Kids and MMA [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

GeneChing

03-27-2008, 09:43 AM

I've heard of other MMA teen leagues starting. Six seems too young to me.

Ultimate Fights Expand to Include Kids (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j0i6-DJeEQpXKJiVx2054FBCPnlQD8VLOI802)

By MARCUS KABEL – 4 hours ago

CARTHAGE, Mo. (AP) — Ultimate fighting was once the sole domain of burly men who beat each other bloody in anything-goes brawls on pay-per-view TV.

But the sport often derided as "human ****fighting" is branching out.

The bare-knuckle fights are now attracting competitors as young as 6 whose parents treat the sport as casually as wrestling, Little League or soccer.

The changes were evident on a recent evening in southwest Missouri, where a team of several young boys and one girl grappled on gym mats in a converted garage.

Two members of the group called the "Garage Boys Fight Crew" touched their thin martial-arts gloves in a flash of sportsmanship before beginning a relentless exchange of sucker punches, body blows and swift kicks.

No blood was shed. And both competitors wore protective gear. But the bout reflected the decidedly younger face of ultimate fighting. The trend alarms medical experts and sports officials who worry that young bodies can't withstand the pounding.

Tommy Bloomer, father of two of the "Garage Boys," doesn't understand the fuss.

"We're not training them for dog fighting," said Bloomer, a 34-year-old construction contractor. "As a parent, I'd much rather have my kids here learning how to defend themselves and getting positive reinforcement than out on the streets."

Bloomer said the sport has evolved since the no-holds-barred days by adding weight classes to better match opponents and banning moves such as strikes to the back of the neck and head, groin kicking and head butting.

Missouri appears to be the only state in the nation that explicitly allows the youth fights. In many states, it is a misdemeanor for children to participate. A few states have no regulations.

Supporters of the sport acknowledge that allowing fights between kids sounds brutal at first. But they insist the competitions have plenty of safety rules.

"It looks violent until you realize this teaches discipline. One of the first rules they learn is that this is not for aggressive behavior outside (the ring)," said Larry Swinehart, a Joplin police officer and father of two boys and the lone girl in the garage group.

The sport, which is also known as mixed martial arts or cage fighting, has already spread far beyond cable television. Last month, CBS became the first of the Big Four television networks to announce a deal to broadcast primetime fights. The fights have attracted such a wide audience, they are threatening to surpass boxing as the nation's most popular pugilistic sport.

Hand-to-hand combat is also popping up on the big screen. The film "Never Back Down," described as "The Karate Kid" for the YouTube generation, has taken in almost $17 million in two weeks at the box office. Another current mixed martial arts movie, "Flash Point," an import from Hong Kong, is in limited release.

Bloomer said the fights are no more dangerous or violent than youth wrestling. He watched as his sons, 11-year-old Skyler and 8-year-old Gage, locked arms and legs and wrestled to the ground with other kids in the garage in Carthage, about 135 miles south of Kansas City.

The 11 boys and one girl on the team range from 6 to 14 years old and are trained by Rudy Lindsey, a youth wrestling coach and a professional mixed martial arts heavyweight.

"The kids learn respect and how to defend themselves. It's no more dangerous than any other sport and probably less so than some," Lindsey said.

Lindsey said the children wear protective headgear, shin guards, groin protection and martial-arts gloves. They fight quick, two-minute bouts. Rules also prohibit any elbow blows and blows to the head when an opponent is on the ground.

"If they get in trouble or get bad grades, I'll hear about it and they can't come to training," he added.

In most states, mixed martial arts is overseen by boxing commissions. In Missouri, the Office of Athletics regulates the professional fights but not the amateur events, which include the youth bouts. For amateurs, the regulation is done by sanctioning bodies that have to register with the athletics office.

The rules are different in Oklahoma, where unauthorized fights are generally a misdemeanor offense. The penalty is a maximum 30 days in jail and a fine up to $1,000.

Joe Miller, administrator of the Oklahoma Professional Boxing Commission, said youth fights are banned in his state, and he wants it to stay that way.

"There's too much potential for damage to growing joints," he said.

Miller said mixed martial arts uses a lot of arm and leg twisting to force opponents into submission. Those moves, he said, pressure joints in a way not found in sanctioned sports like youth boxing or wrestling.

But Nathan Orand, a martial arts trainer from Tulsa, Okla., said kids are capable of avoiding injuries, especially with watchful referees in the rings. He thinks the sport is bound to grow.

"I can see their point because when you say 'cage fighting,' that right there just sounds like kids shouldn't be doing it," Orand said.

"But you still have all the respect that regular martial arts teach you. And it's really the only true way for youth to be able to defend themselves."

Back in the Carthage garage, Bloomer said parents shouldn't worry about kids becoming aggressive from learning mixed martial arts. He said his older son was picked on by bullies at school repeatedly last year but never fought them, instead reporting the problem to his teachers.

And fighters including his 8-year-old son get along once a bout is over, Bloomer said.

"When they get out of the cage, they go back and play video games together. It doesn't matter who won and who lost. They're still little buddies."

sanjuro_ronin

03-27-2008, 09:51 AM

Personally I say eliminate the cage and it will do wonders for public perception and the olympic future prospect.

MasterKiller

03-27-2008, 01:07 PM

They had 6 year olds fighting in Tulsa the last time we fought, and as a result of poor officiating during those boughts (the judges were allowing head striking on the ground) Oklahoma suspended all amateur MMA for 1 year. They just recently started it again, but it's for 18+ and up.

The Garage Boys fought in that fight, and I have to say, these sorts of back-yard clubs have no business bringing people into fight when they don't even have adequate facilities in which to train. There were several of these clubs fighting that night, and I really felt sorry for the kids. In many cases, they didn't have people to wrap their hands or even warm them up properly.

sanjuro_ronin

03-27-2008, 01:16 PM

MasterKiller

03-27-2008, 03:12 PM

Any place that allows minors to box can, in theory, allow MMA IF it is not in a cage and if there is no GnP.
A case can be made for MMA under those circumstances, its basically a combination of Kick boxing and wrestling, both sports "sanctioned" by local sports jurisdictions.

Kids shouldn't be arm-barring one another, imo. I say 16+ is fine. Anything under that, and you better have HIGHLY restricted rules.

sanjuro_ronin

03-28-2008, 04:42 AM

Kids shouldn't be arm-barring one another, imo. I say 16+ is fine. Anything under that, and you better have HIGHLY restricted rules.

I agree, hence a combination of wrestling and kick-boxing.
Some have been using that here to circumvent some of the "issues" with MMA.

Becca

03-28-2008, 12:33 PM

You wouldn't let a kid drive a stock car just because they like NASCAR would you? Same with MMA. If a child is interested in it, then get them started off in something age appropriate like wrestling or one of the traditional martial arts. By the time they are in thier late teens, they will know if that is the right path for them and will have a skill set that will allow an easy transition into MMA. If not, they will still be healthy with no destroyed joints, trick knees or any other activity related disability.

sanjuro_ronin

03-28-2008, 12:44 PM

1bad65

03-28-2008, 04:26 PM

The Garage Boys fought in that fight, and I have to say, these sorts of back-yard clubs have no business bringing people into fight when they don't even have adequate facilities in which to train. There were several of these clubs fighting that night, and I really felt sorry for the kids. In many cases, they didn't have people to wrap their hands or even warm them up properly.

That's exactly what worries me, incompetant instruction. One of my instructors has a kids BJJ class. He is a legit BJJ Brown Belt. He has never had a kid injured in class or competition.

But the 'MMA craze' is giving birth to these poseurs who open up gyms and have no business teaching. Sounds like these guys are part of the problem. It's bad enough when adults are fooled by a bs resume and train with these guys, but it's even worse when they teach kids.

Shaolin Wookie

03-29-2008, 07:06 AM

It's a little Spartan, isn't it? I mean, if it's just a combo of MA and wrestling, it seems fine--as an activity. But venues and competition with ground striking, etc?

MMA might pride itself on its hardcore nature, but in terms of developmental psychology for kids? It's ridiculous........and I think this is just evidence of irresponsible parenting (by "irresponsible" I mean--pushing one's personal agenda onto a kid to do something one doesn't have the gall to do oneself). MMA requires a level of maturity. But like I said, if it's BJJ and MA, but with strict rules and regulations, with strict measures of "qualification" to keep out the wolves....I don't see an issue. Traditional MA's (including BJJ, etc.) do have ways of curbing bad behavior, and they require discipline. MMA might just be too.....well, there's not really a word for it.

I don't know of any MA group or educational institution that teaches kids the same way they teach adults.

Can you imagine a Punch Drunk teen? Kids just aren't built like fully-grown men...it's so obvious, it sounds ridiculous saying it. Plus, they're not independent, and they're not making their own health decisions. That's a big issue. I say: 18+.....no younger. Before that time, work on the arts you're going to eventually mix.

MasterKiller

03-29-2008, 09:56 AM

Shaolin Wookie

03-29-2008, 12:34 PM

Wookie, MMA is a sport, and legitimate MMA programs are run in the same vane as organized programs like wrestling, boxing, football etc.

If those programs can provide character building for youth, so can MMA. My concern is that young kids should be performing submissions on one another because their joints are not fully matured.

Your perception of MMA schools seems to be based on your exposure to fanboys online more than experience in a sport gym.

I don't know about that. The key to winning MMA is not pinning, scoring, or tackling (take-down), it's the brutalization of your opponent or pain-compliance holds leading to tapouts.

I 100% agree MMA can be used to build character--and I think it does so even with many pro-MMA fighters. Just look at Tito Ortiz. He's become a fine member of society and has married a very respectable woman.

MasterKiller

03-29-2008, 02:42 PM

I don't know about that. The key to winning MMA is not pinning, scoring, or tackling (take-down), it's the brutalization of your opponent or pain-compliance holds leading to tapouts.
You score points for landed and attempted techniques. That's how matches are decided in case of a non-submission or non-KO.

I 100% agree MMA can be used to build character--and I think it does so even with many pro-MMA fighters. Just look at Tito Ortiz. He's become a fine member of society and has married a very respectable woman. Check the "Busted Teachers" thread sometime.

Even SD produced at least one child rapist.

Shaolin Wookie

03-30-2008, 05:24 AM

You score points for landed and attempted techniques. That's how matches are decided in case of a non-submission or non-KO.

Check the "Busted Teachers" thread sometime.

