Herbal Exchanges

[OTD]

Herb ox

I am attempting to make some more of my old formulas which have She Xiang in them. Would Su He Xiang (Rose Maloes Resin) be a good substitute?, If so what ratio for substituting would you suggest.
Thanks in advance for any or all help.
OTD

[herb ox]

OTD -
I'm not so sure about su he xiang as a substitute - while it may share some of the properties of she xiang, it may also have other, less desirable effects as well.

For the record, every time I bring this question up (substitute for She Xiang), my teachers always say the same thing - use Ding Xiang (clove buds) and adjust the dosage accordingly - .5 qian to 1.5 qian should do the trick. Unfortunately, the eugenol in clove may prove irritating to some individuals, so a test batch may be in order here...

let me know how it turns out either way.

peace

herb ox

[OTD]

Herb ox
I have previously tried the Ding Xiang (Clove) substitution @ 1:1, I'll try again @1.5:1 and see what happens. My supply herbalist suggested I add .5 qian/liter of gypsum to off set the eugenol side effect. HE said it would enhance the cooling effect and moderate the solution's PH to reduce the irritation
It will take me about 30-45 days B/4 I can let you know how it works. I did not have any reactions to the old plaster @ 1:1 , however, it toook 3 treatments to get the same affect/effect of using 1 treatment of the She Xing Plaster
Thanks for the info
OTD

[herb ox]

Yeah, I think you need to up those ratios a bit. She Xiang is usually applied in the 0.1 - 0.3gm range. At a 1-1 ratio, this would never do with Ding Xiang. You have to use the effective dose of Ding Xiang - i.e. 1.5-4.5 grams to get any effect.

I like the Shi Gao (gypsum) idea - thanks for sharing that one!

best

herb ox

[OTD]

Herb ox
I have tried substituting Long Gu for Hu Gu @ 2:1 ratio. It does not seem to work as well. Any other suggestions? I was attempting to make some more Hu Gu Ren Shen Jiu for my lower back and knees. As usual any and all help will be greatly appreciated. BTW if u add the Gypsum (Shi Gao) I have found out that the Ag (farmers) version works just as well, however, crushing it up first will help it to dissolve better (since it has been baked). I also went with a 3:1 on the Ding Xiang
instead of the 1.5:1..
Thanks
OTD

[Dale Dugas]

You can use Horse Bone or Boar bone if you have access to it in your area. I have friends who hunt and get me boar bone every now and then. Pig bone can be used as well. Though you can sub Wu Jia Pi and Shen Jin Cao as well as Qian Nian Jian to replace Tiger Bone.

I use Boar bone as well pig bone with Qian Nian Jian to further its actions.

Again be careful with tonic formulas as tonic herbs can clog your energy up and then you are not healthy but sick.

Always use them sparingly. Kidney tonics have to be watched as you can damage your kidneys with overuse.

[Kaylun]

When using animal bones do you boil them up first to get rid of any fleash and meat that may still be on the bone or do they go in raw?

[Dale Dugas]

Bones are boiled and then dried and then baked in a little vinegar to break down the calcium matrix.

[OTD]

Herb Ox
FYI last batch @3:1 w/.5 qian/lter of gypsum is better. Going to try another
batch 4:1, subbing the clove for musk

Dale Dugas
Thanks for the tip on Boar's bone, and the boars'bone for Hu Gu Ren Shen Jiu tonic

Will update all in next 45-60 days

Again Thanks for the suggestions
OTD

[OTD]

Herb Ox et al
Is there a good substitution for Hu Zhang, aka bushy-knottweed ?
The last prescription I was having filled at the herbalist shop, he
informed me he can no longer get it into the states??. He did not
say it was banned or restricted, just that it wasn't allowed any more ??
Just wondering if any one has any info on why? I have not been able to
find anything on the net.
Thanks for any and all help
OTD

[PlumDragon]

Wha...? Ive got 3 lbs of Hu Zhang sitting right next to me. It is 100% available.

