are the usual. I also like GNC's creadrive. I generally prefer a product that is mixed with carbs, rather than creatine alone.

I've never experienced any negative effects.....

Guess I've been lucky

[Samurai Jack]

Well, I may try one of those products. Thanks for the tip.

;)

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

everytime ive used creatine for consistantly (5-10grams per day) my kidneys started to hurt. the first time around i thought it was from being thrown in jiujitsu, but the pain didnt stop until i laid off the creatine for a few days. tested it twice more to be sure and for some reason it doesn't agree with me. i remember reading an article that said creatine can cause kidney stones in some people, but its very rare. maybe im just lucky.

[golden arhat]

i train roughly three times a week at my gym and some at home aswell


if i dont train enough say one week will it just turn in to fat etc

what will happen assuming i take some and then for some unforseen reason i have to stop training ??

[MSphinx]

I use body fortress brand, found at target, very very cheap and the results are the usual. I also like GNC's creadrive. I generally prefer a product that is mixed with carbs, rather than creatine alone.

I've never experienced any negative effects.....

Guess I've been lucky

I use creatine from Body Fortress as well; it's pretty good. For the OP, you can get them at Holland & Barrett for a good price.

[golden arhat]

I use creatine from Body Fortress as well; it's pretty good. For the OP, you can get them at Holland & Barrett for a good price.

yeah theres a holland and barret near me i'l give em a try. thanx

[Vash]

I may be a T-Mag *****, but I use their creatine. 13 bucks lasts me 100 days (5 grams/day). I mix my creatine with my workout drink - a protein/sugar concoction (I, once again, like Biotest Surge.)

I have to drink something with protein when I work out, or I get so hungry I come close to passing out. In high school, I tried eating granola bars, drinking gatorade, etc, but nothing helped. Few years ago, got around to trying that Surge stuff out, haven't been hungry in a workout since.

Creatine helps me tremendously. I recover much more quickly after resistance training, and have more energy when going either for more reps with a given weight, or when I'm trying to put more iron in the air.

[Samurai Jack]

i train roughly three times a week at my gym and some at home aswell


if i dont train enough say one week will it just turn in to fat etc

what will happen assuming i take some and then for some unforseen reason i have to stop training ??

It won't make you fat, and nothing bad will happen if you stop. It's a micro nutrient. Once it's stored, you either use it or exrete it.

[Shaolin Wookie]

everytime ive used creatine for consistantly (5-10grams per day) my kidneys started to hurt. the first time around i thought it was from being thrown in jiujitsu, but the pain didnt stop until i laid off the creatine for a few days. tested it twice more to be sure and for some reason it doesn't agree with me. i remember reading an article that said creatine can cause kidney stones in some people, but its very rare. maybe im just lucky.

It's funny, I have to drink a lot of water on the side of the creatine drink mix-water solution. It does not hydrate well, even though it's primarily water. The stuff I use ends up tasting like fruit punch. But **** me if I don't need to drink lots of water.

[monji112000]

whats the general consensus on it??
pro's cons ??



it can't give you technique. To me thats the only thing that counts. It can't give you muscle memory , timing., speed, ect..

I personally don't understand why people don't just train the natural way. JMO;)

why risk any side effects?

[Shaolin Wookie]

You mean like broken bones, twisted ankles, strained muscles, etc.?

You get creatine every time you eat meat. Your body produces it. In a way, creatine loading is older than the "old ways" and more natural than the "natural way".;)

Also, a healthy layer of muscle makes for good protection against your speed, timing, coordination, and all of the above. Besides, creatine does nothing by itself. You have to work out. The key here is....someone is working out to get stronger. Healthy, natural.....hmmm....seems so.

Besides, I can hit harder than any memory on the face of the earth, thanks to my arm muscles. The brain is strong, but it can't really hurt anyone else.

[Shaolin Wookie]

In the Cliff's Notes version:

Here's you: :)

Here's me: :)

Here's you fighting me: :mad:

Here's me fighting you: :mad:

Here's you hitting me with speed, memory, and timing without big muscles: :mad:

Here's me get getting hit with all of the above, when I have big muscles: :D

Here's you realizing that your memory, speed, and timing are causing me to laugh: :o

Here's me punching you back, half strength: :rolleyes: *yawn*

Here's you getting hit: :eek:

[MSphinx]

^^ I'd sig that if it weren't too long.

[monji112000]

In the Cliff's Notes version:

Here's you: :)

Here's me: :)

Here's you fighting me: :mad:

Here's me fighting you: :mad:

Here's you hitting me with speed, memory, and timing without big muscles: :mad:

Here's me get getting hit with all of the above, when I have big muscles: :D

Here's you realizing that your memory, speed, and timing are causing me to laugh: :o

Here's me punching you back, half strength: :rolleyes: *yawn*

Here's you getting hit: :eek:

here's me laughing at how dumb you are. WTF the size of your arm muscle has NOTHING to do with how hard you punch someone. It has nothing to do with if you will actually hit the person. It has NOTHING to do with him not hitting you. IT has even less to do with how fast you will react. Most of all it has nothing to do with how you take the punch. ECT.. ect.. ect..

ow and ect...

so basically... it solves nothing. Its more effective if your looking at it enhancing your training session. so here me :rolleyes: yawning at your stupidity.

[Toby]

I had similar bad experiences to GDA. I wrote a thread about it once. Tried a few cycles and it didn't agree with me.

[The Willow Sword]

I almost got into the creatine thing, UNTIL i went to get a check up with our family Dr. Now this guy is a combat medic who has served tours in afghanistan so he is a pretty no nonsense guy. I asked him about the creatine supplement and he just looked at me with this "you are an idiot" look. What he told me was that even though creatine does assist in muscle recovery it ALSO has the potential to do harm to your HEART. He explained that when the muscle cells are loaded with water so to is your HEART MUSCLE Loaded with it. He said that he has had a few patients who have had some heart trouble,relatively young guys like me in their 30's and 40's. when they stopped using the creatine the heart troubles went away.

I mean in my humble opinion if you want to recover from workouts and build muscle,eat a Good diet, lots of water,SLEEP at least 8 hrs a night, and get regular massage therapy to assist in the flushing out of metabolic wastes that are created during intense workouts or workouts in general. I have been doing sports massage for a while now and have seen the benefits of it on marathon runners and tri-atheletes.

Peace, TWS