CLF Questions and Answers [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

Lama Pai Sifu

05-13-2008, 03:20 PM

joseph, you don't know ****! howard choy told me personally a long time ago in an email that jeung yim had to change his name cuz it was connected to gangsters. according to howard choy jeung yim asked chan heung what name he should use. so we have a confirmation here joseph from howard choy. jeung yim did not originally call his school glorious victory, it was originally hung mun victory. sorry chan fam joe, u are wrong again!

When was Cheung Yim born?
born in 1824 during the Ching Dynasty

So, he was 12 when Chan Heung had already created CLF. Okay...

Was Chan Heung Cheung Yim's only teacher?
A: No. Prior to 1836 Cheung Yim was a student of Lee Ga Master Lee Yau San, Chan Heung's second sifu. Then in 1836 about the same time or early than the official establising of the system, Chan Heung took in the 12 year old Cheung Hung Sing. Then in 1841 Cheung Hung Sing took the Green Grass Monk as his final sifu. This is where Cheung Hung Sing is said to have put the "FUT" in Choy Lee Fut.

So Cheung Yim studied with the Green Grass Monk LATER ON. He is Chan Heung's student none the less.

Why did Cheung Yim only study Choy Lee Fut under Chan Heung for 5 years?A:Well, if you think about it, Cheung Yim was never really an official student of Chan Heung. why? Because Cheung Yim copied Chan Heung's techniques, but later was secretly trained by him. Because back then, only those with the surname of Chan were allowed to learn Chan Heung's gung fu....hence all of Chan Heung's original students possessed the last name of Chan.
But when Cheung Yim revealed that he was being trained by Chan Heung by injuring his teachers senior disciples, the parents of the injured individuals complained to the village elders who gave Chan Heung an ear full on the village rules. So Chan Heung was forced to ask Cheung Yim to leave the King Mui village.

How do you put this 12 year old kid as a founder of CLF? So, he was a contributer to a future branch, so what?? So was Taam Saam, So what??

Why not just give him that credit?? What is the difference?? Do you think that it means that FUT SAN HUNG SING CLF is not as good as Chan Family? It's a matter of preference, right? If you like it, then it's good. Don't be so insecure....face facts Frank. You've already laid it out here....

Why all the hub-bub?

extrajoseph

05-13-2008, 03:22 PM

"...howard choy told me personally a long time ago in an email..."

Show us the email then, Frank. If you have'nt got it now, then you can wite to Howard Choy again, I am sure he is still around somewhere in Australia if you Google search him. I only commented on what he wrote and what you have quoted.

You have showed us a name in Chinese characters that no one ever used in CLF, that shows how much you know about our history. All your so called "research" came from Futsan, you are just not equipped to do your own original work, because you do not have the language ability to do so. Sorry to be so blunt, but that is the fact as I see it.

CLFNole

05-13-2008, 07:06 PM

If Jeong Yim was asking Chan Hueng what name he should use doesn't that look like a student asking a sifu? If he wasn't his student but rather an equal or co-founder couldn't he use whatever name he wanted?

mokkori

05-13-2008, 11:15 PM

Come'on Franky, you can take these chumps! ;)

extrajoseph

05-14-2008, 12:32 AM

Dear Mokkori,

There is no flame to fan here.

Despite Frank's pig-headedness, he is a great soldier of CLF just like all of us here. Without guys like him, we would never be what we are today.

History and tradition are what bound us together and arguing about their details made our jouney more interesting.

As long as Frank call himself a CLF man and throw those mean Kwa, Sow and Charp, he is my brother.

I am a little bit older than he is, so I can slap him around a little bit. :D He is a big man, so he can take it! Don't you worry. ;)

XJ

Eddie

05-14-2008, 02:32 AM

Dear Mokkori,

Despite Frank's pig-headedness, he is a great soldier of CLF just like all of us here. Without guys like him, we would never be what we are today.
...

He is a big man, so he can take it! Don't you worry. ;)

:cool:

nicely put.

Eric Olson

05-14-2008, 04:59 AM

Let's see if Howard Choy magically appears...he used to post on here as Wu Lung I think.

EO

mokkori

05-14-2008, 06:17 AM

Not trying to fan any flames, but I did get you to say something nice about Frank! That makes it his turn I guess? Hey, I know the issue and I know the mutual respect despite of it. Sorry to make light of such a serious situation, Ill leave yous to it.

hskwarrior

05-14-2008, 12:21 PM

Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut
History lesson 101

Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut was established officially in 1851 by Jeung Hung Sing, native of Sun Wui.

Q: When was Jeung Yim born?
A: 1824

Q: Did Jeung Yim learn anything prior to coming to Chan Heung?
A: Yes, Lee Yau San was in Sun Wui and was Jeung Yims first teacher prior to turning 12 years old.

Q: Was Jeung Yim the founder of his own gung fu by the age of 12?
A: NO. Jeung Yim went to chan heung when the latter officially established his Choy Lee Fut that was going to passed down strictly within the Chan Village in King Mui.

Q: Was CLF fully established by the time Jeung Yim went to Chan Heung?
A: No. CLF had just got launched and Jeung Yim was there in its initial stages of development and left after only 5 years. And Chan Heung spent the rest of his life developing his own system.

Q: What happened to Jeung Yim after those 5 years?
A: Jeung Yim was sent to the Green Grass Monk who completed his gung fu training.
Q: How old was Jeung Yim when he went to the Green Grass Monk?
A: 17 years old.

Q: Who was the Green Grass Monk?
A: The Green Grass Monk had many alias as was the custom of the times then. Especially when you were running from authorities. But, some of the names he was known by was Ng Ging, and Tsai-Te-Chung. Later he was part of the 2nd founding fathers of the Hung Mun Society. According to information stemming from Hung Ga and Some Southern Shaolin sources the Green Grass Monk was the head gung fu instructor at the temple in charge of 108 monks.

The Green Grass Monk was said to have studied from Monk Hang Yang, who lived at the Chung Lam Temple. In one story, the soldiers destroyed the Chung Lam Temple and thought Hang Yang was dead so they left him, but the Green Grass Monk happened to find Hang Yang alive under some rubble.

Q: When was the Hung Mun established?
A: Between 1767-1787
Q: Acoording to these dates, do you thing its possible Jeung Yim learned from the Green Grass Monk?
A: yes. According to our story, the Green Grass Monk was already and old old man when Jeung Yim finally located him.

Q: How long did Jeung Yim learn Fut Ga from the Green Grass Monk?
A: 8 years. (1841-1849)

Q: Green Grass Monk gave Jeung Yim a new name of Hung Sing, what did this name mean?
A: Its original meaning was Hung Mun Victory, but because it contained the Hung from Hung Mun he eventually had to change his name to avoid being arrested or killed by the cops or soldiers. He later used the Glorious Victory Hung Sing to cover up the old one.

Q: What happened to Jeung Yim when he completed his training under the Green Grass Monk?
A: The Green Grass Monk instructed him to go to Fut San, contact the Hung Mun there, and devote your school to training Hung Mun fighters.

Q: Was there a Chan Family school in Fut San then?
A: It seems there was a Chan Family Hung Xiong (Great Sage Hung) school there. But that person and Jeung Yim used completely different characters in their names. So, the blind guy could have been the first for Chan Heung, but Jeung Yim was the first to use Hung Victory/Glorious Victory in Fut San.

Q: When did Jeung Yim take over the Chan Family school in Fut San?
A: 1875, the year of Chan Heungs death.

Q: Xtrajoseph says that no one in CLF ever used the Hung Victory Hung Sing, so you must check your notes.
A: According to Chan Family CLF information, Chan Heungs son Koon Pak changed the name of his hung sing because his gung fu brothers (Lee Yan-Jeung Yims senior disiciple) were getting into a lot of trouble so he change his name to the one meaning Strong Victory. This is a little strange since Chan Heungs Hung Xiong didnt contain the word Victory in it, but his sons school did.

Jeung Yim had to change the name of his school to take off the heat he was receiving over it. He then changed the name to Glorious Victory. However, in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms, a Hung Mun banquet was being held where Liu Bang was almost assassinated. In the story, the Hung typically used for the Hung Mun wasnt used this time. The one used was in fact the Hung meaning Glorious or Wild Goose. The same one Jeung Yim changed his Hung to.

My question is, if Chan Heungs own son, and Jeung Hung Sing had to change their names to avoid being killed by the Qing, what names were they using then if the Hung Victory wasnt being used then?

Q: Xtrajoseph wants you to produce an email that goes back over ten years, what do you think?
A: Of course he does. But I don=t t have to. In the early 1990's I contacted Howard Choy to ask him if he knew any information about the Green Grass Monk. He told me the Chan Family didnt have anything or know anything about the Green Grass Monk, that nothing was in their writing about him He then told me that Jeung Yim had to change his schools name because he was wanted by the police and needed to hide. So, according to Howard Choy, it was Chan Heung who told him to use the Glorious Victory Hung Sing.

Q: Does the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon deny that Chan Heung was his sifu?
A: No. As simple as that. But, was Chan Heung Jeung Yims most influential sifu? Did he complete Jeung Yims gung fu? Another simple answer. NO!
Q: Then who did complete Jeung Yims training?
A: The Green Grass Monk did. See, first Jeung Yim learned from Lee Yau San. In a sense, this makes Chan Heung and Jeung Yim classmates since they both learned from the same sifu. Jeung Yim was under Chan Heung in the birthing stages of Chan Heungs Choy Lee Fut. So in that sense, Chan Heung was the creator of Choy Lee Fut. But when Jeung Yim came back from the Green Grass Monk and shared with Chan Heung what he learned from his last teacher, a newer CLF had emerged.

Q: Joseph seems to think that noone used the Hung Victory name in Fut San. What do you think about this?
A: Well, if Joseph knew anything about the Hung Mun, hed know that most of the people in Fut San or southern China at that who supported the Hung Mun added the Hung to their names back then. The Green Grass Monk being heavily involved with the Hung Mun as he was, instructed Jeung Yim to use the Hung character with the word victory in it because the Green Grass Monk was Hung Mun!!!!!!!

Q: What revolutions was Jeung Yim and His Hung Sing Kwoon involved in?
A: Tai Ping Rebellion, the Second Opium War, Red Turban Revolt, and a few smaller ones. But the hsk was involved with every revolution up to the 1940's.

Q: What do you think Jeung Yims main purpose was?
A: Jeung Yim was so involved with the hung mun that I don=t t think he was that interested in promoting the system. He was too focused on staying alive, training the Hung Mun fighters and his own, and only interested in evolving his system to worry about spreading the style. They were at war, millions of people, including Hung Sing and CLF people died in the Tai Ping Rebellion. Many many CLF masters died then. What a shame.

Q: why do you say Jeung Yim was co-founder of CLF.
A: Well, according to many writings, even in Chinese, there is a theme that there was a 2nd coming of CLF, a restructuring, reshaping or whatever after mid 1850's if you will. Also, according to the history how it is universally passed down, Jeung Yim payed a visit to Chan Heung, thanked him, and shared what he learned with his former teacher.

Q: Does the Jeung Yim lineage believe Chan Heung was Jeung Yims teacher?
A: Yes, but he wasnt Jeung Yims only teacher. Lee Yau San was first, Chan Heung 2nd, and Monk Ching Cho last. If Chan Heung was Jeung Yims only teacher, we would excitingly admit that with no reservations.

Q: When Did Jeung Hung Sing Die?
A: He died in 1893 after falling ill and dying from something like Pneumonia at the age of 69/70.

Q: who was the successor?
A: Chan Ngau Sing.
Q: With people like Lui Chun, Lee Yan and Yuen Hai, why was Chan Ngau Sing chose as the successor?
A: Couldnt say exactly, but perhaps because Lui Chun, Lee Yan, and Yuen Hai all had their own Hung Sings going at the time long before CNS.. And since Jeung Yim just passed away, Chan Ngau Sing took over.

Q: Who were some of Chan Ngau Sings students?
A: Some of the more famous ones was Chui Cheung, Qian Wei Fang, Liangguihua, Wu Qin (who was Sun Yat Sens personal body guard) and many many more. In fact, the number of Chan Ngau Sings students reached over 10,000.

Joseph, I live in San Francisco. Have you been to SF? Theres lots of Chinese people here, who speak and read Chinese here. How lucky am I? So, my long time buddy, I got access to anything I need in regards to Chinese things. LOL. You have no idea!!!!!!!!!
In fact, I hope to be inserting a photo I will be allowed to take at the Hung Mun Ghee Kung Tong Supreme Lodge of the Hung Mun alter, which has the first 5 ancestors on it, then the second 5 ancestors which includes Tsai-Te-Chung, who we believe is the Green Grass Monk.

Including this link of the Head of the Hung Mun, (its on the net, so don=t t trip) but behind him is this alter im referring to.

here...Click Here (http://www.sfweekly.com/photoGallery/index.php?id=648991&p=1)

extrajoseph

05-14-2008, 02:49 PM

Frank,

The character for Hung as in Hung Mun was never used at the same time with Sing (Victory) in any of the CLf branch names. If you diagree, please show me some evidence to support your claim.

This Hung character as in Hung Mun was used by the Ancestral King Mui School as the Great Sage Hung Sing. Once this character Hung as in Hung Mun was used by King Mui, no other branch will use it again. All the three Hung characters are written in a different way, to differentiate the three schools from each other.

I have been to your city and there are a lot of Chinese there, but unless they are familiar with CLF history, they would have no ideas of what we are talking about.

The stuff you wrote up about Jeung Yim came from Futsan Hung Sing Gwoon, they made these things up after they got going in March 1998 (i.e. formally registered), so if you can find any material before the 1990s to say the same thing as you mentioed, then I will take another serious look, otherwise they are just fabricated stories without any supporting evidence.

Jeung Yim never studied with Lee Yau-Shan and the GGM was a made up character. Jeung Yim was a devoted disciple of Chan Heung and followed him all his life. You tried to change history by saying Futsan and King Mu CLF are different because they do their forms differently, that don't comput with me. Every branch do their forms differently, but they all came down through Chan Heung.

The age difference between Chan Heung and Jeung Yim was too great for Jeung to have co-founded CLF and there is no evidence that Jeung Yim's CLF is different to Chan Heung, they are just stylistic differences with the same core principles.

History is not about what you believed in, history is not a faith, it is a branch of knowledge, so if you want to change history, then you have to do some pretty hard study and research to convince us.

XJ

extrajoseph

05-14-2008, 03:40 PM

Frank,

Here is what the Chinese in China and not SF think of Chan Heung and Jeung Yim.

1) Type in the characters for Chan Heung in the Google search and you will get pages about Chan Heung being the founder of CLF:

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=%E9%99%88%E4%BA%AB&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

2) Type in the characters for Jeung Yim in the Google search and you hardly get any thing on him or CLF:

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=%E5%BC%A0+%E7%82%8E&hl=en&start=0&sa=N

3) Type in the characters for Futsan Hung Sing Gwoon and you will get a page from the People's Government of Guangdong Province to say Jeung Yim was a disciple of Chan Heung:

http://www.gd.gov.cn/gdgk/gdms/stzz/200709/t20070924_20967.htm

4) In the government website for Overseas Chinese Affairs of Guandong, you can read about King Mui being the birthplace of CLF:

http://www.gd.gov.cn/gdgk/gdms/stzz/200709/t20070924_20967.htm

If Jeung Yim co-found CLF, the Chinese government would have heard about that, wouldn't they?

XJ

seisei

05-14-2008, 04:35 PM

ej.
good or bad you sound just like frank are you the same person with a split personality?
m

hskwarrior

05-14-2008, 04:59 PM

hskwarrior

05-14-2008, 05:22 PM

joseph....what are the age differences that you say are too great btween chan heung? 2) who told you no one used the hung mun hung? was it some chan fam person, or writing? 3) ggm was hung mun, he told jeung yim to go to fut san n join the hung mun. was jeung yim out there promoting clf or was he out there fighting in the revolution for the hung mun? 4) why should a fut san hsk student believe a chan fam person about our history?

hskwarrior

05-14-2008, 05:45 PM

joseph, when u n i meet in person i will show u my evidence. ......1) what evidence do u have that clearly says jeung yim never called his school "hung victory" 2) whats your evidence to prove the ggm is a myth? 3) where your proof jeung yim never learned from lys?

