Dragon-Lung Ying Chin-Na/Grappling?

[LaterthanNever]

I don't know much about the style. I've seen 2 of the vids that Grandmaster Yip Wing Hong produced and was very impressed. He's a fighter for sure!

The diagonal footwork as well as the Z shaped fists are impressive.

Does Lung Ying have any Chin-Na as part of the sets/forms?

Anyone? Thanks

[cranky old man]

yes it does

[Mulong]

Yes, hard to believe, but all style of Chinese martial arts possess qinna (seize, control) and shuai (throwing-down) skills; even though the shifu may or may not know it.:D

[David Jamieson]

Yes, hard to believe, but all style of Chinese martial arts possess qinna (seize, control) and shuai (throwing-down) skills; even though the shifu may or may not know it.:D

if your sifu doesn't know it, your style doesn't have it.

[Mulong]

David,

Do you mean the shifu's (own) style? Pardon me, for stating, but all style have a certain level of qinna; however, not all shifu are aware of the qinna of their particular system. (Sadly, I have experience this in the past.) :(

[mantis108]

Lung Ying is primarily a striking style. The focus is not on grappling. There are take down and such moves but it's not done in the sense of Chin Na. If it is taught, it's more along the line of "self defense". In other words, it is street oriented basic grab, counter and/or escape. Nothing elaborate as far as I am aware.

Mantis108

[LaterthanNever]

All kf styles? Hmmm..:confused:

Doesn't the Chin-Na/ Shuai concepts go philosophically against the underpinnings of the way some styles look at fighting?(ie: Wing Chun).

I believe that WC has only one grab(larp sao? I forget). I've read that Wing Chun people don't believe in grabbing since they feel it is inefficient(ie: that the grabbing hand sets up for being hit by the opponents free hand).

My response isn't to open a can of worms or start an argument, but there are some styles I've never seen any Chin-na in..

[monji112000]

All kf styles? Hmmm..:confused:

Doesn't the Chin-Na/ Shuai concepts go philosophically against the underpinnings of the way some styles look at fighting?(ie: Wing Chun).

I believe that WC has only one grab(larp sao? I forget). I've read that Wing Chun people don't believe in grabbing since they feel it is inefficient(ie: that the grabbing hand sets up for being hit by the opponents free hand).

My response isn't to open a can of worms or start an argument, but there are some styles I've never seen any Chin-na in..
outside of WC most Kung Fu styles have a Chin-na style and some basic trips/throws.

WC isn't like most styles of Kung fu, they don't have lion dance, dragon, many weapons, allot of forms ect... its really not what people consider as a "Kung fu System".

[Mulong]

Yongchun does have qinna...

[Mulong]

I’m starting to see some individuals see CMA within a first-dimensional, i.e., length/strike, and a second-dimensional levels, i.e., width/block; however, wherever there is a circular motion you now have enter a third-dimensional level, i.e., space/controlling-throwing, possibility.

Even though you may have not been taught that a post strike/upper-cut (jongchui) can be used in executing a throw or for a break, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. For example, liquan (standing fist) is the primary strike used in yongchunquan can also be used to seize an opponent’s throat, i.e., qinna. :o

[bakxierboxer]

[FONT="Georgia"]I’m starting to see some individuals see CMA within a first-dimensional, i.e., length/strike, and a second-dimensional levels, i.e., width/block; however, wherever there is a circular motion you now have enter a third-dimensional level, i.e., space/controlling-throwing, possibility......

Let's not be forgetting that 4th dimension........ :rolleyes:

[Mulong]

Are you referring to time? :D

[bakxierboxer]

Are you referring to time? :D


Good guess........ :)











Yes. :D

[Mulong]

Have you now experiment with fifth, i.e., distance? :)

[bakxierboxer]

Have you now experiment with fifth, i.e., distance? :)

Nah!
I figure that would be subsumed under your earlier dimensions.

In any case, my own standard for most things in TCMA is:

"You gotta be close enough to hit the guy!"

(alternate meaning: there's not a lot of "distance" to mess about with)

[Mulong]

Distance, i.e., fifth-dimension, can be perceived how a technique changes from distance; for example, tantui (flicking leg), at close-range it is a knee strike; at middle range a sweep and at long range a kick.

[bakxierboxer]

Distance, i.e., fifth-dimension, can be perceived how a technique changes from distance; for example, tantui (flicking leg), at close-range it is a knee strike; at middle range a sweep and at long range a kick.

