Canadian legal system on da crack

[Black Jack II]

Check this out, if you want some of this teat to suck on, you are going to get it with the kind of far left judges, supporters and viewpoints that come from Obama's camp.

In a world where it becomes about social law and how people will take your business of child rearing and interject their own viewpoints on what is right and what is not right for you to do.

What this judge did was reprehensible and he just totally made this idiot kid a non-productive member of society in one fell swoop.

Good going you ignorant fool:rolleyes:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23887814-5005961,00.html

I also remember reading somewhere that the House of Commons just passed or is trying to pass a no-spanking bill....:p

[David Jamieson]

How do you feel when you see some frustrated woman wailing on her screaming child in a store?

Do you know the number of kids that die from abuse every year?

ya gotta set the level of zero tolerance somewhere and like any assault, spanking will be illegal too.

good, stop assaulting kids is how I see it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I am on the fence on this one, every so often I need to remind my little one that Daddy isn't one of her little school friends and a little slap on the butt usually does it.
I think I may have triple slapped her butt once when she did something really bad when I told her not to do it 3 times ( she never did it again).
Of course I don't really hit her hard at all, just enough to get her attention, though one time she moved and my fingers ( I don't use the palm) got marked on her butt, I felt like crap for days...:(
I've smacked her in the butt in public too when she doesn't head the verbal warning to behave.
Of course if some one wants to try and stop me from discipling my child, they can try.

[Old Noob]

How do you feel when you see some frustrated woman wailing on her screaming child in a store?

Do you know the number of kids that die from abuse every year?

ya gotta set the level of zero tolerance somewhere and like any assault, spanking will be illegal too.

good, stop assaulting kids is how I see it.

I agree with the sentiment of your point but it seems that if we're going to strive to reduce/eliminate corporal punishment then other options ought not to be interfered with. If grouding is unavailable as an option, I can see a frustrated parent backsliding to corporal punishment. I would think this ruling could increase risk to children rather than decrease it.

I don't spank my kid but if I thought a court was going to injoin my "time out" then I'd be a bit put out.

[SimonM]

Canadian judges have a lot of power.

Not everyone in Canada likes it that way.

Some people do.

The Quebecois judges, in particular, make relatively... ahem... interventionist decisions on occasion. They intervened in a couple of cases where parents wanted to give their kids REALLY STUPID names for example.

However I doubt there will be any "anti-grounding" legislation any time soon.

[Black Jack II]

How do you feel when you see some frustrated woman wailing on her screaming child in a store?

What does this have to do with the topic?

I feel bad for the lady if you want an answer but her kid is misbehaving.


Do you know the number of kids that die from abuse every year?

Their is a vast difference between spanking a child in a responsible manner and beating your child. That style of comment is the same anti-gun advocates use and it does not fly.


ya gotta set the level of zero tolerance somewhere and like any assault, spanking will be illegal too.

good, stop assaulting kids is how I see it.

Spanking is not an assault. When you come to understand that fact then this will be more clear.

People really should mind their own business on how other's decide to raise there own children within a reasonable guidline.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

My daughter was uncontrollable without periodic spankings. She laughed at any other punishment.

I never hesitated to spank her when she needed it. Often it was the only way to get her to do her school work.

With her I had to appeal to her sense of logic. School work had to be the easier of the tow options, or she would not do it. NO OTHER PUNISHMENT would have corrected the problem.

I tried everything in the books, form time outs, to taking things away she treasured, to talking about our problems and feelings, to everything. ONLY ooutting her over my knee and spanking her silly had any effect whatso ever.

infact most of the other options just made her worse because she had no fear of any of the other punishments.

For example, we took her video games away once. She cares for about minutes. when the decision came to either do her work, or live without the video games, she just layed around the house whining incessively how board she was.

It was no effort on her part, and drove me insane. Taking more things away form her to get her to stop whining failed miserably as well, and so did time outs.

I tried making her do writing assignments as punishments, but she would just sit there and throw a fir on the char and not write anything.

Spanking her for not complying with her other punishments, however, got her to suffer through them, AND do her school work.

Spanking is something thta just has to be done from time to time.

if it was nessasary for my daughter, I am sure it is necessary for most kids.

[SimonM]

Spanking is not an assault. When you come to understand that fact then this will be more clear.