Even SD produced at least one child rapist.

LOL....because we all know it was the SD, and not bad genes and a messed up psyche (and probably a history of abuse).

**** you SHAOLIN-DO!

1bad65

03-30-2008, 06:17 AM

Wookie, MMA is a sport, and legitimate MMA programs are run in the same vane as organized programs like wrestling, boxing, football etc.

If those programs can provide character building for youth, so can MMA. My concern is that young kids should be performing submissions on one another because their joints are not fully matured.

Your perception of MMA schools seems to be based on your exposure to fanboys online more than experience in a sport gym.

That was a very good post.

Every youth sport has the potential for injury. Even non-contact ones like gymnastics and swimming for example.

Like I said, my instructor is legit and keeps a very close eye on the kids when they perform submissions. Unlike an adult class, only 1 pair is rolling at a time for safety reasons. But again, is an instructor who really is not qualified to be teaching able to teach safely?

SW, what is your experience in MMA? Did you play youth sports? Does your gym have a kids class?

Shaolin Wookie

03-30-2008, 09:01 AM

Explain this to me then, b/c I don't see it in the video--

Are there KO's and bloodied faces in kids' MMA? Now, even TKD tourneys have those happen every once and a while, but they're accidents--they're not the modus operandi of the actual sport.

Do you prevent those kinds of injuries by circumventing the usual "pound into submission" platform of MMA?

Yeah, kids have gotten hurt sparring at the school I attend. But again, they're accidents, and you can chalk them up to the "casualties of chance" that you can chalk up to any sport (there are injuries in every sport I've ever played, all of them by accident).

But we're talking about something different, if the point of the match is to hurt the other opponent, are we not? I'm saying, a kid is not physically or mentally in the same state as an adult, and requires a different agenda. It's why point-sparring is legit for kids--it's not about hurting someone, so much as playing a game of tag.

It's just a shame when adults never mature beyond that paradigm.

1bad65

03-30-2008, 12:31 PM

Now, even TKD tourneys have those happen every once and a while, but they're accidents--they're not the modus operandi of the actual sport.

You know nothing about MMA or the training for MMA and you are showing it.

Do you prevent those kinds of injuries by circumventing the usual "pound into submission" platform of MMA?

You don't train 'alive' either do you? Newsflash: sparring is done at a much lower intensity that an actual bout. No one at my gym has ever been KO'd in training, but they have KO'd people in actual bouts. Amazing how that works. ;)

MasterKiller

03-30-2008, 02:57 PM

Ben Gash

03-30-2008, 03:47 PM

I find it somewhat disturbing to see kids doing stuff that wouldn't be allowed in many adult sub grappling tournaments. I mean that 6 year old got head spiked from a DDT, you can't even do that in UFC! I certainly have real issues with kids doing heel hooks, standing guillotines, neck cranks and G'n'P, all of which we saw there.

1bad65

03-30-2008, 05:02 PM

certainly have real issues with kids doing heel hooks, standing guillotines, neck cranks and G'n'P, all of which we saw there.

Like MK said, that 'gym' is a bunch of idiots.

MasterKiller

03-30-2008, 06:24 PM

Like MK said, that 'gym' is a bunch of idiots.

No, the video on the first post is kid's pankration. It's not the Garage Boys.

Becca

03-31-2008, 07:04 AM

Kids do judo and BJJ and wrestling, these sports don't effect the joints??Do you really think parents would still be taking thier kids there en-mass if the kids' joints were getting destroyed? The schools would have been shut down due to law suites. A school that's been open for 20 something years with no lawsuiets from former students is one of my favorite ways to "check out" a school. Do the traditional arts affect joints? yes, but so does walking. My point was that the kids will have healthy joints if they wait till late teens to use the skill sets needed for MMA. This is the same reason I don not think children should do any sort of weight program untill thier late teens.

Black Jack II

03-31-2008, 07:40 AM

Because of the submission issue, I am against it for kids this young. Not just that but yes, MMA like all other combative sports can help build character, but the other sports have a MUCH LONGER track record of doing so and in my view are much safer from a psychological and physical perspective at this time.

Not to say you can't have your kids do MMA when they are older, teens, but younger that that seem's to be more of a macho play.

sanjuro_ronin

03-31-2008, 07:44 AM

Do you really think parents would still be taking thier kids there en-mass if the kids' joints were getting destroyed? The schools would have been shut down due to law suites. A school that's been open for 20 something years with no lawsuiets from former students is one of my favorite ways to "check out" a school. Do the traditional arts affect joints? yes, but so does walking. My point was that the kids will have healthy joints if they wait till late teens to use the skill sets needed for MMA. This is the same reason I don not think children should do any sort of weight program untill thier late teens.

Again, Judo and wrestling do it, sure their are rules in place to keep certain moves out.
Point being is kids can do boxing and KB ( strikes) and they can do judo and wrestling ( grappling) , there is no reason that they can't do both is there?
Adapt the same rules that keep kids safe in those sports to MMA and eliminate the GnP or any striking when down.

GeneChing

03-31-2008, 11:08 AM

This is becoming our Kids & MMA thread. Should I change the title?

Mixed martial arts growing in popularity with kids (http://www.ksby.com/Global/story.asp?S=8085568)
Posted: March 28, 2008 01:32 PM
Reported by: Rob Carlmark

Mixed martial arts is among the fastest growing sports in America and it is attracting fans of all ages, including kids.

YouTube has dozens of videos of younger kids fighting in the organized sport that some people find shocking.

At The Pit mixed martial arts training center in Arroyo Grande, kids' colorings are right next to the gear. They have more than 300 kids training locally at their gyms, and their "Pit Master" says he helps them get strong physically and mentally, while staying safe.

"It is not a very dangerous sport. It is very well regulated, just like the pros. MMA is much safer than boxing or other sports, and our kids just don't get hurt," said John Hackleman, mixed martial arts trainer at The Pit.

John Hackleman says he has seen only one minor injury in seven years of training with kids.

More Children Learning Mixed Martial Arts (http://www.kmbc.com/news/15736817/detail.html)
POSTED: 5:55 pm CDT March 28, 2008
UPDATED: 6:23 pm CDT March 28, 2008

INDEPENDENCE, Mo. -- Ultimate fighting isn't just grownup guys trading punches on Pay-Per-View anymore.

The sport is so popular that children as young as 6 are learning, KMBC's Maria Antonia reported.

Instructors at Xtreme Couture Fitness in Independence said there is a right way and a wrong way for children to get into mixed martial arts, which is a combination of martial arts, wrestling and boxing.

Lead instructor John Cornett said that when children start out, they are not allowed to hit each other.

"We don't allow our kids to even spar or make contact with each other," Cornett said.

Medical experts said if children are allowed to cage-fight, it can lead to significant injuries to the neck, bones and ligaments.

Cornett said martial arts requires a lot of training and teaches children discipline.

"If they're able to sit in class, and learn how to read, learn how to do critical thinking, I think they're able to learn how to do a martial art," Cornett.

Meanwhile, the adult version of ultimate fighting is incredibly intense.

"It's raw competition. It's two men in a cage, going at each other, and it's whoever's the best athlete," Cornett said.

One critic of ultimate fighting called it "human ****fighting."

An Associated Press survey found that Missouri may be the only state that explicitly allows youth fights. In other states, it is a misdemeanor, and some states have no regulations.

Becca

03-31-2008, 01:34 PM

Again, Judo and wrestling do it, sure their are rules in place to keep certain moves out.
Point being is kids can do boxing and KB ( strikes) and they can do judo and wrestling ( grappling) , there is no reason that they can't do both is there?
Adapt the same rules that keep kids safe in those sports to MMA and eliminate the GnP or any striking when down.
Yes, they can. but they, by and large, do not have the mental framework to stop before maiming. kids shoot kids with guns because they don't spo and think of the outcome before the outcome is in thier face. with some pscycotic sport-parent behind them, a kid with MMA skills would, not could, would be much worse becuase guns are obviously weepons and MMA is sport when used right... but a weopon when used wrong. Some 10-year-olds have the mental framework to tell dad to shove it when dear old dad tells little johnny to "slip" and take out a knee... but most don't. and that kind of disgusting behavior is already prevelant in kids TMA. So by all meens, lets add even more variables, even more technically demanding techniques and see how well little johnny can juggle before something gets missed and he or his opponant end up in a body cast.........

sanjuro_ronin

04-01-2008, 04:21 AM

Yes, they can. but they, by and large, do not have the mental framework to stop before maiming. kids shoot kids with guns because they don't spo and think of the outcome before the outcome is in thier face. with some pscycotic sport-parent behind them, a kid with MMA skills would, not could, would be much worse becuase guns are obviously weepons and MMA is sport when used right... but a weopon when used wrong. Some 10-year-olds have the mental framework to tell dad to shove it when dear old dad tells little johnny to "slip" and take out a knee... but most don't. and that kind of disgusting behavior is already prevelant in kids TMA. So by all meens, lets add even more variables, even more technically demanding techniques and see how well little johnny can juggle before something gets missed and he or his opponant end up in a body cast.........

That view must be applied to ALL sport systems for it to hold any merit whatsoever.

Fact is, those things don't happen in Judo, or boxing or wrestling, why would they happen in MMA ?

Again, if one follows the rules of the major sports that have been formulted for kids to keep them safe and competitive, there is no reason not to have the same results in MMA:

Allow strikes with protective gear - Boxing and KB
Allow throws and takedowns - wrestling and judo
Alow pins and submissions(after a certain age and "ranking" - wrestling and judo.

You are not doing anything that isn't already being done.

Oso

04-01-2008, 04:34 AM

you're going to have psyco parents in any sport (not to mention things like 5 year old beauty pagents:mad:) and the one that suffers the most from that is the kid.

bad kids are going to do bad things with whatever they know, just like adults.

i think the most cogent point is that limitations need to be placed on techniques based on the physiology of kids and there are probably not enough people paying attention to that who can really make a professionally based opinion.

Becca

04-01-2008, 07:26 AM

That view must be applied to ALL sport systems for it to hold any merit whatsoever.

Fact is, those things don't happen in Judo, or boxing or wrestling, why would they happen in MMA ?

Again, if one follows the rules of the major sports that have been formulted for kids to keep them safe and competitive, there is no reason not to have the same results in MMA:

Allow strikes with protective gear - Boxing and KB
Allow throws and takedowns - wrestling and judo
Alow pins and submissions(after a certain age and "ranking" - wrestling and judo.