What's TanTui got to do with anything southern?
(particularly short-hand styles)(Lung Ying is usually regarded as such)
In any case, I perform @ 90% of my kicks at arm's length or closer.

[sanjuro_ronin]

What's TanTui got to do with anything southern?
(particularly short-hand styles)(Lung Ying is usually regarded as such)
In any case, I perform @ 90% of my kicks at arm's length or closer.

The words of my first TKD teacher:
You gotta be close enough to punch him to use your kicks, if you can't kick from punching distance, of what use are they?

[Mulong]

Tantui is a technique, i.e., snapping leg, or commonly refer to as a snap kick. I wasn’t referring to the lu (way/form).

Indeed, longxing is duanshoushi (short hand style); hence, the use of triangle footwork, which is ideal for kicking, sweeps and leg qinna.

[bakxierboxer]

Tantui is a technique, i.e., snapping leg, or commonly refer to as a snap kick. I wasn’t referring to the lu (way/form).

Indeed, longxing is duanshoushi (short hand style); hence, the use of triangle footwork, which is ideal for kicking, sweeps and leg qinna.

Sounds quite a bit like the lower part of what I do..... :D

[bakxierboxer]

The words of my first TKD teacher:
You gotta be close enough to punch him to use your kicks, if you can't kick from punching distance, of what use are they?

He sounds "rather different" from most TKD teachers these days......

Early Moo Duk Kwan types (in the New England area) hardly knew what a punch WAS.....

[Mulong]

Longxingquan uses nailing leg (dingtui) or tread leg (caitui). (Pardon me, for using Mandarin/ Pinyin.)

[sanjuro_ronin]

He sounds "rather different" from most TKD teachers these days......

Early Moo Duk Kwan types (in the New England area) hardly knew what a punch WAS.....

1st and 2nd Generation ITF guys loved to punch and ridgehand and enjoyed kicking you in the face while "in your face".

[bakxierboxer]

Longxingquan uses nailing leg (dingtui) or tread leg (caitui). (Pardon me, for using Mandarin/ Pinyin.)

Definitions would help.

[bakxierboxer]

1st and 2nd Generation ITF guys loved to punch and ridgehand and enjoyed kicking you in the face while "in your face".

What's 1st and 2nd generation to you/them?
Put a year on them?

[sanjuro_ronin]

What's 1st and 2nd generation to you/them?
Put a year on them?

My teacher was 2nd generation, 1970's.
His was 1st, 60's, maybe 50's.

[bakxierboxer]

My teacher was 2nd generation, 1970's.
His was 1st, 60's, maybe 50's.

The only ones I recall who liked "close quarters" were former ROK Tigers.
The early Moo Duk Kwan I met was a fellow named Bob Cheezic who had his school in Waterbury, Ct. Served in Korea during the 50s... still looked like a kid.
I don't remember just how it came about, but we were invited to come up to his school for a "shiai" and his eyes got REALLY big when he saw KENPO hands...... :rolleyes:

[Mulong]

Nailing leg/kick is a low kick; almost a sweep to the ankles. Threading leg/kick is a low kick; designed for a knee kick.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Tongue and grove kick, well that is pretty self-explanatory.
:D

[bakxierboxer]

Nailing leg/kick is a low kick; almost a sweep to the ankles. Threading leg/kick is a low kick; designed for a knee kick.

Ah!
Thanks.
Those meanings weren't apparent (to me) from their names.
They seem to be fairly standard stuff.

[bakxierboxer]

Tongue and grove kick, well that is pretty self-explanatory.
:D

How DO ya get them to stick out their tongue on cue?
(grooves.... you have to fight a lotta dem tacos?)

[Mulong]

bakxierboxer,

I'm using literal translation from the actual ideograms/characters; hence, not figurative language.

[bakxierboxer]

bakxierboxer,

I'm using literal translation from the actual ideograms/characters; hence, not figurative language.

Figured it was something like that.
Thanks for the translation service to a certified non-linguist. :)

[Mulong]

I know it can be annoying to some; however, after years of bad translation, i.e., figurative language, I went to the source, i.e., ideograms, and started to realize that something was lost; for example, xubu (empty footstep) is refer to as cat stance.

[bakxierboxer]

I know it can be annoying to some; however, after years of bad translation, i.e., figurative language, I went to the source, i.e., ideograms, and started to realize that something was lost; for example, xubu (empty footstep) is refer to as cat stance.

