Stone Warrior?

[Kevin73]

I have watched the stone warrior program that was put out by Green Dragon Studios. And as I understand it, the Stone Warrior that is sold on amazon is the same program just redone by a different person.

Other than those two sources, I have never heard of this set/program. Does anyone know it's history or lineage? What style did it first come from? Do any other styles still use it today?

[sanjuro_ronin]

It was created by Allen for Green Dragon.
No other systems use it because it doesn't exist in other systems, unless someone has added it to them.

[Kevin73]

Thanks for that. I rechecked the website and here is what is says.


Undoubtedly the PREMIER power building and muscular development exercise program to come from any area of the Chinese Fighting Arts!! Many physical strength building sets from Kung-Fu claim to be the best at developing the kind of awesome body power that many of the legendary Masters were said to have achieved. This is true of strictly ''internal'' systems, such as Chi Kung (which, if true, takes a lifetime), as well as combined ''internal/ external'' programs such as 5-Family's Iron Vest, Hung Style's Iron Thread, 5-Animal's Muscle Change, or Buddha Style's Teet Lo Han Chin Ch'uan.



It doesn't necessarily say it comes from a certain style, but it doesn't say it was created by them either.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Thanks for that. I rechecked the website and here is what is says.



It doesn't necessarily say it comes from a certain style, but it doesn't say it was created by them either.

Its been awhile since I saw the Stone Warrior routine, refresh my memory, how long does it take?

[IronWeasel]

I have watched the stone warrior program that was put out by Green Dragon Studios. And as I understand it, the Stone Warrior that is sold on amazon is the same program just redone by a different person.

Other than those two sources, I have never heard of this set/program. Does anyone know it's history or lineage? What style did it first come from? Do any other styles still use it today?



I believe it's lineage to be: Sifu Allen

This exact question was raised by GM Chicoine, and he said that he looked into it's origin while in China/Taiwan.

His conclusion was that Sifu Allen created this exercise set himself.

[IronFist]

I did the Stone Warrior program for a while back in the day. I've made a lot of posts about it so search for them and if you have any more questions post in here (altho I don't check this forum that often).

In all seriousness tho now that I'm enlightened about strength training I really wouldn't recommend it. You will develop more strength, faster, and more efficiently by lifting weights. Please don't be one of these anti-weight lifting martial artists. A lot of people think lifting weights will make you big, or slow, neither of which is true. Weightlifting can make you big if you do the right kind of volume and intensity and couple that with the correct type of diet, but it doesn't just "happen." Trust me, I've been trying to "get big" for years now and it doesn't randomly happen. You can also lift weights to gain raw power without gaining any size at all, if that's what you want. 120 pound women bench press 300-400 pounds. How many 150 pound anti-weight training martial artists have you seen do that?

I am going to give you the secret to physical conditioning right now. If you're a noob you won't believe me at first, because you are looking for the super secret hidden Chinese method that will make you invincible, but after years of research, reading studies, talking with sports physiologists, doctors, and other experts in the field, you will come to these same conclusions:

1. To develop strength, lift weights. By "strength", I mean "the ability to generate maximal force." The only way your nervous system will adapt and be able to generate maximal force is by practicing with heavy weights. In other words, you aren't going to be able to bench press 300 pounds if you practice by doing pushups, because the intensity and the resistance isn't there, so your body won't adapt. You can structure your weight training, diet, and rest regimen to a) develop strength without adding any size (useful if you want to stay in a particular weight class or just don't want to get big or spend extra money on the amount of food required to get big), b) develop strength and size. It depends on your goals.

2. To develop the kind of endurance required for fighting, fight. Running, jogging, marathons, etc. all build endurance, but they don't tax your energy systems in the same way as fighting. If a boxer has a problem with getting tired during his fights, and he can currently run 2 miles, even if he trains so that he can run 10 miles, he still won't have any more energy in his fights because running long distances is not the same intensity as fighting. If you want to run marathons, then train to run marathons. If you want to have tons of energy and endurance during your fights, then practice fighting/sparring. Alternatives to this are other high-intensity activities, such as jumping rope or sprinting.

That's it as far as conditioning goes. Don't forget to eat enough for the type of training that you're doing. The only other aspect I didn't cover here is your martial training, but that's a different topic altogether.

Oh, the one thing Stone Warrior will build is endurance for sustaining extended periods of muscular contraction. After all, that's basically what you're doing when you're doing Stone Warrior. Unfortunately, that's not really applicable to anything. At its final level, Stone Warrior takes 90 minutes to do, and the entire time you're flexing every muscle in your body. That's like the opposite of what fighting is like, not to mention I've heard anecdotal evidence that this can be terrible for your heart and cause weird breathing problems over time. Plus Stone Warrior doesn't really do anything for your legs. Sure you're holding stances, and one of the exercises involves a "goat stance" (or whatever it's called when you press your knees together really hard), but that's not really doing anything other than building endurance in your leg adductors.


edit - I forgot. In your weight training, make sure you include the following (unless you have some limiting condition that prevents you from doing so - always check with your doctor first!)

Deadlifts - increases leg strength and strengthens the lower back. If you want to maintain good lower back health throughout your life (ie. when you're 50, be the only guy in your group of 50 year old friends who doesn't have lower back problems/pain), you will do deadlifts. Ever seen someone bend over to randomly pick something up and "throw their back out?" That person didn't do deadlifts.

Squats - builds leg strength like nothing else.

Bench press and/or overhead presses - builds upper body pressing strength like nothing else

Pullups - builds upper body pulling strength like nothing else



But if you can only do one of the above, choose deadlifts.


I guarantee you if you do squats, deadlifts, and bench presses for 3 months you will be stronger than someone else who did Stone Warrior for 12 months.




This post should be stickied :D

[Pork Chop]

This post should be stickied :D

Seconded...

[WinterPalm]

Iron Fist,

Weights might be good and all, but what if I don't want to get hyooge?:D

[IronFist]

Iron Fist,

Weights might be good and all, but what if I don't want to get hyooge?:D

Then stay away from free weights and only use machines :D :p :D :p




(note to lurkers: I'm kidding. Machines suck 99% of the time for 99% of cases)

[IronFist]

I just searched for my old Stone Warrior and Iron Body posts and I can't find them. Did the forums get purged? I probably wrote them sometime between 01 and 04 or 05.

[mickey]

IronFist,

Thank you, that was a great share.



mickey

[TenTigers]

if you don't wanna get hyuuuge, then don't eat like a bodybuilder. ie-eating tons of chicken, eggs, fish, eggs, chicken, eggs, did I mention eggs?
Eat enough to feed and repair your muscles, but not enough for hypertrophy, and you should be fine.
BTW-congrats to my student Hadi Beshang, who at 17 just won his first amature bodybuilding championship.after only three years of training! Look for him in upcoming issues of Natural Bodybuilding Magazine.

[kal]

I'm quite disappointed to learn that Green Dragon made up this Stone Warrior stuff.

Did they also make up their Iron palm and Iron vest material? Or is that at least genuine?