You are not doing anything that isn't already being done.
I do hold that veiw with every sport. Kids need good teachers, more so than adults. If I felt an MMA teacher was very good at teaching children, I'd let my kids do MMA at a young age. I only know a few matial arts teachers who I trust to teach my kids, and only one of those does MMA. He even recomends kids start off with wrestling or other, more traditional arts.

I have also seen kids in sports who shouldn't be in them because of thier parents.

jackmcmanus21

04-01-2008, 01:03 PM

I don't have a problem with it as long as there are good refs and coaches involved. Kids are going to get hit in the head a few times in their life....its not a bad thing for them to toughen up a bit.

GeneChing

04-04-2008, 12:12 PM

...deserves legislation to ban. :rolleyes:

Lawmakers' proposal takes aim at mixed martial arts (http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/local_story_095002929.html)
By Derek Spellman
dspellman@joplinglobe.com

Two local lawmakers have proposed legislation that would ban mixed martial arts competitions for people younger than 18 in the wake of reports that youngsters have taken up the sport.

But a local man who teaches mixed martial arts to youngsters in Carthage said the proposal stems from a lack of understanding of the sport and the reasons why it has utilized a cage in competitions.

Rep. Bryan Stevenson, R-Webb City, one of the measure’s co-sponsors, acknowledged that the bill “may be a bit broad” as currently written, but he defended it as an initial step in bringing oversight to a largely unregulated sport that he said poses risks of injury to children.

Missouri appears to be the only state in the nation that explicitly allows the youth fights. A few states have no regulations, and most other states have deemed it a crime for children to participate.

Stevenson said he has seen video clips of youth fights, some of whose members are part of the Garage Boys Fight Crew based in Carthage. The group has 11 boys and one girl ranging from 6 to 14 years old. Critics of the sport have contended that mixed martial arts employs arm- and leg-twisting maneuvers that put pressure on joints in a way not found in sanctioned sports like youth boxing or wrestling.

“I’m very concerned,” Stevenson said of what he saw on the clips. “I’m very concerned that some of the activities border on child endangerment.”

Members of the Garage Boys Fight Crew are trained by Rudy Lindsey, a youth wrestling coach and a professional mixed martial arts heavyweight.

Lindsey and his school were the subject of an Associated Press article published late last month. Stevenson said he had begun investigating regulations on operations like Lindsey’s several weeks before the article broke, and he received numerous calls from constituents decrying the program after the article’s publication.

“We ban dogfighting and rooster fighting, but we are sticking kids in a cage,” Stevenson said. “Something is wrong with that.”

But Lindsey said neither the bill’s proponents nor critics have taken time to understand mixed martial arts and what it teaches young people.

“It’s not about beating each other up or about winning and losing,” he said.

Lindsey defended the sport as one that takes place in a safe, controlled environment featuring adult supervision, protective gear, and strict rules for behavior both inside and outside the class. Lindsey argued that the class instills discipline, self-restraint and self-esteem. One student, for example, let his grades slip and was not allowed to train until he revived them, he said.

Lindsey said his young students have participated in more than a half-dozen competitions without any injuries.

yenhoi

04-07-2008, 05:18 AM

Sean Hannity took a swing at MMA and specifically MMA for kids on Sunday.

http://www.foxnews.com/hannitysamerica/

Couldent find a more specific link.

:eek:

GeneChing

04-08-2008, 10:23 AM

I'm finding this to be a really fascinating story now.

Parent reacts to proposed fighting ban (http://www.carthagepress.com/news/x2084320851)
By John Hacker
Carthage Press
Mon Apr 07, 2008, 11:41 AM CDT
CARTHAGE, Mo. -

Two local lawmakers have proposed banning mixed martial arts fighting, but a Carthage parent says those lawmakers are overreacting.

State Reps. Steve Hunter, representing Carthage and northwest Jasper County, and Bryan Stephenson, representing Webb City and Joplin, introduced House Bill 2518 on March 31. The bill would change the rules regarding boxing and wrestling to ban mixed martial arts fighting, sometimes known as “cage fighting” by children under 18 years old.

Carthage parent Larry Swinehart, has two boys and a girl who participate in the Garage Boys Fight Crew, a mixed martial arts cage-fighting club that meets just east of Carthage.

A recent news article by the Associated Press gained national and even international attention for the Garage Boys Fight Crew, but it also brought controversy when doctors said some of the moves used in cage fighting are dangerous to young people. Swinehart said the AP article portrayed their group inaccurately.

“You guys came and did an article on us, the Joplin Globe came and did an article about us, no one had a problem until the reporter came from the Associated Press and submitted an article to the ‘Washington Post’ and put a very, very liberal skew on it and actually lied throughout the biggest part of it,” Swinehart said. “We were portrayed as monsters and participating in barbaric acts. That was my biggest problem, if they had simply told the story as it truly existed, it would have been no news, it would have ended with the articles in the Press and the Globe.”

Hunter introduced the bill with Stephenson as a co-sponsor.

Stephenson said he would like to hear from the Swineharts and others involved in the local group, he’s concerned about children being placed in unsafe situations. He said doctors have told him that some of the holds in mixed martial arts fighting can cause permanent damage to young joints.

“I’d be happy to meet with them,” Stephenson said. “I want to learn how they’re conducting the sport, I want to make sure that the division of children’s services is convinced that this is not child abuse and I want to make sure that there are proper regulations and safety precautions. I want to make sure that the holds and the moves that the young people are using are not long-term damaging. I’m reviewing news articles from all over the country about this issue. This is an issue in 22 jurisdictions across the country and I’m reading some very disturbing reports about things that are going on. For example, we have a report of an event that happened in Omaha, Neb. where a young man was kicked in the face and passed out standing up, and the referee did not stop the fight. I’ve read of another instance where a young man was on the mat and was pummeled to the point where his face was bloody and he was still staggering and unable to walk properly several minutes after the fight.”

Hunter said he shares Stephenson’s concerns.

“You watch this cage fighting on television, and that to me has gone way over the edge,” Hunter said. “If we’ve got some over-exuberent parents putting their kids in that kind of situation, and there are some, you could really cause some problems for some one who sticks their kid in there who is not as exuberant.

“I am not a person who just jumps into something to try to get the state power. I think the state and federal governments have enough power anyway.”

Swinehart said the children wear the same protective head-, hand- and groin- protection as boxers and referees watch every match.

“What they’re seeing is the adult cage fighting from the early 80s where it was true bare knuckles and they’re punching people in the head when they’re down, which is forbidden in martial arts and they’re using elbows, which is forbidden,” Swinehart said. “They don’t today wear head protection in the adult league, but it’s required for youth. The children wear the same headgear they use in boxing.”

Swinehart said he fears driving the sport underground where there would be no safety regulation.

“There needs to be a governing board to oversee it,” Swinehart said. “There needs to be a commission, otherwise what will happen, and my biggest fear is, and my kids won’t participate because I’ve sworn to uphold the law, but my biggest fear is that lesser people will do what was done years ago when fight were held in basements and farms out back and things of that nature. They won’t have the doctors’ physicals before the fights, there won’t be paramedics on scene, there won’t be professional referees there to over see it. It will simply be people who have no training in it and people will get hurt doing it. That’s my biggest fear.”

Both Stephenson and Hunter said they would be open to creating a sanctioning board for the sport as long as doctors say the sport itself is not dangerous.

“My intent is not to ban it,” Hunter said. “My intent is to make sure that it is properly sanctioned.”

Note: The Carthage School District and the Carthage Youth Wrestling Club are in no way connected with the Garage Boys Fight Crew and mixed martial arts. Larry Swinehart said some people have come to believe that the city or the school district are sponsoring the group, but that’s not true.

“The school district and the wrestling clubs have nothing to do with this group,” Swinehart said. “They have nothing to do with it, no practices have ever been held at the wrestling building.”

GeneChing

04-21-2008, 09:47 AM

Looks like this is an issue across the pond too.

Child kick boxing slammed (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1065675.ece)
By Staff reporter
Published: 20 Apr 2008

A VETERAN martial arts teacher has criticised a craze for children as young as five to fight each other in kick boxing clubs.

Mark Lutman, a martial arts teacher with 30 years experience, said some forms of the sport were not suitable for children.

He said: “Some martial arts lend themselves to children participating and some don’t.

“I started out aged seven or eight doing judo which has that rough and tumble appeal to kids and obviously is done on mats.

“The danger in children participating in martial arts is they don’t have the skills you need to have self-control.”

‘ They’re having a laugh. It’s fun ’

A Channel 4 documentary Strictly Baby Fight Club to be aired on Thursday shows children aged five and six fighting each other.

Lisa Flanagan, whose five-year-old daughter Miah features in the show, told the News of the World it could be upsetting to see her in the ring.

She said: “It’s about learning respect and discipline. It also keeps them fit. They’re having a laugh. It’s fun.”

Strictly Baby Fight Club will be shown on Channel 4 at 9pm on Thursday.

sanjuro_ronin

04-21-2008, 10:18 AM

It goes back to the issue of what is available and allowed right now.
If children are allowed to box then why not kick box?
If they are allowed judo and wrestling, why not submission wrestling?
If they are allowed those things, why not MMA?

The crux of the problem is that special rules and age limits are needed and as usual, some over zelous fool seeing an opportunity to make a buck decided to go out and do it without thinking it through and voila, instant baby fight club.

How many people would have issues with MMA if it was NOT in a cage, the kids were all over 10 (for example), no GnP and no chokes or leg locks?
basically all they could do is kick, punch with gloves and head gear and chest gear perhaps, and they could throw and take down ( no slams) and they could pin and do limited locks?

I think that very few people woudl have issues with kids doing MMA if it was done correctly from the very beginning.

LoneTiger108

04-25-2008, 02:15 AM

http://www.channel4.com/video/strictly-baby-fight-club/series-1/episode-1/parental-guidance_p_1.html

What are your views?

This has caused uproar in the UK media, as it was broadcast last night on Channel 4.

It just reminded me of some of the banter I've read in these forums, especially when we concern ourselves with fighting so much these days, and train more for competition than as a 'way of life'.

Would you put your five year old in the ring in Thailand??

GeneChing

04-25-2008, 09:21 AM

I posted something on this on our little kids doing mma thread (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=855557&postcount=50). Sounds pretty sensational.

