so south africa has passed through a law.....

[golden arhat]

which allows it to take over private property and nationalise it without any notice to the owner no compensation and at any time



zimbabwe here we come:rolleyes:

[mawali]

Capitalist democratic economies have more clever ways of doing the same thing and it is seamless!

[David Jamieson]

yeah it's called expropriation. It's essentially the same thing wrapped in prettier verbiage so you don't feel like you are being screwed over until you actually have been at which point, there is no legal recourse.

You don't honestly think we live in some sort of democratic free nation do you?
lol. we never did!

[shadowlin]

The whole world is going the way of fascism again.

[NJM]

The whole world is going the way of fascism again.

Yes, yes! SOUTH AFRICA WILL USE IT'S MILITARY MIGHT TO CRUSH ALL OPPOSITION!

[unkokusai]

The whole world is going the way of fascism again.


Thank goodness you are safe there in the compound!

[Eddie]

It might be a joke to some, but its serious for people who live down here. Basically it means that someone can take your house by force, or move onto your property and set up a squatters hut to live, and you cant do jack sh$t about it.

Other rumours are that soon the government will start to prohibit people from leaving the country, as the official stats (which we know are not the real stats) say that 20 000 people are leaving the country every month.

Well, my wife is going for her job interview in HK on Thursday … Soon I will join the rest of you first world free people … ;)

Golden Arhat, can you give me a link to something that states that? It was in the newspaper, but the government has been denying a few things since that came out. Our press isn’t all that free you know.

[BruceSteveRoy]

well eddie,

its not easy to uproot but it sounds like its about time to 'get while the gettin's good' (or at least possible). i hear australia is nice.

[shadowlin]

I certainly don't think it's a joke. i was serious about fascism. Mussolini defined fascism as the perfect blend of corporatism and government power. When a socialist government annexes corporations that blending.

good luck with your situation, I am not sure how you've managed to stay there so long, I've heard it has been rough the last fifteen years.

[golden arhat]

here eddie,


March 30 2008 .



Rapport newspaper writes today that from July 2008, all SA private property can be expropriated ( verb (of the state) take (property) from its owner for public use or benefit ) by ANC-regime after July 2008, when the new Expropriations Act goes into effect.



Any private property - not only land used for agriculture -- can be appropriated by the South African state 's ministry of public works.

Effectively, this marks the end of capitalist-style private property

rights in South Africa . And all private-property owners will just have to

accept any price offered to them by the government under this new law unless they are willing to engage in expensive law-suits to get the market-related price for their properties.



Effectively, this new law thus ends all private-ownership rights in South Africa . It includes ALL properties countrywide: if the ministry of internal affairs wants land for housing 'previously disadvantaged' residents, they can and undoubtedly will expropriate land owned by churches, banks, individual home-owners or commercial businesses.



Already the country has no agricultural land left in the legal sense since all agricultural land now falls under the jurisdiction of municipal boundaries countrywide. In 1994 when SA still exported agricultural products on a massive scale, it had 85,000 farmers using less than 7% of the total land surface. At the moment, less than 10,000 commercial farmers remain, raising crops on less than 0.75% of the total land surface. The country is now facing serious food shortages for the first time in its entire recorded agricultural history since the mid-1600's.



Afrikaans newspaper report about new Expropriations Act:

Source URL: http://www.news24.com/Rapport/Nuus/0,,752-795_2296578,00.html

[Yum Cha]

An expropriation law was passed in the States (or maybe just a few states) awhile ago...Australia has also just passed one.

And we abuse the Chinese for the expropriation of land for the Olympic renovation...

Nobody with any power seems to care much, which kinda says it all....

[diego]

here eddie,


March 30 2008 .



Rapport newspaper writes today that from July 2008, all SA private property can be expropriated ( verb (of the state) take (property) from its owner for public use or benefit ) by ANC-regime after July 2008, when the new Expropriations Act goes into effect.



Any private property - not only land used for agriculture -- can be appropriated by the South African state 's ministry of public works.

Effectively, this marks the end of capitalist-style private property

rights in South Africa . And all private-property owners will just have to

accept any price offered to them by the government under this new law unless they are willing to engage in expensive law-suits to get the market-related price for their properties.



Effectively, this new law thus ends all private-ownership rights in South Africa . It includes ALL properties countrywide: if the ministry of internal affairs wants land for housing 'previously disadvantaged' residents, they can and undoubtedly will expropriate land owned by churches, banks, individual home-owners or commercial businesses.



Already the country has no agricultural land left in the legal sense since all agricultural land now falls under the jurisdiction of municipal boundaries countrywide. In 1994 when SA still exported agricultural products on a massive scale, it had 85,000 farmers using less than 7% of the total land surface. At the moment, less than 10,000 commercial farmers remain, raising crops on less than 0.75% of the total land surface. The country is now facing serious food shortages for the first time in its entire recorded agricultural history since the mid-1600's.



