Basic training questions re: Bone Conditioning (shins/hands), endurance training, etc

[Newb]

Hello everyone, I have gotten into training with a personal trainer and it's been really good. I used to practice Bull**** Hap Ki Do when I was a kid and I had to unlearn the ****ty way I would do round house kicks to a better way this trainer is showing me. I wouldn't pivot properly (it was more like a step), I wouldn't open my hips up, nor push down with my other hand and I never kicked with my shin; it was always the top of my foot.

Now that I started kicking with my shins I got curious about iron monk, or bone training. I've heard nightmare stories that simply rolling a pin up and down the shins can lead to long term damage and I don't want that. I want to properly train my bones so that they can sufficiently handle the preassure and I know it'll take a few years for them to get really strong.

I was going to use dit da jow but I'm not sure which one to get, how often I should do bone training, and how to measure my progress. Currently I have a old metal broomstick that I roll up and down my shins on the inside/front/outside for about 15 mins per leg. The legs get a little bit bruised as i've never done this before.

My questions would be:

-How often and how long should I do the training?

-Should I just roll it up and down and put some weight into it?

-What kind of jow should I use? Where can I get a good one?

-Can I just make my own Jow? I've looked it up and there are so many methods that it's confusing.


I am also training by kicking a bag as hard as I can using proper form but the rolling pin conditioning was good since it let's me do it when I'm out of the gym.


Now to endurance training. This is a general trianing session to get my core up. I have good cardio, I can run well, but THIS training is different. I can't explain it, but it screws me up bad. I sweat like a pig in the summer when i do this. He has me do things like:

15 push ups
20 jumping squats with drops to the floor
15 mountain climbers or equivelent
15 light squats with the weight going over my head and down behind my head

10 push ups
10 jumping squats
10 mountain climbers
10 light squates with the weight etc....


go down to 5


That's 1 set.


This conditiong really makes me realize how hard training really is. We start every session with several sets of pull ups and forearm strengthening as well. My intention at the moment is to build up my core strength then go on to some grappeling.

Sorry for the long read but if you have any suggs on anything please let me know, I appreciate it.


edit:
what do you guys think of ordering from here?
http://www.ditdajow.com/addj.htm

[bodhitree]

It really all depends upon your goals....


Look through the strenght training links thread at the top of this forum, you'll find useful links to develop a program around your goals.

[bodhitree]

opps....

I thought this was a question about strenght.....

[Newb]

No problem, I plan on reviewing the links you suggested. Does anyone have any recommendationson what balms to use for bone conditioning and how often to do it?

[David Jamieson]

newb.

a forum is not really an appropriate place to get full information regarding iron training.

you will get cursory textual explanation, but with only that, you take a risk on a couple of levels.

1.how do you know the info is legit? you can't see and assess a result.

2. how do you get correction?

these are important.

[Oso]

aw, quit being a wuss and just hit a tree.





























;)


just kidding, DJ is basically right.

if you can find someone who is versed in both traditional and modern approaches to training (not just 'iron'; probably very impossible) and get both sides of the coin then you'll do ok.

[Samurai Jack]

Dale Dugas and Plum Dragon sell thier own jows. Dale's got an Iron Palm program, and might be able to point you in the right direction.

There are a few rare manuals out there for training the "Iron Broom-stick," which is the old Kung fu term for shin conditioning. You might be able to find something on amazon or e-bay, but it'll certainly be in Chinese.

I think this English book:

http://www.wle.com//products/b013.html

Has some Iron Broom-stick exercises in it, but thier safety and authenticity are debatable.

Still, doing what you've been doing with a good strong bone jow may be all you need. Your trainer probably has a method that works, and you can't go wrong backing it with jow.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Hello everyone, I have gotten into training with a personal trainer and it's been really good. I used to practice Bull**** Hap Ki Do when I was a kid and I had to unlearn the ****ty way I would do round house kicks to a better way this trainer is showing me. I wouldn't pivot properly (it was more like a step), I wouldn't open my hips up, nor push down with my other hand and I never kicked with my shin; it was always the top of my foot.

Now that I started kicking with my shins I got curious about iron monk, or bone training. I've heard nightmare stories that simply rolling a pin up and down the shins can lead to long term damage and I don't want that. I want to properly train my bones so that they can sufficiently handle the preassure and I know it'll take a few years for them to get really strong.

I was going to use dit da jow but I'm not sure which one to get, how often I should do bone training, and how to measure my progress. Currently I have a old metal broomstick that I roll up and down my shins on the inside/front/outside for about 15 mins per leg. The legs get a little bit bruised as i've never done this before.

My questions would be:

-How often and how long should I do the training?

-Should I just roll it up and down and put some weight into it?

-What kind of jow should I use? Where can I get a good one?

-Can I just make my own Jow? I've looked it up and there are so many methods that it's confusing.


I am also training by kicking a bag as hard as I can using proper form but the rolling pin conditioning was good since it let's me do it when I'm out of the gym.


Now to endurance training. This is a general trianing session to get my core up. I have good cardio, I can run well, but THIS training is different. I can't explain it, but it screws me up bad. I sweat like a pig in the summer when i do this. He has me do things like:

15 push ups
20 jumping squats with drops to the floor
15 mountain climbers or equivelent
15 light squats with the weight going over my head and down behind my head

10 push ups
10 jumping squats
10 mountain climbers
10 light squates with the weight etc....


go down to 5


That's 1 set.


This conditiong really makes me realize how hard training really is. We start every session with several sets of pull ups and forearm strengthening as well. My intention at the moment is to build up my core strength then go on to some grappeling.