Strictly Baby Fight Club (Cutting Edge, Channel 4) was about Thai boxing for children, an extreme martial art increasingly popular among parents. (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/tv/2008/04/last_nights_tv_eastenders_the.html)

Sohan's father, a fork-lift driver, put it most poignantly. His son is nine. "My dream is for Sohan to become the world champion. I always wanted people to look at me and say, 'There's the champ!' but it's as good as. I've never had the opportunity to become a superstar, but my son has. Sohan's living the life I should have lived. It's so real for me. When he's punching,
I'm punching. When he gets hurt, I'm hurt. The clouds are going to open and the gods will be looking down on a champ." Sohan lost.

Five-year-old Miah was sobbing as she was put in the boxing ring. "Aaah!" said the audience, charmed. Her father, Darren, trains her. Her mother, Lisa (or "nail technician, Lisa" as the commentary put it), makes up her face. "We've not to cry, have we?" she said, brushing on the blusher. "Otherwise what comes off? Your sparkle comes off." Miah wept sparkling tears. "Come on, princess, kick 'er!" yelled Darren, while Lisa filmed the fight. Miah lost, too.

The parents, shrieking from the sidelines, were fearless. I used to have a news editor like that. "Go back in there," he'd say, "and tell them they can't frighten me!"

Well done, Thai boxing looks like fleas fighting. The children's skinny limbs cartwheel as they whirl. Connor and Thai (destined for the sport from the font) were 10-year-old veterans with shelves full of trophy glitter. They fought in a cage for the Junior British Cage Thai Box Title. Connor wore a helmet; Thai didn't. There was some parental acrimony about who had kicked whom in the head. Connor's pencil-thin hips could hardly support the massive belt he won. His mother had signed a waiver not to sue if he died.

This was a powerful piece from Kirsty Cunningham. The proud parents did not see it coming up from the floor. Anyone can fail to see a kick coming. That's the point.

sanjuro_ronin

04-25-2008, 09:41 AM

Parents living their failed dreams through their kids is beyond disgusting.

TaichiMantis

07-25-2008, 10:39 AM

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3497233

How young is too young? How much contact, when? What attitude toward physical violence is being formed? What do you think?:eek:

sanjuro_ronin

07-25-2008, 11:15 AM

I say:
No contact training before 10 and no competition before 13 ( full contact).

MasterKiller

07-25-2008, 11:16 AM

sanjuro_ronin

07-25-2008, 11:19 AM

He's obviously never seen a lacroose or hockey game

sanjuro_ronin

07-25-2008, 11:29 AM

You know, if MMA got a "decent" rep for the sport, we wouldn't have any of this crap at all.
Get some good looking, articulate guy that isn't covered with tattoos and looks like his face was put in a meat grinder or likes being portrayed as a thug and you would see a total change in public perception.

MasterKiller

07-25-2008, 01:05 PM

sanjuro_ronin

07-25-2008, 01:16 PM

You would also alienate 70% of the market demographic buying pay-per-view events.

Well, what does THAT say about MMA?
:eek:

Vash

07-25-2008, 04:22 PM

Does kid's boxing still use headgear?

Also, how safe is it to have some kid with little developed control hitting another kid full-force and throwing some dangerous submissions in a high-pressure environ?

And yes, I'm one of those guys who disapproves of full-contact kid-sports.

Hell, give 'em a technique, a kata, and a fancy "uniform" and have them develop the proper attributes of a dedicated LARPer.

Kevin Huang

08-21-2008, 08:53 AM

In the old days, it was normal for kids to ride their bikes and get banged up.

Kids would climb trees and fall far distances if they weren't careful. They'd wrestle each other, beat each other up, and make up afterwards. And yet these kids turned out totally normal as adults - many of them post on this forum!

Today, I hear of kids not being allowed to run at school because the schools fear lawsuits if the kids fall and injure themselves. I hear of kids being unable to go outside to play because it's too dangerous. Forget play wrestling - that could result in parents suing other parents.

Yet I know several kids who are playing competitive youth league football 7 days a week. That's a harder schedule than the NFL! Cheerleading is a very high risk pursuit that has resulted in severe injury for some, yet it's not banned. Kids are injuring themselves playing all sorts of sports, and those sports aren't banned.

I think it's part of being a kid to test one's physical limits under appropriate circumstances.

GeneChing

08-26-2008, 10:10 AM

little buddies indeed. that's just too skipper/gilligan for me.

Youngest 'ultimate' fighters (http://www.dailylocal.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20091075&BRD=1671&PAG=461&dept_id=635533&rfi=6)
By MARCUS KABEL
08/26/2008

Ultimate fighting was once the sole domain of burly men who beat each other bloody in anything-goes brawls.
But the mixed martial art sport often derided as "human ****fighting" is branching out.
The bare-knuckle fights are now attracting competitors as young as 6 whose parents treat the sport as casually as wrestling or soccer.
The changes were evident on a recent evening in Carthage, Mo., where a team of several young boys and one girl grappled on gym mats in a converted garage.
Two members of the group called the "Garage Boys Fight Crew" touched their thin martial-arts gloves in a flash of sportsmanship before beginning a relentless exchange of sucker punches, body blows and swift kicks.
No blood was shed. And both competitors wore protective gear. But the bout reflected the decidedly younger face of ultimate fighting. The trend alarms medical experts and sports officials who worry that young bodies cannot withstand the pounding.
Tommy Bloomer, father of two of the "Garage Boys," does not understand the fuss.
"We're not training them for dog fighting," said Bloomer, a 34-year-old construction contractor. "As a parent, I'd much rather have my kids here learning how to defend themselves and getting positive reinforcement than out on the streets."
Bloomer said the sport has evolved since the no-holds-barred days by adding weight classes to better match opponents and banning moves such as strikes to the back of the neck and head, groin kicking and head butting.
Missouri appears to be the only state in the nation that explicitly allows the youth fights. In many states, it is a misdemeanor for children to participate. A few states have no regulations.
Supporters of the sport acknowledge that allowing fights between kids sounds brutal at first. But they insist the competitions have plenty of safety rules.
"It looks violent until you realize this teaches discipline. One of the first rules they learn is that this is not for aggressive behavior outside (the ring)," said Larry Swinehart, a Joplin police officer and father of two boys and the lone girl in the garage group.
The sport, which is also known as cage fighting, has already spread far beyond cable television. Earlier this year, CBS became the first of the Big Four U.S. television networks to announce a deal to broadcast primetime fights. The fights have attracted such a wide audience, they are threatening to surpass boxing as America's most popular pugilistic sport.
Hand-to-hand combat is alBloomer said the fights are no more dangerous or violent than youth wrestling. He watched as his sons, 11-year-old Skyler and 8-year-old Gage, locked arms and legs and wrestled to the ground with other kids in the garage in Carthage, about 135 miles south of Kansas City.
The 11 boys and one girl on the team range from 6 to 14 years old and are trained by Rudy Lindsey, a youth wrestling coach and a professional mixed martial arts heavyweight.
"The kids learn respect and how to defend themselves. It's no more dangerous than any other sport and probably less so than some," Lindsey said.
Lindsey said the children wear protective headgear, shin guards, groin protection and martial-arts gloves. They fight quick, two-minute bouts. Rules also prohibit any elbow blows and blows to the head when an opponent is on the ground.
In most states, mixed martial arts is overseen by boxing commissions. In Missouri, the Office of Athletics regulates the professional fights but not the amateur events, which include the youth bouts. For amateurs, the regulation is done by sanctioning bodies that have to register with the athletics office.
The rules are different in Oklahoma, where unauthorized fights are generally a misdemeanor offense. The penalty is a maximum 30 days in jail and a fine up to $1,000.
Joe Miller, administrator of the Oklahoma Professional Boxing Commission, said youth fights are banned in his state, and he wants it to stay that way.
"There's too much potential for damage to growing joints," he said.
Miller said mixed martial arts uses a lot of arm and leg twisting to force opponents into submission. Those moves, he said, pressure joints in a way not found in sanctioned sports like youth boxing or wrestling.
Back in the Missouri garage, Bloomer said parents should not worry about kids becoming aggressive from learning mixed martial arts. He said his older son was picked on by bullies at school repeatedly last year but never fought them, instead reporting the problem to his teachers.
And fighters including his 8-year-old son get along once a bout is over, Bloomer said.
"When they get out of the cage, they go back and play video games together. It doesn't matter who won and who lost. They're still little buddies."

Water Dragon

08-26-2008, 04:40 PM

I don't agree with the idea of kids doing MMA for a couple reasons. I started my youngest in Judo at 4, but they cannot do chokes until 13 or subs until 17 in a Judo contest. I'm starting to teach my oldest Muay Thai at 12, and don' really want him sparring until 14. His brain still isnt developed fully at 12, and I'm not taking the chance. That's my job, I'm his Father. The fights in that video looked basically like they lifted adult rules and applied them to the kiddos. If that's the case, that's just plain wrong AND dumb.

The other reason is I'm a big believer that if you start with a solid base and then do MMA, you'll be a better fighter. It's better to be a Jack of all trades, master of one than Jack of all trades, master of none.

GreenCloudCLF

08-29-2008, 05:35 AM

Survival of the fittest. 8 year olds should fight to the death in the circle of fire!

SimonM

08-29-2008, 09:25 AM

Against rabid dire wolves... and certified baby eating dingoes.

GreenCloudCLF

08-29-2008, 10:48 AM

Against rabid dire wolves... and certified baby eating dingoes.

I just rewatched 300 last night. That's how all children should be raised.

BTW, best line in the movie: "That's because only Spartan women give birth to REAL men."

JGTevo

08-29-2008, 11:59 AM

I've been getting into fights since I was 7. Especially when I was that age I would go looking everywhere for fights and this is what I personally learned: The impact of punches and kicks from kids my age(martial artists and non martial artists alike) and even kids who were as big as two to three years older and outweighing me by at least 40 pounds - Is nowhere near as damaging as an adults strikes against another adult. With a few exceptions, kids simply do not have the muscle, body structure, or the ability to comprehend how to properly strike to do serious damage to other kids their age and size.