If you like doing it, I'm certainly not going to complain about your making the results of your efforts available. I can always learn something new.
Trust me when I say that there are lots more annoying things on the 'Net. :rolleyes:

In fact, perhaps what you learn can be added to the KFO glossary.

<http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/info/glossary.php#S>

Check-with/PM Gene?

[doug maverick]

Lung Ying is primarily a striking style. The focus is not on grappling. There are take down and such moves but it's not done in the sense of Chin Na. If it is taught, it's more along the line of "self defense". In other words, it is street oriented basic grab, counter and/or escape. Nothing elaborate as far as I am aware.

Mantis108

lung ying kuen was the first art i studied. i won't place the teachers name here because he later turned out to be a drug dealing pimp but thats another story entirely. anyway when i studied it i remember chin na being heavily trained. we had many training techniques specifically geared toward training your grip and all defferent types of locks. in fact my sifu in the art was probably the only person i've even seen who can catch a speeding punch by the wrist. so i don't know maybe your talking about another lung ying kuen. but the art i studied had alot of chin na.

[HardWork8]

Yes, hard to believe, but all style of Chinese martial arts possess qinna (seize, control) and shuai (throwing-down) skills; even though the shifu may or may not know it.:D

You should go to the Wing Chun forum and say that to some of the less enlightened posters there.:D

Maybe then they will believe me.:rolleyes:

[HardWork8]

All kf styles? Hmmm..:confused:

Doesn't the Chin-Na/ Shuai concepts go philosophically against the underpinnings of the way some styles look at fighting?(ie: Wing Chun).

I believe that WC has only one grab(larp sao? I forget). I've read that Wing Chun people don't believe in grabbing since they feel it is inefficient(ie: that the grabbing hand sets up for being hit by the opponents free hand).

My response isn't to open a can of worms or start an argument, but there are some styles I've never seen any Chin-na in..

I practice the Mainland Chinese lineage of Siu Lam Wing Chun. There is a lot of Chi-na and there is even ground fighting training in the later stages of Chum Kiu. This is part of the traditional syllabus and is not something that was taken from Judo,Bjj, etc.

I am not at this level yet but I have practiced plenty of stand up grappling during my training.

We also practice Kum-la/Chi-na chi sao, which is basically a grappling type chi sao with locks and takedowns. This type of chi-sai is then combined with the striking chi sao and become an anything goes Chi sao. In time this evolves into contact San sa (free hands).

[Mulong]

HardWork8,

Honestly, the top practitioners of WC know qinna.

[sanjuro_ronin]

HardWork8,

Honestly, the top practitioners of WC know qinna.

Do you know any top practitioner of ANY MA that doesn't know some "chin-na" ?

[Mulong]

sanjuro_ronin,

Are you referring to my statement?

[Mulong]

It sadden me after all these years that someone individuals don’t realize the arsenal that lies within their particular style. This reminds me of a yongchunquan anecdote:

One day the senior uncle comes to the school and starts to teach his nephews wooden dummy techniques; he first start off with right arm techniques and then moves to left arm ones, which blow away his nephews; they commented that their teacher never taught them this; hence, believing that it didn’t exist at which point he stated that their teacher wasn’t good at left arm techniques and that’s why he never taught it. (Pardon me, if I messed up the story; trying to recall it.)

Hence, all styles possess so many skills, but it is up to the practitioner to find it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

sanjuro_ronin,

Are you referring to my statement?

yes, hence the direct quote, LOL :D

[Mulong]

Okay, I wouldn’t name Shifus, who don’t teach qinna out of respect for them and their students, but trust me I know a few.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Okay, I wouldn’t name Shifus, who don’t teach qinna out of respect for them and their students, but trust me I know a few.

Really?
Truly that surprises me.

[Mulong]

Worst; one shifu; use to state that his particular style didn’t possess qinna and years later he was teaching the secret qinna of his particular style; I gather, someone gave him the decoded ring.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Worst; one shifu; use to state that his particular style didn’t possess qinna and years later he was teaching the secret qinna of his particular style; I gather, someone gave him the decoded ring.

Well, I must say THAT is NOT shocking as I have seen that also.
But I don't know of any high level MA form ANY systems that doesn't know some chin-na, and I am pretty sure that all of them teach it in one way or another.

[Mulong]

True... But there are still some, who don't teach or don't know.

[mkriii]

I don't know much about the style. I've seen 2 of the vids that Grandmaster Yip Wing Hong produced and was very impressed. He's a fighter for sure!

The diagonal footwork as well as the Z shaped fists are impressive.

Does Lung Ying have any Chin-Na as part of the sets/forms?

