The 6 Elbows of Kung Fu -

[hakka jai]

Hi Folks ,
i dont know if its this magazine/IKF but it featured a article containing the southern style of 6 elbows by Chun Man Sit . If anyone has it ,is it possible to post the article online ?


cheers
hakka jai :)

[Mulong]

I have it, but sadly it is in storage; will take long to find. Man that article is over 20 years old.

It is a good article; have you thought of contacting Chun Man Sit; maybe he has a copy of the article floating around.

[KC Elbows]

Most of the content of that article can be found on his website, www.taihui.com , I believe.

I think that article is only a few years old, though. For instance, the photos of students are largely from the late nineties, good folk.

Try searching chinese websites for taixuquan, which is the Mandarin usage, most of the schools seem to use that name for their websites and texts, even though it is from the South. Although this won't turn up his article, you will be able to find a lot of footage.

There's a number of teachers in Guangzhou and Canton, one in Canada, a few in KC, though, sadly, the first American to teach the system died a few years back.

[Mulong]

KC Elbow,

Sit Shifu actually wrote one in the mid to late 80's; I think that is the one hakka jai is referring too.

[hakka jai]

Yep Mulong is right ,the article i'm refering to is couple of decades old,doesnt time flyby:( , but i'm a patience guy ,mulong :). There was a article that featured 6 elbows in KFM but i dont know if it was the same guy who wrote it . Anyway guys thanx for the help & if you's have any more info ,look forward from hearing from us. looked into Sit's website doesnt give you much on 6 elbows ,more on his tai chi & internal works.

cheers
hakka jai :)

[hakka jai]

hi folks,
alot of systems have elbow sets in their systems but what makes 6elbows different as to name their art 6 elbows??? KC Elbows- did ask you instructed on chinese websites/search engines for taixuquan ,all the they came up with is mostly taichi,mixture of systems,the list that you post of the instructors worldwide are they 6 elbow instructors/sifu???



cheers
hakka jai :)

[KC Elbows]

There was a article that featured 6 elbows in KFM but i dont know if it was the same guy who wrote it .

That was by Sit as well.

[KC Elbows]

hi folks,
alot of systems have elbow sets in their systems but what makes 6elbows different as to name their art 6 elbows??? KC Elbows- did ask you instructed on chinese websites/search engines for taixuquan ,all the they came up with is mostly taichi,mixture of systems,the list that you post of the instructors worldwide are they 6 elbow instructors/sifu???

Six elbows is a nickname for taixuquan/taihuiquan, which is a style of taiji practiced in the South of China, thus the confusion.

[Mulong]

KC Elbow,

Interesting; I have seen Sit Shifu demonstrating it and his students, who I have personally judge, and it didn’t seem like a taiji derived style, but more akin to a Hakka style.

P.S. They have a great southern staff set.

[KC Elbows]

KC Elbow,

Interesting; I have seen Sit Shifu demonstrating it and his students, who I have personally judge, and it didn’t seem like a taiji derived style, but more akin to a Hakka style.

P.S. They have a great southern staff set.

The influences depend on what you saw demonstrated. The taihui/taixu set, called within Sit's school "the internal form", is actually the entirety of the open hand in taixuquan/taihuiquan. The staff set is actually the only other surviving form, to my knowledge, from taixuquan/taihuiquan, and it is, in fact, a spear set; from China, I have seen some interesting variations of this set. I have heard tell of a broadsword set that did not survive the cultural revolution, but this was heard thirdhand, as were stories of a wooden dummy set.

However, these sets:

The basic form
Little Buddha
Continuous Cannon Fist
Coiling Dragon
Bik Da
A fan form
A broadsword form

...are actually forms put together by Sit to familiarize students with basic kung fu from various styles, and because the students enjoy those sets. The first five are external forms that have a lot of standard kung fu, with amounts of taixuquan put in at certain steps, bik da being the sole form having a lot of taixu applications in it.

The fan form is a standard fan form, not from taixuquan, and both those weapon sets have some influences, imo, from Sit's Wu style straight sword, a very nice form, and the one I enjoy watching him do most.

The six elbows monicker in KC has come to be associated with Sit's curriculum, and so actually represent one core style, plus a training regimen of forms that are not necessarily from that style, but used to condition the students and get them more coordinated, as the core footwork of taixu is often misconstrued, which can lead to knee problems for the uncoordinated.

In most cases, students are competing with the other forms. If it is in the external division, they always are, so you would have seen one of the first five forms there. Some have competed in the internal division with the taixuquan set, and Sit and a student of his Richard used to often demo in the master's demo with the internal form.