TenTigers

09-06-2008, 06:01 AM

I had a student who in his teens, was an excellent hockey player. So good in fact, that they put him in adult league. Well, he had so many concussions that he now has seizure disorder. I have seen him have full blown epileptic seizure.
Headgear does NOT prevent concussion and neurological damage. It prevents fractures and cuts, and in open tournaments, it is required because a person once died after being KO'd and fell and hit his head on the floor.
Just because a kid wears headgear, doesn't all of a sudden, make it a safe sport.
Not fer nuthin, but many of the people who claim otherwise usually have other manifestations of dain bramage as well. Or haven't you noticed?:p

Mr Punch

09-10-2008, 10:14 PM

Personally, I don't think kids should train until they are 11 or 12, at least. But the argument he makes against MMA could also be used against wrestling, TKD, and boxing, which no one ever seems to have a problem with.I don't see any problem with kids as young as 5 or 6 starting the grappling arts. We see countless examples of BJJers, judoka and aikidoka at those ages growing into strong and safe fighters. Any art that involves anywhere near full contact to the head, protected or not, is out though in my book. I read somewhere that the brain is still growing and fitting the skull up to 14 years old.

Of course, if they want to do boxing (for example) there's no reason why they shouldn't start with shadow boxing, drills, pads, and heavy bags... and maybe even body shots.

GeneChing

11-18-2008, 11:38 AM

14-18 seems fine to me.

Mixed Martial Arts Makes Its Way to High School (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/18/sports/othersports/18mma.html?_r=1&hp)
Jodi Hilton for The New York Times

By JUSTIN PORTER
Published: November 17, 2008

Marcelo Siqueira, left, is a world-class competitor in martial arts who has been a guest instructor for Winchester High School's mixed martial arts club.

Just another meeting of the Winchester High mixed martial arts club, which may be the only of its kind in the country.

It began as the brainchild of In-Goo Kwak, a senior at Winchester who began campaigning for the program when he was a freshman. A student of martial arts since age 8, he wanted to create an outlet for students who were not interested in traditional sports.

Now housed in the school’s wrestling room, the club has nearly two dozen participants, ages 14-18.

At a class last month, Kwak arranged for a guest instructor, Marcelo Siqueira, someone who planned to make regular appearances. Siqueira runs a martial arts center in nearby Somerville and was a national karate champion in Brazil. He has a black belt in Brazilian jujitsu and studied at the famous Chute Boxe mixed martial arts academy in Curitiba, Brazil.

Siqueira was here to help Kwak, one of his students, and also to scout for potential talent. Siqueira manages a few professional fighters. He understands all too well the sport’s violent reputation, having fought in Brazil’s Vale Tudo arenas, the home of the no-holds-barred, bare-knuckle matches that gave birth to mixed martial arts.

“A lot of people think it’s too aggressive or violent,” Siqueira said of the sport of mixed martial arts. “But after a while, they see a different perspective.”

He added that the club offered an opportunity to pour out aggression in a safe environment designed for it. He spoke passionately about the self-discipline required to be a fighter.

Mixed martial arts was illegal in nearly every state in the country in the early 1990s, but is legal in most states now. The sport outgrosses professional boxing in pay-per-view revenue. It is now an arena for serious athletes. To succeed, a fighter must acquire the skills of four separate combat sports — boxing, wrestling, kick-boxing and submission grappling — and combine them.

Kwak lobbied for the program for two years before it began in 2006. When school administrators saw his commitment and professionalism — he pursued everything from correct safety measures to financing — they supported the club.

The school’s only concern was that the students were not actually hitting each other. They practice kicks and punches to pads, but do not kick or punch with one another. The club has not had a serious injury in the two years it has been active.

Brian Carroll, the athletic director at Winchester High, said he was thrilled with the program’s success, in particular mentioning the students’ dedication.

“They worked extremely hard,” he said. “They’re dedicated. So any way we can support them, we’re going to.”

Kwak said one of his goals with the program was to offer something to students who were not “the jocks who dominate the sports.”

Alex Woudard, a freshman, said he did not like sports like baseball or football because they were too slow.

“I started a few weeks ago because I watch this stuff on TV and I wanted to do it for real,” he said.

In the beginning, the club met once a week, with about five students. Kwak has done all of the organizing for the club, including fund-raising. Last winter, he went to business after business in town, asking for donations. In exchange, he offered to use the companies’ logos and mention them as sponsors in the club’s introductory brochure.

But beyond that, he did not have much to offer. That, coupled with his age, got him turned away frequently. Of about 100 businesses, 10 donated money. But Kwak slowly began to receive support.

Tom Defranzo Martial Arts, a local tae kwon do school, donated equipment. Kwak has developed a list of guest instructors like Siqueira. Robert Flint, a graduate of Winchester High who is a martial artist, donates his time several days a week.

“I thought it was a joke the first time I heard about it,” Flint said.

Kwak, who plans to stay involved with the club after he graduates, said his goal was for his group to compete with other clubs. He has reached out to Boston University’s mixed martial arts program to try to organize a meet.

The potential is there. Wrestling, vital to a complete game in mixed martial arts, is a sport in which Winchester High excels. Its wrestling team has gone 60-0 in the past two seasons.

And that means the so-called jocks have a place in the program, too. Brendan Cleary, a three-year member of the wrestling team, was one of the first students to sign up for the club and helps out with instructing.

In Siqueira’s class last month, he explained the process of training in mixed martial arts to the students circled around him.

“You don’t teach M.M.A., you teach the pieces,” he said.

He said the sport required skill in boxing, wrestling, submissions and kicking. He then taught a basic wrestling move, the shoot, but with a twist. He begins the technique with a punch to occupy the opponent’s hands.

At the end of the lesson, the students lined up and one at a time sparred with him. For the students, it was an opportunity to battle a world-class athlete.

“That’s perfect, there’s nothing you can do,” one student said in frustration as he sparred with Siqueira. From somewhere among the group of students watching came this response from Flint: “Could have something to do with him being a world champion.”

sanjuro_ronin

11-18-2008, 12:05 PM

To succeed, a fighter must acquire the skills of four separate combat sports — boxing, wrestling, kick-boxing and submission grappling — and combine them.

best description of MMA.

At the end of the lesson, the students lined up and one at a time sparred with him. For the students, it was an opportunity to battle a world-class athlete.

“That’s perfect, there’s nothing you can do,” one student said in frustration as he sparred with Siqueira. From somewhere among the group of students watching came this response from Flint: “Could have something to do with him being a world champion.”

what itd all about, right there.

TenTigers

11-19-2008, 08:11 AM

I liked this as well;

“You don’t teach M.M.A., you teach the pieces,”

GeneChing

11-19-2008, 10:36 AM

This reiterates my post above - the NYT article is significant because of the tone and platform.

New York Times Article Marks a Big Step Forward for MMA Coverage (http://www.nbcbayarea.com/sports/basketball/High-School-MMA-and-Another-Step-Toward-Mainstream-Acceptance.html)
By Michael David Smith
Updated 2:13 PM PST, Tue, Nov 18, 2008

Mixed martial arts has gone far beyond the Ultimate Fighting Championship and is now found in high schools.

We've just witnessed a watershed moment for mixed martial arts, one that signals a major step toward mainstream acceptance as a legitimate sport.

I'm not talking about Brock Lesnar becoming a media darling in the wake of his victory over Randy Couture in Saturday night's heavyweight title match. I'm talking about an article that appeared on page B15 of today's New York Times.

The article, written by Justin Porter, profiles a high school mixed martial arts club in Winchester, Massachusetts, and in the process it does something extraordinary: It doesn't pontificate. The article simply just reports the facts of a high school MMA club and treats the sport and its participants with the respect they deserve.

If that doesn't sound extraordinary to you, then you haven't read much mainstream media coverage of MMA. Usually, when mainstream outlets write about the sport, they get facts wrong, attempt to portray MMA as sheer brutality, and start with the premise that their reader will be outraged by the sport's popularity among young people.

Porter's article is an increasingly rare type of newspaper article, one that provides a slice of life about news that isn't violent or lurid. It's the kind of sports article we don't see enough of in this age when newspaper staffs are shrinking. (And when the newspapers themselves are shrinking, as evidenced by the Times getting rid of its great Play sports magazine.

Those who read Porter's article will understand the simple truth that MMA is a safe sport. The MMA as practiced at Winchester High, where the students practice their submission moves against each other but only practice their punches and kicks against against pads, is certainly safer than high school football.

The most important part of the article is the way it keeps the focus on the participants themselves: Consider the freshman who explains that he likes MMA but doesn't like baseball or football because they're too slow. Those teenagers who love the fast pace of MMA are the reason this sport is here to stay.

There's still much more that an article about youth involvement in MMA could explore. Most significantly, this article mentions only male students involved in the MMA club and doesn't even seem to consider whether girls might want to be part of it -- perhaps overlooking the way MMA is growing quickly among female fans and increasingly attracting impressive female athletes. But as a first step toward informing readers about the growth of MMA among young people, the Times' article was impressive.

GeneChing

11-25-2008, 10:19 AM

Cage fighting obsession reaches kids (http://kob.com/article/stories/S677600.shtml?cat=500)

Cage-fighting is all the rage, and like any popular sport, there are millions of kids who want to grow up to be like the stars they idolize. Now, doctors are wondering how young is too young to start training.

Robert Gonzalez's dad supports his nine-year-old son's dream and now he's helping him get there.

Every week, Nick Gonzalez trains kids six-years-old and older to grapple and kickbox at Jackson Gaidojutsu, one of the premier mixed martial arts schools in the country.

The gym is home to some of the best cage fighters in the world.

"We used to watch the UFC shows together and we always did it as a family thing and I figured if we could grow closer as a family and do something that we both love, we can go home and practice together, we can go home and practice together, that helps build a bond between me and my son," Gonzalez said.

Although cage fighting for anyone under the age of 18-years-old is against the law, what Gonzalez teaches both boys and girls is perfectly legal.

Cage fighting or mixed martial arts is basically a combination of two things, kickboxing and grappling.

Kids are not allowed to compete using both forms of fighting, but they can train for each individually.

The grappling class focuses on cage fighting fundamentals, chokes, armbars, leg-locks and other moves designed to make an opponent tap-out.

Some doctors have said that submission moves at such a young age can cause serious damage.

"As a physician, I have a concern when it comes to wrestling and grappling sort of sports, especially ones in which the children's joints are being pulled in different directions" said Dr. John Ogren of Presbyterian Urgent Care.

Parents at Jackson's say they are aware of the risks, but they support the sport and their kids, even if they want to grow up and get in the cage.

"I'd love him to be a doctor, but I'll support him in what he does," said Gonzalez said.

