Wan Kam Leung Practical Wing Chun lll

[Ernie]

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxp4SJt7V7M

enjoy

[HardWork8]

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxp4SJt7V7M

enjoy

Great master with many fight finishing moves and excellent body unity.

Did you see the phoenix eye strike to the throat? Is that typical of Yip Man Wing Chun?

[CFT]

Yip Man's Foshan students, e.g. Lun Gai, emphasizes the phoenix eye punch. It is used in the first 2 forms that I know of (I didn't learn the other ones).

[KPM]

Thanks Ernie! Good clip!



Yip Man's Foshan students, e.g. Lun Gai, emphasizes the phoenix eye punch. It is used in the first 2 forms that I know of (I didn't learn the other ones).

The phoenix eye fist plays a significant role in Wing Chun Mantis. :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

I've always liked Sifu Leung's WC, always fast and powerful, lost of forward angling pressure and lot's of PE fists.
Too bad I haven't seen it VS non-WC.

[HardWork8]

Yip Man's Foshan students, e.g. Lun Gai, emphasizes the phoenix eye punch. It is used in the first 2 forms that I know of (I didn't learn the other ones).


Interesting, in Siu Lam Wing Chun the phoenix eye manifests itself in the Biu Jee level (together with leopard and Dragon Fist as well as Tiger Claw techniques).

The opening of the Biu Jee (not my level yet) includes a Phoenix Eye strike.

[KPM]

Interesting, in Siu Lam Wing Chun the phoenix eye manifests itself in the Biu Jee level (together with leopard and Dragon Fist as well as Tiger Claw techniques).

The opening of the Biu Jee (not my level yet) includes a Phoenix Eye strike.

In Augustine Fong's version of Yip Man WCK, the Phoenix Eye strike is in the 2nd half of the dummy form as well as the Biu Gee form.

[couch]

In Augustine Fong's version of Yip Man WCK, the Phoenix Eye strike is in the 2nd half of the dummy form as well as the Biu Gee form.

I think I remember my Sifu mentioning Phoenix Eye in BJ as well. Just briefly, though.

[k gledhill]

excellent ...! his cutting strikes that flank the arms :D:D:D subtle

[couch]

excellent ...! his cutting strikes that flank the arms :D:D:D subtle

That's that 'cutting' tactic that you keep bringing up!

Your favorite!

Best,
Kenton

[k gledhill]

The reason for doing chi-sao...developmental , systematic , 'stages' ..... WKL is stopping when he gets the student turned ... both arms can do this once the side is 'taken' ...if the student attempts to turn against the strikes the other side is attacked using the same idea, without stopping with a 'hard' block ...let the guy turn and open himself up .You just keep shooting . Ideally the student would counter with his /her own cutting strikes attacking the attacking strike....training with each other for this end...not trying to stick or over trap ...good stuff.

[bennyvt]

theres a story about when YIP man was teaching and hit a water tower with a pheonix fist and left a big dent.
You can see were it would fit in CK in the first section after the two jum sao's we do it with a finger strike (normally used to pass over a strike which is how the fut san people use it. Also as a eye gouge.) Sifu Gwok Fu mentioned that he taught it in fut san but changed it to the punch we do due to economy and the fact the elbow can be kept down which can be used as a block. As the pheonix fist gluides over the opponents and does not deviate the attack as much as the normal punch.

[couch]

The reason for doing chi-sao...developmental , systematic , 'stages' ..... WKL is stopping when he gets the student turned ... both arms can do this once the side is 'taken' ...if the student attempts to turn against the strikes the other side is attacked using the same idea, without stopping with a 'hard' block ...let the guy turn and open himself up .You just keep shooting . Ideally the student would counter with his /her own cutting strikes attacking the attacking strike....training with each other for this end...not trying to stick or over trap ...good stuff.

I can see the logic. But doesn't this require an over-committed punch?

Just for my own sake, I have been watching this basic cutting motion for some time after you talking about it. My only question is how do you pull this cutting action off when you have someone who is locked on the centre and not turning themselves? Do you make them not face you either with a step or by moving them? Are there other options?

(Might be a heck of a lot easier to show than to talk about it on the forum)

Best,
Kenton

[k gledhill]

I can see the logic. But doesn't this require an over-committed punch?

Just for my own sake, I have been watching this basic cutting motion for some time after you talking about it. My only question is how do you pull this cutting action off when you have someone who is locked on the centre and not turning themselves? Do you make them not face you either with a step or by moving them? Are there other options?

(Might be a heck of a lot easier to show than to talk about it on the forum)

Best,
Kenton

You mean in chi sao ? or fighting from no pre-contact ?

[KPM]

theres a story about when YIP man was teaching and hit a water tower with a pheonix fist and left a big dent.
You can see were it would fit in CK in the first section after the two jum sao's we do it with a finger strike (normally used to pass over a strike which is how the fut san people use it. Also as a eye gouge.) Sifu Gwok Fu mentioned that he taught it in fut san but changed it to the punch we do due to economy and the fact the elbow can be kept down which can be used as a block. As the pheonix fist gluides over the opponents and does not deviate the attack as much as the normal punch.

See my comments about the Phoenix Eye Fist on the Wing Chun Mantis thread.

[couch]

You mean in chi sao ? or fighting from no pre-contact ?

To (hopefully) prevent too complex an explanation, how about like in the video - Chi Sau.

