HOLY CHRIST!!!! Crude Oil almost limit up today!!

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I don't even know what to say. Unleaded gas did the same thing too.

http://futuresource.quote.com/charts/charts.jsp?s=CL+2%21&a=D&d=LOW&b=BAR

[Mr Punch]

Cool!




:D

[Sang Feng Fan]

Thank you O.P.E.C.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Rummur among Futures traders has it that OPEC has hit thier Peak oil and cannot produce any more.

They are at full capacity.

The only way to cut prices now, is to curb demand in some sort of significant capacity.

[cerebus]

We're probably headed toward $15 or $20 a gallon before prices start going down significantly. At least it'll force production and use of electric and hybrid cars, and take some strain off the environment....

[cjurakpt]

We're probably headed toward $15 or $20 a gallon before prices start going down significantly. At least it'll force production and use of electric and hybrid cars, and take some strain off the environment....

there's no way it will ever get that high: it's around $4 now and people are feeling it - by $5 you will probably see it's impact in many "non-critical" sectors; double that to $10 and you'd have major problems throughout the global economy

but i agree that the solution is electric power - plug-in hybrids or fully electric cars, charged off of solar / wind powered grids; sure, the technology has a bit of a ways to go, but it's on the move, and with enough public will and economic incentives, it could be done in probably 10 to 20 years (although I don't have my hopes up that it will)

whoever the next POTUS is should make this their main platform: re-orienting the US economy to create a "Green Collar" work-force w/the same resolve that geared us up for WWII and the Moon Race, in order to develop and implement sustainable fuels and technologies; don't get me wrong - despite my tree-hugging proclivity, I'm thinking about this from a strategic standpoint, vis-a-vis avoidance of major social breakdown if it's not managed properly and soon...

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

10- 20 years?

Please read my sig, the technology is here NOW. Give the auto industry 3 years to retool and start building, and we should be selling 100% electric solar recharged cars at that time.

[BoulderDawg]

$15 to $20 a gallon....No. I use about a tank of gas a week to go to work. At $20gallon that would cost me over $900 month for gas. The way I see it, most Americans would do the same thing that I would do. That would be to demand more money from their boss or find a job 2-3 miles from there home. And who knows but maybe that might be for the best. I live in Boulder and work in Denver but many more people live in Denver and work in Boulder. More jobs would come open in my area.

In any case I can see maybe $7 a gallon before the demand really drops off but at 15 bones a gallon people making less than about 70K a year who lived 20+ miles from work could simply not afford the gas. And pleasure driving....forget it.

Anyway there's got to be a long term solution...it's obvious electric is not the answer and bio-fuel is fairly expensive itself......Maybe nuclear????? Who knows.


Of course there are many people in this country who can afford $20 gas and hope it gets there so it will clear the road.

[cjurakpt]

10- 20 years?

Please read my sig, the technology is here NOW. Give the auto industry 3 years to retool and start building, and we should be selling 100% electric solar recharged cars at that time.

I agree that the technology is here now, and i agree that in theory the industry could turn over to 100% production (I'd say 5 years); I'm talking about all the various socio-political obstacles to implementation, including the concomitant change in consciousness that the average US citizen would have to undergo;

[cjurakpt]

.it's obvious electric is not the answer
on what basis do you make that statement, since most indicators point to this as at least a viable component of "the solution"

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Anyway there's got to be a long term solution...it's obvious electric is not the answer and bio-fuel is fairly expensive itself......Maybe nuclear????? Who knows.

Reply]
How do you figure? Are you aware of the technology used in the Tesla motor car?

It has a range of 250 miles, top speed of 125, and some models do 0 to 60 in FOUR SECONDS!!!!

That makes it darn near one of the FASTEST car in the world.

It recharges off house current in 3-1/2 hours. Even todays solar panels can produce that kind of power. But WAIT!! there is a new solar collector that is twice as efficent as todays panels because it converts heat to electricity too. here's the kicker, it is a SPRAY on application, like a paint.


The technology IS here to make 100% electric cars, that are powered by thier own paint right now, today.