While many doctors discourage combat sports like grappling and kickboxing before puberty, most say they have seen more injuries from football and cheerleading.

Jackson's gym stands by its clean record and says no kid at the gym has been seriously injured.
TaichiMantis, I'm abbreviating this thread title from "ESPN's Outside the Lines Debates Kids and MMA" to "Kids and MMA" because I feel its evolved to something more expansive. I may merge it with the other kids MMA thread some day too, someday when I'm feeling particular anal about the archives.

TaichiMantis

11-28-2008, 06:48 PM

TaichiMantis, I'm abbreviating this thread title from "ESPN's Outside the Lines Debates Kids and MMA" to "Kids and MMA" because I feel its evolved to something more expansive. I may merge it with the other kids MMA thread some day too, someday when I'm feeling particular anal about the archives.

Carry on sir!;)

TenTigers

11-30-2008, 07:14 AM

"While many doctors discourage combat sports like grappling and kickboxing before puberty, most say they have seen more injuries from football and cheerleading."

probably because of the numbers. There are a lot more football players and cheerleaders than there are kids doing MMA. "Most say," is not an accurate
definable statistic.

TenTigers

11-30-2008, 07:15 AM

GeneChing

12-01-2008, 11:08 AM

Gentle. Yeah right. I wouldn't even say that about good Chen Taiji...unless I was talking to the press. ;)

Kids mixing it up (http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20081128/SPORTS/811280343/1002/SPORTS)
Viera High sop****re wrestler trains for MMA career
BY BRIAN McCALLUM • FLORIDA TODAY • November 28, 2008

Dex Hicks arrived at the gym later than the rest of his group. He had a weigh-in for his Viera High wrestling team on this afternoon, and training for mixed martial arts had to wait. Hicks, 15, is a sop****re 140-pounder in his first year of wrestling, but his martial arts training is already deep in his psyche.

Eventually he wants it deep in his pocketbook.

"I want to go pro, definitely want to go pro," Hicks said. "That's why I'm glad I started at such a young age. Legally, I have to be 18 to fight, but as soon as I turn 18 . . ."

Hicks trains at Spartan MMA under James Wynn, himself a mixed martial arts professional who is realizing his dream of teaching others. Wynn hopes and believes that, as the sport of MMA continues to grow, it will attract younger students.

Others in Brevard County have had professional bouts -- Danny Bab**** of Palm Bay recently won the middleweight championship of the Real Fighting Championships in Tampa -- but MMA's newness means its fighters have come from other beginnings. This young Viera student could be the first example of someone local entering the sport at a young age and growing into the pro ranks.

The rest of Hicks' training group, by the way, is his mom and, usually, his younger brother. Martial arts is a family affair.

Sabrina Hicks competed in jiu jitsu in Colorado years ago, and Dex took up that sport at age 10. Mom had been influenced by her own father's pursuit of karate, and she is now thrilled to see her own sons in the gym.

"I like it," she said. "It's better than sitting at home playing video games or being out on the streets."

Certified athletic trainer Kris Klein said he has no extra health or safety concerns for martial arts training, compared to any other sport, when there is professional supervision and proper equipment.

"I don't see any problem with that as long as it's not a backyard brawl," he said. "You're not going to keep wrestling types out of it. It's sport, and they're doing some kind of activity."

Dex's aggression is exorcised in the gym rather than at home with his brother. Sabrina doesn't see any problems and doesn't think MMA training encourages it.

"I can see how some parents can think they'll be aggressive, but I think it's more about discipline. It keeps them out of trouble."

In reality, most of Wynn's students, including two or three others of high school age, are training simply to develop self-defense skills. Spectators looking for strikes to the face and the bloody results would be disappointed with a typical session. Any sparring includes headgear, and most of what goes on resembles a standard martial arts classe in substance.

"Everything here is gentle," Dex said. "Nobody ever gets hurt unless it's a little bruise or something."

Holds are released with the slightest tap, and most of the activity is repetition, just as would be seen at any athletic practice.

"It's probably the safest way to learn self-defense, and it's the most practical way," Wynn said. "There's training in ground work, there's standing, as opposed to karate, and others where they just focus on one style of martial arts."

Wynn compared it to the training he experienced in the Marines.

"We just didn't call it MMA," he said.

MMA matches are a hot topic among Dex's teammates after headline bouts, but he can count on one hand the number of fellow students who know he trains in the sport. One coach contacted by FLORIDA TODAY was open to high school wrestlers with a martial arts sidelight.

"I'd encourage it, anything you can learn," coach Billy Bechtol of Eau Gallie wrestling said. "More martial arts helps."

Eau Gallie doesn't have any current wrestlers pursuing the sport, according to Bechtol, but he does know former Commodores wrestler Randall Webb is fighting in the Orlando area.

That's how Bab**** progressed. He wrestled at Palm Bay and found MMA as an outlet for his abilities, long after graduation.

Wynn said that's where the attraction lies for wrestlers of any age.

"Back in the day, there was nothing for the wrestler to do (after school)," he said. "There is no collegiate wrestling in the state of Florida. Now, the wrestler can have a goal. They can take their wrestling and put it into mixed martial arts."

Perhaps the most high-profile wrestler-turned MMA champ is Brock Lesnar. The 2000 NCAA wrestling national champion, while at the University of Minnesota, just won the UFC Heavyweight Championship by beating Randy Couture on Nov. 15.

Eventually, those like Dex can take their MMA and use it as a background for wrestling. And beyond.

For now, he is one of a few his age at the gym.

"Maybe (others) don't like it, but I don't know why you wouldn't. It's everything you could want," he said. "I love the sport. I want to make this my life."

GeneChing

12-02-2008, 10:46 AM

I may have to check in with this article later - there's a potential flame war in the comments on this piece that looks like it'll be a laugh riot. :D

Legislators will try again to ban youth cage fighting (http://www.ky3.com/news/local/35331214.html)
by Steve Grant, KY3 News
Story Updated: Dec 1, 2008 at 4:16 PM CST
By Gene Hartley

CARTHAGE, Mo. -- During the past decade, cage fighting has exploded into mainstream America. Shows featuring that sport are among the most-watched shows on cable television. In southwest Missouri, even children are into the action, which is why some state lawmakers want it stopped.

The fights are fierce. Grown men unleash a mixture of martial arts in a cage.

"Now for people to compete, there are competitions going on every weekend. It has grown that drastically that quickly,” said Rudy Lindsey, a mixed martial arts trainer and fight promoter.

They’re fueled by brutal brawls featured in leagues like the Ultimate Fighting Championship on television.

"I like all contact sports. I like to be in there,” said one fighter.

The once underground sport is breeding a new generation of fighters. Boys, and even a couple of girls, ages 6 to 16, compete in mixed martial arts.

"They think we're just out there putting each other down and fighting -- ****fighting -- but it's nowhere close to that,” said Hayden Swinehart, 10.

Hayden, along with his sister and older brother, are honor roll students. They're also cage fighters. Each has competed in youth mixed martial arts for three years.

"Most people ask me what's it's done for you. I tell them self-respect. They think that's silly,” said another fighter.

Children wear protective gear. A referee, doctor and coaches can stop the match at any time. But, like their adult counterparts, the children fight in a cage.

"We set up the rules so that there was not going to be an injury,” said Lindsey.

Lindsey began competing in MMA six years ago. After interest in MMA swelled among young wrestlers in Carthage, Lindsey started the Garage Boys Fight Crew.

"People ask, ‘How can you compare this to football and baseball?’ Football is a full contact sport; so is mixed martial arts. There are more injures in baseball than mixed martial arts,” said Lindsey.

"When the goal of a sport is to choke your opponent into submission so they can tap out, I have a problem with that,” said Dr. Scott Dattel of Kansas City Pediatrics.

Dattel concedes all contact sports carry a risk of injury. But he warns youth that MMA can promote aggressive behavior and cause damage.

It appears Missouri is the only state to allow sanctioned youth cage fighting. It's a misdemeanor in many states.

In April, some state legislators introduced a bill to ban youth cage fighting in Missouri. The bill didn’t pass.

"Most of the people who are making laws and accusations don't really understand the sport and aren’t taking the time to truly understand the sport,” said Lindsey.

The Garage Boys Fight Crew is about to open for another season. It appears, however, the biggest battle facing these aspiring UFC stars will be fought in the state capital instead of a cage.

"I hope they will let us do it again. It will get us ready if we go pro,” said Hayden.

Lawmakers say a committee hearing on the re-filed bill could come as early as January. Some fans say trying to ban the growing sport will only force it underground.

GeneChing

10-29-2010, 10:17 AM

I'm just trying to imagine the parents. Do they know what they're getting their kids into nowadays?

Martial arts rule change a danger to kids: coach (http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/Martial+arts+rule+change+danger+kids+coach/3743598/story.html)
Tracy Sherlock, Postmedia News · Friday, Oct. 29, 2010

A veteran mixed martial arts coach says he had to stop several children from being held down and punched in the head at a recent tournament, after new rules were introduced allowing youngsters to engage in "ground and pound."

Organizers of a tournament last weekend in Burnaby, B.C., included a new division that allowed children to be hit in the head once they are on the ground, despite rules prohibiting that level of violence. Competitors wear protective headgear.

Previously, hits to the head were permitted only when children were on their feet.

Children are at risk of concussions and other injuries if punching to the face is allowed once they are down, said Chris Franco, owner of Vancouver's Franco Kickboxing-Pankration gym.

"There was one child who is 95 pounds competing against another child who was 150 pounds," Mr. Franco said. "They were both 12 years old, but I stopped the match because I thought the (smaller) boy might be snapped in half.

"One of my students, who is a seven-year-old girl, had a bigger boy on her in what is called a mount position. The referee wasn't stopping it and the boy just kept hitting her in the head."

Mr. Franco, who has coached martial arts for more than 20 years, said he stopped the fight before the girl was hurt because he believed there was potential for severe injury.

However, Don Whitefield, who organized the new MMA division and is an MMA coach, said that the new rules were "better and safer."

"In the past during this tournament ... there always was lots of blood on the mat and it was not safe," Mr. Whitefield said in an email.

"The only problem I can think of was that some poor-fitting head gear (could slip) and impair the vision when clinching and grappling, since some parents hope their kids ... grow into the gear rather than buying properly fit gear."