Anyone? Thanks


Yes, Loong Ying does contain Chin Na techniques. The hand posture (dragon claw) makes it ideal for grabbing and siezing. Some techniques in the forms are more obvious than others but yes dragon style does use chin na.

[lkfmdc]

I knew a very well known and respected sifu who told me (in Cantonese) that everything he teaches is watered down but since no one but a select few would ever know what was the difference? :rolleyes:

The same guy had a top student teaching his classes one day, the movement in the set they were working on literally screamed "arm lock into leg sweep" I mean, it just SCREAMED IT! Well, someone had come into the school for info and was standing there. The top student was talking to the new guy who had just walked in and told him "no, our system DOES NOT HAVE any grappling" :eek:

At times CMA is truly pathetic

Oh, on topic, I studied with Sifu Yip a short period (around 4 months). While it appears there is Chin Na in the system, I never saw it taught

[mantis108]

It sadden me after all these years that someone individuals don’t realize the arsenal that lies within their particular style. This reminds me of a yongchunquan anecdote:

One day the senior uncle comes to the school and starts to teach his nephews wooden dummy techniques; he first start off with right arm techniques and then moves to left arm ones, which blow away his nephews; they commented that their teacher never taught them this; hence, believing that it didn’t exist at which point he stated that their teacher wasn’t good at left arm techniques and that’s why he never taught it. (Pardon me, if I messed up the story; trying to recall it.)

Hence, all styles possess so many skills, but it is up to the practitioner to find it.

What you are pointing out is not a system or style problem per se. It is a very common problem on the individual level. All human movements whether it is singular (forms), multiple (combinations), or range (patterned routines) are subjected to interpretations. You open a Blackbelt mags 20 years ago, every single "application is about striking or kicking. Now it's all of a sudden everybody "rediscovered the root" of hidden or secret grappling stuff including ground fighting. The truth is it is a matter of understanding of purpose, focus and direction. It is all about what the individual want out of it. However, in the case of TCMA, the good of the clan out weights the need of the family and the good of the family out weights of the need of the individual nearly 90% of the time. Sometimes even if you have great discovery and great success in your own experience, you might have to sing the chorus line. Yes, status quo sucks but that's a fact of life in TCMA. So you might have to leave a particular school to fulfill your "calling". Anyway, that's how all those myths and legends about wandering monks, dreams, observing nature "inspirations" came to being. Back in the days, you would not be able to leave and learn from someone else without consequences. But now it's a different story. So...

Just some thoughts.

Regards

Mantis108

[sanjuro_ronin]

What you are pointing out is not a system or style problem per se. It is a very common problem on the individual level. All human movements whether it is singular (forms), multiple (combinations), or range (patterned routines) are subjected to interpretations. You open a Blackbelt mags 20 years ago, every single "application is about striking or kicking. Now it's all of a sudden everybody "rediscovered the root" of hidden or secret grappling stuff including ground fighting. The truth is it is a matter of understanding of purpose, focus and direction. It is all about what the individual want out of it. However, in the case of TCMA, the good of the clan out weights the need of the family and the good of the family out weights of the need of the individual nearly 90% of the time. Sometimes even if you have great discovery and great success in your own experience, you might have to sing the chorus line. Yes, status quo sucks but that's a fact of life in TCMA. So you might have to leave a particular school to fulfill your "calling". Anyway, that's how all those myths and legends about wandering monks, dreams, observing nature "inspirations" came to being. Back in the days, you would not be able to leave and learn from someone else without consequences. But now it's a different story. So...


Just some thoughts.

Regards

Mantis108

An excellent post.

[sanjuro_ronin]

...Back in the days, you would not be able to leave and learn from someone else without consequences. But now it's a different story. So...

Actually, it was very common "back in the day", as evidenced by the majority of Sifu who trained in more than one systems, sometimes 3 or 4.

[mantis108]

I knew a very well known and respected sifu who told me (in Cantonese) that everything he teaches is watered down but since no one but a select few would ever know what was the difference? :rolleyes:

The same guy had a top student teaching his classes one day, the movement in the set they were working on literally screamed "arm lock into leg sweep" I mean, it just SCREAMED IT! Well, someone had come into the school for info and was standing there. The top student was talking to the new guy who had just walked in and told him "no, our system DOES NOT HAVE any grappling" :eek:

At times CMA is truly pathetic

Oh, on topic, I studied with Sifu Yip a short period (around 4 months). While it appears there is Chin Na in the system, I never saw it taught

I hear you. I decided to not continue on the study of Lung Ying and Bak Mei long ago basically because of the reason that I saw that there was a closed mindedness and unwillingness to adapt. I was told that my physique is not ideal for certain forms; therefore, would not be able to learn a certain forms. To me that means I won't be able to complete the entire system. Personally, I am interested in finishing something that I started by all means. If I am not able to complete in its entirety. Well, I would just have to drop it. But that's just in my particular case I suppose.