The simple fact of it is that according to Canadian law spanking constitutes an assault.

Ergo it is an assualt. At least in Canada.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The simple fact of it is that according to Canadian law spanking constitutes an assault.

Ergo it is an assualt. At least in Canada.

Has anyone ever been charged?

[Black Jack II]

Wrong.

It is not an assault in Canada.

Dip****'s want to make it one.

[SimonM]

Spanking has been interpreted as assault in Canada by the courts for nearly a decade.

[Old Noob]

Spanking has been interpreted as assault in Canada by the courts for nearly a decade.

Yeah but BJII said "uh uh" so you must be wrong. Right? I can't keep up.

[SimonM]

Right, a paleo-con in the States knows more about Canadian judicial system than a Canadian living in Canada.

[Black Jack II]

Here are the stipulations put down by the Canadian Court as of Jan 30th 2004.

New guidelines laid down Jan. 30 2004 by the Supreme Court of Canada on the "reasonable" use of force to discipline children:

- Parents will not face criminal charges for "minor" corporal punishment of children aged two through 12.

- Corporal punishment unacceptable for children under two and for teenagers.

- No use of implements other than the open hand, such as rulers or belts.

- No striking of child on face or head.

- Discipline must be for "educational" or "corrective" purposes, not motivated by anger or frustration.

- There must be no lasting bodily harm.

- Punishment must not be "inhuman" or "degrading."

- Corporal punishment in schools is unacceptable. Teachers may restrain students, for example to escort them from classroom, but must not hit them.

Source: Canadian Press

[Black Jack II]

BTW-Whoever said paleo-con may be the first "ever" on KFO to get it as close to the button as they can.

With a few exceptions as I don't like labels, such as I support school-choice vouchers.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Here are the stipulations put down by the Canadian Court as of Jan 30th 2004.

New guidelines laid down Jan. 30 2004 by the Supreme Court of Canada on the "reasonable" use of force to discipline children:

- Parents will not face criminal charges for "minor" corporal punishment of children aged two through 12.

- Corporal punishment unacceptable for children under two and for teenagers.

- No use of implements other than the open hand, such as rulers or belts.

- No striking of child on face or head.

- Discipline must be for "educational" or "corrective" purposes, not motivated by anger or frustration.

- There must be no lasting bodily harm.

- Punishment must not be "inhuman" or "degrading."

- Corporal punishment in schools is unacceptable. Teachers may restrain students, for example to escort them from classroom, but must not hit them.

Source: Canadian Press

Sounds about right if I recall correctly.
Not that I recall any case of charges one way or another.

[David Jamieson]

corporal punishment was also removed from teh school system before I even finished school. I'm 44 now, so that was a long time ago.

I guess we just don't believe in beating kids up here and we don't believe in becoming so frustrated that there is no other way to control the behaviour of someone who weighs 30 lbs. :rolleyes:

Advocation of beating a kid in whatever fashion is advocating child abuse. If you aren't smart enough to come up with behaviour modifications other than physical harm, then the critical error in thinking is your own. In my opinion and that of the Supreme Court of Canada as well.

[mantis108]

corporal punishment was also removed from teh school system before I even finished school. I'm 44 now, so that was a long time ago.

I guess we just don't believe in beating kids up here and we don't believe in becoming so frustrated that there is no other way to control the behaviour of someone who weighs 30 lbs. :rolleyes:

Advocation of beating a kid in whatever fashion is advocating child abuse. If you aren't smart enough to come up with behaviour modifications other than physical harm, then the critical error in thinking is your own. In my opinion and that of the Supreme Court of Canada as well.

well, technically there is a difference between beating any kid other than your own without his or her consents, which would amount to abuse, and a kid of your own with or without consent. For easier premise, we only focus on without consent for now. In the case of somebody else child, it can be argued that it is an assault and possibly an abuse. This is not necessarily true in the case of your own child since it would depend on the definition of "a person". Is the child considered legally "a person" which implies he/she is independent. If the child is indeed "a person" as an legal entity (remember that mean independence), hitting him/her is of course illegal. But is a child really independent of his/her parent(s)? If the child is really independent, then why should the parent(s) raises him/her including clothing, feeding, educating? Is the state in effect saying that it is going to "devoice" a child from the parent(s)? Is it the policy of the state to break down family ties? That's Society's law (or a mob law) what about Divine law? That fact that child came to being from the a parent's womb and the responsibility is placed upon the parent not anyone else and certainly not the states. It is one thing to establish the right to judge and punish is in the hands of the court of law and it is another to infringe on the divine right of a parent to guild his/her own flesh and blood with evenhandedness. There has to be a balance and limit to society's law. Or else society eventually would turn into fascist state.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Who cares what any government says? The discipline your children will show is dependent on the discipline you exercise now. Exercise discipline, discipline your children, your children will be disciplined and become rather well-rounded individuals. You can never control your children, but you can teach them self-control. Lavish physical abuse isn't needed, but a cuff and spanking now and then isn't out of order.