As for whether there is a Hakka influence, couldn't tell you, the history doesn't favor that, but not having seen the imperial documents held in China on the style, all I know is from various teachers' translations.

In KC, some schools use the six elbows name, others use the taixuquan name, those using the taixuquan name exclude coiling dragon and continuous cannon fist forms from the curriculum, although there appears to be a move going on to concentrate solely on the taixuquan open hand set and the spear set. I and several others solely practice these two, aside from kung fu we learned elsewhere, though my taixuquan set is influences by a great number of sources, chief among them Sit's, his teacher's, and Sifu Reyes'. Because the style leaves room for several options on specific moves, part of knowing the style is knowing when and why those variations are important.

I have seen some forms from China developed by particular taixuquan teachers that resemble bik da in that they are simple introductions to taixuquan with little to no outside influence, such things are teacher specific. As far as my research has gone, it seems that the only constant is the spear set and the taixuquan set, and even within these there is room for much variation.

Hope that helps.

[hakka jai]

KC elbows, have learnt the staff set from the system as mentioned by mulong?.


cheers
Hakka jai :)

[Mulong]

KC Elbow,

Thanks for the insight; truly appreciated.

Curious do they "issue energy" (fajin/faat ging); I ask, because Sit Shifu's students did, i.e., Reys Brothers?

[KC Elbows]

KC Elbow,

Thanks for the insight; truly appreciated.

Curious do they "issue energy" (fajin/faat ging); I ask, because Sit Shifu's students did, i.e., Reys Brothers?

Yes. Mike Reyes is the one who taught me the system, he is a good friend of mine.

[KC Elbows]

KC elbows, have learnt the staff set from the system as mentioned by mulong?.


cheers
Hakka jai :)

Yes, I learned it a few years back.

[Mulong]

KC Elbows,

That's good to hear; I use to judge both of them, i.e., Reyes, and actually spoke with their parents ages ago.

Their staff was very strong; a solid southern staff set.

[hakka jai]

Hi KC elbows,
Still dont get ,how the system aquired the nickname 6 elbows???.



cheers
hakka jai :)

[KC Elbows]

Hi KC elbows,
Still dont get ,how the system aquired the nickname 6 elbows???.



cheers
hakka jai :)

There are six elbow methods. Sort of.

[KC Elbows]

KC Elbows,

That's good to hear; I use to judge both of them, i.e., Reyes, and actually spoke with their parents ages ago.

Their staff was very strong; a solid southern staff set.

Mike isn't sure which judge you are, but he's pretty sure it would have been at Dallas that you met his folks. Is that right?

[mawali]

There are quite a few "Elbow" styles associated with some styles. One Chen sytem has an elbow style associated with training but I believe it is more training than style/system. I did not study such a system but while I was in St Louis in the 90's, there was a guy caled Chun Man Sit who had an elbow system/style I believe was from S. China. I have seen it demonstrated and it seems to be complementary to any system or style.

There seems to have been at least a few systems but as each family learnt it, it became their own famiy style over the centuries.

[Mulong]

KC Elbow,

Yes; I'm also friend with their shifu. Is Mike the taller/oldest one? (At this moment, I don't recall.)

[KC Elbows]

KC Elbow,

Yes; I'm also friend with their shifu. Is Mike the taller/oldest one? (At this moment, I don't recall.)

No, that's Rudy. Rudy never learned the entire taixu system, but does MMA in California. For a good part of the last ten years, he was a recon marine, and is actually currently playing himself in the HBO series Kill Generation, which is based on a series of articles written by a Rolling Stones reporter who followed Rudy's unit in Iraq.

Mike is the the younger one, he teaches out here, and pretty much trains as hard as he always did.

[Mulong]

KC Elbow,

Thanks for clarifying and updating of their whereabouts/doing (great guys). Therefore, Mike should remember me, when the judges weren't able to appreciate his use of fajin and gave first to someone, who looked like he was constipated doing his form.

[KC Elbows]

KC Elbow,

Thanks for clarifying and updating of their whereabouts/doing (great guys). Therefore, Mike should remember me, when the judges weren't able to appreciate his use of fajin and gave first to someone, who looked like he was constipated doing his form.

LOL!!! That's hilarious.:D

[scottdurand]

I ran into a Sifu years ago and always tried to remember his name, Chu Man Sit. KCEblows, is it you? I think we met at a tournament in 1996 in Alabama.

[jo]

http://www.youtube.com/user/JookLumFist#p/u/28/fVYJVWYloI0

- jo