[Dale Dugas]

Their Iron Palm and Iron Vest come from Master Gene Chicoine.

[cjurakpt]

I am going to give you the secret to physical conditioning right now etc.

So what...so what you say...Grog think (head hurting)...train what you do, to get good at what you do? Huh...much good you say, think Grog (head hurting more)...why so many say do "secret training", but not explain why it work? Maybe no secret to training, Grog now think (head really hurt now)...Grog think too much now, need go sleep...

[Piercinghammer]

The Stone warrior as it is called from Green dragon Studio's is in fact a complete fabrication, I was a youngster when this was all being talked about and looked at
and discussed, around 1976-78. Just things that where put together after a strong influence of Feeman Ong. Master Ong was very big into training programs
that where to be done everyday and exact number of repetions. When the break up beetween Allen, Chicoine and Ong, Chicoine and Allen where looking all over the place for sources and new material.... Soooo Allen just made this one up.

The Iron Palm and Iron shirt are both from Master Ong. I never cared much for the iron shirt- Small body. I always felt that Choy li fut's basic training blew it
out of the water and actually acomplished somthing martial training wise.
Many Years later upon reviewing it again, it seems like several types of basic
chi gong things bunched together, But thats me.

The iron palm from this branch, directly from Feeman Ong. You can't go wrong with it if you follow it's rules, and YOU will get results.

just thought I would try to keep things straight for everybody.


Thanks
Mike Biggie

http://akronkungfu.com/index.html

[IronFist]

I wish I had known what I posted in this thread years ago. I wouldn't have wasted my time with "secret" martial arts exercises and stuff trying to develop real ultimate power or whatever.

[Dale Dugas]

The Stone warrior as it is called from Green dragon Studio's is in fact a complete fabrication, I was a youngster when this was all being talked about and looked at
and discussed, around 1976-78. Just things that where put together after a strong influence of Feeman Ong. Master Ong was very big into training programs
that where to be done everyday and exact number of repetions. When the break up beetween Allen, Chicoine and Ong, Chicoine and Allen where looking all over the place for sources and new material.... Soooo Allen just made this one up.

The Iron Palm and Iron shirt are both from Master Ong. I never cared much for the iron shirt- Small body. I always felt that Choy li fut's basic training blew it
out of the water and actually acomplished somthing martial training wise.
Many Years later upon reviewing it again, it seems like several types of basic
chi gong things bunched together, But thats me.

The iron palm from this branch, directly from Feeman Ong. You can't go wrong with it if you follow it's rules, and YOU will get results.

just thought I would try to keep things straight for everybody.


Thanks
Mike Biggie

http://akronkungfu.com/index.html

Thank you brother!

[I Hate Ashida Kim]

Or is it legitimately some old set that was handed down?

I seem to recall some drama with him and making claims or something that ended up not being true. Was it him who photoshopped a picture to make it look like he was standing next to some SC master or something?

[IronWeasel]

Or is it legitimately some old set that was handed down?

I seem to recall some drama with him and making claims or something that ended up not being true. Was it him who photoshopped a picture to make it look like he was standing next to some SC master or something?



Why don't you ask him where he learned it?

;)

[PalmStriker]

Who the 'ell is Sifu Allen? :confused:

[IronWeasel]

Who the 'ell is Sifu Allen? :confused:



http://www.greendragonkungfu.com/

[hskwarrior]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKfqAbvl9nU

[hskwarrior]

who in the hell uses "LAOSHI SIFU"?????????

[sean_stonehart]

Take a look at their curriculum... who does it remind you of? Honestly... :eek:

[lkfmdc]

"stone warrior"

no, that doesn't in any way sound like a made up name some douchebag who doesn't know any real Chinese language might make up for some fake set he made up.

no, not at all .....

(/sarcasm)

now go on with your day

[Scott R. Brown]

"stone warrior"

no, that doesn't in any way sound like a made up name some douchebag who doesn't know any real Chinese language might make up for some fake set he made up.

no, not at all .....

(/sarcasm)

now go on with your day

Yeah, not like my first instructor who combined Chinese and Japanese terms to name his "inspired" forms! No...... no comparison at all. :rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

Yeah, not like my first instructor who combined Chinese and Japanese terms to name his "inspired" forms! No...... no comparison at all. :rolleyes:

CHinese and Japanese, it's all that "oriental stuff" and can be mixed freely... didn't you know that? :rolleyes:

[Scott R. Brown]

CHinese and Japanese, it's all that "oriental stuff" and can be mixed freely... didn't you know that? :rolleyes:

Yeah what's the difference to us round eyes!

[IronWeasel]

Previous thread.



http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51256

[lkfmdc]

This is interesting

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=868562&postcount=5

[IronWeasel]

This is interesting

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=868562&postcount=5




I feel a thread merge coming on...

[PalmStriker]

So Be It. :) https://www.google.com/search?q=Merging+traffic+sign&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=1av&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Kls9UYCJKIiW0QH28YD4Cg&ved=0CDAQsAQ&biw=1440&bih=807

[IronFist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKfqAbvl9nU

I have the original Stone Warrior video with Sifu Allen.

I watched some of this Laoshih Sifu Jeffrey Glanz guy's other videos. That's different from what Sifu Allen teaches. Some of the movements are similar, and some are way off. This dude also keeps talking about "chi expression." IIRC Sifu Allen was pretty clear that Stone Warrior is external only (with the exception of one of the movements).

Let me clarify here, though. I don't think there's anything special or magical about Sifu Allen's Stone Warrior. It's a big long dynamic tension set. The idea is that doing the dynamic tension will "build strength through those movements (which are ideally based around martial movements that you would actually use in a fight)."

So I'm not saying one way is better than the other, and I'm not sure how much strength a big long dynamic tension set will actually build, anyway. I did Stone Warrior for about a year and then switched to weight lifting and I was pretty weak when I started weight lifting. I did have pretty good muscular endurance, which is to be expected considering I was spending 30 minutes each day doing a dynamic tension set, but that type of muscular endurance doesn't translate to strength, nor is it necessarily applicable to a fighting situation.

I sure did think I was a bad ass at the time, though.

I think dynamic tension may have its place in a certain type of strength training program, but maybe like 5% of the overall work being done. Certainly not the majority of it. I can't even remember the exact reason; something about overriding neurological limitations or something, but IIRC it won't really be effective if it's not a supplement to resistance training (weight lifting). Your muscles NEED progressive resistance from an outside force (weights) in order to get stronger over time.

Stone Warrior is a cool little set, though. Most of the movements do appear to mimic traditional kung fu style fighting applications. And at least Sifu Allen emphasized strength. I think his point was "most kung fu people do not have the strength required to use the techniques they have learned." It kind of flew in the face of the whole "you don't need to be strong" idea that TMA liked to talk about.

I agree with Sifu Allen that strength is important, but I don't think Stone Warrior is the ideal way to get there. Your time would be much more efficiently spent doing squat, deadlift, and a press a few times a week. That would be much better than the 90 minutes DAILY you're supposed to spend on Stone Warrior.