By discipline I don't mean go to church every Sunday, pray every night, don't drink and drive, or any other superficial detail.

I mean: do not go to excesses, emotional or physical. Maintain civility. Punish excesses by deprivation. Avoid spoiling children; avoid depriving children. Do not let them sit indoors all day. Teach them something, anything--arts, music, MA, sports....but you must be the teacher (why is this important? Because you're learning right beside your kid, and your involved in what he/she's involved in). Support their interests, and push them to other interests (they will thank you later). Broaden their horizons, even when they're broader than your own.

[David Jamieson]

Nope, physical discipline exercised upon a child is a use of force. Spanking is unnecessary and the thinking around it needs to change.

A government is a vehicle of the will of the people.
If the will of the people is to stop depending on corporal punishment as a form of valid discipline , then so be it.

If we are incapable of moving beyond the use of inflicted force to modify behaviour then we may as well just end it now. We have to evolve as a society and move forward.

It's not the government criminalizing abusive parents, it is the will of the people exercising itself through becoming rule of law.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Nope, physical discipline exercised upon a child is a use of force. Spanking is unnecessary and the thinking around it needs to change.

A government is a vehicle of the will of the people.
If the will of the people is to stop depending on corporal punishment as a form of valid discipline , then so be it.

If we are incapable of moving beyond the use of inflicted force to modify behaviour then we may as well just end it now. We have to evolve as a society and move forward.

It's not the government criminalizing abusive parents, it is the will of the people exercising itself through becoming rule of law.

I don't agree. If a child has a tendency to reach across the table to grab the salt, reaching over a guest's plate, you should slap the hand as it reaches. Some subconscious things are best conditioned that way.

Take MA. All the talking in the world won't teach you to keep your hands up so much as a straight to the nose....:D

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Agreed.

You have to rais your children based on "Thier" nature, not the nature we wish they had.

In my case, my daughter allways needed a firm hand. I wish "time out's" would have worked, God knows it would have been one hell of a lot easier on me. But they didn't, neither did writing assignmeents, grooundings, taking toys are possesions away, keeping her from gymnastics. NONE of that did anything but make her behavior worse.

I had to suck it up and giver her the only thing that worked, so I spanked her.

Those of you who don't have kids, you won't understand this, but it WAS harder on me, than on her...by along shot.

She always had a way out of it, by just doing her homework, or responding to lessor punishments (I always started with the lessor ones in the hopes I would not have to put myself through the spanking trauma), and she allways refused to behave untill she was spanked.

You can wish anything you want, but children NEED corporal punishment when they need it, and nothing else will be able to replace it.

In addition to my experiences, in my 40 years on this earth have seen other kids raised by other adults. Without fail, the adults who refused to spank thier kids when they needed it had problem children who later turned to drugs, truancy, failing grades reckless and rebellious behavior, severely bad attitudes and little to no respect for authority. They are no different than abused kids who get beat for no reason or just because parents are just angry.

[David Jamieson]

Agreed.

You can wish anything you want, but children NEED corporal punishment when they need it, and nothing else will be able to replace it.



You don't get it. I don't expect you will. In the future, this type of thinking will no longer exist.

thanksfully.

no offense, but it is outdated thinking.
corporal punishment is not needed. It's been shown again and again our propensity to hit our children when they need discipline merely gets caried forward and the level of acceptable gets off further and further.

That's all I gotta say.

[golden arhat]

i'm sorry but if my daughter was such a disgrace as to take me to court for grounding her i'd put her up for adoption. end of story. any judge that agreed with her is simply an idiot

either that or has some really bad authority issues

[Old Noob]

Agreed.