Just a thought.

Regards

Mantis108

[lkfmdc]

I was told that my physique is not ideal for certain forms; therefore, would not be able to learn a certain forms.



I may be jaded after all these years, but to me everytime I hear stuff like that it seems to me that what it really equals is "I don't really know that, so I am making an exuse why I can't show it to you"...

[doug maverick]

I may be jaded after all these years, but to me everytime I hear stuff like that it seems to me that what it really equals is "I don't really know that, so I am making an exuse why I can't show it to you"...

gotta agree on that. while its true some forms are harder for others(i once learned a form from a friend that involved being crouched low to the ground being over six feet you could imagine how hard it was) then some. it just means you have to work harder at it. i been fortunate to have some pretty good sifu's. probably only one of them was really well known. but i always got good no nonsence instruction. my lung ying sifu's ego was too big to let him teach a watered down version of the style if one his sudents lost in a fight he wold throw them out of the school. and if you couldn't get a movement or a form right he kicked you out and said he won;t teach you until you get the form or movement down perfect. my hung gar and xing yi sifu were similar.

[mkriii]

gotta agree on that. while its true some forms are harder for others(i once learned a form from a friend that involved being crouched low to the ground being over six feet you could imagine how hard it was) then some. it just means you have to work harder at it. i been fortunate to have some pretty good sifu's. probably only one of them was really well known. but i always got good no nonsence instruction. my lung ying sifu's ego was too big to let him teach a watered down version of the style if one his sudents lost in a fight he wold throw them out of the school. and if you couldn't get a movement or a form right he kicked you out and said he won;t teach you until you get the form or movement down perfect. my hung gar and xing yi sifu were similar.


While that may be true how do you expect a student who is lets say overweight and just can't physically do a particular move such as lets say a butterfly kick or a kip up that might be in a form? Do you just kick them out and let them come back when they loose 40 or 50 pounds? That doesn't seem right. Would it be exceptable or okay to adjust the form for him? Pherhaps instead of a kip up maybe alter the form to where he/she can do a forward roll into a stand up position instead of the kip up? Your thoughts?

[doug maverick]

being over weight is no excuse look at people like sammo hung. he use to do butterfly kciks back flips summer saults and all that. cause he worked at it. it doesn't matter you just gotta work harder. i'm six foot two 240- and i could do butterfly kicks butterfly twist and a few other tricks. and they didn't come easy they came from work. martial arts is about having the self discipline to continue to do something even when it seems impossible you don't just say oh i'm to tal i can't do that or i'm to fat i can't do that you work at it. **** people are so lazy these days we live in a mcdonals society that wants instant gratifications, nobody wants tow work for it anymore. not saying this in no way applies to you i'm just stating it. it's a sickness

[Steeeve]

Aloha to IZ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OMLoAtC9RY

I only know big heart .....the physical are just a vehicle......

Whatever what you learned you have to fit it to your body ,to your spirit
and if you are wise ....you could have ur own way...in the time


Peace

Steeve

[Steeeve]

In fact after some research

the pak mei style of Hong kong is probably a derived of the dragon style ...
another Bruce Lee .....here:)

about chinna .....probably each style used chinna coming from other styles but dragon style dont have a lot .....the arm bar seem to be the more used ...thats a striking style first ....but the seem to used a lot of neck manipulation(break) at close range and some foot trapping

about physical ......probably a big men could used very well dragon style .....to crash in the opponent eat his space .....and have the rooting and grappling

two cent here

Steeve

[Steeeve]

hey

take a look at this link

http://www.youtube.com/user/nydragon7

Ok some explainaition of What I said

CLC learned the dragon style from LYK ......a style for a big men like Lam Yui kwai .....since he was small and skinny he have to adapt it to himself ....thats give the pak mei of HK.....a derived of the dragon style for small and skinny frame.....using the pheonix eye punch mostly with a good conditionning and less aggressive or svery forward of the dragon style ....NO Mass NO Impact....Dragon is very aggressive you crash your opponent with powerful punch ,head butts close range attack .....and go for throw or neck break .....

