First JJ class back

[SimonM]

Ok so I did my first JJ class in about 3 years today. Rolled with a brown belt who said "let's just start on the ground".

Needless to say I got my ass handed to me. :D

My ribs hurt, my shoulder has rug burn and I think one of my elbows will extend by an extra degree or two.

It was great!

[Ray Pina]

Awesome. Welcome back.

I know I'm addicted for life.

Good for the mind. Good for the body. Good for the soul. Great style.

[mkriii]

Awesome. Welcome back.
I know I'm addicted for life.
Good for the mind. Good for the body. Good for the soul. Great style.

Not so good if your in a crowded bar and/or fighting more than one person. Serious question: How do you fend off more than one attacker. Especially if your in a crowded bar with bar tables, bar stools, and a lot of people crammed packed into this bar or night club? I just don't see how it could be effective. If I'm wrong please tell me how I'm wrong.

Now on the other hand 1 on 1 in an open area I would agree with you.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Not so good if your in a crowded bar and/or fighting more than one person. Serious question: How do you fend off more than one attacker. Especially if your in a crowded bar with bar tables, bar stools, and a lot of people crammed packed into this bar or night club? I just don't see how it could be effective. If I'm wrong please tell me how I'm wrong.

Now on the other hand 1 on 1 in an open area I would agree with you.

You choke out one of them and then use his limp body as a club.
That is a common blue belt move that everyone is aware of, rookie.

[mkriii]

whatever. You have to get the choke on him first and that might take a few minutes. Besides it takes a couple of seconds to choke him out once its on. What if your fighting three people in a bar. That isn't so uncommon.

[MasterKiller]

Stay out of bars.

[sanjuro_ronin]

whatever. You have to get the choke on him first and that might take a few minutes. Besides it takes a couple of seconds to choke him out once its on. What if your fighting three people in a bar. That isn't so uncommon.

Ah rookies...
It takes 3 seconds to choke someone out, in the time, I can KO someone else with my shadowless kick ( invented by Rorion) and take out someone else with my Schlong in the ancient move know as the "dragon whips his tail" ( Invented by Rickson).

[mkriii]

Stay out of bars.

LOL........I'm addicted to the bar scene. I mean where else can you go pick up ditzie blondes that are ready for the pickin's. Their all wearing short mini skirts or tight ass jeans and skimpy tops with their boobs bulging out.

[Ray Pina]

I do BJJ because I want to compete against the highest standard of fighter today.... and the simple fact is you need to be very comfortable dealing with all types of strikes, clinches, throws, shoots and ground fighting.

I've learned a big lesson down here in Puerto Rico... there is no fighting. Even if I'm right, even if I kick a guys ass, his friends will shoot me later. I don't fight in polite (or even rude) society.



Here's a question: As a healthy martial artists how could you not train BJJ today? It's available, all the craze, fun, and it adds a whole new set of tools to your game. The more I train, the more I look to shoot, take a guy down and just man handle him. It's great.

[Ray Pina]

Something else to consider.... the force of being dropped on your head, on cement. You can follow a man down to continue with strikes but lots of throws leave you free to direct the head downward and go on with your business.

And the absolute best thing about BJJ: NO Bull$hit.

You train and you roll. You fight not to get choked out or tapped daily. Guys are giving it their all every single class. It's good for your spirit, to learn about your will... it's also a good way to perfect your technique.

Ultimately, you gather the tools that you need to feel confident going into battle. If you're training hard there's little time or energy for debate. Debate is for talking.

If you truly think BJJ is a useless style and feel strongly that you need to make that point, go to your nearest Gracie school and challenge a purple belt if you are your typical martial artists of 5 years. If you are a champion kickboxer, K1 material, then go challenge a Gracie Black belt. Simple enough. Take a friend and video camera. Otherwise it's hard to distinguish one internet poster from another.

[SimonM]

Here's a question: As a healthy martial artists how could you not train BJJ today?

Because your teacher teaches JJJ instead.

As for Mkrii's question: first off Ray is right, picking fights just because you know how to fight is dumb because of the complications not just of retaliation (in the form of violence or lawsuit) but also because of the fact that there are rather strict assault laws in many jurisdictions. When you are standing over the beaten and bruised body of your vanquished foe saying "but he attacked first" might not cut it with the cops.

That being said, also mirroring a point Ray made, nobody ever said you should just do the ground fight training. In fact I ripped on Rorion Gracie in another thread recently for comments he made in IKF to the effect that Jiu Justu was a superior martial art to others because of the fact that most people nowadays advocate cross-training.

Let's face it: gongfu can have a great standing game. Many forms even are very good for throws. But if a fight does go to the ground and the person ON the ground doesn't just give up and stop fighting than knowing how to apply chokes, bars, crushes and pins really helps.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Something else to consider.... the force of being dropped on your head, on cement. You can follow a man down to continue with strikes but lots of throws leave you free to direct the head downward and go on with your business.



Yes, judo is awesome.
:D

[SimonM]

I'd like to propose this consensus than: Having some sort of ground game (be it BJJ, JJJ or Judo) is a valuable part of a well-rounded martial arts training regimen.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'd like to propose this consensus than: Having some sort of ground game (be it BJJ, JJJ or Judo) is a valuable part of a well-rounded martial arts training regimen.

That's crazy talk man !!!

[monji112000]

Not so good if your in a crowded bar and/or fighting more than one person. Serious question: How do you fend off more than one attacker. Especially if your in a crowded bar with bar tables, bar stools, and a lot of people crammed packed into this bar or night club? I just don't see how it could be effective. If I'm wrong please tell me how I'm wrong.