You have to rais your children based on "Thier" nature, not the nature we wish they had.

In my case, my daughter allways needed a firm hand. I wish "time out's" would have worked, God knows it would have been one hell of a lot easier on me. But they didn't, neither did writing assignmeents, grooundings, taking toys are possesions away, keeping her from gymnastics. NONE of that did anything but make her behavior worse.

I had to suck it up and giver her the only thing that worked, so I spanked her.

Those of you who don't have kids, you won't understand this, but it WAS harder on me, than on her...by along shot.

She always had a way out of it, by just doing her homework, or responding to lessor punishments (I always started with the lessor ones in the hopes I would not have to put myself through the spanking trauma), and she allways refused to behave untill she was spanked.

You can wish anything you want, but children NEED corporal punishment when they need it, and nothing else will be able to replace it.

In addition to my experiences, in my 40 years on this earth have seen other kids raised by other adults. Without fail, the adults who refused to spank thier kids when they needed it had problem children who later turned to drugs, truancy, failing grades reckless and rebellious behavior, severely bad attitudes and little to no respect for authority. They are no different than abused kids who get beat for no reason or just because parents are just angry.

You got numbers that aren't anecdotes to back up the claim that non-spanked kids turn into run-amok teens with drug problems?

[sanjuro_ronin]

corporal punishment was also removed from teh school system before I even finished school. I'm 44 now, so that was a long time ago.

I guess we just don't believe in beating kids up here and we don't believe in becoming so frustrated that there is no other way to control the behaviour of someone who weighs 30 lbs. :rolleyes:

Advocation of beating a kid in whatever fashion is advocating child abuse. If you aren't smart enough to come up with behaviour modifications other than physical harm, then the critical error in thinking is your own. In my opinion and that of the Supreme Court of Canada as well.

Anyone mention BEATING A KID ???
No ???

[sanjuro_ronin]

Nope, physical discipline exercised upon a child is a use of force. Spanking is unnecessary and the thinking around it needs to change.

A government is a vehicle of the will of the people.
If the will of the people is to stop depending on corporal punishment as a form of valid discipline , then so be it.

If we are incapable of moving beyond the use of inflicted force to modify behaviour then we may as well just end it now. We have to evolve as a society and move forward.

It's not the government criminalizing abusive parents, it is the will of the people exercising itself through becoming rule of law.

I can't count how many times I threw out punks from night clubs and strip clubs that told me I couldn't touch them, "not even my parents can touch me".
I guess I was their "first" lesson in "corporal punishment".
:D

[Merryprankster]

Uhhhhhh....

Explain to me again how Canadian law, exercised within the context of their legal system, has anything to do with Obama?

Just not the same. Besides, seriously, scaring us with Canada is the best you can do? At least when the fear-mongering was really good, we had the Soviet Union...

Welfare will turn us into Communists!!!

BJ II, you're a pretty smart guy, but their executive system, legislative system and their judicial system are different, their general political landscape and range of opinion is different, and this analogy leaks like an incontinent who finished a six pack.

[Black Jack II]

Explain to me again how Canadian law, exercised within the context of their legal system, has anything to do with Obama?

There is nothing direct, nothing but the feeling that you will see more and more of these type of laws trying to be passed and passed with more accuracy by the far left crowd once and if Obama gets in and puts down his own army of judges.

It's all the about the judges.

It is a weak connection and requires some creativity but as the most far left prez canidate to ever run you wonder what is in store for us if he claims the seat.

BTW-It was not a six pack but a twenty four case.;)


Advocation of beating a kid in whatever fashion is advocating child abuse.

No one mentioned beating a kid James. Work on your comprehension of the issue.

Do you even have kids?

[David Jamieson]

Anyone mention BEATING A KID ???
No ???

When does a spanking become a beating?

When the hip gives? When the kidney gets hit? When the gluteous swells?

I'm not talking about a tap along, and neither is the court. They are talking about corporal punishment be it in the form of spankings (which is not how it's worded but rather how it is presented so people can wrap their heads around it).

I think we do need to take a look at our behaviours as a society and draw those lines in the social contract of what is acceptable and what is not acceptable and frankly, I am not ok with raising your hand towards a child in any way shape or means.

tossing teens out of establishments that are for 19+ is a different story and we are getting into splitting hairs here.