[sanjuro_ronin]

To expand on what IF said above ( to which I agree with pretty much everything):
Dynamic tension ( isokinetic) strength training has its benefits but they pale ( in terms of building pure strength) to weights simply because there is no "standard" way to progressively increase the resistance, which is crucial for building pure strength.
This is even MORE the case in a set liek SW which is far TOO long to build anything BUT muscular endurance

The issue with isokinetic exercise is that you can't quantify the % of muscle strength you are using, in short you are either doing maximum tension or less than max, but you can't know how much less.

Dynamic tension means that you tense the muscles in a given movement and then move THROUGH the range of motion ( as opposed to isometrics where you stay at a specific point in the ROM). Because you are tensing every muscle you can in a conscious manner, you are ( supposedly) doing more work - take the curl for example:
With weights you work the biceps ( primarily) but the triceps get minimal work.
With DT because you are tensing the triceps also, you give them some work as well ( eccentric to the concentric of the curl).
Again the issue is the % of intensity ( and also time under tension).
Studies have shown that max tension can only be held for about 6-8 seconds and after that, you are not using strength but fighting of fatigue ( endurance), so a move the is using max tension will, typically, last about 3-5 seconds ( depending on the person).
I whole dynamic tension set done with max ( or as close to max as we can) should last, at the most ( for strength purposes) about 10-12 min and that is WITH the pauses needed to "release" the tension between exercies.

It should be noted that the Tit sid kune of Hung Kune follows those parameters very well.


Again, if one is using a DT set to build pure strength ( and there are better methods) then one MUST use max tension ( or as close as we can get) in every move being done to develop the strength, outside that what is being developed is muscular endurance ( fighting off fatigue in the muscles).

[Frost]

so the set was totally made up and is in reality a fake, and the guy who made it up used the wrong timing and length for the purpose it was faked for

[sanjuro_ronin]

so the set was totally made up and is in reality a fake, and the guy who made it up used the wrong timing and length for the purpose it was faked for

I have no idea WHY Allen made it so...
But 90 min of ST is quite simply endurance training.

[Frost]

I have no idea WHY Allen made it so...
But 90 min of ST is quite simply endurance training.

oh you know exactly why he made it up .......:)

[David Jamieson]

Newsflash: ALL EXERCISE IS DEVISED AND "MADE UP">

Does it really matter?

what works? what does not? What works for some but not for others? etc.

These are the worthwhile questions.

so many green *****es in here it's like an episode of Star Trek! :p

[Frost]

Newsflash: ALL EXERCISE IS DEVISED AND "MADE UP">

Does it really matter?

what works? what does not? What works for some but not for others? etc.

These are the worthwhile questions.

so many green *****es in here it's like an episode of Star Trek! :p
yes it does matter for several reasons
Firstly its misleadingb its marketed as the grand ultimate secret chinese system created years ago and only passed down to the most worthy of students...when in fact he made it up

secondly If the whole premise is to mislead from day one then that doesnt say much about what the outcome is going to be from studying the thing

Thirdly if its made up then there is no histroy of it working so the chances of it being usefull are nil, esecpially if its different from other systems that do work such as iron wire etc

[lkfmdc]

Newsflash: ALL EXERCISE IS DEVISED AND "MADE UP">

Does it really matter?



As usual, you miss the point....

Unless you subscribe to the stone tablets from G'd world view of course everything is made up by somone somewhere....

Which is precisely why not only is it dishonest but unnecessary to make up elaborate stories (ie bull****) about stuff you teach to make it sound like some ancient secret some monk made up in good old ancient china

[sanjuro_ronin]

yes it does matter for several reasons
Firstly its misleadingb its marketed as the grand ultimate secret chinese system created years ago and only passed down to the most worthy of students...when in fact he made it up

secondly If the whole premise is to mislead from day one then that doesnt say much about what the outcome is going to be from studying the thing

Thirdly if its made up then there is no histroy of it working so the chances of it being usefull are nil, esecpially if its different from other systems that do work such as iron wire etc

It is a well know fact that every MA was made up.
The IW was made up.
It is perfectly fine to state that a form was made up.
There is no reason to lie about the origins unless you are trying to passed it off as some "ancient chinese secret".

[lkfmdc]

It is a well know fact that every MA was made up.
The IW was made up.
It is perfectly fine to state that a form was made up.
There is no reason to lie about the origins unless you are trying to passed it off as some "ancient chinese secret".

Just to emphasis

"There is no reason to lie about the origins unless you are trying to passed it off as some "ancient chinese secret"

/\ THIS

You might also note that where Tit Sin (wire) is concerned we have a very clear, not very embelished story of how it came about. A monk taught some chi kung type stuff, his student arranged it into a set, it was modified by his student and adopted by WFH.....

You see evolution and change, not some "holy grail" that never was changed, passed down secretly from generation to generation, because that NEVER HAPPENS

[David Jamieson]

yes it does matter for several reasons
Firstly its misleadingb its marketed as the grand ultimate secret chinese system created years ago and only passed down to the most worthy of students...when in fact he made it up

secondly If the whole premise is to mislead from day one then that doesnt say much about what the outcome is going to be from studying the thing

Thirdly if its made up then there is no histroy of it working so the chances of it being usefull are nil, esecpially if its different from other systems that do work such as iron wire etc
But you don't know that. You are band-wagoning with someone else who doesn't actually know either. Do you actually know that what you are accusing some other guy of is authentic and true?

I'm gonna say, no, no you don't and that you are talking out your ass and arguing from ignorance because that is exactly what you are doing. It is what it is. I think aromatherapy is crap, but hey, people love it and buy in to it all day long.

There is not one single teacher on these forums that can guarantee any of their students that they will in fact be able to defend themselves effectively after taking lessons with any of them. there is no one here that can say "this will improve your health" etc etc. It is entirely dependent on whether or not that person does it.

I'm guessing no one here kvetching away has done the material or even really watched it end to end with one or two exceptions. So that's that unless you want to throw stones. IN which case, go ahead, but it's a bloody waste of time.

I practice dynamic tension sets. I've seen other versions, they all touch on the same ideas.


As usual, you miss the point....

Unless you subscribe to the stone tablets from G'd world view of course everything is made up by somone somewhere....

Which is precisely why not only is it dishonest but unnecessary to make up elaborate stories (ie bull****) about stuff you teach to make it sound like some ancient secret some monk made up in good old ancient china

Oh really? So no tall tales in Traditional martial arts then.

Right, gotcha.

Good luck with that.

If you guys were actually serious about being "the deadly" you'd join a military force instead of sitting around with your hobby arts and grinding on and on about someone else and their hobby art.

I can thin of all kinds of bat crap crazy stuff that goes on in virtually all martial practices, from the paleo fools of crossfit to the secret chi exploders.

None of it is relevant to what you are doing is it? Is it? Who do you think you are protecting and who do you think you are protecting them from?

seriously, you come across as whiners with nothing better to focus on than throwing feces.

[lkfmdc]

Oh really? So no tall tales in Traditional martial arts then.