Yao Sing

05-14-2008, 05:56 PM

Unfortunately, since it's impossible to prove a negative, the proof is going to fall on you. It's like proving you didn't run through the streets naked on your birthday.

Prove Santa Claus doesn't exist. Can't be done.

Yao Sing

05-14-2008, 06:11 PM

At this point with an agreed upon history, regardless of the source or political motivation, it will require hard evidence before anyone would be willing to make changes.

So until evidence surfaces the history stands as is even though you don't trust where the info came from.

hskwarrior

05-14-2008, 06:50 PM

joseph, u always seem to point out things about jeung yims legacy...why do u ignore the same things aboutyour lineage! there's an issue chan heungs birth date..is it 1815 or 1805? do u think chan fam clf was upset that jeung yim took over theblind guys school, and changed the name from great sage hung to hung/glorious victory? was chan heung in the hun mun? didn't his students encourage him to join the fight but he declined because it was against his buddhist beliefs? oh, and now choy fook is the green grass monk. one of li iu lings writers feels ggm was hung mun's Fong Dai Hung, but feels jeung yim was never a student of ggm. go figure! oh, jeung yim was a latter disciple of chan heung (1867) but jeung yim opened in 1851. so jo, you have as much holes as we do. what now?

extrajoseph

05-15-2008, 10:42 AM

Frank,

Lets get back to the main point of our disagreement and that is your attempt to change history by saying Jeung Yim co-founded CLF and we disagree, so it is up to you to prove it. If you think he learned from LYS as well as the GGM, then show us some evidence.

All the other stuff are just red herrings you throw at us to to side track the main issue.

There is no need to prove Chan Heung is the sole founder of CLF because it is an accepted historical fact and it is recorded in the country history book (Yuan Shi), issued by the government.

So the ball is in your court, otherwise stop making up your own history. It is not something that you believed in and it becomes true.

XJ

Eric Olson

05-15-2008, 10:50 AM

Unfortunately, since it's impossible to prove a negative, the proof is going to fall on you.

He could come up with evidence that would disprove the Chan Family version. But what evidence does Chan Family have that proves their version? I don't think anyone has any hard evidence either way and so this conversation (which is the same one that peeps have been having since 2001) is purely political as no one has any evidence either way that isn't tainted by some political motivation (and when I say political I don't mean Barack and Billary.);)

EO

extrajoseph

05-15-2008, 10:50 AM

joseph, where did the gov. get any info on chan heung? was it from the chan family? if so, u show me yours ill show u mine okay? lol.....you'll take a look. who are u again joseph that i have to show u anything? instead of shooting it down, do something productive n show me something other than chan fam based.

The government of any sort generally get their information from the people, then they checked it with their historians before putting them on record. China is well-known for her ecord takings by the authorities.

Eric Olson

05-15-2008, 11:04 AM

2001 called....it wants its thread back:

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1672&highlight=green+grass+monk

extrajoseph

05-15-2008, 11:09 AM

He could come up with evidence that would disprove the Chan Family version. But what evidence does Chan Family have that proves their version? I don't think anyone has any hard evidence either way and so this conversation (which is the same one that peeps have been having since 1999) is purely political as no one has any evidence either way that isn't tainted by some political motivation (and when I say political I don't mean Barack and Billary.);)

EO

There is a text book for the sports and wushu historians called "The History of Guangong Martial Arts" and it gave the governemnt version of what is considered to be accurate and true as far as primary sources are concerned. In the book, Chan Heung is acknowledged as the sole founder of CLF. What would be the Chinese government's political motivation, if there is one?

The answer is none. IIt is just a fact Chan Heung is the founder of CLF.

Eric Olson

05-15-2008, 11:11 AM

There is a text book for the sports and wushu historians called "The History of Guangong Martial Arts" and it gave the governemnt version of what is considered to be accurate and true as far as primary sources are concerned. In the book, Chan Heung is acknowledged as the sole founder of CLF. What would be the Chinese government's political motivation, if there is one?

The answer is none. IIt is just a fact Chan Heung is the founder of CLF.

And governments aren't political?

EO

extrajoseph

05-15-2008, 11:14 AM

Where is the politics in this one? Why would it be more advantageous for the present Chinese government to back Chan Heung as the founder and not Jeung Yim?

lkfmdc

05-15-2008, 11:39 AM

And governments aren't political?

EO

Sure, sometimes they are. But the obvious question (or challenge) would be to state what the agenda/angel is.

Here is an example of government bias in martial arts history. Lama Pai is descended from a "non chinese"/"non han" part of what is now China and from non Han ethnicities mostly. OK, making matters worse, it is associated with XiZhang (Tibet). So when the government issued a history of southern styles they "re wrote" the history of Lama and made Dat Mo in Shaolin teh founder. No, I joke you not!

WHY? Obvious. To make Lama "Chinese", to link it to "Shaolin" (to booster that tourist trap!), to link it to the "gung ren" who are "han", etc etc

But in the case of CLF, what political agenda is served by saying one Han chinese of correct social class founded it over another Han Chinese of correct social class??

dragon323

05-15-2008, 11:41 AM

Hello:

Some question for hskwarriors;

GM Yuen Hai born around 1821 ?
GM Jeong Yim born 1824 ?
GM Yuen Hai meet GM Jeong Yim around 1840, when he turned 18 and GM Jeong Yim 16 ?
But in this time GM Jeong Yim aren´t GM Chan Heung student ?
If GM Lau Bun born in 1891 and first learnt Hung Gar, how old was GM Lau Bun when meet GM Yuen Hai ? 15, 16, 20.... and then How old was GM Yuen Hai 85, 86, 90...

Source dates; websites from hskwarriors

hskwarrior

05-15-2008, 11:57 AM

actually that was from some of my early writing while we were figuring out the dates. yuen hai was a senior student who started at about the age of 18 according to ggm jew leong. i based that writing on the 10 year gap idea. but i was incorrect about yuen hai's supposed birth date. never got around to correcting it since im working on my book.

dragon323

05-15-2008, 12:10 PM

Hello

When was GM Yuen Hai born ?

Regards

hskwarrior

05-15-2008, 12:30 PM

Dragon323,

let me be clear for you.

when i started writing our history, we learned that there was a ten year gap. Fut San had accused the Chan Family of altering the dates of Chan Heung's birth. There are other sites out there that says Chan Heung was born in 1815, and even a Li Iu Ling historical information page places Chan Heung's birthdate in 1815 and not in 1805.

So, when Fut San had said that the dates were altered to make Chan Heung look older, it was MY idea to push back Jeung Yim's birthday to 1814. But I later changed it to the accepted 1824.

Yuen Hai was GGM Jew Leong's sigung, and how Lau Bun passed it down to him, Yuen Hai was most likely from Vietnam because his last name was pronounce like Nguyen (win). He came to Fut San in Fut San's early stages. Now as we discovered the Hung Sing Kwoon opened in 1851, I obviously have to change my old writing. So from 18 years old until his death, he was a student of Jeung Hung Sing.

Lau Bun learned Hung Gar as a young boy. DFW may have more info, so would my sigung, but my sigung is a man of very few words. Lau Bun learned from Yuen Hai while the latter was in his old age. Even Lun Chee met the elder Yuen Hai during the Japanese war.

But we were never told actually how old Yuen Hai was, or his exact birthdate since that has been lost to time. there are NO records to prove wrong or right. Yes, the birth and death is more along the lines of guesstimation.

But what we do know, and has been confirmed by many hung sings around the world, Yuen Hai was one of the top 3 seinior students.

The only issue here is that i based my infor on the idea that Jeung Hung Sing was born in 1814 and not 1824. hence the 10 year gap.

extrajoseph

05-15-2008, 01:44 PM

Frank,

There is a lot of info on Yuan Hai (and Jeung Yim as well) in this webpage. Get someone to translate for you and you may even find out where your lineage really came from and it is not Futsan if Yuan Hai was GGM Jew Leong's sigung.

http://www.chens.org.cn/shownews.asp?newsid=468

It is amazing how you just made things up and expect people to believe them!

XJ

seisei

05-15-2008, 01:57 PM

is this more hate towards hung sing people ,AGAIN ? OR are really trying to help and not control.If it's trying to brake us again,Give it a break. if its helpful thank you

CLFNole

05-15-2008, 02:00 PM

seisei, why don't you at least read what he linked and give us your opinion.

hskwarrior

05-15-2008, 02:11 PM

for one, since it stems from chan fam.....Im not interested in it unless fut san says its true. w hen did this info come out joseph? and remember, just like in clf there are two tong seks, there are two yuen hai's. i ll read it tomorrow.

hskwarrior

05-15-2008, 02:21 PM

i find it hilarious that u make me out as the bad guy here bro jo.....u seem to think i just made up our history. but what doesn't kill me joseph only make me stronger. so bring it on!

seisei

05-15-2008, 02:23 PM

clf nole,

sorry to sound negative,but in the short time i've been enjoying this forum,I'm not used to this type of mentality,he just wants to be a jerk and saying ha-ha i know more than you.i'm sending you ths note cause sifu frank seems to think you are an ok person. lay you odds. that the clown is trying to clown again .personally i think sifu frank should stay awy from anything the chans say or do,but he enjoys debating i guess

CLFNole

05-15-2008, 02:58 PM

All I said was since you are chinese , read what the link says and give us your opinion of what it says. If you believe it or not, it doesn't matter, I and probably others who don't read chinese would like to know what it says. I can ask my wife but she will yell at me for being "on that stupid kung fu thing".

Previously you started a post asking about my lineage, which I happily answered, so "quid pro quo".

seisei

05-15-2008, 03:39 PM

understood

extrajoseph

05-15-2008, 05:10 PM

Not to be biased, here is Futsan's version in English:

http://www.hongshengguan.com/indexe.htm

It says Chan Heung (1805-1875) sent Jeung Yim to study with the GGM and then Jeung came back to share with Chan so now Jeung is the Father of CLF while Chan was the Originator of CLF. No mention Jeung studied with LYS at all.

Bur the title did say, "The LEGEND of Jeung Hung Sing", and not the history.

extrajoseph

05-15-2008, 05:19 PM

Can you imagine Frank goes to study in Futsan, comes back to SF and share his knowledge with his old Sifu Dino and then became the Father of American Hung Sing!

Yao Sing

05-15-2008, 05:23 PM

Giving him ideas now, that can't be good. :D

htowndragon

05-15-2008, 05:34 PM

When Chen Xiang Gong heard of Zhang Yan’s achievement, he regarded him as friend. Zhang Hongsheng attributed his triumph to Chen’s instruction. He showed great respect to Chen Xiang Gong during their daily association. In return for Chen Xiang’s previous help and training, he taught Chen Xiang what he had learned from “Qingcao”. Afterwards, they studied those skills and techniques and created many more new actions. They were inspired in their training for wushu and exercised systematically, focusing on different plus their respective innovation.

Because their kungfu was all derived from Shaolin, integrating the three styles advantages, in memory of Cai Yafu, Li Youshan and Qingcao monk, they named it “Cai-Li-Fo”. And Zhang Hongsheng was worshipped as the father of “Cai-Li-Fo”. “Cai-Li-Fo” was such formally founded and became a vital genre of Southern China, spreading throughout the region.

^ sounds like it was some co-founding to me...

CLFNole

05-15-2008, 05:53 PM

I can read english too, that is not what needed to be translated.

Yao Sing

05-15-2008, 06:01 PM

It's a really tough call as I see it. I think there was agreement that he made a significant contribution to CLF but it seems that technically CLF existed, even if not in a completed form, before he returned from training with Green Grass Monk.

Seems to me that unless Chan Heung recognized him as a co-founder it's a gray area that could be argued either way. I think the top ranking players in all branches will need to get together and go over all the available documentation and evidence and make a determination that most are comfortable with although that sounds impossible at this point in time.

T. Cunningham

05-15-2008, 06:17 PM

Terrygrey

05-15-2008, 07:25 PM

Dragon323,

, it was MY idea to push back Jeung Yim's birthday to 1814. But I later changed it to the accepted 1824.

Yuen Hai was GGM Jew Leong's sigung, and how Lau Bun passed it down to him, Yuen Hai was most likely from Vietnam because his last name was pronounce like Nguyen (win). He came to Fut San in Fut San's early stages. Now as we discovered the Hung Sing Kwoon opened in 1851, I obviously have to change my old writing. So from 18 years old until his death, he was a student of Jeung Hung Sing.

But we were never told actually how old Yuen Hai was, or his exact birthdate since that has been lost to time. there are NO records to prove wrong or right. Yes, the birth and death is more along the lines of guesstimation.

But what we do know, and has been confirmed by many hung sings around the world, Yuen Hai was one of the top 3 seinior students.

The only issue here is that i based my infor on the idea that Jeung Hung Sing was born in 1814 and not 1824. hence the 10 year gap.

Classic. The date inconsistencies has been pointed out years ago. Flankey couldn't get his dates right and kept changing the details, yet he just kept going "prove me wrong, prove me wrong". Now we see him admiting he just made things up, and then expects it to be take fact, and if you disagree, he expects you to prove him wrong with evidence, and if an opinion is "confirmed" by few more hung sing opinions then its confirmed fact? Flankey needs to take a crash course in debate and research skills.
And no, flankey. I'm not your one arm bandit friend. And put it this way, I think I have more ideas about who/they kenny is or are than you, so no need to try and make wild accusations, especially no need to ge a flankin tart tui to jump in lol.

Terrygrey

05-15-2008, 07:44 PM

Another thing is flankey needs to to some research on Lee Gar. Does he even know what the system was like? Does he even know the system still exists and who else Lee Yau San taught?

One futsan guys says lee yau san and the flankin puppets jump up and down.

No flankey, I'm not about to tell you all about Lee Gar. Go do your own research, if you can.

Lama Pai Sifu

05-15-2008, 08:04 PM

I nominate Sifu Frank as the Step-Father of the Lower-North American West Coast Chan Hung Buk Sing Choy Lay Fut Ga Association Society.

All hail Sifu Frank! Anyone who can just make up dates and rewrite history deserves to be a benevolent Monarch in my book!!

Just funnin' Sifu Franky-boy! Don't be offended...you know how passionate I am!

Eric Olson

05-15-2008, 08:43 PM

Sure, sometimes they are. But the obvious question (or challenge) would be to state what the agenda/angel is.

Here is an example of government bias in martial arts history. Lama Pai is descended from a "non chinese"/"non han" part of what is now China and from non Han ethnicities mostly. OK, making matters worse, it is associated with XiZhang (Tibet). So when the government issued a history of southern styles they "re wrote" the history of Lama and made Dat Mo in Shaolin teh founder. No, I joke you not!

WHY? Obvious. To make Lama "Chinese", to link it to "Shaolin" (to booster that tourist trap!), to link it to the "gung ren" who are "han", etc etc

That is interesting.

But in the case of CLF, what political agenda is served by saying one Han chinese of correct social class founded it over another Han Chinese of correct social class??

I'm not sure what the agenda might be but I think these are the kinds of questions that people should be asking, rather than taking it on faith that the government historians are independent observers.

Cheers

EO

hskwarrior

05-15-2008, 09:02 PM

what? htowndragon confirms that it says what ive always said....and no one is speaking about what htown said it said! lol!

extrajoseph

05-15-2008, 09:28 PM

Thing is, the top players aren't the ones arguing over lineage....

Not true, Todd. Some of our elders and top players are behind this; they have old scores to settle dating back to the Commuist v Nationalist struggle.

extrajoseph

05-15-2008, 09:44 PM

That is interesting.

I'm not sure what the agenda might be but I think these are the kinds of questions that people should be asking, rather than taking it on faith that the government historians are independent observers.