I have even been in communication with Tesla and they are looking into painting thier Electric car with it.

Solar recharged electric is THE way to go. Nothing else even comes close to it.

For more info, see my siggy------------>

[cjurakpt]

Anyway there's got to be a long term solution...it's obvious electric is not the answer and bio-fuel is fairly expensive itself......Maybe nuclear????? Who knows.

Reply]
How do you figure? Are you aware of the technology used in the Tesla motor car?

It has a range of 250 miles, top speed of 125, and some models do 0 to 60 in FOUR SECONDS!!!!

That makes it darn near one of the FASTEST car in the world.

It recharges off house current in 3-1/2 hours. Even todays solar panels can produce that kind of power. But WAIT!! there is a new solar collector that is twice as efficent as todays panels because it converts heat to electricity too. here's the kicker, it is a SPRAY on application, like a paint.


The technology IS here to make 100% electric cars, that are powered by thier own paint right now, today.

I have even been in communication with Tesla and they are looking into painting thier Electric car with it.

Solar recharged electric is THE way to go. Nothing else even comes close to it.

For more info, see my siggy------------>

the Tesla looks cool

but I need something SUV size - I'm currently in a Forrester, which is a great vehicle, and I can get ~26 MPG (~350 mi./tank) out of it if I drive "consciously" - obviously not great, but better than most; what's surprising is that, given the typical demographic driving Subarus, they haven't come out w/a hybrid of some sort yet; looked at the Escape hybrid online, but can't find one around here to test drive, and they are only available on order for 2009, w/3-4 mo. wait; get ~34 MPG, but only ~28 if AWD - so not much point in trading in for that; at this point, I might just as well get a Prius hybrid and keep the Forrester to use for hauling stuff - if I pay 1/2 as much for gas, that would off-set the price of having an extra payment by ~$150/mos. at this point...

all w/you on solar recharging - although I would also say that home wind is a viable possibility, especially w/the newer ones, including one that looks like a cylindical tube - I bet if you combo those two, you'd have a lot of potential (need to wait a bit more for our finances to recover from our move-in expenses last year, in about another year I should be ready to start looking at both options)

oh, for some reason I can't see sigs when I am on KFMF - possibly because I use Safari, or possibly because this is the buggiest forum I have ever frequented...

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I think if they slowed down the tesla to that of a normal car, an SUV would be totally workable.

[BoulderDawg]

So I'm suppose to pay 109K for a car that I can only drive 250 miles before I have to park it for 3 and a half hours to recharge? That makes taking a road trip a little difficult which is what you want to do with a sports car in the first place.

I still say electric is not the answer. What happens to this car after it's been driven 100k miles and the batteries have been charged 400 times? Something tells me they haven't thought that far ahead. Take one drive it for 5-10 years and then come back and tell me what a great car it is.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

You can get the cost down th that of any other SUV by mass producing it, and not making it so darn extremely fast.

As for the mileage, that is right now, without a solar recharge.

a normal car has like a 350-400 mile range. Then it runs out if gas. If you want to do a road trip, when the batteries run low, stop and eat. By the time you are done you will have enough too get another 100 miles out of it.

Also, most people are 40 minutes from work. With the solar painted electric, you would drive to work, use a minimal amount of power in that time, which would be completely replenished by the tie you get off of work. Same goes for charging it at nit. 8 hours in moon lite and it will be topped off.

Lets not forget the battery is good for 100,000 miles AND recyclable.

So you have to plan more stops on your road trip, big deal. I would rather do that, but NEVER have to pay to fuel it, than pay $60.00 to fill my tiny little 4 cylinder Elantra and only get 400 miles.

Also, the Tesla is a small sports car. if you put the technology in an SUV, you could have considerably more batteries, and extend the range by double or even more.

[Shaolin Wookie]

So I'm suppose to pay 109K for a car that I can only drive 250 miles before I have to park it for 3 and a half hours to recharge? That makes taking a road trip a little difficult which is what you want to do with a sports car in the first place.