Afrikaans newspaper report about new Expropriations Act:

Source URL: http://www.news24.com/Rapport/Nuus/0,,752-795_2296578,00.html

So, the ANC-regime passed this law to start up farms ofr the food crises is that what this all says?:)

[Judge Pen]

An expropriation law was passed in the States (or maybe just a few states) awhile ago...Australia has also just passed one.

And we abuse the Chinese for the expropriation of land for the Olympic renovation...

Nobody with any power seems to care much, which kinda says it all....

Which states?

[Eddie]

So, the ANC-regime passed this law to start up farms ofr the food crises is that what this all says?:)

you make it sound like its a good thing, where in reality it doest work as you may think.

In Mozambique, just north east from here, no foreigner can own land. The government can only lease land to foreign companies, and can break the lease as and when they want.

Now, Maputu (ex lorenzo marx) is such a beautiful place. Its on the warm indian ocean, with unspoiled beaches, perfect climate and amazing landscapes. Perfect place for an international holiday destination.

Point is, no foreign company would ever invest in putting up a hotel down there, simply because they dont own the land and the government can take it when they want. Whats the point then. Business is all about making money, it would be foolish of any international business to invest. So the people will rather die from hunger, than let someone invest in their country.

Thats the African way. But unfortunately, we are not as free as other places and freedom of speech is encouraged, as long as its not against the government. I’ll try be as diplomatic and careful as I can when I say things

[Eddie]

good luck with your situation, I am not sure how you've managed to stay there so long, I've heard it has been rough the last fifteen years.

well, its not easy to pack up and leave, specially if your whole family is down here. My roots are here, my ancestors are here. We are all waiting and hoping for better days

[diego]

you make it sound like its a good thing, where in reality it doest work as you may think.

In Mozambique, just north east from here, no foreigner can own land. The government can only lease land to foreign companies, and can break the lease as and when they want.

Now, Maputu (ex lorenzo marx) is such a beautiful place. Its on the warm indian ocean, with unspoiled beaches, perfect climate and amazing landscapes. Perfect place for an international holiday destination.

Point is, no foreign company would ever invest in putting up a hotel down there, simply because they dont own the land and the government can take it when they want. Whats the point then. Business is all about making money, it would be foolish of any international business to invest. So the people will rather die from hunger, than let someone invest in their country.

Thats the African way. But unfortunately, we are not as free as other places and freedom of speech is encouraged, as long as its not against the government. I’ll try be as diplomatic and careful as I can when I say things

lol the smilie was just me being polite to the kfm posters, I think africa is tragic. I'm confused why they are passing this law, is it because they are corrupt and want to use the courts to claim ownership of what they like, or is it a security measure for the famine?.

[Eddie]

Afrikaans newspaper report about new Expropriations Act:

Source URL: http://www.news24.com/Rapport/Nuus/0,,752-795_2296578,00.html

thanks for the link. If anyone are interested, I can translate the article in english. It does have some more info which makes it more clear as to what's really happening. Unfortunatly, if you're not up to scratch with Southern African politcs, it might just go above you.

[Eddie]

lol the smilie was just me being polite to the kfm posters, I think africa is tragic. I'm confused why they are passing this law, is it because they are corrupt and want to use the courts to claim ownership of what they like, or is it a security measure for the famine?.

Just a quick reply. The government has had this land reform policy for ages, where they basically take land back from current owners and give it back to people who lived there 100s of years ago. This is problematic cause usually the current owners bought this land recently, and weren’t involved in ‘stealing’ the land from their so called rightful owners (a few generations back). So basically, you could own a farm which you bought recently to run a commercial farm, employing hundreds of workers, and because 100 years ago that land was owned by some tribe who ow claim heritage to the land, the government will take the farm away and give to the old owners. Up to now, they were paying slightly lower that market value for these poperty that they took from people, but according to the article they will now be able to take ti with compensating the current owner.

Also according to te article, this law doesn’t just stop at far land, but also extends to businesses, city and suburban houses, Movable property etc.

[bodhitree]

An expropriation law was passed in the States (or maybe just a few states) awhile ago...Australia has also just passed one.

And we abuse the Chinese for the expropriation of land for the Olympic renovation...

Nobody with any power seems to care much, which kinda says it all....


Which states?


Translation: You just got caught makin up some legal bull**** by an attorney:D

[diego]

Just a quick reply. The government has had this land reform policy for ages, where they basically take land back from current owners and give it back to people who lived there 100s of years ago. This is problematic cause usually the current owners bought this land recently, and weren’t involved in ‘stealing’ the land from their so called rightful owners (a few generations back). So basically, you could own a farm which you bought recently to run a commercial farm, employing hundreds of workers, and because 100 years ago that land was owned by some tribe who ow claim heritage to the land, the government will take the farm away and give to the old owners. Up to now, they were paying slightly lower that market value for these poperty that they took from people, but according to the article they will now be able to take ti with compensating the current owner.