Cheers

EO

The agenda in this case is not political but personal, from individuals who want to take financial advantage of the popularity of CLF, coupled with some old personal scores to settle.

hskwarrior

05-15-2008, 10:45 PM

mikey boy! i gotcha fatha right here buddy boy! mr funny man!

hskwarrior

05-15-2008, 10:59 PM

cts folks got the clear and green cloud issue, dfw got the choy fook ggm issue, i listed a wrong date sooooo whaaaaat!

extrajoseph

05-16-2008, 12:52 AM

cts folks got the clear and green cloud issue, dfw got the choy fook ggm issue, i listed a wrong date sooooo whaaaaat!

So what? So just admit your mistake and don't turn the mistake into a faith. No big deal.

"This is what we believe in, therefore it must be right", is not the way to handle a mistake.

PS. I am referring to your claim that Jeung Yim founded CLF with Chan Heung. You took this information from Futsan without questioning their motive nor their accuracy. This a simple mistake you can admit, instead of trying to turn it into an article of faith. Many human atrocities in this world are done in the same way.

Not having Jeung Yim as the co-founder does not diminish his worth, nor the glory of your lineage, you have to remember that, Bro.

yutyeesam

05-16-2008, 08:35 AM

Lama Pai Sifu

05-16-2008, 08:49 AM

cts folks got the clear and green cloud issue, dfw got the choy fook ggm issue, i listed a wrong date sooooo whaaaaat!

HA HA HA

How can you compare an obvious misreading of a chinese character to a historical event?

HA HA HA, Clear Cloud.....lol. I see what you were going for there.....OMG! That was so funny, and topical too! And they both have Green....monk, temple....LOL!

Okay Frank, all kidding aside, allow to point this out;

You didn't list a wrong date, you intentionally changed a date so that your story would make better sense. Your credibility as an honest historian is ZERO. You are willing to change facts to fit into the story that YOU want to tell. That is where the problem is here and why no one trusts what you say.

If you have changed facts already, admittedly, then why should anyone believe you?

Don't you recognize the problem with that?

And then, you try to deflect with bad humor in the middle of a serious conversation. When you are unable to win the argument, you switch gears, change the topic or make a joke.

Or you ad an 'ly' or something to someone's name or create a new nickname for them. It's very childish and everyone can see it plainly.

You don't seem like a dumb guy - why not stick to reasonable conversation and keep an open mind? You might make some friends in the process, as opposed to people who 'tolerate' you at best. You'd have a better audience for your efforts if you listed to people as well.

Just a word of advice, take it or leave it.

(I'm sure you will retaliate as a result of this post, however I'm not being mean or sarcastic, just straight-up. I thought you would be able to appreciate that).

Lama Pai Sifu

05-16-2008, 08:53 AM

EJ -
I have a question. I'm curious to know how exactly Futsan HSK can profit from saying that Jeong Yim is the CLF co-founder with Chan Heung?

Is it that big of an issue that it affects their tourism commerce? Will it make that big of a difference on people coming to train with them?

I do not know the politics of the commerce for this, so I'm just curious to know, what's really in it for them to make this up? From an outside perspective, it doesn't seem like much. So, I don't immediately see any motive for Futsan HSK to make false claims.

Not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand the context behind it all.

-123

If you know Chinese people at all, especially Chinese Gung-Fu people, you would realize that the $$$ is not more important than 'face'.

Chinese will lose money if it means saving face.

But, as it is with religion, medicine and many other things, if you can't sit at the top of the mountain because it's already occupied, you either find another mountain to sit on or your build another one.

Not saying Fut San made anything up, I'm just saying that there is always motive.

yutyeesam

05-16-2008, 09:03 AM

If you know Chinese people at all, especially Chinese Gung-Fu people, you would realize that the $$$ is not more important than 'face'.

Chinese will lose money if it means saving face.

But, as it is with religion, medicine and many other things, if you can't sit at the top of the mountain because it's already occupied, you either find another mountain to sit on or your build another one.

Not saying Fut San made anything up, I'm just saying that there is always motive.

Interesting, thank you for the explanation. Who publicly cast the first stone? Whoever did could say a lot.

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 09:04 AM

uhhhh, okay mikey toops! lol. i'll let you tell it! lol.......mikey toops!

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 09:07 AM

mikey, you aren't choy lee fut! n you have no clf teacher.......lol!

dragon323

05-16-2008, 09:15 AM

Hello

hskwarriors; You admit that your information is wrong and that your sources are not correct in this point but do not modify your web pages. That is not good.

What are your sources? Internet ou records?
On page Hungsing.com say:

Jeong Yim born in 1814 and founded school in futsan in 1839, but also say;
Jeong Yim born in 1824 and founded school in futsan in 1851.

That is true and that is a lie? according to your

Perhaps the oral transmission of your school said something different before the trip he made to futsan in 2000 and now says something else?

Maybe Jimmy Ming Leong not received the oral transmission of history by GM Lau Bun and why there are so many changes in your site?

Why the GM Jeong Yim what happened one of his last students and more young people (GM Chan Ngau Sing) and not one of his first muchisimos students?, this is something that your attribute GM Doc Fai Wong, and you say isn´t posible.

There are many more questions, which will make you
Thanks for answering.

Regards.

Lama Pai Sifu

05-16-2008, 09:19 AM

mikey, you aren't choy lee fut! n you have no clf teacher.......lol!

Well, that is true, my teacher has passed away. Didn't you already know that??

Wow, are you laughing that my teacher is dead? Wow, you are quite a guy....

And are you trying to say that either I don't know CLF or my teacher didn't know CLF??? HA HA HA!

Oh yeah, and check the generations....I'm waaaayyyy higher up on the food-chain than you are shifu fa-ranky...so respect your elders! LOL, and go fetch me my shoes while your at it boy! See ya in the park you tubby *****...LOL

What, you think you're the only one who can make fun of people on here??? Sorry buddy, it's not an exclusive club to you; however, most of the people on this thread treat each other with respect; but it seems like all you know is how to be disrespectful and NOT listen to anyone else. The only thing that gets your actual attention is insults...

You are truly a sad person, I do feel sorry for you though. And that's why I'll let you take me to tea when I'm in Frisco.

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 09:28 AM

mike, for someone has no real clf to speak of, you really are a straight up ****head! at the timei wrote that **** no real reseach into our history was done or available in the usa. figuring out the dates was all part of the process of learning the truth. so whati wrote something and listed the wrong date. i dont care what you think. u aren't even clf to me, nor to any other clf person here. u are lama pai. stick to what you know, cus u don't know **** about clf. lol.....you.....a lama guy thinks he can single handely benefit the clf system!!!! omg thats so funny!

Lama Pai Sifu

05-16-2008, 09:33 AM

thinks he can single handely benefit the clf system!!!! omg thats so funny!

What on earth does that mean?? LOL

You are bizarre....ha ha ha

yutyeesam

05-16-2008, 09:37 AM

ANYWAYZZZ...

Who publicly cast the first stone on this whole debate? Whoever did could say a lot.

-123

Brule

05-16-2008, 10:56 AM

It's sad to see that there is so much knowledge on these boards as we can see the amount of information on this thread alone, that people cannot discuss in an adult fashion. But i guess CMA will never get away from this. It's all about who's got the oldest most badest traditional unaltered form that's got the goods. It seems to be all about history and who's version is the right version. If this continues, how far will this art grow? How can you guys continue to separate yourselves from each other and still manage to grow the art? Without progression, how can one improve?

From the videos i've seen on youtube, there are people trying to do what they can to spread their art. I can think of some clips of Lama Pai Sifu and those of Sifu Chen Yong Fa, who do not seem to hold a political agenda in thier videos but have put them there for us to see what CLF is all about.

You can have the baddest form out there that is 100% unaltered, practised the same way it has been since day one, but if you come a callin and i ram my charp choy so far down your throat that i can give you a rectal exam, what good is that form gonna do ya !!!

Of course, this just from someone on the outside lookin in.......

CLFNole

05-16-2008, 11:01 AM

I don't understand why Lama isn't clf? Just because his sifu might have been more well known for lama pai if he knew CLF he knew CLF. It doesn't make sense not to recognize someone as clf if in fact they learned clf.

On another note I don't think anyone has forms that are completely original. To think a form has stayed exactly the same for nearly 200 years let alone 10-20 years is just insane.

cjurakpt

05-16-2008, 11:12 AM

mikey, you aren't choy lee fut! n you have no clf teacher.......lol!

I guess that, by extension, no one else who studied w/CTS "has" any CLF either...

lkfmdc

05-16-2008, 11:19 AM

mikey, you aren't choy lee fut! n you have no clf teacher.......lol!

Frank, you are an asshat and continue to prove it on a daily basis

Chan Tai San has several CLF lineages, but let's just talk about two

CTS - Jyu Chyuhn - Chan Goon Pak - Chan Heung

CTS - Chan Sai Mo - Chan Siu Hung - Chan Heung

IE, VERY LEGIT

Stop talking out of your arse, you make a fool of yourself daily here. I can only thank G'd you aren't in my lineage, I'd be embarassed by you and your antics

lkfmdc

05-16-2008, 11:23 AM

mike, for someone has no real clf to speak of, you really are a straight up ****head!

Frank, you're a moron, and demonstate it daily, don't you realize how bad you make yourself look?

CTS didn't know CLF? LMFAO

CTS would have taken one look at you and how you perform, and DIED OF LAUGHTER

Should we post again the stick incident?
Or, better yet, your excuses that went on for PAGES

What is your lineage again? How FAR are you from Lau Bun? Dude, wake up and smell the po-lei, we are MILES ahead of you lineage wise. so wipe your nose and your arse, comb your hair and show some respect

IDIOT

lkfmdc

05-16-2008, 11:26 AM

I don't understand why Lama isn't clf? Just because his sifu might have been more well known for lama pai if he knew CLF he knew CLF. It doesn't make sense not to recognize someone as clf if in fact they learned clf.

Just look at the lineages I just posted, those aren't CLF lineages? :rolleyes:

Frank, as usual, is adept at sticking his foot in his mouth, and demonstrating his own massive insecurities and inferiority complex.

sanjuro_ronin

05-16-2008, 11:32 AM

LOL @ Lineages !

I can understand debating genetics, but lineages ??

Now, these are some good genes:

CLFNole

05-16-2008, 11:32 AM

lkfmdc

05-16-2008, 11:36 AM

I agree but also saying someone's lineage is "miles" apart from another goes right back to what a lot of us are trying to stop, it is a bit of "my dad can beat up your dad", no?

We all know lineage doesn't really mean all that much besides from where you came from.

OK, then let's put it another way

"in this corner is Chan Tai San, famous in China, studied with top teachers, coach of Guangdong team, coach of Futsan special forces, named living legend, fighter, master, bad arse"

and

"in this corner, Frank" :rolleyes:

CLFNole

05-16-2008, 11:41 AM

Well since you put it that way...

By the way "coach of Futsan special forces", I didn't realize individual cities had their own special forces units. Obviously we are not taking Rambo and machine guns.

lkfmdc

05-16-2008, 11:44 AM

Well since you put it that way...

Exactly :rolleyes:

By the way "coach of Futsan special forces", I didn't realize individual cities had their own special forces units. Obviously we are not taking Rambo and machine guns.

Actually, it is probably my own "linguistic quirk" from the way it is written on sifu's card

The Chinese military had a special forces unit that was stationed and trained in Futsan, I actually doubt it was exclusively Futsan residents, IE more like Annapolis has a naval academy, but most of the naval graduates aren't from the local area

CLFNole

05-16-2008, 11:47 AM

I kind of thought that was what you meant, but reading it at first sounding kind of funny. Made me think of each little city having its own special ops group back in the day. Assassination by rope dart :eek:

cjurakpt

05-16-2008, 12:10 PM

seems like CTS bashing is en vogue everywhere today...

I can tell you that GM Chan Tai Shan never talked about, taught or demonstrated anything as concerned usage of his gung fu in fighting that resembled the sort of "internal skills" that you seem to be talking about ("live / dead", "sticking", etc.)

Well that shows how much he knows about kung fu and doesn't suprise me at all given his (over)holistic MA background.

and

of course, you can say that CTS had no idea of what real gung fu was if you like...

Well, the fact that he does not emphasis Liveness, Sensitivity, Sticking and their relation to combat, does raise my eyebrows a little.
Maybe he is teaching you "gringos" on a need to know basis, just like many other chinese masters are doing as we speak and have done for decades.

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=861563&postcount=79

was there some kind of sale at Penny's on "cheap shots at deceased Grandmasters" I hadn't heard about?

Yao Sing

05-16-2008, 12:10 PM

On the issue of what is there to gain from modifying the history it seems a lot of tourism dollars could be at stake if you could get all the foreign CLF peeps to go to the Futsan Hung Sing school instead of King Mui.

Now about Frank, some of you guys have been here since he was yik-wa-tik or whateveer it was and he was threatening to kill everyone. He has improved a lot since those days and even though he still has some quirks I think he's heading in the right direction.

Troy has been getting some grief even though his comments are in line with the common belief. He admit Chan Heung founded CLF and says Jeong Yim founded the Hung Sing branch of CLF. No problem.

And Frank is admitting his early mistake about the years so if he would just update the website to reflect his current belief everything should be fine. I know it doesn't take long for him to add new pictures etc. so changing text can be done by the time everyone gets done reading this.

That ok Frank?

Lama Pai Sifu

05-16-2008, 12:25 PM

mike, for someone has no real clf to speak of,

??? What are you even talking about?? Like you know what I know??? I trained quite a bit of CLF under my teacher. You've got a lot of nerve, you pudgy little *****...LOL

Don't try to discredit me with your fat mouth full of false truths and fat lies..and hot dogs. You just keep swinging your powerless arms in the air like a good little fat boy. Go play in the park with your friends and let the big people talk...

Oh wait, just like you always say when you insult someone Franklin,
no offense, you all know how passionate I am about my art! Hung for life, I'm a HS Warrior, a Gangsta from the hood, watch out cause I'm keeping it real and my Gung-Fu is better than everyone else's! Yay!!!!

****ing asshat wannabesomebodyimportant...

Its so tiring, listening to people like you.

sanjuro_ronin

05-16-2008, 12:32 PM

seems like CTS bashing is en vogue everywhere today...

and

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=861563&postcount=79

was there some kind of sale at Penny's on "cheap shots at deceased Grandmasters" I hadn't heard about?

Dude, He's an idiot, that is a given.

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 01:29 PM

yadda yadda yadda yadda!!!!!!

Mike you're a blow hard!!!!! You're a freakin nut. You attack and throw blows. But when someone throws them right back you freak the phuck out. LMAO!!! whats wrong with you? are you insecure?

I've been called fat before mikey toops. I could care less. blah blah blah.....i find it funny though.

the rest of your clan is falling on deaf ears. Yeah they can jump to your aid talk sheet to me. But i'm one man, you and your cronies can't touch me. LMAO!!!!!

talk is cheap mikey toops. talk is cheap.

you disappoint me though. you can throw blows, but are a marshmellow when someone strikes back. well, you should have known.....i'm hung sing.......thats how we do things!

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 01:32 PM

i ain't attacking your teacher. never said one thing about your teacher.

i said YOU ain't Choy Lee Fut. you are ALL lama. you move lama, not Choy Lee Fut. yet you think im the only one who thinks so. right? LOL

My sifu taught me right, although i have my opinions on CTS, I have never once aired them.

All my dislike is towards you mikey. everything about you is foul.

but i won't go into that.

I'm not responding to any others here because my issue is with you and only you.

lkfmdc

05-16-2008, 01:33 PM

yadda yadda yadda yadda!!!!!!

That is indeed the quality of most of your posts Frank

are you insecure?

"projection" - go look it up Frank

talk is cheap.

Indeed, it doesn't seem you can afford much more

Nice ducking the entire issue, IE that you are an idiot who talks about things he has no idea about

Stick to trying to explain away the inconsistencies of your history, at leat that is amusing

lkfmdc

05-16-2008, 01:36 PM

although i have my opinions on CTS, I have never once aired them.