I still say electric is not the answer. What happens to this car after it's been driven 100k miles and the batteries have been charged 400 times? Something tells me they haven't thought that far ahead. Take one drive it for 5-10 years and then come back and tell me what a great car it is.

LOL @ this. I currenty drive an American made truck and have already paid more in repairs than I did for the truck originally. What makes you think you can't replace the batteries, just like I've had to replace 2 alternators, 2 batteries, a transmission, replacement head gaskets....the list goes on? AS for road trips....we'd all be better off if we slowed down a bit. Take a train or something. Plus, if the technology had monetary suppport, you don't think they could improve the technology? What if the government sponsored alternative energy instead of big oil and coal? I guarantee there'd be improvements, and fast.

The first step is to tell the current automotive paradigm to go **** itself and implement massive alternative energy stipulations. GM created what was by all accounts a great electric vehicle. Then, they scrapped the project and buried it. No more electric.

What friggin' idiots in the auto industry don't see the massive profits to be made off of fully electric vehicles? They need government support. We've pumped billions into crusading for democracy in a desert filled with insurgents. We should have just sent Saddam 10 billion and said: "Good luck, Chuck." Then, invested in alternative fuels.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

We really don't need government subsidies, or mandates at all. The market forces will take care of all that by itself.

What is needed is to haev a lot of peopel contact Tesla and express an interest in them integrating the spray on solar technology into thier super car.

Not only would this make it self recharging, but it would greatly extend the range of the vehicle as well.

Express an interest in a common 4 dr sedan, and an SUV as well.

General Motors has it's Super car the Corvette, but they also have an array of mainstream vehicles, and even special work vehicles. I'd love to see Tesla grow to have a similar set up.

Given the raw power of the Tesla motor, I was even thinking of replacing the desile engine in most Yachts.


I can see it now, the sails are pickled in the nano tech solar collector to recharge the batteries, that run a Tesla electric motor. You would have a sail boat that could travel against the wind on Solar power or anywhere if there was no wind.

Given the size of the sails, and the diesel fuel tank (which you would replace with a bank of batteries), you would have enough room for a days worth of travel by electric power, and enough solar collectors to recharge it by morning with just moon light

[Shaolin Wookie]

We really don't need government subsidies, or mandates at all. The market forces will take care of all that by itself.

What is needed is to haev a lot of peopel contact Tesla and express an interest in them integrating the spray on solar technology into thier super car.

Not only would this make it self recharging, but it would greatly extend the range of the vehicle as well.

Express an interest in a common 4 dr sedan, and an SUV as well.

General Motors has it's Super car the Corvette, but they also have an array of mainstream vehicles, and even special work vehicles. I'd love to see Tesla grow to have a similar set up.

Given the raw power of the Tesla motor, I was even thinking of replacing the desile engine in most Yachts.


I can see it now, the sails are pickled in the nano tech solar collector to recharge the batteries, that run a Tesla electric motor. You would have a sail boat that could travel against the wind on Solar power or anywhere if there was no wind.

Given the size of the sails, and the diesel fuel tank (which you would replace with a bank of batteries), you would have enough room for a days worth of travel by electric power, and enough solar collectors to recharge it by morning with just moon light

**** Tesla. If you want to make an electric car viable, you have to make an AFFORDABLE electric car. But hey, I'm sure the super rich are going to save the universe for us all...LOL.....that is, after they win in Iraq.

[Black Jack II]

LOL.....that is, after they win in Iraq.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Shaolin Wookie]

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I know, like that would ever happen...LOL....

It's good to see we're on the same page BJII.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

**** Tesla. If you want to make an electric car viable, you have to make an AFFORDABLE electric car. But hey, I'm sure the super rich are going to save the universe for us all...LOL.....that is, after they win in Iraq.

Reply]
One, we already won in Iraq. The last few years have been clean up duty and helping install a new government.

TWO, The tesla is a Super car, and it is priced in accordance with any other supper car. When they time is right, and the market demands it they will scale down the technology to slower normally powered cars in affordable price ranges, OR a competitor will seize the opportunity to do it for them.