It's truely remarkable how you can consistently miss the point...

the tall tales aka bull**** are precisely the problem in the traditional arts....

people like Allen learned to be a liar from a long line of liars whom we often called "sifu"....

[lkfmdc]

If you guys were actually serious about being "the deadly" you'd join a military force instead of sitting around with your hobby arts and grinding on and on about someone else and their hobby art.



You seriously need medications... you can't follow a logical line of thought progression and say the most absurd things

There has NEVER in the hisotry of mankind been a society with 100% of that society is military...

There has ALWAYS been a need for "self defense" and/or fighting techniques among the "general population"

But since you can't follow a logical line of discussion, I'm sure you will ignore that little fact (just like you have ignored HUGE FACTS in the past)

[jdhowland]

I glanced away for a second and almost missed the merge.

This has been done to death in the past but I'll say it again in the public interest: much of what this guy does was not learned--it was videotaped and imitated by him. Some friends showed me some of his videos in the '80s--some were good, some were terrible. Despite using his religion to back up his claims to being a good guy Allen's posturing really irks me. Huge ego, loves to give long pretentious lectures, loves authoritarianism and verbal absolutes but refuses to give a lineage (or even a general source) for the sets he presents because he holds that lineage is not important.

To my mind, the only way to justify that is if his people are knocking 'em out in a ring. Otherwise you can miss the essentials of an art entirely by only trying to copy the moves.

[David Jamieson]

And everyone here is righteous and free of stain.

My point is that none of you are guaranteed that you know the foundations of what you do.

None of you can guarantee that you weren't sold a bill of goods somewhere.

Dave, you can go off all you like about this or that, but why have you drifted so far away from what you were taught and move into something that was not of that line of teaching?

You can kvetch and whine and moan all you like, but you don't actually have direct experience and you don't know.

I would wager that none of you have direct experience with the guy you are banging on and maybe you're just participating in a good poo throw fest.

Lame, unconstructive, waste of time.

Why don't you ask the person you are whining about?

So weak...so, very weak. :rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

And everyone here is righteous and free of stain.



irony, it isn't just for breakfast anymore :rolleyes:

[jdhowland]

[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1217732I would wager that none of you have direct experience with the guy you are banging on and maybe you're just participating in a good poo throw fest.

Lame, unconstructive, waste of time.
QUOTE]

True, but did you notice it was I_H_A_K who started the thread? I assume it is meant primarily for entertainment value and carry on as such.

btw what does "kvetching" mean? I don't know Yiddish.

[IronFist]

yes it does matter for several reasons
Firstly its misleadingb its marketed as the grand ultimate secret chinese system created years ago and only passed down to the most worthy of students...when in fact he made it up

secondly If the whole premise is to mislead from day one then that doesnt say much about what the outcome is going to be from studying the thing


Agree with all of this.

If he just said "hey, I (or we) created this strength set because I (or we) wasn't/weren't happy with what was currently out there," that would be no problem. Cool.

But it's presented as ancient Chinese secrets as a marketing angle. Half of the fun of TMA is being part of something bigger than yourself. Doing something that people have been doing for hundreds of years.

Regardless, that wouldn't even really matter if it was super effective.

But it's not.

Is it better than nothing? Yeah. In small parts. I don't know that I would recommend anyone doing 90 minutes a day of dynamic tension, though. Or 60. Or even the 30 I used to do. Maybe a minute or two of a specific thing for a specific purpose.


Thirdly if its made up then there is no histroy of it working so the chances of it being usefull are nil, esecpially if its different from other systems that do work such as iron wire etc

To be fair, there's no history of a lot of TCMA stuff working:

http://bodybalancehealingarts.com/sites/default/files/KF%20Adult%20Curric.jpg


It is a well know fact that every MA was made up.
The IW was made up.
It is perfectly fine to state that a form was made up.
There is no reason to lie about the origins unless you are trying to passed it off as some "ancient chinese secret".

This.


This has been done to death in the past but I'll say it again in the public interest: much of what this guy does was not learned--it was videotaped and imitated by him. Some friends showed me some of his videos in the '80s--some were good, some were terrible. Despite using his religion to back up his claims to being a good guy Allen's posturing really irks me. Huge ego, loves to give long pretentious lectures, loves authoritarianism and verbal absolutes but refuses to give a lineage (or even a general source) for the sets he presents because he holds that lineage is not important.

I actually liked his lectures, or at least the one or two I've seen. But I probably only liked them because I agreed with him about the importance of strength training. My mistake was thinking that SW would get me to where I wanted to be.

I don't recall him ever referencing religion, though.


To my mind, the only way to justify that is if his people are knocking 'em out in a ring. Otherwise you can miss the essentials of an art entirely by only trying to copy the moves.

Hasn't there been more than one person to copy things from videotape and rebadge them as their own?

[Scott R. Brown]

So weak...so, very weak. :rolleyes:

Of Course! Everyone is weak, but you!:rolleyes:

You play yourself as the conscience of the BB, but you are no better, and much of the time worse, than those you act superior too!

[lkfmdc]

The Green Dragon stuff truely was terrible.... that is not to say some of the things they did were ok, even good.. BUT, most was just produced to sell on video tape

How many "iron arhats" and "stone warrior" type names filled those catalogues? Names that did not in any way seem like they came from somone who actually spoke Chinese....

The 7 star praying mantis set "Bahk Yun Chut Dong" where the "white ape" was a literary reference to the monkey king but the set was anything but "monkey kung fu"... yet Allen added all sorts of wushu-ey monkey to the set :rolleyes:

[David Jamieson]

Whatever. :rolleyes:

"martial artists"

hahahahaha, that is laughable at times the way the gripes and moans get laid down by "grown men" about subjects they know little if anything about other than some rumour.

That's cool. I'm perfectly willing to let you show exactly who you are at all times. It's very helpful to any reality.

[IronWeasel]

Well, I can tell you that some material is authentic, and came from a lineage.



And other material is, as Sifu Allen states:

"Rare"

"Unique"

and

"Available only at Green Dragon"

So, he isn't lying.

It's just available only at Green Dragon, because that's probably where it originated.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Well, I can tell you that some material is authentic, and came from a lineage.



And other material is, as Sifu Allen states:

"Rare"

"Unique"

and

"Available only at Green Dragon"

So, he isn't lying.

It's just available only at Green Dragon, because that's probably where it originated.

Some parts I have seen in ST qigong sets, some in the IW so I don't doubt that at all.

[lkfmdc]

Well, I can tell you that some material is authentic, and came from a lineage.



Freeman ONg from what I understand....

[David Jamieson]

Well, I can tell you that some material is authentic, and came from a lineage.



And other material is, as Sifu Allen states:

"Rare"

"Unique"

and

"Available only at Green Dragon"

So, he isn't lying.

It's just available only at Green Dragon, because that's probably where it originated.

There' plenty of crap out there and it's from all over. Everything from "my way is the right way" to "this diet works" to "I can bend a sword on my neck and have a brick broken on my head with a hammer!"