Oh go ahead Frank, please do open your mouth YET AGAIN and prove to the world once again what an idiot you are....

Please DO make this "in this corner CTS and in the other corner Frank" because darn it, that WILL be amusing, short, but amusing

The way Mike moves? Well at least he MOVES, what you do requires a different adjective

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 01:48 PM

now, to the rest of you chumps!

Until my sifu and I started researching the Hung Sing history, no other information about our lineage was known until we started digging, asking our high up elders, such as lun chee and my sigung, and other Hung Sing masters around the world.

just as it was when Chan Yiu Chi decided to document their families gung fu history, it too was once passed down word of mouth.

For what ever the reasons, our people never chose to write it down. But their memories were good enough to shed some light into our history.

Yes, in my earliest research (which i haven't updated because the new updated stuff was going into my book) i purposefully listed an incorrect date out of spite for the Chan Family in hopes i'd uncover more information.

For people like dragon 323, or anyone else for that matter, my only fault is that I didn't update my information as my research progressed. yes some of my early writing don't match what I write today. Thats because I learned new things that told me where I had fix them. I just never got back to updating my old or early research.

People are jumping down my throat for a simple incorrect date when people like dfw writes a book explaining a whole list of reasons why the GGM didn't exist, only to turn around and claim he's actually Choy Fook. The Li Iu Ling lineage writes their history on Chan Heung and places him being born in 1815 and not 1805. Chan Koon Paks lineage seems to think Chan Heung passed away in 1888.
Chan family was incorrect when placing Jeung Yim first in 1867 when he was clearly in Fut San operating in 1851. The Li Iu Ling lineage believes Jeung Yim didn't learn from the Green Grass Monk, but feels that the Green Grass Monk is Fong Dai Hung. OMG LOL.

With all this Bull**** going on thats on a grander scale than me not updating my information is just what i said. Bullsheet! But, of course, who else better than to try and clown but Frank......yeah you thought you could!!!!!!

None of you are perfect......none of you. But i know some of you think you are part of some elite race of people......LMAO at that too!!!!!!

And Mikey, what do you think you really know about me and what i do here in SF? Do you know who i know, hang out with, associate with, or anything? how do you know i'm not anything you claim im not? because YOU said so?

Shows you how stupid you really are. Take a look at my lineage..........if you knew then you'd know. But you don't say. LOL!

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 01:50 PM

Everyone.....

lets do the hokey pokey!!!!!!!

you put your left foot in, your put your left foot out......you put your left foot in and get the phuck knocked out!

lets do the hokey pokey!

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 01:51 PM

hey mike,

pudgy wudgy, must be!

hahahahahahahahaha:D

Lama Pai Sifu

05-16-2008, 01:57 PM

yadda yadda yadda yadda!!!!!!

Mike you're a blow hard!!!!! You're a freakin nut. You attack and throw blows. But when someone throws them right back you freak the phuck out. LMAO!!! whats wrong with you? are you insecure?

Again, your attempt to redirect the conversation. I'm not the one who cries "Oh, I fell off a building and I was crippled..blah blah blah, every time someone critiques your videos...

I've been called fat before mikey toops. I could care less. blah blah blah.....i find it funny though.

I'm sure you find it funny though...

the rest of your clan is falling on deaf ears. Yeah they can jump to your aid talk sheet to me. But i'm one man, you and your cronies can't touch me. LMAO!!!!!

Cronies?? Hardly. My classmates happen to be accomplished and have achieved much in the personal and professional lives. While you on the other hand,...

talk is cheap mikey toops. talk is cheap.

No you imbecile, talking is free, not cheap. You are a regular walking 'dime-store' cliche.

you disappoint me though. you can throw blows, but are a marshmellow when someone strikes back. well, you should have known.....i'm hung sing.......thats how we do things!

I dissapoint you? Well, I'm sure you are used to much dissapointment in your life by now, an extremely out of shape guy, who teaches (or tries to) people how to do something that requires physical fitness? No wonder you teach in a park and your cell phone is off every other month...

The sad fact is Franky, YOU NEVER PEAKED! You have been a loud-mouthed fat-ass your whole life! You've been kicked out of your own school so many times, you are an embarrassment to anyone who does CLF.

Your a self admitted liar about history, changing things to suit your own warped and twisted agenda, you disrespect every other CLF person on here, you're crass, obnoxious and rude. Plus, you are a ****-poor excuse for a martial artist, forget a teacher, you're a pitiful martial artists.

Others are nice to you here, only because they are more patient than I am fat-boy! I don't need to take your fat mouth or listen to your fat lies or even fatter insults.

So wipe that chicken fat off your hands and put down the donut and think of another funny Frank response...because it's all for fun, right fatty?

Oh, and YOU ARE NOT HUNG SING, YOU PRACTICE HUNG SING. WHAT YOU ARE...IS AN ABOMINATION.

Oh yeah, 'peace', just funnin' witcha' fatboy!

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 01:57 PM

hey mike,

since you want to attack again and again......

let's talk about your wearing a tupe'.........is that how its spelled?
Is that why you are all bald now? was maintaing the rug getting a little too much for you?

pdgy, fat, idiot, all that.....i'll be all that n more if you like.

But I know i come from a real CLF family, with a REAL CLF history, and REAL CLF FIGHTERS.........a long line of them.

I could care less about your bull mike. you can say anything you like, clown as hard as you like, or what ever. The truth of the matter is if we were to meet, we would know who has real clf or not. then you'd be able to see if i got any real power or not.

lkfmdc

05-16-2008, 01:59 PM

So, let's review

Despite the ENTIRE WORLD recognizes Chan Heung as the founder of CLF, Frank does not

According to Frank, a 12 year old kid created the art he did, which just happens to look like Chan Heung's art and which happens to use Chan Heung's name?

:rolleyes:

Along the way, Frank has constantly shifted the dates to try and keep the story afloat, and when confronted with facts just reverts to "there was no history before"

YOU GIANT IDIOT, of course there was history before, it was just in CHINESE. Maybe if you weren't 20,000 miles removed from the original source you'd have learned some Chinese and been able to learn some of the tradition :rolleyes:

Frank, you are the worst kind of wannabe. Going on about how "gangster" you are and trying to ride Lau Bun's coat tails even when you are 3 generations removed form Lau Bun

You open your big mouth and spew bull**** constantly on here, your ranting about CTS is just the latest, though it may very well be the funniest

NEWSFLASH FRANK! You aren't Lau Bun and the fact that Lau Bun was the first US CLF school doesn't mean a G'd ****ed thing... other than he got a boat before someone else

It means even less about you, your school in the park and your pathetic attempts to legitmize yourself

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 02:02 PM

hey mr. mike toops,

how much you wanna bet that in the CLF world, my names holds more weight than yours does?:rolleyes:

You are a typical loser.

Oh, didn't your wife cheat on you? oh, was that too personal? Im sorry?

hahaha....now watcha blow up.

and yeah i teach in the park, and my phone is off for a day or two, never longer than that, and i change my number alot to avoid people like you trying to call me.

but guess what? the park is free, and when you run out of students, and can't pay your rent, I'll still be teaching at the park......free of rent. you will fade away faster than i would mikey boy.

your east coast style of BS is amusing to this cali boy!

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 02:04 PM

again, Chan Heung is the founder of Chan Family CLF. Buk Sing and Hung Sing do not practice Chan Family CLF. SO Chan Heung would not be OUR founder would he?

Jeung Yim is called the Co-founder because when he came back to Chan Heung, his new material changed CLF as it once was. Since there was TWO CLF's existing at the same time, Jeung Yim is called the Co-founder.

Did I make that up? NO! ask joseph! He knows i didn't.

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 02:06 PM

really? going on about how gangster i am?

What did I say i did? What Gangs have i told you i'm from, or was from? who am i connected to know?

Guess what.........real gangsters don't talk about what they do because of fools like you who run and tell. I never called my self a gangster.

Pls tell me, post it, show me, or just shut the phuck up, but do something about it. show me where i claimed to be a gangster!!!!!!

do it now biatch!

Lama Pai Sifu

05-16-2008, 02:08 PM

now, to the rest of you chumps!

Yes, in my earliest research (which i haven't updated because the new updated stuff was going into my book) i purposefully listed an incorrect date out of spite for the Chan Family in hopes i'd uncover more information.

None of you are perfect......none of you. But i know some of you think you are part of some elite race of people......LMAO at that too!!!!!!

And Mikey, what do you think you really know about me and what i do here in SF? Do you know who i know, hang out with, associate with, or anything? how do you know i'm not anything you claim im not? because YOU said so?

Shows you how stupid you really are. Take a look at my lineage..........if you knew then you'd know. But you don't say. LOL!

Oh My Lord! These are the rantings of an insane person.

This one is the funnies by far :
i purposefully listed an incorrect date out of spite for the Chan Family in hopes i'd uncover more information

Yeah, so you just decided that big ol' Franky was just gonna 'Smoke 'Em Out' and get to the bottom of all this Chan Heung stuff. You were gonna use some 'phy-col-ogy' on 'em by lying.... Riiiight

Holy ****, that's rich. Where do you even keep the balls big enough to say such a thing?? Do you ever read what you write before you press "SUBMIT REPLY"?

This one is good too....what the hell does it even mean?? What's wrong with your brain????

Take a look at my lineage..........if you knew then you'd know. But you don't say. LOL!

I see Franky-Fats, rubbing his hands together and doing his best mad scientist impression..yelling, "Mad I tell you! They are Mad!" and then saying;

None of you are perfect......none of you. But i know some of you think you are part of some elite race of people......LMAO at that too!!!!!!

Frank, you are a sad, pathetic loser. Just look yourself in the mirror and face facts. This forum is all you have. That and that work of fiction you are always talking about. I hope you publish your book. I'll buy it and use it to wipe my ass. That'll be about what it's worth.

lkfmdc

05-16-2008, 02:10 PM

how much you wanna bet that in the CLF world, my names holds more weight than yours does?:rolleyes:

I see that Frank is now on drugs :rolleyes:

Frank, you are NO ONE. Never were anyone, never will be anyone. You are a joke. I went to San Francisco almost every year in the 1990's and spent time with all the sifu there... you were no where to be found.

You don't even have a school, you teach a few misfits in the park.

Your posts REEK of your desperation for recognition and insecurity. You want to be special, not just some loser who fell off a roof, never achieved anything and can't even afford to keep his cell phone on....

Again Frank, you try and ride Lau Bun's coat tails. First of all, YOU ARE NOT LAU BUN. You aren't even his student!

Second of all, even if Lau Bun had 10,000 great students and fighters, we all know you are not one of them

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 02:12 PM

hey ross,

According to Frank, a 12 year old kid created the art he did, which just happens to look like Chan Heung's art and which happens to use Chan Heung's name?

pls show me where i ever said a 12 year old boy created any art? Nothing about Fut San Hung Sing CLF is the same about Chan Family. everything about chan family clf is totally different in every way aside from basic punches.

your ranting about CTS is just the latest, though it may very well be the funniest

my rantings? which ones?

and my class in the park gets so much attention from every part of the world. tourists are always stopping by to take pictures with us.
so your words mean nothing. like always. just hot air.

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 02:13 PM

Frank, you are NO ONE. Never were anyone, never will be anyone. You are a joke. I went to San Francisco almost every year in the 1990's and spent time with all the sifu there... you were no where to be found.

really? thats not what i've been hearing. and from what my Statcounter says who looks for me.

you know its funny, you say im no one, but every part of the world searches for Hung Sing Frank. I sheet you not!

so again,

your bs falls on deaf ears.

lkfmdc

05-16-2008, 02:15 PM

my class in the park gets so much attention from every part of the world. tourists are always stopping by to take pictures with us.

I'm sure tourists see you and say

"dear lord, who is that incredibly fat man with the head the size of a peanut trying to teach children martial arts? Oh my G'd that is so funny, I just have to take a picture!"

Frank, you don't realize how f-in retarded you sound, do you? Only idiots and retarded people try to hold up the fact they have no money, no job and no education as badges of honor....

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 02:15 PM

Second of all, even if Lau Bun had 10,000 great students and fighters, we all know you are not one of them

oh yeah? how would you know? have we fought? how do you know? did someone tell you?

LMAO.....ross keep reaching.

in the words of MR T.........i gotta lotta mo! lotta mo!

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 02:16 PM

I'm sure tourists see you and say

"dear lord, who is that incredibly fat man with the head the size of a peanut trying to teach children martial arts? Oh my G'd that is so funny, I just have to take a picture!"

Frank, you don't realize how f-in retarded you sound, do you? Only idiots and retarded people try to hold up the fact they have no money, no job and no education as badges of honor....

is dat right? and tell me. we are supposed to believe what you say cause of what?

Lama Pai Sifu

05-16-2008, 02:17 PM

hey mr. mike toops,

how much you wanna bet that in the CLF world, my names holds more weight than yours does?:rolleyes:

Well, all I can tell you is that YOU weigh more than me...and probably a few of my friends....lol!

you're name??

HA HA HA. You're PICTURE was removed from the FUT SAN HUNG SING SCHOOL...what about that....fatty!!!!!! It used to be next to Dino S's pic, BUT NO MORE!

HHHHMMMMM, you seem to be getting lighter.....

And when I asked why (because I saw it there in 2006)....they laughed and laughed. Wanna know what they said?? Opps...I forget...they don't speak english and you don't speak cantonese, so you wouldn't understand anyway....

turns out they don't put pictures up of loudmouthed troublemakers....go figure.

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 02:17 PM

who said i don't work, have no money, or no badges of honor?

i got a badge once in the boy scouts.......lmao....im lying.........that was with your sister!

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 02:19 PM

hey mike,

You are truly a sad person, I do feel sorry for you though. And that's why I'll let you take me to tea when I'm in Frisco.

when you're in frisco.........sure....i'll take you to tea.........come on thru.

oh and im not sad, im having my fun with you and laughing about it.

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 02:20 PM

mike,

i can lose weight. you can never grow your hair back.

i think i'm in a better position than you right now.

lkfmdc

05-16-2008, 02:22 PM

really? thats not what i've been hearing. and from what my Statcounter says who looks for me.

you know its funny, you say im no one, but every part of the world searches for Hung Sing Frank. I sheet you not!

LMFAO at anyone who thinks that a counter on their piece of crap free "zoom" web page is an indication that they are a respected part of the Mo Lum

Like I said, you are a pathetically desperate person, grasping at straws.

Does every part of the world also seach for "Fat Funny Frank"? :rolleyes:

Lama Pai Sifu

05-16-2008, 02:26 PM

What, you have a name?? LOL

You are a student of a guy who trained with a guy who trained with Lau Bun. What does that make you?

What does you're 'name' do for you?

Do you get free meals? (Well, actually, I wouldn't be surprised...it sure looks like you do....ZING!)
Do you go to the front of the line at all the swanky clubs or on rides at the amusement park?
Do you get invited to movie premiers?
Do you get swag?

So what does your name mean?? What does it do for you, Mr. CLF Bigshot?
You are a little boy in a fat body, with dreams, or should I say delusions of fame and success.

You see, YOU make YOU-who you are. No one else. Fact is, your teacher and his teachers could have been martial geniuses and they very well might have been....but kung-fu doesn't get transmitted by name, it requires discipline (of which we all know you do not have) and skill (I merely have to look at youtube). It doesn't matter what Lau Bun did, in respect to YOUR skill. YOU are YOU. Why don't YOU accomplish something...? Forget everyone else, YOU are the person on the chopping block here.

Lama Pai Sifu

05-16-2008, 02:27 PM

mike,

i can lose weight. you can never grow your hair back.

i think i'm in a better position than you right now.

Maybe so, but you are still ugly.... HA HA HA

What position would that be? The one where you haven't seen your cock since 1989?

Lama Pai Sifu

05-16-2008, 02:34 PM

It's funny though. Not having hair doesn't seem to effect my martial arts, nor is it indicitive to my level of self discipline.

Uh..but you're fatness on the other hand....hhhmmmm.