[k gledhill]

we can angle etc..we also allow the guy to move and simply cut into the space his mistakes make. Overturning, wrists try to block [ 'elbows in' in SLT for a reason] .
The tan & Jum are our strikes , one takes the elbow off the line, the other on the line .
Together , either side they control the line while striking in rotation.
We can use seung ma toi ma drills to build angling to centered lines of force coming at us randomly from either side, each partner does this to make it instinctive....step in / angle back and to the sides while striking the attempted strike. The strike can be any combo of techniques while angling in or offline to the given line of force by your partner...
actually quite hard to master but easy to understand.. the better you get the more aligned you feel, while your structured counters and attacks focus point increases to make you a whole unit attacking on a line , not just an arm hinging at the shoulder when it meets force and goes off target...
Philipp Bayer is a great example of what can be achieved by this training.

got to go striped bass fishing , more later...

[couch]

we can angle etc..we also allow the guy to move and simply cut into the space his mistakes make. Overturning, wrists try to block [ 'elbows in' in SLT for a reason] .
The tan & Jum are our strikes , one takes the elbow off the line, the other on the line .
Together , either side they control the line while striking in rotation.
We can use seung ma toi ma drills to build angling to centered lines of force coming at us randomly from either side, each partner does this to make it instinctive....step in / angle back and to the sides while striking the attempted strike. The strike can be any combo of techniques while angling in or offline to the given line of force by your partner...
actually quite hard to master but easy to understand.. the better you get the more aligned you feel, while your sturtured counters and attacks increases to make you a whole unit , not just an arm hinging at the shoulder when it meets force and goes off target...
Philipp Bayer is a great example of what can be achieved by this training.

got to go striped bass fishing , more later...

Great explanation!

Enjoy the fishing trip.


We'll chat more soon,
Kenton

[Miss Moyinggerk]

More clips with Sifu Wan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTu31OL73jM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIR8aPOKGn8

[Kris Wu Tang]

Yip Man's Foshan students, e.g. Lun Gai, emphasizes the phoenix eye punch. It is used in the first 2 forms that I know of (I didn't learn the other ones).

thats correct, I study the foshan method, 'phonenix eye' is the main punch used as its most efficient and direct. You have to learn how to use it properly otherwise you will break your fingers.

[couch]

thats correct, I study the foshan method, 'phonenix eye' is the main punch used as its most efficient and direct. You have to learn how to use it properly otherwise you will break your fingers.

A long-time friend and Kung-Fu practitioner went to a Bak Mei school. First they were taught how to hold the Phoenix Eye punch and then how to pressure test it.

He was taught to perform wall push-ups with the punch and then eventually graduate to the floor.

This, plus 'ging' exercises in the forms and learning to break chopsticks while holding them in a fist made him quite an adversary.

Best,
Kenton

[sanjuro_ronin]

A long-time friend and Kung-Fu practitioner went to a Bak Mei school. First they were taught how to hold the Phoenix Eye punch and then how to pressure test it.

He was taught to perform wall push-ups with the punch and then eventually graduate to the floor.

This, plus 'ging' exercises in the forms and learning to break chopsticks while holding them in a fist made him quite an adversary.

Best,
Kenton

The PE fist (along with the dragon's fist and leopard's fist, or panther if you prefer) are "force multipliers" that must be conditioned.
Correct formation is crucial as is correct impact area.
Push-ups on them is a great way to get that "structural integrity".
I would add doing the PE fist ( or any other) to an Iron Palm type bag, then the hanging bag filled with sand and then the hanging bag filled with steel shot.
Even the HB is great when the PE fist is developed enough for it.
Impact training is vital, just start slow and relaxed.

[Phil Redmond]

Nice techniques down the middle and on the blindside.

[couch]

Nice techniques down the middle and on the blindside.

The more I train in WC, the more I see the need for both a TWC and WC approach. Not just to get Victor going on his soap box again(just kidding, bro), but I see the need for both because of two scenarios:

1. The 'let's step outside and fight' approach. I think the "longer-range-ness" of TWC addresses sparring and a longer range fight that might ensue when two parties are ready. Not to say it can't function at shorter distances, though.

2. The "sucker-punch" approach. Where you have someone in your face beaking off and takes a swing at you. The WC has a shorter "range" and more crash and bash down the middle.

It's amazing that both are used so well apart and together.

Anywho...off to put needles in people. :p Sometimes I can't believe I do this for a living. LOL!

[KPM]

The PE fist (along with the dragon's fist and leopard's fist, or panther if you prefer) are "force multipliers" that must be conditioned.
Correct formation is crucial as is correct impact area.
Push-ups on them is a great way to get that "structural integrity".
I would add doing the PE fist ( or any other) to an Iron Palm type bag, then the hanging bag filled with sand and then the hanging bag filled with steel shot.
Even the HB is great when the PE fist is developed enough for it.
Impact training is vital, just start slow and relaxed.

Why? Most of the targets struck with the PE are "soft" targets. You shouldn't be slamming the PE into something as hard as a rock. With the exercises you mention you're just asking for long-term damage to the joints that isn't necessary.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Why? Most of the targets struck with the PE are "soft" targets. You shouldn't be slamming the PE into something as hard as a rock. With the exercises you mention you're just asking for long-term damage to the joints that isn't necessary.

Well, first off, you don't slam anything, just like IP, its not a "hit it hard" training, though you may/should TEST it hard.
Sure all the targets are soft, and in an ideal world all we hit is what we aim for, BUT since none of us live in this ideal world...
Fact is, all the soft spots are protected by hard spots around it, look at the ribs, what protects them? The elbows of the person you are striking, all head targets can be run into the top part of the head, much harder than any soft target.
Then or course there is the fact that if you DON'T drill the PE fist, or any other specialty fist, you don't know if it will hold up under pressure.
My HK teacher is in his late 60's, and his hands are well forged and his violin and guitar playing is quite good.