All of this is nonsense. Why it is insisted that people point fingers at others while their own clothes are covered in the same blood is beyond me.

I can matter of fact point out people who were steeped in this and keep pointing away from themselves as if their version of the crap flavoured kool-aid was actually better. lol

hence my mocking of those here who mock others for playing in the same garden they themselves are in.

[lkfmdc]

Let's also not forget that Allen photoshopped a picture of himself with Chang Dung Sheng and originally tried to say all his material was inspected and approved of by Chang.....

[Scott R. Brown]

I can matter of fact point out people who were steeped in this and keep pointing away from themselves as if their version of the crap flavoured kool-aid was actually better

The fact is, some Kool-Aid IS better than other Kool-Aid!

The problem then becomes, how to distinguish one from the other!

[Drake]

To expand on what IF said above ( to which I agree with pretty much everything):
Dynamic tension ( isokinetic) strength training has its benefits but they pale ( in terms of building pure strength) to weights simply because there is no "standard" way to progressively increase the resistance, which is crucial for building pure strength.
This is even MORE the case in a set liek SW which is far TOO long to build anything BUT muscular endurance

The issue with isokinetic exercise is that you can't quantify the % of muscle strength you are using, in short you are either doing maximum tension or less than max, but you can't know how much less.

Dynamic tension means that you tense the muscles in a given movement and then move THROUGH the range of motion ( as opposed to isometrics where you stay at a specific point in the ROM). Because you are tensing every muscle you can in a conscious manner, you are ( supposedly) doing more work - take the curl for example:
With weights you work the biceps ( primarily) but the triceps get minimal work.
With DT because you are tensing the triceps also, you give them some work as well ( eccentric to the concentric of the curl).
Again the issue is the % of intensity ( and also time under tension).
Studies have shown that max tension can only be held for about 6-8 seconds and after that, you are not using strength but fighting of fatigue ( endurance), so a move the is using max tension will, typically, last about 3-5 seconds ( depending on the person).
I whole dynamic tension set done with max ( or as close to max as we can) should last, at the most ( for strength purposes) about 10-12 min and that is WITH the pauses needed to "release" the tension between exercies.

It should be noted that the Tit sid kune of Hung Kune follows those parameters very well.


Again, if one is using a DT set to build pure strength ( and there are better methods) then one MUST use max tension ( or as close as we can get) in every move being done to develop the strength, outside that what is being developed is muscular endurance ( fighting off fatigue in the muscles).

I'm stealing this explanation. All of it. And there's nothing you can do about it.

[bawang]

trying to do that "stone warrior" set will fuk you up. bad.


obviously this is aimed at bi curious karate guys, usually try it for 2 weeks and forget it. if you keep "training" this, you will die.

[David Jamieson]

The fact is, some Kool-Aid IS better than other Kool-Aid!

The problem then becomes, how to distinguish one from the other!

The guy that attacks you with a sword whilst you are holding a gun. (metaphorically or otherwise)

This is how you distinguish a fool from others.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'm stealing this explanation. All of it. And there's nothing you can do about it.

Its a free world, steal to your hearts content, LMAO !
It was a very basic explanation but the truth of the matter is that DT has been tried over and over in the ST circles and, well, there are just much better methods to us to build strength.
Body builders use it though to get a nice "pump" in their posing routines.
I think that it is useful within the context of doing a range of motion under load ( tension), something that we can't get really well with weights BUT again, either you are working through max tension ( or as close as possible) or you are not and there isn't really much in-between because you can't quantify a % in DT.

[I Hate Ashida Kim]

The Green Dragon stuff truely was terrible.... that is not to say some of the things they did were ok, even good.. BUT, most was just produced to sell on video tape


I feel like someone once said they watched a Green Dragon demo of some internal set and started laughing at how bad it was.

Would you say Green Dragon's sets are "interpretations" of the styles?


Well, I can tell you that some material is authentic, and came from a lineage.



And other material is, as Sifu Allen states:

"Rare"

"Unique"

and

"Available only at Green Dragon"

So, he isn't lying.

It's just available only at Green Dragon, because that's probably where it originated.

Would you say Green Dragon was trolling the KF world?


Let's also not forget that Allen photoshopped a picture of himself with Chang Dung Sheng and originally tried to say all his material was inspected and approved of by Chang.....

Yes, that's what I was thinking of.

[I Hate Ashida Kim]

trying to do that "stone warrior" set will fuk you up. bad.


Why?

Is there something wrong with it?

[I Hate Ashida Kim]

There' plenty of crap out there and it's from all over. Everything from "my way is the right way" to "this diet works" to "I can bend a sword on my neck and have a brick broken on my head with a hammer!"

All of this is nonsense. Why it is insisted that people point fingers at others while their own clothes are covered in the same blood is beyond me.

I can matter of fact point out people who were steeped in this and keep pointing away from themselves as if their version of the crap flavoured kool-aid was actually better. lol

hence my mocking of those here who mock others for playing in the same garden they themselves are in.

There's no way this post is serious.

"their own clothes are covered in the same blood?" So you mean people who want to learn authentic kung fu shouldn't have the right to know if what they are learning is authentic or not? Their clothes aren't even stained, especially if they're new.

No one is that dumb. A+ trolling.

[David Jamieson]

There's no way this post is serious.

"their own clothes are covered in the same blood?" So you mean people who want to learn authentic kung fu shouldn't have the right to know if what they are learning is authentic or not? Their clothes aren't even stained, especially if they're new.

No one is that dumb. A+ trolling.

"authentic"...This means nothing to me. "Effective" This means something to me.

[I Hate Ashida Kim]

"authentic"...This means nothing to me. "Effective" This means something to me.

That's why I said "if someone wants to learn authentic kung fu" and not "if David Jamieson wants to learn effective kung fu."

[IronFist]

For fun I Googled "Stone Warrior."

What is this?

http://www.martialartsmart.com/dvd-yvs341.html

The description sounds similar to the Green Dragon one. Is it by a Green Dragon student?

[bawang]

Why?

Is there something wrong with it?

for one example, he wiggles his spine like a snake, then tenses his abs and hits it.

you misalign every single one of your spinal discs, and then put pressure on them and squeeze them all.

[IronWeasel]

For fun I Googled "Stone Warrior."

What is this?

http://www.martialartsmart.com/dvd-yvs341.html

The description sounds similar to the Green Dragon one. Is it by a Green Dragon student?


I think he bought some Green Dragon tapes, and reshot them himself to sell.

He sells books and other things, and his text uses buzzwords and slang directly from the video narrative.

[Egg fu young]

It looks like tension kata to me.

[SoCo KungFu]

For fun I Googled "Stone Warrior."

What is this?

http://www.martialartsmart.com/dvd-yvs341.html

The description sounds similar to the Green Dragon one. Is it by a Green Dragon student?

Because I think he put it best


The dweeb who is selling stone warrior is a little skinny stick named Thomas Keen, who is one of Jim Lacy's lunatic lohans.

Stay clear of this person.

I bought the dvd thinking he was affliated with Green Dragon. He is this skinny man who couldnt fight his way out of wet toilet paper.