I think you are very cute that you mention things like my hair (or lack of it, lol) and you try to talk about my ex-wife (yes, who did cheat on me) like those things have to do with Kung-Fu or martial arts. When you are backed into a corner, we all know you have to dig deep to throw personal attacks at people, because you can't contend with the real issues.

This a martial arts forum, in case you forgot.

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 02:44 PM

ross, have u looked at yourself? u r a little strange looking. why is that?

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 02:50 PM

mike, do u realize your bald head resembles a peenis? all u gotta do is grow a little mohawk. excepts peenises wouldnt have as many lumps like your head!

lkfmdc

05-16-2008, 02:52 PM

The true sign someone has nothing to offer is when they try and throw out personal insults....

More pathetic is when they can't even do it successfully :rolleyes:

Frank, anNyone ever suggested to you that you might have a learning disability? You can't follow a logical train of conversation, can't defend your points intelligently and ramble on about irrelevant crap

Again, you are NO ONE. The fact your teacher's teacher studied with Lau Bun won't get you anywhere. It is meaningless. What counts is YOU. And what have we there?

You have a fat, broke, out of shape, emotionally stunted person who can't pay his cell phone bills and tries to teach out of a park

Dear lord man, your "claim to fame" is that people visit your web page, how pathetic is that? :rolleyes:

I can't say I am at all surprised to find out they booted you out of the school, your are an embarassment.

Lama Pai Sifu

05-16-2008, 02:53 PM

Wow. That's all I have to say, wow.

lkfmdc

05-16-2008, 02:55 PM

do u realize your bald head resembles a peenis?

considering you haven't seen yours since 1989, my only conclusion must be that you are spending a lot of time in Castro :rolleyes:

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 02:57 PM

mikey, ur funny. maybe your wife cheated cus she couldn't find yours either!......but, wasi the one who attacked first? nah, that would be u. so get over yourself.

lkfmdc

05-16-2008, 02:58 PM

Yao Sing

05-16-2008, 03:00 PM

OMG where to start. Well I tried to head this off before it really blew up and even said some nice stuff about Frank which makes me look like a fool now.

if you knew then you'd know.

Now this is the most insightful comment I've ever seen. So true, so true. If you knew then you'd know. Can't argue with logic like that. :D

again, Chan Heung is the founder of Chan Family CLF. Buk Sing and Hung Sing do not practice Chan Family CLF. SO Chan Heung would not be OUR founder would he?

Actually, no. And everyone has been trying to explain that to you but you're either too stubborn or too stupid to understand. You see, before a style can branch it has to already exist. In this case there are 3 branches of the style created by Chan Heung. There is Buk Sing CLF, Hung Sing CLF and what you call Chan Family CLF. Notice anything common about the three?

If you said all are CLF then you're correct.

Jeung Yim is called the Co-founder because when he came back to Chan Heung, his new material changed CLF as it once was. Since there was TWO CLF's existing at the same time, Jeung Yim is called the Co-founder.

No, only you call Jeung Yim the co-founder. Can you specify what the new material was that changed CLF so profoundly?

So 2 schools of CLF equals to CLFs? How many CLFs are there now?

you know its funny, you say im no one, but every part of the world searches for Hung Sing Frank.

I'm sure Jeffrey Dahmer gets a lot of searches too or Charles Manson. That doesn't mean it's a good thing.

I say continue your research, organize it and show what you have with complete documentation and people will take you serious and either accept it or show you where you're wrong. Think you can handle it?

Lama Pai Sifu

05-16-2008, 03:04 PM

Actually, yes. You were the first one to say something..

You're silly comment about me not being CLF and not having a CLF sifu..remember?

Now what do you have to say for yourself??

And I don't know why you think I am upset or freaking out....you are a whimsical distraction today, nothing more nothing less. Normally, I don't even comment on what you write, I leave that up to the rest of your non-fans.

There is nothing for me to be upset about. You are an idiot, and I have known that for some time, so there are no surprises for me here. It's true, I do feel a bit sorry for you from time to time, but that is all.

You see, idiots don't know that they are idiots. But I acknowledge that there is a place in this world for everyone, both scholars and idiots alike.

Be well Frank, I've got to be going.

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 03:07 PM

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 03:10 PM

actually mike, u started ragging on me long before u got kwa sow chopped! dont fake funk. see ya!

Lama Pai Sifu

05-16-2008, 03:16 PM

are you two seriously mentally disabled? u have been personaly attacking me first. s o why when u receive a hung sing kwa sow chop u fall apart and claim foul? what? u cant take any or your own medicine? you spoiled biacth ass rich kids! lol....hung sing!

We received a hung sing kwa sow chop? Hmmm when would that have been?

OH..you are naming your insults now?? Is that how it's done in your school? Those are Hung Sing insults??

I see. Do your elders know how you throw your school's name around in a demeaning way (to others)? Do they know how you disgrace them with your verbal diarrhea?

And who's falling apart?? No one is claiming foul, try to say anything you want about my personal life...I could care less.

Rich kids?? Pffsstt, I wish. And everyone thinks Ross grew up rich??? Hardly,..his parents lived in an old apartment in forest hills, he didn't have a car until he was in his mid 20's (and it wasn't anything to speak of) and his school is not a palace. Where do you get this from??

Where's your pic in the Hung Sing School.....Mr. Hung Sing Frank????
How's your status in your own school....Mr. Hung Sing Frank????

Why is your picture down? Why are you kicked out of your school,...yet again???

You see, THESE are not personal issues, they are pertinent issues. They have to do with your martial arts and your character.

Dude, you are nothing but a hack. You can't do....so you try to write....LOL

Yao Sing

05-16-2008, 03:25 PM

Do your elders know how you throw your school's name around in a demeaning way (to others)? Do they know how you disgrace them with your verbal diarrhea?
<clip>
Why are you kicked out of your school,...yet again???

Actually his Sifu is in Futsan and doesn't speak or read English so I doubt he has any clue about all this.

Now his previous Sifu is a different story.

kup choi

05-16-2008, 03:26 PM

I couldn't agree more, from what I've seen of Franks posts he is a disgrace to his elders. To think that he actually teachers CLF is scary :o

Lama Pai sifu, love the clips on youtube, good work.

cjurakpt

05-16-2008, 03:41 PM

you spoiled biacth ass rich kids! lol....hung sing!
I have known Mike and Dave for almost 20 years; neither of then grew up as "rich" kids: Dave grew up decidedly middle class, and has been paying his own way since we got out of college; Mike actually voluntarily walked away from a not insignificant "family fortune" based on personal principles; both have experienced not insignificant personal/family tragedy in their lives, but you wouldn't know it because they don't feel the need to justify themselves based on past obstacles they have overcome; bottom line is that everything they have they have worked for themselves, and that is a fact, because I know exactly how much each had in their pockets back ~1990 (let's just put it this way - I was the one doing the driving...hey Mike - remember how you taught me to jump the solenoid w/2 screw drivers because my car never started when it rained, LOL?); it is to both their credit that they have established and maintained schools that are successful without compromising the material that they teach

Dave is a trained researcher and has done much original research on the history of CTS's Lama; Mike, without formal training, has taken it upon himself to go to the source to obtain information about the history of our teacher's CLF well beyond what anyone else has done in our "group"; both have learned enough Chinese to be functional in that context; neither has ever personalized what they have learned and used it irresponsibly;

Dave and Mike continue to re-invent themselves as businessmen and as martial artists; neither is so engrossed in their own self-image that they feel threatened when they are exposed to new and improved information; they adapt to changing environments, whereas you look in the rear-view mirror and think you are watching the road up ahead;

I am proud to call them my brothers and appreciate that they still encourage me to participate in CTS-related activities, despite my having gone my own way more than 15 years ago;

I've had lost of experience with guys like you Frank - you play the street card when talking to the scholars and act the scholar on the streets; unfortunately, your lack of training in any sort of critical thinking leaves you ill equipped to converse on par with people who are actually educated and who participate in reasoned and structured discourse on a regular basis; even when Yao Sing offers you a more than reasonable way of correcting your previous errors you don't even respond

face it Frank: your self-identity is so tied into being Hung Sing that you can't afford psychologically to even consider the possibility that it's anything less than what you necessarily have to believe it is in order to have some sort of stability in your life; that inherently makes you a bad researcher, because your results will be skewed by emotional preference (e.g. - misrepresenting information to "smoke out" other people); and then you use the fact that you have passion (translation: unresolved anger issues) as the get out of jail free card whenever you write something in the heat of the moment

what's most unfortunate is that, if you were at least willing to understand and address your own short comings, you would probably make a great contribution to the body of CLF knowledge; meaning that, instead of all the bluster about how you are so authentically street, you might realize that to be a good researcher it helps to actually get trained in how to do it systematically and relatively objectively and use your MA as a springboard to improve yourself educationally - but that would mean you couldn't fall back on the whole "I'm so down" safety net;

and BTW, please, do illuminate us w/you perspective on CTS - that would be interesting...

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 03:45 PM

kicked out of my school? picture down? im in many pics on my sifu's website. n here's how retarded and stupid u are.......my sifu calls me everyday, n sees me bout 2-3 days a week. i was with him when we protested cnn here in sf recently. i was with him in our charity drive for the hung mun ghee gung tong. so, wrong. u failed! miserably!

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 03:54 PM

hahaha....mike. u shouldn't speak without knowing what u are talking about. i was with sifu today and everyother day. so now what? and to kup choi.......whatever!

Yao Sing

05-16-2008, 03:55 PM

Maybe you could explain the Bai Si to the guy in Futsan? Or am I mistaken?

Yao Sing

05-16-2008, 04:00 PM

Frank's Bai Si. (http://www.hshlk.zoomshare.com/album/Sifu%20Frank%27s%20Pictures/images/f7e8c3e347eda0cef01bc37c70f09518_11878429260/:album?css=http://www.hshlk.zoomshare.com/lib/style/helvetica.css&css=http://www.hshlk.zoomshare.com/lib/style/type_album.css&css=http://www.hshlk.zoomshare.com/files/custom.css)

The caption says "Sifu Frank Taking Sifu Lok as his new sifu"

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 04:02 PM

man some people are sooooo long winded, while others seek to attack to draw attention away from your own insecurities. disgrace or no disgrave ya'll know who i am! lol......oh and what can't i do again mike?

lkfmdc

05-16-2008, 04:03 PM

are you two seriously mentally disabled?

Frank calling anyone mentally disabled? Oh the irony :rolleyes:

People keep saying I am rich? Wow, I have to find that money, must be around here somewhere?

Or it's just the classic paranoid ramblings of someone who has nothing and can't accept personal responsibilities for their own failures.

lkfmdc

05-16-2008, 04:05 PM

Actually his Sifu is in Futsan and doesn't speak or read English so I doubt he has any clue about all this.

Now his previous Sifu is a different story.

Well, Mike just was in Futsan and reports that the picture got taken down, so I guess that makes TWO sifu who have disowned Frank :rolleyes:

lkfmdc

05-16-2008, 04:08 PM

disgrace or no disgrave ya'll know who i am! lol......

yes, we all know who you are, you are the clown who tries to ride Lau Bun's coat tails and makes a fool of himself daily, IE a disgrace to his lineage

:rolleyes:

Lama Pai Sifu

05-16-2008, 04:09 PM

Yes, and his picture has been taken down from the Fut San Hung Sing Choy Lay Fut Gwoon.

And if he was so "somebody", why wouldn't he be up here??? Here is where the 'important' people in the Hung Sing Gwoon are...but where is Frank???

Pic 1 (http://gallery.mac.com/kungfu531#100037/IMG_0497_2_2&bgcolor=black)

Pic 2 (http://gallery.mac.com/kungfu531#100037/IMG_0497_2&bgcolor=black)

And Franks's pic was up on another wall...but alas, it is down now.

So what happened?? They would dare take down Frank's Pic...but isn't he the modern day patriarch of CLF??

HA HA HA, there are even pictures of me up in the Hung Sing School....but no pics of Frank?? Hmmm, and according to Franky Franklin, I'm not even 'anyone' in CLF....

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 04:11 PM

yao sing, with blessings from my sifu,,,,that is none of your business.

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 04:15 PM

and who are guys that i have to explain my coonection to fut san. one thing is for sure, i was never kicked out. for those of u who think u got a clue......try again!

Yao Sing

05-16-2008, 04:18 PM

I know and you're going to kick my arse next time I'm in SF. Hey, I tried to help you out.

You're just too confusing.

BTW, none of it is anyone's business but you bring it all to the public through you comments here. You want to be in the limelight but then when you are you tell people it's none of their business. Want to keep your life private keep it off the Internet.

Personal insults to other Kung Fu brothers definitely won't keep your private life out of the public.

So are you back with Dino again or is that a private matter? Just wondering.

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 04:19 PM

whether or not my pic was taken down, i will always be connected to fut san since my sifu is a student there as well. get a clue!

Lama Pai Sifu

05-16-2008, 04:19 PM

.oh and what can't i do again mike?

Oh, I don't know.... watch yourself take a ****??? Can you do that??

So what happened with you and the Fut San School, huh, Mr. CLF?? Mr. I'm Hung Sing??

Do you want ME to tell you??? Or would you like to just tell everyone here instead about your 'falling out' (Putting it nicely)

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 04:23 PM

um, i am on the hung sing fut san website, on hung sing fut san poster and in all the books. but regardless ifi dropped my fut san sifu, i will always be hung sing biatches!

Lama Pai Sifu

05-16-2008, 04:25 PM

Wow, you really think you are fighting a war between yourself and all of us. You really need to seek some help. I'm not even joking, I'm completely serious. I am sad for you.

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 04:26 PM

mike u aint hung sing, u are a tourist that went to fut san. d ont over inflate ur ego! fool

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 04:37 PM

in fut san there is no fall out. i don't have the money to back. gm d. salvatera and i have resolved our issues, so yes! but the details of our old fall out will always be none of ur business mike!

lkfmdc

05-16-2008, 04:38 PM

whether or not my pic was taken down, i will always be connected to fut san since blah blah blah!

From this post it seems pretty obvious that his pic was indeed taken down and it isnt a huge stretch to figure out WHY

The rest is just more of Frank's excuses and double talk :rolleyes:

lkfmdc

05-16-2008, 04:40 PM

So are you back with Dino again or is that a private matter?

When Frank got kicked out of the school last time, did he see his shadow? Should we expect a long winter?

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 04:43 PM

go ahead mike. lets hear ur fairytale of what went down. but first, u should know, dfw spoke to my sifu in fut san for me a few times. no problems that i knew of.

lkfmdc

05-16-2008, 04:47 PM

I wonder what they'd think if they knew you were posting like a fool on here? You know, Mike and I can arrange for that to happen. I wonder what they'd think of you talking trash about CTS?

For that matter, I have hing-dai who actually know the Lau/Liu/Lew family.. wonder what the family would think of how you toss around Lau Bun's name while carrying on like an infant?

Yao Sing

05-16-2008, 04:48 PM

Frank, I know how important it is to you to be back with Sifu Dino. Good luck.

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 05:01 PM

a phone call was all it took......mikey! y u wanna mislead these people? the only photos fut san has of me are personal photo's, i never submitted my head shot like my sifu and the dai sihing of our school. so u are lying to the masses mikey!

seisei

05-16-2008, 05:01 PM

when i was in futsan i saw sifu dinos picture and his most senior student sifu hannibal
and hannibals student sifu dan so i also asked where was sifu franks photo they had said that he never submitted one at the time of posting but was a student and had wondered when he would return.if he is back with sifu dino is unknown to me
m

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 05:17 PM

thanks yao sing. it was very important to fix our issues. he will be my sifu for life! an d mike, nice try, no cigar!

Lama Pai Sifu

05-16-2008, 05:33 PM

stop making is seem like I have some personal vendetta against you. In all honesty, you are a very insignificant person in my world (or the world of martial
Arts for that matter)

I could care less who you do or do not train with. I could care even less who kicked you out or how many times. Or whether or not you lived up to your promises to your new sifu in fut San. Whatever, just fun to watch the big man squirm a bit and avoid the issue for a little while.