Now on the other hand 1 on 1 in an open area I would agree with you.
good point , but lets see anyone deal with that situation.. the average martial artist most of all the average person would get their head cracked open in a bar fight. I don't care what style you do. Its a sport, it promotes attributes that are common to probably all martial arts..

But just to show you how wrong you are, what happens when you fall? can you get back up fast enough? without getting hurt? what if he jumps on top of you? I'm not talking about doing a gogoplata just stop him from smashing your face into the ground.. and get the f*** back up. You show me any other martial art that isn't focused on ground fighting that can do that? I believe that those two qualities alone should prove how wrong you are. Nobody is saying that you shouldn't have good striking skills. Nobody is saying to jump guard or shoot for a double.

[Old Noob]

Because your teacher teaches JJJ instead.


PM Sent.:D

[mkriii]

Something else to consider.... the force of being dropped on your head, on cement. You can follow a man down to continue with strikes but lots of throws leave you free to direct the head downward and go on with your business.

And the absolute best thing about BJJ: NO Bull$hit.

You train and you roll. You fight not to get choked out or tapped daily. Guys are giving it their all every single class. It's good for your spirit, to learn about your will... it's also a good way to perfect your technique.

Ultimately, you gather the tools that you need to feel confident going into battle. If you're training hard there's little time or energy for debate. Debate is for talking.

If you truly think BJJ is a useless style and feel strongly that you need to make that point, go to your nearest Gracie school and challenge a purple belt if you are your typical martial artists of 5 years. If you are a champion kickboxer, K1 material, then go challenge a Gracie Black belt. Simple enough. Take a friend and video camera. Otherwise it's hard to distinguish one internet poster from another.



Because your teacher teaches JJJ instead.

As for Mkrii's question: first off Ray is right, picking fights just because you know how to fight is dumb because of the complications not just of retaliation (in the form of violence or lawsuit) but also because of the fact that there are rather strict assault laws in many jurisdictions. When you are standing over the beaten and bruised body of your vanquished foe saying "but he attacked first" might not cut it with the cops.

That being said, also mirroring a point Ray made, nobody ever said you should just do the ground fight training. In fact I ripped on Rorion Gracie in another thread recently for comments he made in IKF to the effect that Jiu Justu was a superior martial art to others because of the fact that most people nowadays advocate cross-training.

Let's face it: gongfu can have a great standing game. Many forms even are very good for throws. But if a fight does go to the ground and the person ON the ground doesn't just give up and stop fighting than knowing how to apply chokes, bars, crushes and pins really helps.

I'm not saying that BJJ isn't good. I trained in it for a year and a half and have been wrestling since high school (15 years ago). I just feel more safer with stand up fighting although my ground game isn't bad. I feel that I can hold my own. I wasn't trying to say grappling wasn't good. Just IMO it isn't the best for a bar fight scenerio. And I do not condone starting fights in bars.

[SimonM]

Sure you have. :)

[Ray Pina]

I can appreciate that. And honestly, there's nothing better than that feeling when you KNOW you can whoop that guy. And that it's just a matter of time and then WHAM! You crack him good a few times until its over. There's nothing like that feeling. That thing that builds inside to face that scenario and then a quick, safe release. But you're still amped and trying to calm to deal with polite society.

Just right now, I'm actually into Jiu-jitsu --sorry SimonN for the oversight... nice seeing your still alive -- because you can tool someone without the severe damage. I'm actually injured more now, you know how it is, but cracking some guy in the head right now -- other than for a fight based on some bigger life plan (coaching, pro fighting) -- just doesn't seem right.

At the same time I've hung my heavy back to get my kicks back. Working combos in close trying to use internal principles... not for magic, but for economy. Even lightly bumping the head between rounds to toughen it.

I'm getting ready to go back in soon.

[mkriii]

Sure you have. :)

Sure you have what?

[monji112000]

I'm not saying that BJJ isn't good. I trained in it for a year and a half and have been wrestling since high school (15 years ago). I just feel more safer with stand up fighting although my ground game isn't bad. I feel that I can hold my own. I wasn't trying to say grappling wasn't good. Just IMO it isn't the best for a bar fight scenerio. And I do not condone starting fights in bars.

again I would say that most people who train martial arts will have a hard time a bar fight. You can make the same arguments about any standup art. Multiple attackers, weapons ect.. will they do any better? depends on how they train not really what they train. Lets be honest here your average person throws two punches a sloppy hook and a sloppy straight.

Again how many striking arts train getting back up? or escaping from someone being ontop of you?
in a perfect world you wont fall or get hit.. but in my experience once you get hit hard you fall. so.. know what?

If we are talking about surviving a bar fight forget all martail arts. Just learn the
learn to defend the basic punches and drill them into the ground. Spar and learn the basics of ground fighting.
You can learn less much less than any expert in those arts and prob have a good chance of surviving a fight.
its really about training methods. JMO what do I know?

[mkriii]

OK like I said I only trained BJJ for 1 1/2 years so I don't know a lot about it like you probably do so I have a question......Does BJJ teach how to throw kicks and punches? Because when I studied BJJ we were only taught takedowns and submissions and most of the submissions were taught from an already down position.

As for a fight in a bar or anywhere for that matter a stand up fighter has options of using elbow strikes and kicks to the knee to take out an attacker quickly so that he/she can move on to the next attacker if there is more than 1.

With low kicks to the knee and short range strikes such as an elbow to the skull the amount of room to throw these techniques are more advantagous for the bar scene.