BEWARE KEEN AND JIM LACY.

[Dale Dugas]

Yeah, I can use very colorful language.

Keen raises many red flags.

Claims to be an 8th dan in Shorin Ryu Karate and the man is in his 40's at best.

Who the heck ever heard of a real 8th dan in a well known Okinawan system at that age?

No one that I know.

oh well. Caveat Emptor.

[David Jamieson]

Claims to be an 8th dan in Shorin Ryu Karate and the man is in his 40's at best.

Who the heck ever heard of a real 8th dan in a well known Okinawan system at that age?


As a former Isshin karateka, I can confirm this. Those levels tend to be conferred on gents past the 60 year mark or more.

8th is really high up there. Even in Shotokan.

[Brule]

Might be best to leave this thread alone considering what has happened around here the last couple of days. A lot of colourful language in it that could cause some to be upset.

[David Jamieson]

Might be best to leave this thread alone considering what has happened around here the last couple of days. A lot of colourful language in it that could cause some to be upset.

If this were the one, it would be gone already. :)

[Brule]

Not saying this was the one, just suggesting to leave it alone is all.

[Kevin73]

Since I was the one who started this thread, I will give my feedback on the "Stone Warrior" program.

It is based on dynamic tension and has you do ALOT of it. My thoughts were that the time would be better spent doing other training. That is NOT to say that dynamic tension doesn't have it's place in your training. My form of karate utilizes Sanchin kata so I was used to the tension idea of training, but even in those styles that use Sanchin they recommend going through it one time in the morning, afternoon, night after you have learned it. NOT spending close to an hour and a half doing it.

If you are really wanting to do different dynamic tension exercises and they aren't a part of your system, I would recommend the old book by Sifu Wong called "Dynamic Strength". It is alot cheaper and the exercises work all of the major groups anyways. http://www.amazon.com/Dynamic-Strength-Harry-Wong/dp/0865680132/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1363871271&sr=1-1&keywords=dynamic+strength

Or I would use Wing Lam's Iron Body training for some good isometric exercises.

Luckily, I was able to pick up the set from ebay for a very low price. I would have been VERY disappointed paying more for it.

[md1]

Part of the system I teach / study are 2 different "dynamic tension " sets plus 52 single DT exercises that are supposed to be our strength training with a combination done daily. Mostly now I just use it to supplement my training instead of it being the be all end all.

I would be willing to bet that if they had the knowledge and the tools we now have they would be training more like the athletes of today.

[David Jamieson]

I would be willing to bet that if they had the knowledge and the tools we now have they would be training more like the athletes of today.

Look how many people are going back in time for training methods though.

Clubs, Kettle Bells, stone balls, stone locks, pinch stones, heavy jars, heavy training weapons, and those aren't even the tip of the iceberg when it comes to devices for training.

I don't think people of today are better or stronger. Heck, we have to force hardship onto ourselves in order to temper our mettle.

Back in the day, life was just tougher an ergo, your average human lived a harder life and was a whole lot tougher than your average human nw. Barring nobility of course who have constantly been soft namby pambys for all time.

Anyway, take a look at the last issue from KFM and check out Master Tu's training hall and devices. You might change your mind about the statement I quoted you on here. :)

[Kevin73]

Look how many people are going back in time for training methods though.

Clubs, Kettle Bells, stone balls, stone locks, pinch stones, heavy jars, heavy training weapons, and those aren't even the tip of the iceberg when it comes to devices for training.

I don't think people of today are better or stronger. Heck, we have to force hardship onto ourselves in order to temper our mettle.

Back in the day, life was just tougher an ergo, your average human lived a harder life and was a whole lot tougher than your average human nw. Barring nobility of course who have constantly been soft namby pambys for all time.

Anyway, take a look at the last issue from KFM and check out Master Tu's training hall and devices. You might change your mind about the statement I quoted you on here. :)

I agree. I looked through a copy of the 72 Consumate Arts of the Shaolin and many of the things listed were equivalents of modern day lifts (squat/deadlift/overhead pressing etc.) I think that much of the conditioning got lost when the business/commercial model took over. It's much easier to sell that ANYONE can do it and the weak always beats the strong if you train in our method. Always kind of ironic if you translate "kung fu" as "hard work" isn't it?

[md1]

Look how many people are going back in time for training methods though.

Anyway, take a look at the last issue from KFM and check out Master Tu's training hall and devices. You might change your mind about the statement I quoted you on here. :)

I guess by that I meant supplementing new and different training Ideas as well as keeping the things of value from KF's past.
There is no question things were more "Raw" back in the day and developed a very Raw strength, tons to be said about that hence the reason why I haven't discarded ANY of my training routines from the days gone bye.

[SoCo KungFu]

I actually used to know the SW exercise. I forget how many reps I actually had built up to but basically I did it every day for about a year. This was about 11 or 12 years ago so its foggy but I think it was taking upwards of 45 min to an hour to finish. All in all, it was a lot of time wasted. Its very hard for me to put on weight, even still as I've gotten slightly older. But in about 5 weeks of regular "traditional" weight training like most of you all have posted on many times here, I had far better results than that year of SW.

Having seen other footage of the Greed Dragon guys, anyone with 3 functional brain cells can see they did not get that big by doing SW, regardless what they claim in the vids.

[IronFist]

I actually used to know the SW exercise. I forget how many reps I actually had built up to but basically I did it every day for about a year. This was about 11 or 12 years ago so its foggy but I think it was taking upwards of 45 min to an hour to finish. All in all, it was a lot of time wasted. Its very hard for me to put on weight, even still as I've gotten slightly older. But in about 5 weeks of regular "traditional" weight training like most of you all have posted on many times here, I had far better results than that year of SW.


My experience matches that exactly.

I did once have someone tell me that the reason I didn't put on much size from Stone Warrior is because I didn't take it all the way up to 36 reps per exercise.

You know, because 36 reps is the magic number. At 35 reps nothing happens, but once you do that 36th rep your body goes "hey, it's time to start getting bigger now!"

But really, a month or so of weight lifting was better in every possible way than a year of Stone Warrior.

Well, unless your goal is to be able to hold dynamic tension for a long time. Stone Warrior is better for that.

To be fair, I was not eating the way I needed to eat to gain mass while I was doing Stone Warrior. Now, that being said, I was not eating the way I needed to eat to gain mass when I started weight lifting, either, yet I still got stronger and bigger in the first month of weight lifting than I did in a year of Stone Warrior. Even if I was eating a lot more food while I was doing Stone Warrior, long dynamic tension sets do not provide the proper stimulus for muscle growth or raw strength increase so it wouldn't have made a difference.

So my diet was the same for both.