Dragon could be a wild Boar for us



Steeve

[Ao Qin]

Hello,

I've been a student of Lung Ying & Bak Mei for over 20 years. I think it's really how much the teacher understands of the art and is able to transmit to their students:). Maybe more importantly their own personal preference.

When I train with my sifu in Edmonton, the entire time is spent doing the chin-nah applications from the forms. It is very, very long and painful work (brutal in fact). Doing this sort of work for three hours at a stretch is not an easy feat. And he is incredibly skilled in this art. He truly has the "magic hands" of Dragon Style. When I train with my si-bak in HK, he emphasizes more the pushing / pulling aspects of the style, and can easily control and send flying anyone who attacks him. He also knows all the point hitting / chin-nah etc., but it's more from the tai-chi that he does.

My point is that every art should contain everything - but everyone needs different teachers to transmit all that they need. I focus personally on power generation (for health and fitness), but less on the chin-nah, because it's hard for me to make it "work" in real life. Other people don't have this problem. To each their own!

Cheers - AQ

[Mulong]

Kudos for those who chimed in; the veil should be removed. In this day in age there is no need for secrets or ignorance.

[Steeeve]

Whats about the Futshan Bak mei

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnq1iKc8b1Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAw3UofFo4A&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EHO6rWCVTM&feature=related


Steeve

[Mulong]

Steeeve,

Watching those sets I see all the hidden qinna techniques; a lot of choke holds, etc.

[meltdawn]

hi. lung ying has pretty much every aspect of hand to hand combat except groundfighting, with an emphasis on smashing a weak guard or tricking a strong guard to open and then grabbing whatever is presented (throat, limb, crotch), sucking it in and destroying it in the process of destroying the opponent. what a teacher chooses to teach of the system depends upon his depth of knowledge, personal experience and preference. you get a guy who's been smacking around in brawls, he probably isn't going to teach you cum la sau. you get a guy who dedicated a long period of life to studying the intricacies of the art, and he probably isnt going to insist on the brutal conditioning. people are just different nowadays.

i think that more important than learning all the hands and all the forms, all the ranges and all the capabilities of an art, is to understand its practicality to what you want to achieve or learn within your span of study. if you find yourself deeply immersed later on in your adventure, okay, THEN it is time to debate these things about what your style does or does not have, and begin to explore how deep the rabbit hole goes. so many forms have been created just within this style alone that it leaves people wondering more about the "where did it come from" than the "what does it have to offer". some lung ying forms were created almost completely out of a 3-hand combination that existed umpteen years ago. but we look at the trees and miss the forest.

there's no veil, just people who want to get the knowledge before they are really able to understand it. a bit like a 14 year old going to Yale. yeah sure he wants it, but can he really "get it"? the information is out there. the path is pretty friggin' forked though, pun intended. maybe some teachers get it, maybe others don't. we are all human. :)

[mantis108]

Excellent! You know I've always find Trinity pretty hot and tempting. :D I think the true is always out there somewhere and may be it is in Hong Kong after all. ;)

Mantis108

[bakxierboxer]

.... an emphasis on smashing a weak guard or tricking a strong guard to open and then grabbing whatever is presented (throat, limb, crotch), sucking it....

????????? :confused:
I always thought that all those references to the marital arts were misspellings......
Hmmmm..... a truly deadly combination of both martial and marital arts!
Oh, Frabjous Day! :D :rolleyes:

[Steeeve]

its not whos right ....its whos left:D

Steeve

[Steeeve]

Dragon Lung Ying is a one of my prefer style


Why dont talk about the basic Sup Luk dung forms (the 16 mouvements) almost the same of the HK Pak mei Jik Bo:)


Steeve

[Steeeve]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BZ5E9Iqxpo&feature=related


Enjoy

Steeve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GvUa6FHpM0&feature=related

Im a baise player:D

[hakka jai]

Hi Folks,
saw this on youtube -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-0BJVMBZsw&feature=related & just wondering who the old sifu is? ,he's great.


cheers
hakka jai :)

[Steeeve]

Just take a guess

Sifu Lam Chan kwong or Lam wun gwong ????????????????


Steeve

[meltdawn]

this is Master Lee Fat at the age of 78.

RIP.

龍形派元老-李發 逝世

龍形派元老 李發 於二零零七年十二月八日晚上因病逝世

[Steeeve]

meldawn

I try ur link but thats not work Bro:)

Lum's Dragon Style Boxing Association

Steeve