[David Jamieson]

There is nothing direct, nothing but the feeling that you will see more and more of these type of laws trying to be passed and passed with more accuracy by the far left crowd once and if Obama gets in and puts down his own army of judges.

It's all the about the judges.

It is a weak connection and requires some creativity but as the most far left prez canidate to ever run you wonder what is in store for us if he claims the seat.

BTW-It was not a six pack but a twenty four case.;)



No one mentioned beating a kid James. Work on your comprehension of the issue.

Do you even have kids?

Yes, I do, what's it to you? And he's grown up and he's never felt my hand on him to bring harm. I've used the stern voice, the posturing and when he was old enough, the time of reason. But if a person needs to strike a small child to discipline them it is because they do not know a method that is a working alternative or they may not have the disposition or patience required to parent properly?

When we are talking about corporal punishment, we are talking about inflicting violenec upon children as a valid form of discipline. In my opinion it is not. I know literally droves of people who do not spank or otherwise physically discipline their children. Their kids are fine and a lot less unruly than a lot of the kids I grew up with who did get corporal punishment, in fact, the kids who got the worse treatment were often the ones who ended up in trouble with the law or in trouble at school constantly etc etc.

man, it seems so obvious to me that it is simply wrong and a broken behaviour. Kinda sad that people still advocate using force on those who cannot actually sustain that force.

some of you guys can barely understand how to issue force at it is. You think you can properly measure how hard to hit a child? :rolleyes:

by all means, make fun of me for seeing it differently, I can only wonder what runs through your minds at times and reaffirm my distrust of humanity in a greater sense.

[Black Jack II]

by all means, make fun of me for seeing it differently, I can only wonder what runs through your minds at times and reaffirm my distrust of humanity in a greater sense.

No one is making fun of you, take it down a peg. You don't have the belief in the use of corporal punishment, which is more than fair. But to act that it should be off the table for others by use of forced government mandate is what this post is about.

But again, a small cuff or spanking, what for most is loving discipline, is a far cry from child abuse. Get off the elitist based criticism for once in awhile.

Hell, I don't even spank, but the method is not off the table and I certain do not want it off the table for others, when it is none of my business.

It often strikes me as odd, that some of the same people, who advocate killing millions on millions, of unborn children through the medical procedure of abortion get all bent out of shape from a time honored and proven method of correction.

Odd.

[sanjuro_ronin]

When does a spanking become a beating?

When the hip gives? When the kidney gets hit? When the gluteous swells?

I'm not talking about a tap along, and neither is the court. They are talking about corporal punishment be it in the form of spankings (which is not how it's worded but rather how it is presented so people can wrap their heads around it).

I think we do need to take a look at our behaviours as a society and draw those lines in the social contract of what is acceptable and what is not acceptable and frankly, I am not ok with raising your hand towards a child in any way shape or means.

tossing teens out of establishments that are for 19+ is a different story and we are getting into splitting hairs here.

The issue is that 99% of the times, that is what spanking is, a tap along, a smack on the butt to get their attention.
That's why you don't see any cases in court.
People that beat their kids couldn't care less about the law and the law was already there for that kind of abuse.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yes, I do, what's it to you? And he's grown up and he's never felt my hand on him to bring harm. I've used the stern voice, the posturing and when he was old enough, the time of reason. But if a person needs to strike a small child to discipline them it is because they do not know a method that is a working alternative or they may not have the disposition or patience required to parent properly?

So, instead of corporal punishment you used emotional and psychological punishment on a child, nice.

See how it works?

For every that sees a slap on the butt as a "beating" there is someone that sees posturing as intimidation and stern voice as vocal assault and degradation.

[Merryprankster]

reaffirm my distrust of humanity in a greater sense

your loss. but at least now a lot of what you say, politically, makes sense to me.

[MasterKiller]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXk4P12p1tU

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXk4P12p1tU

You know, when I see videos like that and the fact that YOU put up the link, all I can say is that you are a *snarl* LIBERAL LINK POSTER *snarl* !!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Of course, this is NOT a typical case:


Inaction in boy's killing called justified
Demian Bulwa, Chronicle Staff Writer
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/18/BA2G11ARO9.DTL
Wednesday, June 18, 2008

(06-17) 19:07 PDT TURLOCK (STANISLAUS COUNTY) -- The town of Turlock and much of the rest of the nation was shocked when a 27-year-old man beat and stomped his 2-year-old son to death on a rural road. But what was nearly as stunning for many people was that none of the motorists and their passengers who stopped and saw the attack tried to tackle the man.