To reiterate:

Stone Warrior pros:
- it's kind of cool
- develops the ability to hold dynamic tension for long periods of time (if that's your goal)

Stone Warrior cons:
- doesn't really build strength or size despite all the hype
- depending on how long you do it, holding all that constant tension for long periods of time may actually be bad for you (no evidence here, just a guess... cuz come on... holding tension at "100% effort" for 90 minutes can't be good for you). And make sure you breathe! Holding your breath during this stuff isn't good.
- takes forever. You could drive to the gym, lift weights, shower, and drive back home in less time than it takes to do the complete Stone Warrior set
- dynamic tension may be helpful when it comprises a small (less than 5%) portion of your workout, but not when it's the entire thing

Weight lifting pros:
- proven size and/or strength building exercise
- you can evaluate your progress (for example, last week I could lift 100lbs and this week I can lift 105 pounds, therefore I got stronger)
- doesn't take that much time

Weight lifting cons:
- you can injure yourself with bad form

Overall I wouldn't really recommend Stone Warrior to anyone except maybe as an occasional variety thing. Maybe if done without tension it could be a good general workout like a slow form.

[SoCo KungFu]

Lol I remember one day my brother and I challenged each other to see who could do 100 reps of each motion. We both ended up making it through around the same time, no surprise we were pacing off each other. At the end it was cool for all of about 5 minutes and then I couldn't help but wonder wtf the point of that was. Wasted a perfectly beautiful Saturday.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Although not Stone Warrior, I have done dynamic tension training when I was exploring the Hakka Tai Tzu stuff.

What I found is that is develops a "Packing" of power, which is violently released like an explosion going off.

However, the way I was taught, was to train the tension/packing aspect, followed by the violent release of it, rather than trying to stay tense through 100% of the motion. I was also taught some specific applications where this is used in the techniques, so I know when to do what.

I never seemed to get any muscular development, so far as strength is concerned. Most of the power was developed in the core.

When inter mixed with weight lifting, I noticed faster gains though...but I think thats just because I was doing more in the same workout just due to the addition of it into an otherwise unchanged lifting routine.

What it did develop was the violent release of all that packed in tension during the execution of various techniques that used it. Most were in super close and were launched fairly quickly, like in the time it takes to sneeze. In fact, in application it does sort of "Feel" like your entire body did in fact just sneeze.

One thing I have noticed about that style of training, is that it seems to make it so you do not feel impacts anywhere near as much. So outside of some very sport specific bio/mechanical training, for those using techniques that require that type of power generation; I can see that it would develop some greater Iron Body skills if taken to an extreme.

[Kevin73]

I will have to find the study, but I just recently read study about the benefits of dynamic tension. Basically the study showed that it did not increase muscle size, if trained as an isometric exercise it was beneficial in increasing strength at the point of the hold to help athletes get over their sticking points.

It also allowed more muscle fibers to be recruited to "flex" which helps with the neuro path ways and indirectly lead to more strength through traditional lifting techniques.

I can't remember the last part of it, but it had to do with increasing beneficial hormones in the body that would help with recuperation and muscle building when coupled with traditional lifting techniques.

[bawang]

I can't remember the last part of it, but it had to do with increasing beneficial hormones in the body that would help with recuperation and muscle building when coupled with traditional lifting techniques.

this is the main benefit i get from qigong sets, both soft and "hard" qigong.

i do it after weight lifting and it reduces muscle and joint soreness and i recover faster

[Bernard]

this is the main benefit i get from qigong sets, both soft and "hard" qigong.

i do it after weight lifting and it reduces muscle and joint soreness and i recover faster

Do you both soft and hard qigong after your workout of just soft. These days I usually go for a light run or do some laps in the swimming pool. It seems to help me recover faster.

[bawang]

Do you both soft and hard qigong after your workout of just soft. These days I usually go for a light run or do some laps in the swimming pool. It seems to help me recover faster.

i do hard when i dont have access to gym. i do soft after weightlifting. i also run and take contrast hot/cold showers to help blood flow.


keep in mind that i customize my qigong. stuff like iron wire is not gonna help you.

[Bernard]

i do hard when i dont have access to gym. i do soft after weightlifting.

Any particular qigong form? Can you use a taijiquan form?

[bawang]

Any particular qigong form? Can you use a taijiquan form?

no, i learned proper qigong from real teacher, then customized the exercizes.

[Bernard]

no, i learned proper qigong from real teacher, then customized the exercizes.

Thanks. Are the movements of the qigong similar to the movements of your weightlighting routine? I guess I'll have to stick to running or swimming.

[bawang]

Thanks. Are the movements of the qigong similar to the movements of your weightlighting routine?
yes


I guess I'll have to stick to running or swimming.
qigong is supposed to increase your growth hormone level, thats its main benefit i want to get.

[Scott R. Brown]

Thanks. Are the movements of the qigong similar to the movements of your weightlighting routine? I guess I'll have to stick to running or swimming.

There is not much better than easy swimming for workout recovery!

[Scott R. Brown]

qigong is supposed to increase your growth hormone level, thats its main benefit i want to get.

Still trying to grow taller are you?

[bawang]

There is not much better than easy swimming for workout recovery!

if you can swim after your workout, it wasnt a good workout.


Still trying to grow taller are you?

im trying to grow longer

[Scott R. Brown]

if you can swim after your workout, it wasnt a good workout.

If you are that exhausted after every workout you will not be stimulating testosterone production, you will diminish its production, and thus grow smaller!:eek:


im trying to grow longer

That was my second guess!

[Bernard]

There is not much better than easy swimming for workout recovery!

I believe so. My workout usually consist of dynamic stretches for warmups, weightlifting (sets of heavy weights for a few reps) followed by cardio.


if you can swim after your workout, it wasnt a good workout.



im trying to grow longer

So that what it's for? ;)

[bawang]

If you are that exhausted after every workout you will not be stimulating testosterone production, you will diminish its production, and thus grow smaller!:eek:




how the hell do you run and swim after bench press and squat? are you cyborg with robot joints and battery powered muscles?

[bawang]

I believe so. My workout usually consist of dynamic stretches for warmups, weightlifting (sets of heavy weights for a few reps) followed by cardio.


everybody is different, for me personally i would get injured or overtrain if i do any tiring exercises after, and i figured out my personal limits from trial and error.

[Scott R. Brown]

how the hell do you run and swim after bench press and squat? are you cyborg with robot joints and battery powered muscles?

You mean you are not?

The swimming is EASY swimming. It is for recovery assistance NOT conditioning!

[Bernard]

everybody is different, for me personally i would get injured or overtrain if i do any tiring exercises after, and i figured out my personal limits from trial and error.

I usually go by feeling too. I like to finish my workout feeling like I'm ready for my day. For example, I may feel like I have enough to do two more sets if I push myself but I'll stop right there. Same with my cardio.

[bawang]

You mean you are not?

The swimming is EASY swimming. It is for recovery assistance NOT conditioning!

im scared of water, i only learned doggie paddle for survival.

swimming isnt gonna give you natural sterodz and power of 9 ronnie colemans. meditation does mang


also i do light repetition work after i do heavy weights, so i get cramps if i run

[Scott R. Brown]

im scared of water, i only learned doggie paddle for survival.

swimming isnt gonna give you natural sterodz and power of 9 ronnie colemans. meditation does mang

No it won't, but even doggie paddle in 3 feet of water is good for you. Remember it is for recovery assistance. If you want to be like ronnie coleman and do your professor in the poop shoot, you want to recover as quickly from your workouts as you can in order to workout again as soon as possible in order to increase your testosterone so you will get longer and be a heman like ronnie and teach your sexist, racist professor what a REAL man can do to.......er I mean, for her!