You are a clown frankie...just go ahead and ask anyone. See ya later, chief.

hskwarrior

05-16-2008, 05:50 PM

haaha. i was fut san before i went to fut san. regardless of which sifu, he xiang is my fut san sigung. yes, i couldnt go back to fut san, but am blessed yet because ill learn fut san forms thru sifu dino. mike, ur the clown. seriously!

T. Cunningham

05-16-2008, 06:48 PM

Hey! You can say

???

****ing

on this forum?!?!?

Lama Pai Sifu

05-16-2008, 06:50 PM

Hey! You can say

on this forum?!?!?

Yes, I can....so can anyone.

T. Cunningham

05-16-2008, 07:22 PM

Yes, I can....so can anyone.

Well out****ing standing!! Thought something was strange when I got edited for writing "****ed", but you got ****ing through the filters.

....ok.....ok..... I think I got it out of my system.....

kup choi

05-17-2008, 04:31 AM

Frank, do yourself a favor and take all of your video footage off the net, it's an embarrassment to you and to CLF :D

Terrygrey

05-17-2008, 07:40 AM

Yes, in my earliest research (which i haven't updated because the new updated stuff was going into my book) i purposefully listed an incorrect date out of spite for the Chan Family in hopes i'd uncover more information.

For people like dragon 323, or anyone else for that matter, my only fault is that I didn't update my information as my research progressed. yes some of my early writing don't match what I write today. Thats because I learned new things that told me where I had fix them. I just never got back to updating my old or early research.

And Mikey, what do you think you really know about me and what i do here in SF? Do you know who i know, hang out with, associate with, or anything? how do you know i'm not anything you claim im not? because YOU said so?

Shows you how stupid you really are. Take a look at my lineage..........if you knew then you'd know. But you don't say. LOL!

Classic. Just classic. Intentionally putting out false information, making things up and hopinh no one catches him. And if they do, the old "prove me wrong, prove me wrong" Disgusting.

Flanky, the point is your research is good for being topic for a stupid joke, but not any serious consideration. And it appears like you are behaving like a clown, whether you realise it or not.

If Deeeeennnnoooooooo is supporting your stools then may be should take his "stuff" like a joke as well.

dragon323

05-17-2008, 08:38 AM

Hello

hskwarrior say: "People are jumping down my throat for a simple incorrect date"
but is not a simple incorrect date is one and another and another and another......

And all your conclusions are based on these mistakes, not modify or errors nor the conclusions that those mistakes livelihood.

"Until my sifu and I started researching the Hung Sing history, no other information about our lineage was known until we started digging,"

Is not true; my lineage also comes from GM Yuen Hai and GM Chan Ngau Sing and I have been forwarded the story of Hung Sing before you and your Master go to Futsan.

You still unaswared my questions questions about transmissions in your school.

Regards.

Lama Pai Sifu

05-17-2008, 09:12 AM

"Until my sifu and I started researching the Hung Sing history, no other information about our lineage was known until we started digging,"

Riiiight. So until super-slueth Frankly started to research, NO HISTORY existed. I guess you taught those guys in Fut San a thing or two....lol

Hey..if there was no history.....HOW did Frankey come up with it?? No info was known, how did Franklin get it? HHHmmmmm

What the hell were those Fut San people thinking this whole time? Not writing down their own history and ****.....

Good thing Frank came along...whew! What would the Hung Sing school have done without him???

seisei

05-17-2008, 09:21 AM

i just want to say that these different forums are hilarious,understand that this statement is not directed to anyone in particular but to everyone, when i was in junior high school 7-9 th grades this was around 1957 or so but the things said here are what we used to call capping sessions meaning who can make the most fun or ridicule someone else, it was really meant as fun for example they would talk about someones mama or sister trying to see who would break first,the one who broke first (get mad)was the loser.love this stuff keep up the good work.love this stuff.
m

T. Cunningham

05-17-2008, 10:09 AM

Not true, Todd. Some of our elders and top players are behind this; they have old scores to settle dating back to the Commuist v Nationalist struggle.

Really? Where might this be coming from and to what end?

Terrygrey

05-17-2008, 10:10 AM

Hey..if there was no history.....HOW did Frankey come up with it?? No info was known, how did Franklin get it? HHHmmmmm

Maybe flanky flanking flank made some stuff up lol

Good thing Frank came along...whew! What would the Hung Sing school have done without him???

Maybe not look so stupid.

Terrygrey

05-17-2008, 10:20 AM

[QUOTE=Yao Sing;861705]OMG where to start. Well I tried to head this off before it really blew up and even said some nice stuff about Frank which makes me look like a fool now.

Actually, no. And everyone has been trying to explain that to you but you're either too stubborn or too stupid to understand. You see, before a style can branch it has to already exist. In this case there are 3 branches of the style created by Chan Heung. There is Buk Sing CLF, Hung Sing CLF and what you call Chan Family CLF. Notice anything common about the three?

If you said all are CLF then you're correct.

[QUOTE]

Exactly the point. Did you try to understand that, flanking flanky?

The other thing is if Deeennnoooo "researched" the junk that you put out (yeah, along with you Mr hung sing flanking flanky), including endorsing the lies you made up (changing dates blah blah), then deeennnnoooo probably has zero credibility as a historian, but maybe good repute as a joker.

hskwarrior

05-17-2008, 10:36 AM

in my own defense

This forum really is filled with nuts. Some feel they are elite, when the total opposite is true. Some want to ride the band wagon, why? I could care less. When i first joined this forum, i intentionally acted like a ***** because i wanted to see what people actually knew about CLF history to see if i could learn more. my intentions was to shake up the tree and see what falls out. look at all the nuts now!

However, the few on this forum who try to discredit me are nothing but jokes. And I laugh at their attempts. I understand people don't like or can't swallow how strong i am in my beliefs, whatever they may be. Or that I won't back down while others keep trying to prove me wrong. Well, what they don't realize is every single time they attack I get stronger. If I am shown where I'm wrong and fix it, i am then that much stronger.

I love how people like dave ross (who's been a running joke on the forum for a long time) and how Mike P. all try and gang up on me so others don't see their own faults. People like this attack, and when they get a response they don't like, they claim foul! You guys say I'm not a gangster blah blah blah.......well, if i was a gangster, do you think I'd publicize it on the internet? What gangs have a bragged being with? Show me where I bragged about being a gangster. You sound so dumb!

Okay, Mike brought up the fact that I did not fulfill my obligations to my new sifu in fut san. Why, because unlike him, i don't have parents to fall back on when I need money. I couldn't return to Fut San but that was no biggie because I get what I can't from my first and only real sifu (Dino Salvatera). I have no shame in this, nor did i do anything wrong. period.

I'll explain it this way. I never asked for a new sifu in fut san. I was given one. Plain and simple. In my book, GM Dino Salvatera is my only sifu. I only went to fut san to visit the birthplace of our gung fu. Our gung fu, not chan family gung fu and was GIVEN a sifu.

Now, in regards to history. Until my sifu and I began documenting the history that has always been orally passed down within our lineage, there was NO written information in ENGLISH on Jeung Hung Sing or his direct lineage at all. So, we were the first to document it and put it on the internet. I am not Chan Family, so what they had in their records about MY founder was only secondary to me. I personally contacted and corresponded with other Hung Sing masters over many years to cross check the Hung Sing history as they knew it and to learn things i didn't already know. My old writing is just that, my OLD writing that hasn't been updated.

Actual dates were something that we had to deduce on our own since even according to the Chan Family that their own records were filled with wrong dates and information. Most of the written historical information came from Chan Yiu Chi, during the 3rd generation of Chan Family CLF. Even Joseph said its possible Chan Yiu Chi could have been biased, and since the latter is an actual blood relative, it makes sense he would glorify his grandfather as anyone of us would if it were ours.

Writing our history down was NEVER that important to us. I've been doing HSCLF since 81/82 and only until the mid 90's did I start to want to know more about Jeung Hung Sing. First it started like this.....
Who was Jeung Yim?
How and why was he called Hung Sing?
where was he from?
How old was he when he first started?

How Long did he train with Chan Heung?
Who was the Green Grass Monk?

and so forth. So I set out to see what I could learn. I will be the first to admit, we all believed Chan Heung was our founder until we started asking questions. The more questions we asked, the more we realized "hey wait a minute, if Jeung Yim went back to Chan Heung and shared what he learned with the Green Grass Monk, then they began adding in some of it, doesn't that make Jeung Hung Sing a co-founder of sorts?"

In regards to Jeung Yim's birthday, he was 69/70 years old when he died. When we counted backwards from his death in 1893, we got the birthdate of 1824. When we added in the fact that jeung yim was 12 when he first went to Chan Heung, 1824 + 12 =1836! In 1836, Chan Heung launched a new gung fu system that was only in its early developmental stages. So when you know that Jeung Yim only stayed for 5 years, that makes it 1841 when he left Chan Heung to go to the Green Grass Monk.

being born in 1824, and at the age of 17, that would make the year 1841 right? So, from 17-25 years old Jeung yim stayed with the green grass monk. that would be the years 1841-1849. And according to some writing, around that time there were TWO CLF's, Chan Heung's and Jeung Hung Sings.

To those who think I will fabricate something, you are completely and utterly WRONG. For example, when the idea that Jeung Hung Sing was killed young after being ambushed during a trip he was making to see Chan Heung I almost believed it because who knew the truth. That was until i back dated Chan Ngau Sing's death from 1926 and based on how old he was at the time of his death, I came to realize that the above story about Jeung Hung Sing's death was not the truth. Chan Ngau Sing wasn't even alive then.

Why you may ask? Because Chan Ngau Sing was born in 1864, and if Jeung Hung Sing died early, than teaching Chan Ngau Sing was plain out of the question. There are many rumors in hung sing about this or that and I haven't posted them because I can't get anyone to verify them. So they stay in the background for a while.

When DFW printed in his book that the Green Grass Monk was a fake, I went out and discovered more information on him. Ultimately, DFW changed his original course only to claim that Ching Cho was in fact Choy Fook. When he said there was NO Chan Family village, we proved he was wrong since there was a village in King Mui where everyone was a Chan. And when DFW tried to claim that Jeung Hung Sing was just an average student who came in the latter stages of CLF's development, I proved that was incorrect.

Now, when all claim that Green Grass Monk was a myth, I discovered that stemming from the Southern Shaolin temple there was only one green grass monk. Hung Ga, Shaolin, and Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut are the only systems that make mention of the Green Grass Monk. 3 systems, not just one talk about this mythical person. The first two say he was the acting abbott and Chief gung fu instructor of the southern shaolin temple after Gee Sim, in charge of 108 fighting monks, and devised the Lohan halls for graduating students. And, for Premier Zhou En Lai to personally instruct Hung Sing disciple Chen Yilin to write the "100 years of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon beginning to end" and NOT to leave out the Green Grass Monk. To me, that says the Green Grass Monk was more than just a myth.

People from the Chan Family lineage claimed that Jeung Yim was just a student under Chan Heung who got well known. If we let it be, we would have never discovered that Jeung Yim helped develop CLF, that he was the founder of his own version of CLF, and that jeung yim only learned the most earliest version of CLF. Or, that Jeung Yim was in fact present in 1851 with his own school and not 1867 like they wanted to paint that picture to be.

continued

hskwarrior

05-17-2008, 10:37 AM

If we left it to the Chan Family lineage, we would have never learned the Jeung Yim first learned Lee Ga as a young boy from Lee Yau San. We would have been led to believe Chan Heung was Jeung Yim's only teacher and most influential at that. But, today we know this to be untrue and that the green grass monk was jeung yim's most influential sifu because when he went to fut san, it wasn't CLF that he was teaching, he didn't learn all that much in the 5 years he was under chan heung. Since he spent 8 years under Ching Cho, and got pretty much everything, it makes more sense that he would be teaching Fut Ga with a Chan Family CLF twist making his system Choy Ga, Lee ga, and Fut Ga while Chan Heung was just Choy and Lee.

With a system that took the whole life time of its founder (chan heung) to develop how much do you really think Jeung Yim learned in the short 5 years of its birth? anyways.

So, when Joseph and the rest of the Chan's tried to claim chan heung was the first to use Glorious Victory Hung Sing, I pointed out that the two Hung Sing's (chan heung's Hung Xiong and Jeung Yim's Hung Sing) were NOT the same Hung Sing's so that claim of it being used first by the Chan Family in Fut San was cleared up. Chan Heung used Great Sage Hung, while Jeung Yim used Hung Victory/ Glorious Victory. the two are obviously NOT the same.

LOL. See what you don't realize, even during Chan Yiu Chi's days CLF brothers were not UNITED, because it was another CLF master that killed Lau Chung (hung sing Kwoon) for the money offered by the government. So i guess he broke Chan Heung's rules huh? This CLF master beheaded Lau Chung and is said to be the reason Chan Yiu Chi stopped teaching CLF for a while. In fact, based on some things i've read, it seems the Chan Family was upset that Jeung Hung Sing over a Chan Family school, took down their name and used his own.

See, while the Chans claims Jeung Yim was one of their strongest soldiers, it makes me wonder because while Chan Heung was busy developing and promoting his new system, Jeung Yim was busy for the next 8 years learning the Fut Ga system, NOT spreading CLF like they wish us to believe. When Jeung Yim went to Fut San in 1849, he joined the Hung Mun and was busy with revolutionary activities, not worrying about spreading CLF. Jeung Hung Sing knew more Fut Ga than he did Chan Heung's CLF.

The CLF name got attached to Jeung Yim's gung fu long before most of us here were even a thought. So today, Jeung Yim's lineage carries the CLF name. does it really matter? No. Not really. Why? because Hung Sing CLF people know we have NOTHING in common with Chan Family CLF. Not move for move, movement, essence, style, aggression, fighting, NOTHING. Except for the basics Jeung Hung Sing learned within those first 5 years.

People here act like Chan Heung CREATED CLF. CLF is comprised of elements of other systems. Its the real MMA of old. Elements of Choy Ga, Lee Ga, and Fut Ga are all over CLF today. And all those systems are separate from one another. Chan Heung didn't create the CLF's 10 seeds, they all pre-existed long before his time especially when they can be found in other styles. He didn't create the 5 animals, accept for the 9 dragon trident, chan heung didn't created any new weaponry that didn't pre date him. Although they may have inspired him, wooden dummies were not his own creation.

anyways, so when people like dave ross, and Mike P. ask me "what have you done Frank?" Well, that's easy. For one, I beat the odds of a future in a wheel chair for life and returned to gung fu as i predicted!!!! And, my personal story has touched and affected a good number of people who had such traumatic spinal injuries and have even inspired someone to walk when they were told they too would never! I've taught severely disabled people Choy Lee Fut and showed them how to use it to their advantage effectively. I've researched and documented my findings on the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon lineage. I'm the first person to research and document the Lau Bun lineage. I'm an avid promoter of the Fut San Hung Sing lineage.

I'm the first Caucasian to make it this far in both the SF Chinese Community and within the Lau Bun lineage of Hung Sing. When NO other NON CHINESE faces are allowed into certain places in Chinatown, I am allowed in. My white face.

And when it comes to CLF as a WHOLE, I have been contacted by members of all three principal lineages of CLF and complimented on my quest to promote a more united CLF. With people like who are on this forum, it makes it difficult because the forum seems like an insane asylum with certain key players. Myself included at times. My personal quest to research and promote the Hung Sing family has earned me respect within other Hung Sing schools, so much so that some have even made me an honorary president without even knowing me personally but know me through the other hung sing people who talk good about me and what i'm doing.

In regards to Fut San and me being a current student there. Well, since I can't afford to go back every year like some, it's possible they dropped me because of failing to uphold my duties as a bai-see'd student of Lok Gee Hung. Does that make any difference? NONE AT ALL. First I am from Hung Sing, the Lau Bun lineage. Two, my sifu (d. Salvatera) is a current student of Fut San Hung Sing, and i will receive all i need through him. So i'm not out in the cold like some of you think. There was NO fall out with me and Fut San, in fact DFW called my sifu there for me a few times and he's waiting for me to go back.