Joe Ferraro, host of MMA Connected on Rogers Sportsnet, said only professional adult MMA fighters should use the "ground and pound" technique.

"I personally don't condone children grounding and pounding each other in tournaments," Mr. Ferraro told the Vancouver Sun.

"That's something that has to be taught and learned, and your body has to get conditioned to that. You don't throw somebody learning how to play hockey straight into a body-checking system. They have to learn how to skate first."

Parents sign waivers on behalf of their children to enter tournaments.

Jason Gagnon, who was a referee at the tournament and is an instructor with Mr. Whitefield at West Coast Jiu-Jitsu, said "the most important thing to us as coaches is that the kids are safe. We are very aware that these are not professional athletes, and want to make sure we can run the most successfully safe and fun tournaments for the participants."

Opponents point out, however, that while headgear offers protection in a standing fight, it's impossible for a competitor to "duck and weave" when being held on the ground, which increases the potential for damage.

Lucas

10-29-2010, 10:40 AM

if parents want to let their kids get gnp, they should have to experience it themselves first. just like cops and tazers.

TenTigers

11-08-2010, 12:12 PM

let's see how eager they are to include GnP once the first liability suits start rolling in.
all it's going to take is just one injury and lawsuit making it into the headlines.

GeneChing

11-08-2010, 03:50 PM

GeneChing

11-12-2010, 10:34 AM

Children as young as 3 enrolling in mixed martial arts (MMA) classes
Published On Thu Nov 11 2010

http://media.thestar.topscms.com/images/35/6e/8ed9a5a5495d9f2bdb6669b47944.jpeg
Holding his ears, Nathan moves across the mat at Revolution Gym on Lesmill Road has a mixed martial arts training class for kids age 3-5 ("Munchkins MMA").

STEVE RUSSELL/TORONTO STAR
Alex Horkay Staff Reporter

It’s 5 p.m. and a dozen children have hit the mat at a Toronto club, training to be fierce combatants in one of the most brutal sports around — mixed martial arts.

But nobody’s getting their head jammed through the floor. To Tally Bodenstein-Kales, a child psychologist watching her 8-year-old son, Noah, learn the sport, it’s all good.

“What they see on TV is certainly the ugly side of the sport, the side that doesn’t appeal to many women, for sure,” she said. “But in reality when they actually go into these classes, it’s nothing like that. It’s very gentle and very elegant.

“And I think it’s been really good for his self-esteem,” she added.

Mixed martial arts are exploding in popularity due to ferocious Ultimate Fighting Championship bouts shown on pay-per-view TV. The McGuinty government’s decision in August to allow professional MMA fights in Ontario is also fuelling their popularity.

“And wait till it happens next year that there’s an event. Just wait. That’s going to be huge. We haven’t seen anything yet,” said Joel Gerson, president of Revolution MMA, which operates clubs in North York and Thornhill.

But gentle? Elegant? Mixed martial arts?

“The kids’ MMA that we do is very controlled. There’s very little contact to the face and to the head. It’s much more focused on the art and the self-discipline and the confidence,” said Gerson, whose club offers courses for children as young as 3.

“It’s not always about making the other kid tap out and squeegeeing blood off the mat.”

Joey de Los Reyes, an owner of the Kombat Arts Training Academy in Mississauga, agrees. “We really pride ourselves in teaching kids the other aspects of martial arts, things like discipline, focus being civil to people, humility, all that kind of stuff.”

Meanwhile, most adults interested in MMA are there for the fitness aspects.

“The reason is that people see these fighters and they’re in the best shape of any athlete,” Gerson said. “The fitness systems that these MMA athletes are using will get you in the best shape the fastest.

“I can come... not get punched in the face … and get in great shape and I’m not stuck on a treadmill staring at red dots for 45 minutes watching Seinfeld.”

People who want serious MMA training need to be careful because now a lot of fitness gyms and karate schools are offering MMA-type classes, Gerson warned.

“There’s probably just a handful of clubs that have the coaching, facilities and bodies enough to get someone to a level where they can be competitive and it’s not going to be your mom-and-pop karate shop.

“And the big thing is the safety,” he said. “You just can’t get just anybody (as an instructor) in there.”

Training for MMA can also be costly. Not much equipment is needed, but the lessons are very specialized, Gerson said.

“You’re looking at between $1,000 and $2,000 for your kid for a year typically.”

It’s worth it for Bodenstein-Kales. Her son gets exercise and help with listening through MMA classes.

“It helps him with his memory as well because he has to remember these certain moves that he’s doing. So it’s been great on many fronts,” she said.
“It’s not always about making the other kid tap out and squeegeeing blood off the mat.” Not always? That implies sometimes it is about this? :rolleyes:

taai gihk yahn

11-12-2010, 05:10 PM

There's nothing like that sound when someone GnP's someone else's head and the whole ring floor acts like a drum. I'm sure it sounds worse from the inside.

With the emerging research on chronic traumatic encephalopathy and it's ramifications for the NFL, one can't but wonder what the future holds for any sport that is concussive.

it's going to be a real sea-change, once the research starts quantifying the injuries; although the real sh1t storm will hit when the long-term health care costs get factored in...

Hitman

09-22-2011, 04:59 AM

Boys as young as five have been taking part in cage fights which condemned as child abuse by martial arts experts last night.
The youngsters, who were not wearing headgear or other padding, were film in ten minute bout at a social club in Preston (UK).

Full detail can be find on today’s metro newspaper or metro.co.uk

Five years old kids do not the time to develop their martial skills and yet they are allow to fight in a cage. If two 5 years old kids fought inside a martial arts school and seriously got hurt. The martial arts school will be in big trouble and everyone will make a big fuss about it. Some parents will sue that martial arts school. Several fighters did get kill in the early stages of UFC years ago and now they want children to fight and get hurt.

One man did reported his wife and her family to the police in UK several years ago after finding video clips showing his wife and her family encouraging his five years son to beat up his three years daughter. The beating lasted for several minutes.
For some strange reasons it is ok for 5 years old kids to fight in a cage and entertain the blood lust audience in UK. Has the world gone mad!

Ben Gash

09-22-2011, 05:35 AM

Are you a Daily Mail columnist? The kids were 8 and 9 and were competing in a grappling match at an MMA event. They were not "cagefighting".
Your statement "several fighters did get killed in the early stages of UFC" is also just plain wrong.

Iron_Eagle_76

09-22-2011, 05:36 AM

Full detail can be find on today’s metro newspaper or metro.co.uk

Five years old kids do not the time to develop their martial skills and yet they are allow to fight in a cage. If two 5 years old kids fought inside a martial arts school and seriously got hurt. The martial arts school will be in big trouble and everyone will make a big fuss about it. Some parents will sue that martial arts school. Several fighters did get kill in the early stages of UFC years ago and now they want children to fight and get hurt.

One man did reported his wife and her family to the police in UK several years ago after finding video clips showing his wife and her family encouraging his five years son to beat up his three years daughter. The beating lasted for several minutes.
For some strange reasons it is ok for 5 years old kids to fight in a cage and entertain the blood lust audience in UK. Has the world gone mad!

Your statement is flat out wrong! No fighters died in the early UFC's, count that, NONE!! While I agree with your stance on not allowing five year olds to compete in MMA, do not make up lies and drivel to try and sell your product!!;)

Dragonzbane76

09-22-2011, 05:40 AM

Better check your reference before you state things like this.

Frost

09-22-2011, 05:40 AM

Full detail can be find on today’s metro newspaper or metro.co.uk

Five years old kids do not the time to develop their martial skills and yet they are allow to fight in a cage. If two 5 years old kids fought inside a martial arts school and seriously got hurt. The martial arts school will be in big trouble and everyone will make a big fuss about it. Some parents will sue that martial arts school. Several fighters did get kill in the early stages of UFC years ago and now they want children to fight and get hurt.

One man did reported his wife and her family to the police in UK several years ago after finding video clips showing his wife and her family encouraging his five years son to beat up his three years daughter. The beating lasted for several minutes.
For some strange reasons it is ok for 5 years old kids to fight in a cage and entertain the blood lust audience in UK. Has the world gone mad!

grow up this was totally fabricated, several coaches i know are on the radio and tv at the moment pointing out the holes in this rubbish, they were grappling not doing MMA, their ages were wrong and its no different than kids doing judo.....

Dragonzbane76

09-22-2011, 05:41 AM

Or wrestling which is very common here.

Lokhopkuen

09-22-2011, 05:42 AM

I love an embellished story it's so PRC:D

Indrafist

09-22-2011, 05:57 AM

grow up this was totally fabricated, several coaches i know are on the radio and tv at the moment pointing out the holes in this rubbish, they were grappling not doing MMA, their ages were wrong and its no different than kids doing judo.....

Time will tell on that (re it being 'no different than kids doing Judo'). I sincrely hope you'll be proved right. Some Judo coaches won't let very young juniors do stuff like crossover arm bars on safety grounds, and Judo isn't a feed into a full blown combat sport with strikes, KO's etc. There is the (psychological) conditioning effect of the environment (an MMA 'cage') and the long-term effects of that on kids won't show up for a while. There's a five year old lad who lives near me who beats other kids up on a ten foot, netted trampoline, copying stuff he sees with his dad on TV. That's something different in itself, obviously, but similar enough to illustrate what could happen. He goes out of his way to hurt kids, with his versions of single and double leg takedows, guilotines, crossover arm bars, mounts, passing the guard etc. No reason all all to ban controlled grappling for kids, but social and cultural shifts always have unforseen consequences. It needs some measured consideration, and part of that will include kids welfare.