Sorry for the long read but if you have any suggs on anything please let me know, I appreciate it.


edit:
what do you guys think of ordering from here?
http://www.ditdajow.com/addj.htm

You need to make a consious decision as to WHY you are doing MA and WHAT you want to get out of it.
That is the first step.
Many of these traditional ( and even some modern) training methods are oriented towards fighters, not your "average joe".
They can be at times a long and painful road to a very limited gain, unless you are training for a specific goal.

If you are simply a "recreational hobbyist" you don't need to do any of that stuff.
If you are looking to be a "amateur" fighter ( you like to fight but have a full time job and a life), then bag work and some supplementary work is all that is needed in terms of conditioning.

If, however, your goal is somethign else, you need to understand what it means to walk that path.

[Newb]

Hi team, thanks for all of the input, it was good. I also got a good PM. Something interesting happened to me last night. I was doing some basic bone conditioning with rolling a metal cylander down my shins when my friend stood up and said ok we're going to practice kicking each other in the shins.

I kept trying to avoid it by stating that I'm just trying to do basic bone conditioining, this is too much right now. He kept insisting but I'd hold my kicks way back, and kept telling him he's kicking at a level 3, I'm trying to do level 1 conditioning, this isn't the right way.

Finally after lots of taunts and preassure to kick as hard as he is, which wasn't that hard mind you; I finally submitted and did it. The poor guy fell to the floor and limped/hopped back to his seat and sat down LOL.

Luckily i've had martial arts training in the past so my shins I guess are slightly developed, and we both hit with the same spot. Anyways, I think he has a whole new found respect for the training now. He wouldn't let me borrow his cylendar stating that now he needs to start using it. lol.

[IronFist]

My questions would be:

-How often and how long should I do the training?

Every day is good for general conditioning. Of course if you do too much (ie. get a big or painful bruise) you might want to take a few days off. Every other day could work, too.


-Should I just roll it up and down and put some weight into it?

People condition their shins just fine by kicking a heavy bag (usually a hard one) and sparring. If you insist on hitting/rolling stuff on your shins, don't do it for 15 min a day! That's nuts. Besides, that's gotta be boring as hell.

And go slowly. If you're getting bruises or lumps you're going too fast.

Watch this vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6znehWQhyqk

And this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pD0KFO9ZQw&feature=related


-What kind of jow should I use? Where can I get a good one?

I've heard Wing Lam's jow is good but it never really removed any of my bruises. If you believe in homeopathic medicine you can get some Arnica gel.


-Can I just make my own Jow? I've looked it up and there are so many methods that it's confusing.

I have no idea. I'm sure it's possible but I wonder how many recipes are actually good, legit, and safe.


I am also training by kicking a bag as hard as I can using proper form but the rolling pin conditioning was good since it let's me do it when I'm out of the gym.

We used to kick the bags, pads, spar (with shin guards... shin on shin contact hurts like all hell in the beginning... literally the softest bump at the wrong angle will have you on the ground holding your shin in agony).

To supplement I used to use a piece of 2" (I think) PVC pipe and LIGHTLY tap my shin up and down for 20-40 repetitions. A PVC pipe is round, tho, so your contact area is very small. This lasted a few minutes total, not 15 minutes. Also I'm confident that PVC pipe is softer than my shin bone. Metal might not me, and you don't want to do permanent damage by hitting your shin with something harder than bone.

You also might want to try Wing Lam's "iron body bags," which are long skinny canvas bags full of beans or rocks that you beat your forearms/shins with. I had excellent results using that method on my forearms, but not so much on my shins. If you want to use these bags, start with 10 hits per day per shin (or forearm) and gradually increase the force with which you strike. After a few months start adding 1 extra strike per week until you get to 36 or something, and then you can move to the next bag (the one filled with rocks). At that point warm up with the old mung bean bag (do only 10) and then do 10 light ones with the rock bag. Again, I used this method on my forearms back in the day and it worked wonderfully. I used it on my shins as well, and while I could hit myself pretty hard in the shins with the rock bag, it still was very painful to do shin-on-shin contact so I think there might be a better way for shins. This method also requires a lot of time spent massaging yourself afterward.

After each "session" I would spend a few minutes rubbing and massaging my shins. Sometimes I'd use Arnica gel or jow and sometimes I wouldn't use anything. If you bruise you're going too fast, and shin bruises seem to take forever to heal anyway (especially big lump ones). Go slow and you can train again tomorrow. Hit yourself too hard and you'll have to skip a few weeks while that part of your shin heals.


Now to endurance training. This is a general trianing session to get my core up. I have good cardio, I can run well, but THIS training is different. I can't explain it, but it screws me up bad. I sweat like a pig in the summer when i do this. He has me do things like:

15 push ups
20 jumping squats with drops to the floor
15 mountain climbers or equivelent
15 light squats with the weight going over my head and down behind my head

10 push ups
10 jumping squats
10 mountain climbers
10 light squates with the weight etc....


go down to 5


That's 1 set.


That's good cardio and high intensity stuff but be aware that it won't really make you any stronger (in terms of increasing the maximum amount of force you can produce), but it's not designed to. You will need to lift weights for that.

[Oso]

Dale Dugas makes and sells jow and simply by rep alone it should be good.

Dale's profile:

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/member.php?u=8059

I can recommend Mike Biggies jow personally. I've only purchased and brewed his basic bruise jow but I'm sure based on how well it works, that anything he concocts will be good.

Mike's profile:

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/member.php?u=19307

[SteveLau]

Newb,

Rolling a metal rod or pressing it on the shins is not the right way to hardening the bone. The shin bone is the same kind of bone as in our forearms. Tapping is the right way to go. Increases the tapping force more as your conditioning improves.




KC
Hong Kong