For the vegetarians: Not all protein sources are equal

[bodhitree]

Unless you don't mind reduced sperm:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7519459.stm

Go eat some tofu, I'll stick with my beef and chicken!

[sanjuro_ronin]

This is old news, I am sure they are aware of this and other issues.

[CFT]

Right ... and China still has a 'One Child' policy because?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Right ... and China still has a 'One Child' policy because?

Because they have too many people ?
Duh?
:D

[CFT]

... because soya just doesn't have as shocking an effect on fertility as that study may suggest.

Tofu has been consumed by the Chinese for over 2 millennia, no reducing population problems.

[sanjuro_ronin]

... because soya just doesn't have as shocking an effect on fertility as that study may suggest.

Tofu has been consumed by the Chinese for over 2 millennia, no reducing population problems.

They also eat meat, all types too, pork, duck, dog, small woodland creatures, shaolin tacos, etc, etc.

[CFT]

They also eat meat, all types too, pork, duck, dog, small woodland creatures, shaolin tacos, etc, etc.Only as standard of living has improved. It was still common that the family meal was vegetables, tofu, maybe fish. Meat was a luxury.

In any case, soya protein would not have been the only source of protein for some of the men in that study.

[bodhitree]

All it takes is one sperm to get someone pregnant. My claim is to OPTIMIZE sex hormones, for training purposes, soy protein and soy products should be used in moderation.

Sanjuro: Shaolin Taco FTW

[sanjuro_ronin]

All it takes is one sperm to get someone pregnant. My claim is to OPTIMIZE sex hormones, for training purposes, soy protein and soy products should be used in moderation.

Sanjuro: Shaolin Taco FTW

The "androgenizing" effects of soy have been well documented, hence high level athletes are taught to avoid or at the very least curtail its use.
I know a few elite level athletes that are vegitarians and the amount of supplementing they do is quite high, especially for protein and creatine.

[SPJ]

We are limited to our food supplies.

If you live in the great plains area of western China, that include Qing Hai, some mongolia and tibet etc.

We have to drink horse milk or goat milk freshly squeezed in the morning. They continue to drink during the day till it is all gone. No left over from yesterday as it will go bad.

We have to eat some breads or big pancakes. We have to eat muttons. Horses are way too important to carry tents, travel, -- nobody eats horse meats.

--

They are all good horseman and good wrestlers, since they ride and wrestle since kids.

--

Pigs are not eaten by moslem people.

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My point is that we eat whatever protein sources we may have readily available and cheaper. Be it fishes, chicken--

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all proteins have to be broken down by our body and then assimilated into our own.

--

Now I am drooling for the sauerkraut mutton soup in the moslem Chinese restaurant.

I am also drooling for the beef in the mogolian restaurant/

I never like the yake milk from the tibetan restaurant, horse milk and goat milk are o.k for me.

--

I am so quilty of being a meat eater.

:D;)

[SPJ]

What I meant was;

There are places that it is very difficult to eat veggie only.

such as you live in the great plains or desert areas.

They have to eat meat since veggies are not not readily available.

:eek:

[Lucas]

Men can eat just vegitables. its just takes a lot of extra effort and study.

men can fly. it just takes a lot of extra effort and study. (airplanes)

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

They also eat meat, all types too, pork, duck, dog, small woodland creatures, shaolin tacos, etc, etc.

dont forget children. chinese people eat children. it's a fact.

[KC Elbows]

dont forget children. chinese people eat children. it's a fact.

It's part of the One Entree Policy.

[GeneChing]

Those meat filled Shaolin tacos are only modern wushu.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

real old skool shaolin tacos coult durn meat into feces without even touching it.

[SimonM]

Only as standard of living has improved. It was still common that the family meal was vegetables, tofu, maybe fish. Meat was a luxury.

In any case, soya protein would not have been the only source of protein for some of the men in that study.

As somebody who has been to rural China I have to say that Tofu is most often used as a bit of a spacer. You have a bit of belly pork - not too much because pork is expensive - so what you do is chop up some tofu and mix it in with the pork and veggies dish. The tofu absorbs the flavour of the meat and could almost be mistaken for pork fat.

And that is how many Chinese people most often use Tofu.

That or they cover it in chilli peppers.

[Mr Punch]

Not this old pants again. When I can be arsed I'll dig up the research that tells you why this is. Most plant oestrogen in soy has no effect on people: it's unassimiliable [edit: this last statement is total bollocks!). With young beans it has some effect [edit: that last statement is kind of wrong too! :D ]; with processes like the tofu, miso, natto making processes, there is no effect.

With genetically modified soy there is a documented difference. BTW I studied GM as part of my degree - I'm not a knee-jerk anti-GMer, but in the case of soy the alleles they modify and the reasons they modify them have precisely the effect we're talking about. BTW2, I can't remember the figures off the top of my head, but I think it's 60% of processed foods in the States contain soy, and 80% of the soy in the States is GM. That was over ten years ago, and I seem to remember GM soy being over 90% now.