The fall out with me and GM Salvatera was nothing but a misunderstanding. That is why I am back with him today.

So, you asked me what have I done? I've researched, been commended, documented, fought, won competitions, posted our history on the net, posted videos or our honored Hung Sing family, reached out and re-emerged the Yuen Hai lineage of Fut San Hung Sing CLF within the HSCLF community, taught disabled people to use CLF, teach my gung fu in the park, beat incredible odds and returned to CLF and did what MOST CANNOT DO! i've broken down doors others only wish they could walk through and working on a line of books. Good or bad, my face is synonymous with the Lau Bun lineage, people all over the world search for "Hung Sing Frank" or "Hung Sing Sifu Frank" thanks to this forum, my writings, and my promotions of our system.

So. when i look back, I CAN say, i've done some things both good and bad for CLF. Controversy brings us out to the forefront for attention, brotherhood shows the rest of the world we're human, and arguing shows our dedication and willingness to stand up for what we believe in. especially when some of you say "you're Not Lau Bun" (of course, im not even chinese) that don't make you nothing. Well, Lau Bun knew his sheet well, Sigung Jew Leong knew his sheet well, and so does my Sifu (GM Salvatera). Personally, I have been fighting on the streets since i was a young boy, and when I get the opportunity to include fighting concepts and strategies handed down from my elders to add into my own......i'm taking it. Under the American Hung Sing Kwoon, I am blessed to be in the third generation, because im not that far away from our American founder Lau Bun.

And, do we care that much about the whole "Co-founder" thing? no not really. Its you guys who are riding this out. The more we learn about Jeung Hung Sing, the more we realize how little he had to do with Chan Heung. In fact, when Fut San was asked about Chan Heung, the response was "what does he have to do with us?" This tells me that Chan Heung had very little to do with the development of Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut.

And, when you ask again, I can say, "I've done a few things"

hskwarrior

05-17-2008, 10:50 AM

really kup choy? take it down? why cause you said so? come see me first so we can talk about it up close.

i'm not worried about how you feel. put up your own and lets see how you look.

all you suckas, if you talk about me being fat, or move whatever.......if you can't come back from a spinal cord injury that left you paralyzed from the waist down, as i did, you can miss me with your bs.

all talk, all bs. all of you who hide behind your computers too. LMAO.

kup choi, take it down for me.

Terrygrey

05-17-2008, 10:51 AM

in my own defense
When i first joined this forum, i intentionally acted like a ***** because i wanted to see what people actually knew about CLF history to see if i could learn more. my intentions was to shake up the tree and see what falls out. look at all the nuts now!

What an excuse, flanky

Okay, Mike brought up the fact that I did not fulfill my obligations to my new sifu in fut san. Why, because unlike him, i don't have parents to fall back on when I need money. I couldn't return to Fut San but that was no biggie because I get what I can't from my first and only real sifu (Dino Salvatera). I have no shame in this, nor did i do anything wrong. period.

I'll explain it this way. I never asked for a new sifu in fut san. I was given one. Plain and simple. In my book, GM Dino Salvatera is my only sifu. I only went to fut san to visit the birthplace of our gung fu. Our gung fu, not chan family gung fu and was GIVEN a sifu.
Nice loyalty to your sifus?

Cut the stupid excuses flanky. You intentionally put out lies and false information, tried to get people to take them as facts, get caught then start the stupid excuses, insults and the old "prove me wrong,prove me wrong".
Anyone who takes your "research" seriously needs to go to night school and get an education. And if Deeenoooo is behind your junk as well then he needs to go to drama school, not teach kung fu, people might actually enjoy the work of a joker. Comedy is entertainment.

And don't publish your lies in a book, you know environmentally friendly, the toilet paper is better used for other purposes than to have your silly lying book printed on them.

Eric Olson

05-17-2008, 11:08 AM

When i first joined this forum, i intentionally acted like a ***** because i wanted to see what people actually knew about CLF history to see if i could learn more. my intentions was to shake up the tree and see what falls out. look at all the nuts now!

What a great research technique...:rolleyes:

Lama Pai Sifu

05-17-2008, 11:31 AM

all you suckas, if you talk about me being fat, or move whatever.......if you can't come back from a spinal cord injury that left you paralyzed from the waist down, as i did, you can miss me with your bs.

Uh, you were obese even before the injury....
Why do you keep using it as an excuse??

LOL and tell me where I said one thing about your Sifu in Fut San...I just opened the door and asked you about it...you are the one who told the whole story. I never asked them about your Sifu there,...I just picked up upon the fact that you said that you no longer had one. YOU are the one who said everything....LOL

try and find one place where I made a statement about how you couldn't pay your Sifu over there...and you had a falling out with him.....those are your words...not mine..

:)

Lama Pai Sifu

05-17-2008, 12:03 PM

People here act like Chan Heung CREATED CLF. CLF is comprised of elements of other systems. Its the real MMA of old.

He did. He even gave it it's name, you dolt.

All systems are coprised of elements of other systems...they all use common stances and fists and kicks. What is that saying??

Try telling all these other styles that their respective teachers didn't create their style...they'll stick you like a pig and roast you over a fire-pit.

It's just that kind of logic that makes you as a huge idiot.

You always try to state stuff like it's already an accepted fact...LOL. Then you throw in "it's the real MMA of old". You are a fool...problem is...you don't even understand the idiot-logic that you are using. You actually think that you are right and everyone else on here is wrong.

You're dates are all bull****. No one believes anything you say..your credibility is ****. You are not a historian...you are a "bull****orian". You're agenda is about YOU and YOU alone. You use the School as a way to say that YOU are a part of history, but your posts just scream about how YOU have done the most research, YOU have documented, YOU have kicked down doors...blah blah blah.

Fact is Fran-ky, YOU are a poor representation of your school. You a severely out-of-shape loudmouth, who can't throw a punch to save his own life (youtube, baby) who disrespects everyone on this forum, who defames his Sifu and his school; in short - a loser. And I don't use that word often.

And I don't want to say your a waste, because I don't beleive you are. I think you have to have something of value, and then squander it to become a waste; you have nothing of value nor have you ever. You sit there with all your bull**** free zoomshare websites and weave your fabricated stories, then you yell at everyone who doesn't belive you and THEN you tell everyone that you changed dates on purpose, act like a dick on purpose..blah blah blah.

And you think anyone respects you. No..they TOLERATE you...that is all. No one wants to be you, be like you or act like you.

You are not famous with CLF circles...you are notorious..there's a difference.

kup choi

05-17-2008, 12:23 PM

Yao Sing

05-17-2008, 02:20 PM

Well for one thing I don't think there's any reason to keep pulling Dino Salvatera into all this crap. Seems like someone might have an issue with him but save that for another thread if you think it has merit.

The more questions we asked, the more we realized "hey wait a minute, if Jeung Yim went back to Chan Heung and shared what he learned with the Green Grass Monk, then they began adding in some of it, doesn't that make Jeung Hung Sing a co-founder of sorts?"

See here's where you go wrong. Nobody considers that as worthy of the co-founder title. It's not that they argue aganst him doing so, they argue against what it means.

As much as you'd like it to mean he's a co-founder it really doesn't.

And according to some writing, around that time there were TWO CLF's, Chan Heung's and Jeung Hung Sings.

Sounds more like 2 versions but even if there were 2 CLFs why wouldn't the one who used the term first get precedence? That's how the legal system in modern times works. Whoever used it first gets to keep it.

When he said there was NO Chan Family village, we proved he was wrong since there was a village in King Mui where everyone was a Chan.

There's also a Chan family village in Shajeng where Chan Pui's (of Wah Lum fame) father was the local "mayor" until the cultural revolution. They were all named Chan too. So what does that mean?

People from the Chan Family lineage claimed that Jeung Yim was just a student under Chan Heung who got well known. If we let it be, we would have never discovered that Jeung Yim helped develop CLF, that he was the founder of his own version of CLF, and that jeung yim only learned the most earliest version of CLF.

So if he only learned the most earliest version of CLF but learned primarily from Green Grass Monk why do you insist his style was CLF? That's not making any sense.

You know a little bit about style X but learn mostly style Y and then call your creation style X. See the next quote:

If we left it to the Chan Family lineage, we would have never learned the Jeung Yim first learned Lee Ga as a young boy from Lee Yau San. We would have been led to believe Chan Heung was Jeung Yim's only teacher and most influential at that. But, today we know this to be untrue and that the green grass monk was jeung yim's most influential sifu because when he went to fut san, it wasn't CLF that he was teaching, he didn't learn all that much in the 5 years he was under chan heung. Since he spent 8 years under Ching Cho, and got pretty much everything, it makes more sense that he would be teaching Fut Ga with a Chan Family CLF twist making his system Choy Ga, Lee ga, and Fut Ga while Chan Heung was just Choy and Lee.

With a system that took the whole life time of its founder (chan heung) to develop how much do you really think Jeung Yim learned in the short 5 years of its birth? anyways.

All this seems to argue AGAINST your previous claims. According to the above quote Jeung Yim would have NO right to use the CLF name. this isn't making any sense.

Maybe it's just me.

See, while the Chans claims Jeung Yim was one of their strongest soldiers, it makes me wonder because while Chan Heung was busy developing and promoting his new system, Jeung Yim was busy for the next 8 years learning the Fut Ga system, NOT spreading CLF like they wish us to believe. When Jeung Yim went to Fut San in 1849, he joined the Hung Mun and was busy with revolutionary activities, not worrying about spreading CLF. Jeung Hung Sing knew more Fut Ga than he did Chan Heung's CLF.

Again more evidence against his style being CLF. I'm totally confused.

The CLF name got attached to Jeung Yim's gung fu long before most of us here were even a thought. So today, Jeung Yim's lineage carries the CLF name. does it really matter? No. Not really. Why? because Hung Sing CLF people know we have NOTHING in common with Chan Family CLF. Not move for move, movement, essence, style, aggression, fighting, NOTHING. Except for the basics Jeung Hung Sing learned within those first 5 years.

So if it's COMPLETELY different then change the name so you aren't infringing on the use of their name. But then you are argue that Jeung Yim is a co-founder which would mean he was teaching Chan Heung's CLF.

Which is it? You can't have both since it's a contradiction.

When NO other NON CHINESE faces are allowed into certain places in Chinatown, I am allowed in. My white face.

Guess you aren't talking about the Tong headquarters on Waverly because even my white face was allowed in there. :p

And, do we care that much about the whole "Co-founder" thing? no not really.

Now that's an interesting statement right there. Sure is a lot of hollering about something you don't really care about.

The more we learn about Jeung Hung Sing, the more we realize how little he had to do with Chan Heung. In fact, when Fut San was asked about Chan Heung, the response was "what does he have to do with us?" This tells me that Chan Heung had very little to do with the development of Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut.

Digging the whole deeper and deeper.

hskwarrior

05-17-2008, 02:25 PM

jolly good kup choi! jolly good!......mike. u ar e nothin but a weak ass clf wannabe, shady as ****, what u did to ten tigers would NEVER happen to me. u'd be pushin up daisies for sure. i heard about u dude, u r one low life individual. twisted. u try and insult me knowing u r on the other side if the country. u would never kick my ass even if i was half dead. "mikey the blow hard" proof is in the pudding and ur all out of it. mikey do u really think u can benefit the clf world like u said? lmao. thats pretty big of you. big headed that is. mike....clf's great self appointed benefactor. hate me, feel sad for me, whatever. the fact of the matter is you SUCK!!!!

Lama Pai Sifu

05-17-2008, 02:34 PM

ha ha ha Franky...I'm laughing at you, I'm laughing at you, I'm laughing at you.

Poor boy. Poor sad pathetic Franky. What's the matter? You gonna cry now? Nobody loves you? What no parents to love you fatty? Did you eat to feel better? Want a donut honey?? C'mon, you'll feel better....here...take it!

You said that
'unlike me, you didn't have parents to fall back on?'

Now that you are backed into a corner you want to try to talk about what you think you know about me?? LOL I love it. You are teetering on the edge.....dough-boy....LOL

I'd love to see the spread of food you probably have around your desk right now....chips, donuts, soda, candy....are u getting hungry fat-boy??

Hey, I can dish it out as well as you crippy-boy. Don't expect to get any quarter because of your parents, your injury, whatever. You're a big fat ****. When you walk down the street people say "Hey, look at that kid, he's a big fat ****!"

Have a humongous caloric weekend you tubby *****! HA!

yutyeesam

05-17-2008, 02:37 PM

This is productive.

cjurakpt

05-17-2008, 02:50 PM

if you can't come back from a spinal cord injury that left you paralyzed from the waist down, as i did, you can miss me with your bs.
you'll excuse me if I say that for those of us that work in rehab and have seen more than a few people come back from what you describe, this statement is neither particularly impressive nor uncommon, so please stop trying to play it off as if you had to overcome some sort of unique challenge

the difference is that the vast majority of people who have recovered from a SCI do not use it as some sort of rationale for why other people can't say anything to them - most are just glad to be back on their feet and let it go from there; the ones who rightly feel a little bitter are the C4/5 quads: ever see what that's like Frank? I think I'll reserve my sympathy for someone who has to blow into a tube to move their power wheelchair around instead of someone who had temporary motor paralysis of the legs

honestly Frank, you make it seem like such a big deal: tell me, since you like to use this as a stick to beat people over the head with, what was the actual diagnosis? was your spinal cord actually severed? or was it something a little less extreme, like swelling, which can temporarily knock out your motor function?

you say you had to work so hard to get yourself walking again: well, when someone's BMI is elevated significantly, it typically does make rehab bit harder;

put it in perspective Frank - you had an injury of some sort; you lost motor function for a while; if you have it all back, it means that, fundamentally, the injury was not that serious on the continuum of potentials, meaning that it wasn't so much any sort of Herculean effort that you performed, it was just "normal" physiology doing its thing over time; stop implying that it was otherwise in absence of evidence to the contrary

cjurakpt

05-17-2008, 02:59 PM

Okay, Mike brought up the fact that I did not fulfill my obligations to my new sifu in fut san. Why, because unlike him, i don't have parents to fall back on when I need money.
Frank, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about; out of respect for Mike's privacy I won't go into details, but from the day I met him, this was never the case; you really ought to drop this, because if Mike does decide to elaborate on why this is not the case, you are going to look like even more boorish than you already do

冠木侍

05-17-2008, 03:05 PM

Lama Pai Sifu

05-17-2008, 03:08 PM

Interesting debate....
But what's up with that? What did he do?

Ten Tigers and I had an argument. It lasted for a few minutes and it was done. I have nothing against him.

Frank is always looking for a way to deflect a factual discussion and make it personal or about gossip, i.e., he said she said.

It's Fat-Franky's way of distracting people, nothing more, nothing less.

If we stick to facts and issues, Frank-e-futer won't be able to hold his own...

hskwarrior

05-17-2008, 03:27 PM

yao sing, give it up. lol. chris......if u must know, L4 & L6 were severly fractured and L5 broke in half and pushed into my spinal cord. the diganosis was i would never walk again. no matter what, if you are not my doctor, it doesnt really matter what u say now does it? believe what u like. lol.....mike, fat jokes? thats it? thats your best? you spoiled kock shaped president of the hair club for men slow and stiff moving karate gi kung fu mcdojo self centered insecure dolt nimrod arsewhipe! u make me laugh. but u are kinda borderline aren't you? do u have a crush on me? you don't do u? cuz if u do, hey its not my type of party! come on now, shoot me some more fat jokes....i can use some more. but not too fast, im writing them down.

Yao Sing

05-17-2008, 03:44 PM

Guess that means you don't have an answer. Could you at least pin down your argument to one of the two you throw around?

Is it co-founder that started his own branch of CLF or is it creator of his own style that has nothing to do with CLF?

How can you expect people to take you serious if your basic premiss is all over the place. You can't stand on the shoulders of CLF and build off it's recognition while seperating yourself from CLF at the same time.