Also according to te article, this law doesn’t just stop at far land, but also extends to businesses, city and suburban houses, Movable property etc.

When I look Africa i don't seen too much scientific thinking going on...the news portrays a nation filled with useless hatefilled catharsis, greed and old school superstitions.

Living in vancouver canada it all seems so simple like all people have to do is create more and share, instead they continue on with the judicial paperwork. I don't know, I got lots I could say on this topic, instead I just send out my prayers, **** else can you do:cool:

[Shaolinlueb]

south africa sounds ****ing jarbone.

[golden arhat]

thanks for the link. If anyone are interested, I can translate the article in english. It does have some more info which makes it more clear as to what's really happening. Unfortunatly, if you're not up to scratch with Southern African politcs, it might just go above you.

ja i'd like to see that

my mom basically skimmed over when she was reading it to me.

translate it for uss ???

[Eddie]

Sorry to spoil the mood even more, but there are some friends here who are interested in whats happening down here. This is even more reason why I need to get out.

If you don’t know, the last 10 days the country has been in an almost war state. People started attacking foreigners (mostly illegal) from Zimbabwe and Mozambique, and has even attacked a few Chinese nationals too.

Allots been happening, and tonight on tv news, they said that as from tomorrow the Defense force will be called in to help control this.

So far nearly 50 people died and thousands of people were injured and displaced. I’ll post links and news flashes here. If you guys arent interested, please let me know.

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2324231,00.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/20/world/africa/20safrica.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90777/6414891.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7407914.stm
http://www.thestar.co.za/?fSectionId=3268&****icleId=nw20080521183951241C222276
http://www.southafrica.info/about/democracy/xenophobia-160508.htm
http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_2326655,00.html

[David Jamieson]

expropriation laws and highly restrictive measures against foreign ownership is what keeps Mexico a "poor" country.

It is in fact rich, but so badly corrupted at every level that it will take more time than the lousy 7 or 8 or so years it's been where they've actually tried to practice democracy. :)

Canada has laws like this on provincial levels and the feds may also expropriate your property for public works. I believe this is in urban areas only though. the US and Canada destroyed the free farming livelihood in the 80s though under Reagan and Mulroney, they then bought up all the property and resold it to the likes of Monsanto to grow vast amounts of GM foods across NA.

80% of every soy bean on the planet is produced by Monsanto. they are the same company who produces terminators seeds to sell to 3rd world countries in order to keep them agriculturally dependent on the first world and thereby continuing and perpetuating a market.

crazy stuff is afoot in the world, you better believe it. SA is an embarrassment to it's leaders right now with the ridiculous levels of crime and the slow slide towards communism due to the ineptness at politics of the people who have power. No offense SA, but the ANC isn't exactly what I would call a "fit" government. the slide has been downward from the installment of Mandela, who by the way was a more active version of Jeremiah Wright if you want a comparison. IE he fully advocated violence and what was tantamount to genocide. Not forgiving the apartheid, just saying, in the big scheme of things, Mandela ain't no different in th long run either.

the fact of power is that there will also be the human factor. As much as we pride ourselves on our upward ways, we are far more demonstrative and persistent with our vile ways. :P

[Eddie]

We don’t have any border control, hence the influx of foreigners. I recently heard more than 10 million foreigners in our country. The issue is not the foreigners, but the riots come from the local people.

Allot of these attacks were also not really against foreigners, as that was just a good excuse for these criminals to go out and bash someone to take their stuff.

Sad thing is, while our government insist on not getting involved in the Zimbabwe crisis, our own country is going up in flames.

I have my own views on ex president Mr Mandela and the plenty of other things, but as there really isn’t such a thing as free speech here (I’ve actually even once got into trouble of something I said on this site), I wont comment on that at all.

Germany and Britain issued warnings to their people about traveling to SA today. Funny thing is, we are still hanging onto the idea that the 2010 football (soccer) world cup will be happening here. This when the proper infrastructure has not yet been completed.

[Yum Cha]

Which states?
Hi JP

A few recent developments, nothing new to you I'm sure.

Rise of eminent domain condemnations and forclosures.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/60minutes/main575343.shtml

http://www.dddb.net/php/reading/legal/eminentdomain/index.php

http://www.progress.org/2005/greenp34.htm

http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/23/news/fortune500/retail_eminentdomain/index.htm

I think perhaps it turns on a recent Supreme Court opinion, rather than state law, which, if the articles are any indication, has national implications. Constutional law and all that...

If you have any clarifying comments, I'd welcome the information.

Cheers

[DRAGONSIHING]

Go to Mexico, wade Rio Grande into Texas. No problem, plenty of others have. Seen it myself. Seriously Good Luck in getting out of that mess. Texas is semi-tropical along Gulf of Mexico. Economy fairly good. Come on.