[bawang]

No it won't, but even doggie paddle in 3 feet of water is good for you. Remember it is for recovery assistance. If you want to be like ronnie coleman and do your professor in the poop shoot, you want to recover as quickly from your workouts as you can in order to workout again as soon as possible in order to increase your testosterone so you will get longer and be a heman like ronnie and teach your sexist, racist professor what a REAL man can do to.......er I mean, for her!

i find any cardio for me just exhausts me and leads to overtraining.

to increase testosterone, i massage my testicles. (srs)

[Scott R. Brown]

i find any cardio for me just exhausts me and leads to overtraining.

LOL!!! It is NOT cardio!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

It is barely exercise! It only takes about 5-10 minutes of doggie paddle or breaststroke. I am not even sure how or why it works with recovery, but it does. It reduces after weights muscle soreness! Try it in your backyard wadding pool. That might be shallow enough for you!:D

[Scott R. Brown]

to increase testosterone, i massage my testicles. (srs)

You are supposed to ask your sexist, racist professor to do that for you!

[bawang]

LOL!!! It is NOT cardio!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

It is barely exercise! It only takes about 5-10 minutes of doggie paddle or breaststroke. I am not even sure how or why it works with recovery, but it does. It reduces after weights muscle soreness! Try it in your backyard wadding pool. That might be shallow enough for you!:D

dood, its just a preference. im just answering a question. bernard asks who uses qigong for weightlifting, i said i do.


You are supposed to ask your sexist, racist professor to do that for you!

this is actually real qigong.

[Kellen Bassette]

i find any cardio for me just exhausts me and leads to overtraining.

to increase testosterone, i massage my testicles. (srs)

One of those weight lifters...:rolleyes:
No cardio, building the car without an engine. My brother has been lifting for years. I made him do one 3 minute round of Thai pads and he collapsed on the floor for like 20 minutes after. Now I force him to run after lifting.

[Scott R. Brown]

One of those weight lifters...:rolleyes:
No cardio, building the car without an engine. My brother has been lifting for years. I made him do one 3 minute round of Thai pads and he collapsed on the floor for like 20 minutes after. Now I force him to run after lifting.

Yeah, but it doesn't have to be immediately after lifting. It can be later in the day, or on non-lifting days!

[JamesC]

everybody is different, for me personally i would get injured or overtrain if i do any tiring exercises after, and i figured out my personal limits from trial and error.

Bawang most people don't squat correctly so it isn't nearly as taxing. Most people don't add weight to the bar every workout either and just do the same weight every time.

[Kellen Bassette]

True that Scott.

[bawang]

Bawang most people don't squat correctly so it isn't nearly as taxing. Most people don't add weight to the bar every workout either and just do the same weight every time.

they dont know what it feel to be true warrior.

when i squat, i am like supersayan.

[IronFist]

I will have to find the study, but I just recently read study about the benefits of dynamic tension. Basically the study showed that it did not increase muscle size, if trained as an isometric exercise it was beneficial in increasing strength at the point of the hold to help athletes get over their sticking points.

Like I said, it has its purpose as a small component of a strength training program.

For example, if someone has a sticking point in the middle of their bench press (meaning the bar gets stuck halfway up), specific isometric exercises (which is different than dynamic tension) done at certain angles may help them overcome that sticking point by building strength specifically at that angle.

Let me specifically point out the following from that example:

1) isometric is different from dynamic tension. Isometric is pushing against an immoveable force. Dynamic tension is your muscles contracting against themselves and both the muscle and its antagonist are contracting.

2) that is used as a small percentage of the strength training program, eg., overcoming a specific sticking point on a specific exercise

None of this means doing dynamic tension will make you bigger and/or stronger.


I can't remember the last part of it, but it had to do with increasing beneficial hormones in the body that would help with recuperation and muscle building when coupled with traditional lifting techniques.

All exercises increase hormones. People get all hung up on what exercise does it the most. It's not going to make a big enough difference, so just do the exercises that benefit you the best. Whatever exercise you're doing to increase those hormones, you're still getting the benefit of working the muscles, too.

[Bernard]

they dont know what it feel to be true warrior.

when i squat, i am like supersayan.

So you become blond with blue eyes?!?

http://www.craigaddyman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/288772-super_saiyan_2_veigto.jpg

[IronFist]

qigong is supposed to increase your growth hormone level, thats its main benefit i want to get.

That's why there are no skinny qigong practitioners and they are all huge bodybuilder looking dudes.

[IronFist]

if you can swim after your workout, it wasnt a good workout.

Uh, no.

You don't have to go to failure or even exhaustion to have a "good workout" (depending on what your goals are).

In fact, regularly going to failure/exhaustion will limit your overall gains.

[bawang]

That's why there are no skinny qigong practitioners and they are all huge bodybuilder looking dudes.

chen xiaowang is ripped and jacked bro

[Frost]

One of those weight lifters...:rolleyes:
No cardio, building the car without an engine. My brother has been lifting for years. I made him do one 3 minute round of Thai pads and he collapsed on the floor for like 20 minutes after. Now I force him to run after lifting.

Maybe you should read the whole thread next time :)
earlier on Bawang said

i do hard when i dont have access to gym. i do soft after weightlifting. i also run and take contrast hot/cold showers to help blood flow.

And I bet if your brother put you under a 400 pound squat your ass would get stapled to the floor so quickly your cardio wouldn’t get a chance to help you out, horses for courses
:)

[Kellen Bassette]

Maybe you should read the whole thread next time :)
earlier on Bawang said


I actually did read, that. Then I immediately forgot when i read with horror that Bawang doesn't do cardio. :p

A thousand apologies....

[Kellen Bassette]

And I bet if your brother put you under a 400 pound squat your ass would get stapled to the floor so quickly your cardio wouldn’t get a chance to help you out, horses for courses
:)

Fortunately I have no plans of trying to lift 400 pounds of anything in the near future. :D Wasn't bragging on my cardio...I'm never happy with it...was just making fun of his. :)

[Frost]

Fortunately I have no plans of trying to lift 400 pounds of anything in the near future. :D Wasn't bragging on my cardio...I'm never happy with it...was just making fun of his. :)

i dont know your brother but most weight lifters i know dont have any plans to pay tag with some thai pads for 3 minutes either :)

[Frost]

I actually did read, that. Then I immediately forgot when i read with horror that Bawang doesn't do cardio. :p

A thousand apologies....

well if he is doing kung fu and sparring thats sort of cardio :)

[Kellen Bassette]

i dont know your brother but most weight lifters i know dont have any plans to pay tag with some thai pads for 3 minutes either :)

I'm laid off now, so I got some more time. We both need workout partners, so I lift with him and do his workout, then we go to the ring and do my workout.