That's why you guys have tits and fire blanks.

Edit: Read this. (http://martial.best.vwh.net/forum/showpost.php?p=692186&postcount=1) Hell, I'm just right in the end! :D

[SimonM]

Be that as it may, the average Chinese rural peasant will mix some pork with their Tofu when they can afford the cost of a tiny piece of pork...

Maybe it's just because they like pork.

[Mr Punch]

And in Japan there's no such tradition: yet Japan had never had a documented fertility problem until the last ten years (well into US food imports) and has the longest average life-span.

[golden arhat]

dunno but i'm cool with reduced sperm counts


less people = good


besides

i aint plannin on havin kids soon

[golden arhat]

hold on a second

dont they feed tofu to cattle?

and there are loadds of them?

[CLFLPstudent]

I would guess they probably artificially inseminate cattle.... to let them run around humping each other all day wouldn't be good, even if they were firing blanks

-David

[Zenshiite]

I always find this stuff really really really suspect. I've been eating tofu and other soy products for a decade now as a staple protein source. I'm as virile as they come, my 2 year old is bigger and more muscular than most of the 2 year olds I see on any kind of a regular basis.

I have a friend that supposedly had some kind of a yang deficiency in his kidneys(TCM organ system that governs reproduction mind you) who was vegan for a decade and like every time he'd have sex him and his ex-wife were having another kid. Dude got divorced and shortly after got another woman pregnant in the twinkling of an eye. Again, soy big staple of his protein intake.

My experience suggests that this is bull****.

[monkey mind]

I'm always surprised at the false choice that's presented: it's either meat or tofu for protein. I occasionally eat fish, but in the past I've been 100% veggie, and there are many sources of protein available. Lacto-ovo types can eat dairy (I eat lots of yogurt and egg whites), and for vegans there are nuts, seeds, beans, etc. Getting enough vitamin B12 is really more of a challenge for vegans than getting enough protein. Anyone undertaking a veggie diet would do well to educate themselves first about how to meet their nutritional needs, but its not that hard to do.

[Zenshiite]

I'm always surprised at the false choice that's presented: it's either meat or tofu for protein. I occasionally eat fish, but in the past I've been 100% veggie, and there are many sources of protein available. Lacto-ovo types can eat dairy (I eat lots of yogurt and egg whites), and for vegans there are nuts, seeds, beans, etc. Getting enough vitamin B12 is really more of a challenge for vegans than getting enough protein. Anyone undertaking a veggie diet would do well to educate themselves first about how to meet their nutritional needs, but its not that hard to do.

Even b12 isn't as much of a problem as it is made out to be. Hell, drink one of those 5 hour energy shots and you're getting something like 6000% of the daily value of b12. Now, the amount absorbed is another matter... but one of those with any food that has been fortified. Much less sources like blue-green algea that are quite literally higher in b12 content than any animal food and a vegan is pretty well covered. You can't find a soymilk on the market that's not already fortified with b12.

There's alot of myths that I've heard over the years, and not a one has panned out for me. Besides, what am I supposed to say when I have a 2 year that is seemingly developing faster both athletically and intellectually than most other kids his age? It's part genetics, part environment and part diet. I have yet to meet children of meat eaters that are quite where he's at, though. It was the same with my friend's first born son that I mentioned before. Real big kid, and not fat, baby muscle.

[SevenStar]

All it takes is one sperm to get someone pregnant. My claim is to OPTIMIZE sex hormones, for training purposes, soy protein and soy products should be used in moderation.

Sanjuro: Shaolin Taco FTW

also meat proteins are more complete than soy

[SevenStar]

Even b12 isn't as much of a problem as it is made out to be. Hell, drink one of those 5 hour energy shots and you're getting something like 6000% of the daily value of b12. Now, the amount absorbed is another matter... but one of those with any food that has been fortified. Much less sources like blue-green algea that are quite literally higher in b12 content than any animal food and a vegan is pretty well covered. You can't find a soymilk on the market that's not already fortified with b12.

There's alot of myths that I've heard over the years, and not a one has panned out for me. Besides, what am I supposed to say when I have a 2 year that is seemingly developing faster both athletically and intellectually than most other kids his age? It's part genetics, part environment and part diet. I have yet to meet children of meat eaters that are quite where he's at, though. It was the same with my friend's first born son that I mentioned before. Real big kid, and not fat, baby muscle.

sounds like my youngest. he's only 1.5, has visible muscle development, and has been talking since forever ago. I took him into the barber shop with a muscle shirt on and nobody could believe it. his diet is all chicken and cow

[bodhitree]

sounds like my youngest. he's only 1.5, has visible muscle development, and has been talking since forever ago. I took him into the barber shop with a muscle shirt on and nobody could believe it. his diet is all chicken and cow


7* genes, hello:D