Police officers and psychologists familiar with violent emergencies, however, said they weren't surprised at all.

A volunteer firefighter and at least five others saw Sergio Casian Aguiar assaulting his son Saturday night on the road west of Turlock (Stanislaus County), but it wasn't until a police officer arrived in a helicopter that the attack finally ended. Aguiar refused to halt the attack and raised his middle finger at the officer, who shot him to death, authorities said.

Bystanders are justifiably scared and confused in such situations, the experts said Wednesday, and they lack the experience needed to respond with force. They can also be mesmerized by shock.

John Conaty, a veteran homicide detective and former patrol officer in Pittsburg, said that in interviews of witnesses to violence, "the common thing you hear is, 'I was frozen in fear. I just couldn't take action.' "

Conaty questioned whether the witnesses had even been capable of stopping Aguiar. "If they were physically able, you have to take a look at whether they were psychologically prepared to intervene," he said.

"I would not condemn these people," said John Darley, a professor of psychology and public affairs at Princeton University who has studied how bystanders react in emergency situations. "Ordinary people aren't going to tackle a psychotic.

"What we have here," Darley said, "is a group of family and friends who are not pre-organized to deal with this stuff. They don't know who should do what. ... If you had five volunteer firefighters pull up, you would expect them to have planned responses and a division of labor. But that's not what we had here."

Darley said he was also not surprised that people who weren't at the scene of the killing believe they would have been heroic Good Samaritans.

"It's an aspiration," he said. "They hope they would have done differently."

First on the scene
One of the witnesses, Deborah McKain of nearby Crows Landing, said she was the first to pull up to the beating scene with her boyfriend, a volunteer fire chief who is 52, as well as her 20-year-old son, her son's wife and her son's male friend. They called 911 at 10:13 p.m., police said.

Over the next seven minutes, McKain said, Aguiar kicked his son at least 100 times as he calmly stated that he needed to "get the demons out" of the boy.

"It was like I was on some type of drug or something," McKain recalled Tuesday. "I couldn't believe what was going on. It was like a dream."

She said her boyfriend, Dan Robinson, forcefully argued with Aguiar in an effort to get him to stop, but that he would not. At one point, another woman, 23-year-old Lisa Mota, pulled up in her car, but stayed inside.

"We were looking for rocks or boards on the ground, just to knock him out, get him under control. But we couldn't find anything," McKain said. "We didn't know if he had a knife or any kind of weapon on him."

McKain said she wondered whether Aguiar was on hallucinogenic drugs and whether fighting with him might lead him to hurt several of the witnesses.

She also said it appeared the child was "gone."

People who are second-guessing her and her family can "never know until they're in that situation," McKain said. "We would have loved to knock his head off, too, but we had nothing to knock it off with."

Deputy Royjindar Singh, a spokesman for the Stanislaus County Sheriff's Department, acknowledged there was some "Monday morning quarterbacking" taking place, but said his agency had no problem with the actions of the witnesses.

'Everybody acts differently'
"Your headlights are shining on a person taking the life out of an infant, and not just shaking and slapping but punching and kicking," Singh said. "Everybody reacts differently."

Sheriff's investigators are still trying to determine why Aguiar, a grocery store worker who recently split up from his schoolteacher wife, killed his son so savagely. The boy's name still has not been released.

Investigators have learned that Aguiar left his home near downtown Turlock before the beating, but they don't know why he drove about 10 miles into an area of cornfields and dairy ranches, Singh said. He said investigators had found no evidence of drug use at Aguiar's house or in his pickup, though results of toxicology tests have not yet come back.

Aguiar's wife, who was in Southern California at the time of the slaying, and others have told investigators that Aguiar "wasn't acting differently than how he normally acts," Singh said. Aguiar's family members, who live in Mexico, were traveling to Stanislaus County to talk to deputies, Singh said.

"As of right now," Singh said, "nobody's saying he was having problems at all. It's baffling. It sounds like there was nothing anyone could have done."

E-mail Demian Bulwa at dbulwa@sfchronicle.com.