Most cars on the road today out peform racing cars of the 1950 and 1960. However, it is the exotic and racing traditions available only to the rich that developed that performance technology in the first place.

Every time that happenes, it gets filtered down to the common man as time and markets permit.

Right now, a self charging electric car has a HUGE potential demand base. The laws and factors of raw greed alone mandate that it will be mass produced and sold on an affordable scale.

Remember, the tesla is a small car company right now. They are not mass producing cars yet, yet they are STILL able to keep the cost down and inline with every other super car n the planet.

Just imagine what they can do once they grow too the point were they can mass produce a range of models!!

Greed may very well drive one of the big 3 to buy them up and give them access to a mass production facility long before they can grow themselves.

So stop downing the Tesla. it IS the solution to the problem. It's just in the first stages.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Despite what OPEC *Says*. there are many in the Futures and commodity industry that feel they have hit peak oil, and CANNOT produce more oil. They feel the reasons for not doing so are excuses in an attempt to cover thier issue.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/080608/opec.html

Comments anyone?

[Shaolin Wookie]

Greed may very well drive one of the big 3 to buy them up and give them access to a mass production facility long before they can grow themselves.

So stop downing the Tesla. it IS the solution to the problem. It's just in the first stages.

Dude, you have a very high opinion of the Big 3. I'm from Detroit, and nearly all my fam's in the biz. The Big 3 would love to buy up all alternative sources, churn out a Prius every year, and drown the rest of the technology for a couple more centuries; or, put them on the shelf in limited supply, and then claim there wasn't a demand and down the project.

GM created that one electric car. Why haven't they put it into production, and why didn't they have a lease with option to buy? They don't intend to produce that car. It's....#1, too good. #2, won't help their market.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Simple, "Thier" electric car suxored.

The tesla is one of the fastest accelerating cars in the world. GM's piece of junk can't even remotely compare.

In other words, there was no market for the crap they were trying to pedal so they abandoned the project.

The technology the Tesla is built on is an entirely different story though. There is a HUGE dormant market for that, just waiting to come to life if someone could just bring it to mass production.

Tesla has done things with the electric vehicle that GM thought impossible. If "They" were smart enough to do it, they would have already, but they were not, and still are not. But if they invest in Tesla, they can share the ride to riches.

It basically amounts to GM's Sh!t is fake, Tesla is the r3@l

[Black Jack II]

The GM car never got a chance, first off it was only allowed to produce the car as an experimental prototype for test purposes only and was limited in the number it was allowed to put on the road, as the car did not meet NHTSB safety standards.

GM did a good business move, it decided not to toss good money after bad by redesigning a car that had nothing going for it and cost a fortune and would lead to a serious financial loss by putting it into consumer hands.

Tell they make a battery available that actually makes an electric car practical then this is all bogus. The Tesla is a neat niche super car but that technology is not practical for real world use at this time and anyone guessing a realistic time span is just guessing at this point.

I have nothing against hybrid cars, a lot of merit can be brought to the table years down the line but I will take my old school muscle any day over what I am seeing now, and at a far less cost to myself.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Why is the technology not practical? Put that same motor in an SUV, use the greater available battery space, then paint it with the new solar collector and you will have a vehicle NOW that will almost never need to be charged ever.

I could buy everything I need today, and convert a light weight SUV, like an S-10 Jimmy/Blazer, or a Jeep Liberty in a well equipt garage if I wanted. The cost would be about the same as replacing the motor and trans with new OEM original parts.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I am looking at the Crude Oil charts right now. Based on what i am seeing, it looks like the price will take a bit of a breather and be down tomorrow, but the market is poised to make another new high by Friday.

[Shaolin Wookie]

There's a guy in Maryland or something that can gut out your engine and turn it into all electric. Costs 100k or something, though.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I am sure i could do it for the same cost as replacing the motor with a brand new OEM original.

$100,000.00 seems very extreme. I could build an entire car from scratch for that. That would be starting with a truck load of raw steel stock.

[sanjuro_ronin]

My car is fueled in Chi !
As long as there is a taco bell, I am cruising !!
:D