Also, don't post comments on a public forum if you don't want people to ask questions or discuss the topic.

hskwarrior

05-17-2008, 03:46 PM

mikeypoo, u are one funny man. seriously. u need to be on stage. you'd have one helluva act dude! but unless we touch hands, i guess you only be blowing hard about how weak i am. so blow away. but,remember this, if u are basing what u think by the videos i've posted, good. keep thinking u saw me really show anything. if thats what u want to believe. only one way to find out huh? i think ill call u hurricane mike.......cuz u blow hard, n keep on blowin! lmao @ u!

hskwarrior

05-17-2008, 04:23 PM

lmao, hurrucane mike....do u not see u have been attacking me from the get go? i even tried to ignore u cause u aren't really clf. but u always butt into conversations where your commentary wasn't asked for. u feel like your words carry weight and people want to hear what u have to say. you call me pompous, but for some unknown reason u fail to see those same things in yourself. "i got this many schools, n this many students, i'm real thpethal, hey i'm sifu sensei mike p. aren't you lucky to know me?" mike, you are more amusing than howard stern. and u got D size man boobz! sexy! lol

Yao Sing

05-17-2008, 04:43 PM

and u got D size man boobz! sexy! lol

That's it, I don't want any more of this conversation. :eek:

hskwarrior

05-17-2008, 05:14 PM

yao sing, it was said that around the third generation masters began referring to jeung yims gung fu....clf. fut ga, fut ga jing jong, or hung sing kuen are some ofthe names possibly used. but of course im not old enough to tell you. in our point of view, if chan heungs clf took on a new look due to jeung yims additions to his system, then we see it as he helped create a newer clf...hence co-founder. we still call it clf because of tradition. i know some who would gladly change names. but there is so much of what i wrote no one wants to touch. i wonder why? lol. u all want to tear at errors, and nothing else. bunch of nuts u are.

cjurakpt

05-17-2008, 05:22 PM

chris......if u must know, L4 & L6 were severly fractured and L5 broke in half and pushed into my spinal cord. the diganosis was i would never walk again. no matter what, if you are not my doctor, it doesnt really matter what u say now does it? believe what u like. lol.
an L4 and L5 fracture could easily damage the spinal cord at each level, which at that point is known as the "cauda equina" (or "horse's tail"); as such, what you had in addition to your vertebral fractures is what is called "cauda equina syndrome" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauda_equina_syndrome), and paraplegia of the lower extremities is certainly an associated symptom (as well as a bunch of other less pleasant ones that I am sure you are more than well-aware of...)
cauda equina syndrome can resolve to varying degrees, depending on degree of damage, and amount of time elapsed between the trauma and de-compressive surgery (which I assume you had); even still, it is one of those things where it initially can be very difficult to tell exactly what the long term effects will be; as such, being told you would never walk again (which was a prognosis, BTW, not a diagnosis) was quite an assumption on the part of the doc in question, especially given how most docs, in that sort of situation won't commit to what they can't possibly know; personally, I am more inclined to believe you were told that you "might" never walk again, or that they "didn't know" if you would walk again, which would be more consistent with the nature of the diagnosis; but, as you no doubt will tell me, I wasn't there, so yes, I can't know for sure what was said; but then again, I am not so sure that you have the best recollection of what was said either; to wit, you mentioned that you had fractured L6 - well, that, if true, it would be an unprecedented event in the history of medicine, largely because there is no such thing as L6 - the last exit in the lumbar spine is L5; which simply means that (yet again), your reliability in reporting things is less than perfect; sure, you can say that you just made a mistake, but for someone who keeps dragging out your medical history over and over again, it seems odd that you wouldn't have a more precise knowledge of what actually happened...

Yao Sing

05-17-2008, 05:23 PM

Was it CLF before Jeung Yim's contribution?

It's close but technically incorrect. Whether complete or not, finished or not it still existed as CLF.

They did not jointly devise a new style. If a programmer helped Bill Gates with some DOS code would he be a co-founder of Microsoft?

Anyhow that's my view on it and it seems others feel the same way. I know you disagree. I wondere if there's any precedence for this?

Yao Sing

05-17-2008, 05:40 PM

Of course you realize he only threw in that L6 to see if you know what you're talking about. He was just testing you. ;)

cjurakpt

05-17-2008, 05:45 PM

Of course you realize he only threw in that L6 to see if you know what you're talking about. He was just testing you. ;)

LOL

or he is some sort of freakish genetic mutation and he actually does have an L6...

or when it comes to spinal levels he is routinely off by a factor of one (as opposed to birth dates of TCMA practitioners, where it's a factor of 10 :eek:)

hskwarrior

05-17-2008, 06:23 PM

TenTigers

05-17-2008, 06:40 PM

wow, how'd I get drawn into this cluster****? LPS is correct, we had an issue, we had some words, we handled it, and it's done.
I really would appreciate not being dragged into people's politics and dramas.
Things really work better fo all concerned,if we stick to Martial Arts related topics.

YMC

05-17-2008, 06:53 PM

or he is some sort of freakish genetic mutation and he actually does have an L6...

Not unheard of for people to have 6 (or 4) lumbar vertebrae, rare, but not impossible. Back to lurking.

Yao Sing

05-17-2008, 07:04 PM

You were paralyzed for 20 years or just numb but could walk.

Kinda cool not having to worry about stubbing that little pinky toe. :p

Brule

05-17-2008, 08:12 PM

hskwarrior

05-17-2008, 08:48 PM

for the last twenty years you could have stabbed my legs and i wouldn't have known. or i could walk barefooted on the cement on 100 degree weather and not feel the heat on the floor. but now i am al super sensitive now. for a few years i was in a wheel chair and had to use a pair of canes. my fastest walking back then was slower than tai chi. but i was determined to get back to practicing clf again. then....i couldn't kick passed your ankle, now i hit ten for ten doing tornado kicks. half assed, but i can do it now when i couldn't before.

Drake

05-18-2008, 03:33 AM

You know, I KNEW there was a good reason why GM told me not to come here. Why, oh why, did I not listen to GM? I guess because amidst the ridiculous claims and bickering, there are some good CLF people here who are more into spreading the style and into healthy discussion.

Frank, don't take this personally, but I am a strong advocate of physical fitness and weight control. I was in great shape long before I learned about CLF. If you suffer an injury that makes it so physical exercise is limited, then first you must find alternate aerobic exercises, perhaps using upper body only. And regardless of whether or not that is possible, you must adapt your diet to meet the new, lesser caloric requirements you now have. This also includes eating the right foods. You should be doing much better diet-wise than you currently are. That is an unbiased opinion.

cjurakpt

05-18-2008, 05:30 AM

Ten Tigers and I had an argument. It lasted for a few minutes and it was done. I have nothing against him.

LPS is correct, we had an issue, we had some words, we handled it, and it's done.
outrageous: a reasonably resolved disagreement?!? not on my watch!

you are both a disgrace to TCMA, this forum and the internet in general; the Gods of the Flame Wars are most displeased; don't re-post back up here until you figure out a way to bring this not-doubt long-simmering hatred you still have for each other back to the surface

let me start: Mike, Rik said that you mentally abuse small woodland creatures; Rik, Mike said that you eat escargot with a butter knife

now do the right thing fellas...

I believe that my work here is done

cjurakpt

05-18-2008, 05:33 AM

Not unheard of for people to have 6 (or 4) lumbar vertebrae, rare, but not impossible. Back to lurking.

actually it's true - I was thinking that last night after I posted, that occasionally you can have that - wouldn't it be a kicker if Frank was one of those people? egg on my face!

cjurakpt

05-18-2008, 05:41 AM

thank you for correcting me. L3 and L5 fractured then while L4 broke in half. for 20 yrs i was numb from the waist down. legs were shot to hell. getting your feeling back is truly incredible..for me, the sexual sensitivity is mind blowing. i had harrington rods in my spine. i mean from a technical standpoint you see it one way. but i actuall live this. medically u got a clue, realistically, i wouldn't even wish this on good ol hurricane mike

for the last twenty years you could have stabbed my legs and i wouldn't have known. or i could walk barefooted on the cement on 100 degree weather and not feel the heat on the floor. but now i am al super sensitive now. for a few years i was in a wheel chair and had to use a pair of canes. my fastest walking back then was slower than tai chi. but i was determined to get back to practicing clf again. then....i couldn't kick passed your ankle, now i hit ten for ten doing tornado kicks. half assed, but i can do it now when i couldn't before.

Frank, don't get me wrong: I'm not saying that you didn't work hard or it didn't take a long time to get back to where you were; I just take issue with your tactic of using your trauma to make yourself untouchable (no pun intended) by other people, as if somewhere on the hierarchy of trials and tribulations your personal path has been necessarily any harder than anyone else's; and since most people don't have experience with this sort of thing, they have no context to decide if you are being truthful or not, they don't know what the typical response of people is to this sort of injury (being that most work very hard to get back, and many succeed), and since the default mode for most people is to err on the side of sympathy, you are in a sense taking advantage of that when you do drag (again, no pun intended!) out your clinical history;

but then again, I am just a dumb rich kid who runs crying back home to momma every time I need $1...

cjurakpt

05-18-2008, 05:43 AM

You were paralyzed for 20 years or just numb but could walk.

Kinda cool not having to worry about stubbing that little pinky toe. :p

actually, quite the opposite, as you probably do realize...

TenTigers

05-18-2008, 07:21 AM

Chris, you are nothing more than an instigator. You take one small, brief barely glowing ember of a statement and fan the fires with embellishments until it becomes a conflagration.
All I said was that Mike once gave a squirrel a peanut, and inside, the peanut was rotten. The squirrel hissed at him, so he flipped him off. That's all that happened. When you look at it, the squirrel was actually to blame. We all have had that rotten peanut, or bad pistachio, but do we blame the person who gave it to us? Of course not. It's the luck of the draw. You take your chances like a true warrior. That squirrel knew exactly what he was getting into. ALL squirrels know the eventual consequences of peanut roulette, (none more so than the Cambodian Black-coated squirrel, but that's another story) it goes with the territory.
The squirrel obviously over-reacted, and for some reason unbeknown to us, had a paranoid reaction and took it personally. Look, we all have problems, we all have issues, but when we take simple daily occurances in our lives, and the choices we have made-deliberate choices, and rather than owning up and being accountable for our situations, we lay blame on others, so as to relinquish all responsibility for anything that occurs in our lives, we develop this victim mentality. Now it's "poor little you," dragging your poor, tortured soul through a life of anguish, and hostility. "Nobody understands me!" "Nobody gets me!" and anytime something goes wrong, or doesn't go your way, you get to be right. You get your validation.
And how does that show up in your life? In all the interractions with other people, other squirrels in your brood, throughout your entire life, this way of being will manifest, until you push everyone who dissagrees with you, and especially those squirrels who actually care about you, further and further from your life.
At the end, when all you have left is yourself, and you look back on your life, you come face to face with the big question. "What have I done?" What did I accomplish? Will I be remembered? Who is going to show up at my funeral. Will there be any squirrels crying when they lower that coffee can into the ground?
Will there even be a coffee can? Or will I simply die in obsurity, just another dead squirrel, rotting in the city streets, only to be eventually swept up by a street cleaner, or kicked into a drainage grate. Or worse, become road pizza to be smeared six feet long on the pavement and embedded into the treads of some taxicab,owned by some middle-eastern driver, who is actually a sleeper-cell waiting to be called into battle for Allah, but in the meantime has to drive long hours, with no days off, to feed his family, and come home every night to a wife who resents him for bringing them over to this God-forsaken country, where the children feel hatred at every moment by other kids in school, whose only opinions and view of the world come from their parents, who believe all the shadow government fabricated, venom-coated fodder that CNN feeds them and with their High School drop-out education, instead of taking charge of their lives, blame society and the government for their present situation. They see the day laborers, and complain that they are taking their jobs, yet you won't see THEM on line waiting for work. Yet they are totally acceptable to collecting welfare from the very government they blame for their present state.
It's a vicious circle.
Fukin squirrels.

TenTigers

05-18-2008, 07:46 AM

and another thing-when I prepare escargots, I use a large amount of butter, to which I add garlic, finely chopped shallots, salt, pepper and white wine. I, as most chefs, or hobbyists,taste my food as it's cooking, adding a pinch here, a dash there, to make sure the flavors blend and come together perfectkly in the end. I take pride in my cooking, and those who have tasted my escargots,every summer at our annual Ten Tigers Slugfest and School Picnic, have raved about it.
(We call it a slugfest because when you buy escargots in the can, they come out of their shells. What do you call a snail without a shell? A slug! Actually, we started out the picnic with the seniors sparring round robin until they dropped, puked, passed out, etc. But the troopers shut that down. Now every year, when I set up, they come over to me and mention that there is to be no sparring . Christ. We did this ONE TIME, several years ago, and haven't done it since, but they still have to come up to me, year after year. They just won't let it go. They keep pushing, pushing,PUSHING every fukin time, with their phoney smiles on their fat,pock-marked faces,with a little spittle in the sides of their mouths that just sits there, they don't even feel it. Like some toddler with snot dripping out of his nose, just walking around without a care in the world. Or some guy with that one long nose hair sticking out. Why doesn't he see it? I can see it from several feet away. What do these people see when they look in the mirror? How can you wash, shave, comb your hair,and not see this nose hair sticking out like a beacon? There was this woman in my school, a mom, who had a huge big hair Brooklyn buffant (sp) make-up that would rival any burlesque tranny at Lucky Cheng's, the ones who pluck out their eyebrows and draw in the Romulan ones, eyeliner going past her eyes onto her cheeks, but does she see the four or five black hairs growing out of her chin? How could she miss that? Maybe her mirror only goes down to her lower lip. And fat chicks in spandax. How does God let that happen? I saw a girl walking down the street and what I thought was a thick, wide belt of some sort, from a distance,ended up being this roll of fat sticking out of her midrif shirt and hanging over her pants. What are they thinking?
Of course, we all do it to some extent. Every guy who has ever tried on a black tuxedo,whether he's short,fat, bald, or what, each and every one of them(us) looks in the mirror, raises one eyebrow and says,"Bond. James Bond."

Lama Pai Sifu

05-18-2008, 07:52 AM

That's all that happened. When you look at it, the squirrel was actually to blame.

Squirrels are always to blame...in all situations....it's usually the squirrel's fault.

seisei

05-18-2008, 09:02 AM

ten tigers, no insult,but that was HEAVY BEYOND ME
M

hskwarrior

05-18-2008, 09:24 AM

cjurakpt

05-18-2008, 10:51 AM

chri j, stfu! u don't know what you're talking about. but u are very very long winded. u act likeu know, throw around a few med terminologies here and there. but honestly, you are just talking out of the side of your neck and sound pretty ****in ignorant to me right now. you can't tell me **** about what ud on't know. you are one long winded son of a biatch! u don't know sheet! lmao......all talk!

LOL, I was laughing so hard from Rik's last two posts, that when I read this I didn't even realize what Frank was talking about here; but then it all came back to me...

so I'm "long winded"? ah yes, the poor mans' substitute for "precise description"; it's right up there with "you use all those big words" (now where have I heard that before...); it's typical: when you can't follow what someone is saying, you make fun of them for their style of communication, as if all us egg-headed types are simply that way to cover up for our lack of security; also, I never throw around "med terminologies" - I just happen to use them on a regular basis, so it's just part of how I communicate things; the equivalent would be to say that you throw around "gung fu terminologies" when discussing CLF

as far as me "not knowing", if you read my posts more thoroughly, you would have noticed that I caveated my post with exactly that comment; and ultimately, although I questioned your reliability (with good cause), in the end I don't really dispute your version for just that reason: I wasn't there - maybe people agreeing with you is something that you see so rarely that you can't recognize it when it happens?

anyway, ok Frank, whatever you say, that's fine: I made my point, take it or leave it - it was really more just as a contrast for the benefit of others reading this who might have no frame of reference within which to put your comments; meaning that the next time you want to wave around how no one can say "sheet" to you because of what you went through, they won't have to pay quite as much attention to it as you might want;