There are lots of various subs you could make, one Ive seen is Dan Shen, which is also bitter and cooling and has similar (definitely not exact though) properties for the use I imagine you want to use it for. Not realyl necessary though, Hu Zhang is definitely available.

[OTD]

PLum Dragon
Thanks for the info, I called my back-up guy in Atlanta, He tells me the same as you, however, he did say that customs was becomming a bit testy on all of his
herbal imports ??????. I did get some ordered. Again thanks for the Dan Shen
sub..
OTD

[PlumDragon]

Customs is always testy, IMO. One day its some patent, the next day its Gou Ji, and maybe recently customs wouldnt let a big shipment of Hu Zhang in for some silly reason. Fact is, all of this stuff is still coming in to the states throgh one route or another, even the really obscure stuff. Just like you found out, if one herbalist says they cant get it, call another and theyll have plenty of it...

[OTD]

HerbOx et all

The 4:1 clove substitution ,IMHO, is working great.
I might have to up the Gypsum (Shi Gao) just a little.
It seems to want to be just a little 'rashy' if I use it
more than 2x/day

Thanks everyone for all your help in the past
OTD

[TenTigers]

what is a good substitute for opium in a dit da jow formula? Also what is a good sub for bear paw, and bear bile?
while you're at it, what illegal/endangerd substances have suitable substitutions? such as tiger bone, certain snake,deer musk, etc?

[Xiao3 Meng4]

what is a good substitute for opium in a dit da jow formula? Also what is a good sub for bear paw, and bear bile?
while you're at it, what illegal/endangerd substances have suitable substitutions? such as tiger bone, certain snake,deer musk, etc?

Do you have a Materia Medica? I'd recommend looking through it for herbs that a) have same or similar uses, and b) are compatible with the rest of the herbs in your formula. Sometimes, 2 or 3 herbs may be needed as a substitute (make sure they're all compatible, and watch your dosages!)

No Materia Medica? Here's a nice one:

http://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Herbal-Medicine-Materia-Medica/dp/0939616424

Have fun!

[OTD]

Herb_Ox et All

Any one know of the Chinese Name for the herb below:
Comfrey (Symphytum Officinale)?
Better still a Chinese Herb that will Repoduce most of Comfrey's
healing atributes ???

Thanks for any and ALL help.

OTD

[OTD]

Herb Ox et All

Has any one ever seen a jow receipe using the above herb I I believe it to be Kava Kava) as a numbing agent for the skin/muscles/tendons ? Any and all help
would me welcomed
thanks in advance
as always I remain a student
OTD

[herb ox]

OTD - the characters you posted 英文藥名 mean "English name of medicine" , so, I can't offer any advice other than I've never seen Kava in a Jow before. Kava's from Fiji, not China, so I don't think much crossover has taken place on that one :o

Anyone else?

cheers

herb ox

[Xiao3 Meng4]

I've never seen it in a jow, either.

I've been thinking, though, that jows are a pretty universal liniment. I mean, every traditional culture must have its own jow. I say must, because I can't think of any culture that hasn't addressed the problem of trauma through herbs.

I think traditional crossovers should automatically be considered "modern" jows. Say I take an herb indigenous to North America and add it to a Chinese jow. There is no reason why I shouldn't be able to do this, but I would have to accept the fact that there is no way my jow could be considered traditional.

It'd be interesting to see a list of international dit da jow recipes, for both comparative and combinative research.

[OTD]

Herb Ox et All
I believe it is Ka Wa Hu Jiao. I'm not too sure on the pinyn of the last Character.
I have had some soaking in a little alcohol (real good 'moonshine') for approx 6 mo. I happened to spill some on my hand when transferring the liquor to a smaller jar and talk about being cool and numb. Thats when I started thinking would this herb be of any use in skin/muscle/tendon/bone trauma.
Thanks for all the info
OTD