Frost

09-22-2011, 06:16 AM

Time will tell on that (re it being 'no different than kids doing Judo'). I sincrely hope you'll be proved right. Some Judo coaches won't let very young juniors do stuff like crossover arm bars on safety grounds, and Judo isn't a feed into a full blown combat sport with strikes, KO's etc. There is the (psychological) conditioning effect of the environment (an MMA 'cage') and the long-term effects of that on kids won't show up for a while. There's a five year old lad who lives near me who beats other kids up on a ten foot, netted trampoline, copying stuff he sees with his dad on TV. That's something different in itself, obviously, but similar enough to illustrate what could happen. He goes out of his way to hurt kids, with his versions of single and double leg takedows, guilotines, crossover arm bars, mounts, passing the guard etc. No reason all all to ban controlled grappling for kids, but social and cultural shifts always have unforseen consequences. It needs some measured consideration, and part of that will include kids welfare.

most grappling coaches i know dont even teach under 16s, im sure those that do will take as much care and attention as they do with their other students as for judo not being a feeding ground into combat sports, maybe not but most kids i know who started in judo moved on to karate, boxing kick boxing, same with those who played rugby as kids

Ben Gash

09-22-2011, 06:31 AM

Last time I looked, Judo was a full contact combat sport :confused:

Indrafist

09-22-2011, 06:44 AM

most grappling coaches i know dont even teach under 16s, im sure those that do will take as much care and attention as they do with their other students as for judo not being a feeding ground into combat sports, maybe not but most kids i know who started in judo moved on to karate, boxing kick boxing, same with those who played rugby as kids

My son started with Judo at 8 and then in his teens went onto Muay Thai. Good coaches, which is what a responsible parent wants. My concern in the case (mis)quoted at the beginning of this thread (and as it was reported on tv news) is the effect that the popularity of full-on combat sports will eventually have on 'some' kids - not to mention their parents. The 5 yr old I mentioned has got real issues, that in themselves. have nothing to do with MMA or cage-fighting, but, as with anything else potentially dangerous, its becoming a lens for him to express what may become violent psychopathy. A reasoned debate is worth having, as properly regulated MMA needs to be protected against unwarranted legislation and an exaggerated image. But, kids need protecting too from exploitaive adults, and from dangerous practices that could either harm them physically or affect their psycho-social development. I think it's a debate worth having, if only because martial artists, mixed or otherwise, aren't all the same. People (especially adults) bring who they are to the table, and that colours what they do probably even more than the 'art'/sport changes them. The conditioning effect on kids is another matter altogether, and that's where adults have to be responsible, and more than that, prove that they are. That proof will involve them being challenged on their safety, their beliefs and their character.

Frost

09-22-2011, 06:51 AM

My son started with Judo at 8 and then in his teens went onto Muay Thai. Good coaches, which is what a responsible parent wants. My concern in the case (mis)quoted at the beginning of this thread (and as it was reported on tv news) is the effect that the popularity of full-on combat sports will eventually have on 'some' kids - not to mention their parents. The 5 yr old I mentioned has got real issues, that in themselves. have nothing to do with MMA or cage-fighting, but, as with anything else potentially dangerous, its becoming a lens for him to express what may become violent psychopathy. A reasoned debate is worth having, as properly regulated MMA needs to be protected against unwarranted legislation and an exaggerated image. But, kids need protecting too from exploitaive adults, and from dangerous practices that could either harm them physically or affect their psycho-social development. I think it's a debate worth having, if only because martial artists, mixed or otherwise, aren't all the same. People (especially adults) bring who they are to the table, and that colours what they do probably even more than the 'art'/sport changes them. The conditioning effect on kids is another matter altogether, and that's where adults have to be responsible, and more than that, prove that they are. That proof will involve them being challenged on their safety, their beliefs and their character.

how is this any different from kids jumping off chairs to emulate the crane kick in the karate kid? or kicking each other whilst screaming like bruce lee, or for that matter hitting each other with their favourite WWE move they saw john cena doing on TV?

I would argue that grappling (be it judo, submission grappling, free style) is a much better way to express their energy than the above (or football for that matter) because through regulated competition they will learn the most valuable lesson we can all learn, humility through being beaten

hskwarrior

09-22-2011, 07:00 AM

Here's the video for this.....you make the judgement call. I didn't see any strikes so i can't personally say thats child abuse.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a3c_1316692438

Iron_Eagle_76

09-22-2011, 07:36 AM

To the poster whining about the five year old beating up other kids, here's one for you. Why don't the parents, you know, parent him!!:confused:

Why do we as human beings now feel the need to blame other sources for our own shortcomings. The five year old you speak of may have some type of medical disorder (ADD, Bi-Polar) but it also sounds like his dad is an ass***hole that does not teach the child right from wrong.

Nothing but more pure liberal garbage of blaming another source when the problem is right under the nose.

Indrafist

09-22-2011, 07:46 AM

how is this any different from kids jumping off chairs to emulate the crane kick in the karate kid? or kicking each other whilst screaming like bruce lee, or for that matter hitting each other with their favourite WWE move they saw john cena doing on TV?

I would argue that grappling (be it judo, submission grappling, free style) is a much better way to express their energy than the above (or football for that matter) because through regulated competition they will learn the most valuable lesson we can all learn, humility through being beaten

And I would agree, hence my son both did, and enjoyed Judo, and had my full support, just as he did for his Muay Thai.

As for your first paragraph, MMA even in a proto-form, isn't the Karate Kid, or WWE, and kids, especially those directed to it by adults, who'll have their own agenda, will know this. There's a huge gradient and that's the specifics of the situation (which make it different) and which will take time yet to reveal themselves. This is why over-cautious lawmakers do what they do, preventitively: and why personal injury lawyers feed off the mess.

Martials arts types will look at this through their own lens, but so will everyone else, and that means that whatever appeal to reason is made, it'll have to pass a varied set of judgements. Let's hope they're rational.

Indrafist

09-22-2011, 07:54 AM

sanjuro_ronin

09-22-2011, 07:55 AM

Personally I disagree with putting kids into a full contact striking venue before they are 13.
Sparring is different and some kids like to fight even at an early age, but ALWAYS with protective gear.
Grappling oriented MA tend to be ideal for kids because they learn how to fight and how to win or lose without the very "primal" instinct of BEATING on someone.

Let me explain if I may:
In grappling kids wrestle ( with out without a jacket) and they struggle with each other and they learn how to use skill to overcame strength and how important skill AND strength are. They throw each other and they wrestle and that is the samething they do when they are also playfighting so there isn't a true notion of violence at this point.
BUT, add the element of striking and it becomes something different.
Two kids wrestling gives us one image.
Two kids punching and kicking themselves gives us another.
The kids see this difference too.

Indrafist

09-22-2011, 07:57 AM

Lokhopkuen

09-22-2011, 10:22 AM

Here's the video for this.....you make the judgement call. I didn't see any strikes so i can't personally say thats child abuse.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a3c_1316692438

I've seen far worse on the street and experienced worse growing up but there under the lights, inna cage, I can see where this might rankle some chaps civilized sensibilities.

Lucas

09-22-2011, 10:24 AM

no body cried nationally when i was playing tackle football in the street at age 10 and getting ground and scraped and banged up. no body called the press when we would play smear the queeer for hours on end, smashing our friends as best we could. all of this unsupervised. no one cared for any of the crazy sh!t we did as kids. so now some kids are wrestling in a fully supervised event and people cant handle that?!??!

when did the world turn pussie?

Frost

09-22-2011, 01:14 PM

the funny thing is the same people screaming about this in the papers are the same ones who dont think twice about standing on the touch line on a saturday morning screaming at their kids to destroy the opposition and kick the c&ap out of other 8 year olds on a soccer pitch...then swearing at and threatening the ref in front of all the kids :rolleyes:

sanjuro_ronin

09-22-2011, 01:21 PM

Frost

09-22-2011, 01:23 PM

Have a pint mate !

honestly and im not joking, people need to go and stand at a soccer match before saying grappling will turn out bad kids....ive seen under 10 matches where dads have punched refs infront of the kids, where the mums have been swearing at everyone and making the kids cry...give me rugby anyday

sanjuro_ronin

09-22-2011, 01:24 PM

honestly and im not joking, people need to go and stand at a soccer match before saying grappling will turn out bad kids....ive seen under 10 matches where dads have punched refs infront of the kids, where the mums have been swearing at everyone and making the kids cry...give me rugby anyday

That is nothing compared to the hockey parents over here !

Frost

09-22-2011, 01:28 PM

That is nothing compared to the hockey parents over here !

i have a hard time thinking you nice canadians will spit on refs and attack them infront of your kids................!!!!!!!!

sanjuro_ronin

09-23-2011, 07:04 AM

i have a hard time thinking you nice canadians will spit on refs and attack them infront of your kids................!!!!!!!!

Parents get into fights with other parents, the ref's moms go at it, kids will actually stop playing and watch the parents fighting in the seats.
Bunch of wankers.
Rules were made of for zero tolerance for parents that misbehaved.
But then again, hockey breeds a "fighting is the answer" type of mentality.

Pork Chop

09-23-2011, 07:35 AM

i have a hard time thinking you nice canadians will spit on refs and attack them infront of your kids................!!!!!!!!

http://nationalpostnews.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/riot1.jpg?w=940

GeneChing

09-26-2011, 02:19 PM

...I thought it was Nightline, but I just scanned their site and didn't find it. It was late and I was channel surfing, and truthfully, I'm not even sure what night it was...last Thursday maybe. Anyways, here's something in the wake.

Katie Price allows her six-year-old to learn cage-fighting? (http://entertainment.stv.tv/tv/271904-katie-price-allows-her-six-year-old-to-learn-cage-fighting/)

http://files.stv.tv/img/articles/271904-katie-price-allows-her-six-year-old-to-learn-cage-fighting-410x230.jpg
Reality TV star Katie Price has become embroiled in the child cage-fighting storm - by admitting she sends her young son to Mixed Martial Arts classes.

26 September 2011 00:00 GMT

Katie Price allows her six-year-old to learn cage-fighting?

Katie Price: Junior's MMA lesson was 'just fun'. Pic: Rex Features

Reality TV star Katie Price has become embroiled in the child cage-fighting storm - by admitting she sends her young son to Mixed Martial Arts classes.

The former glamour model has revealed that she sends six-year-old Junior to "zero tolerance" lessons run by a friend of ex-husband Alex Reid.

Katie told her followers on twitter last week: "Junior just had his first mma lesson with sol at fit fight school!"

The news follows the furore caused by the release of video of two eight-year-old lads taking part in a cage-fight.

A source told The People that the news is "sure to enrage" Junior's dad Peter Andre.

Peter was outraged when photos emerged of ex-wife Katie watching one of Alex Reid's Mixed Martial Arts fights.

A friend said at the time: "He was shocked by the photographs of Kate at the fight.

"She seemed to have bloodlust. He doesn't want his kids to be around someone that could ever think that sort of behaviour is OK."

"It's brutal and he hates Kate buying into it all."

Katie's spokesman told the newspaper: "Sol is Katie's personal trainer and has been for a number of years.

"Katie does not condone the children fighting that was recently reported in the press - but she does know the importance of her children having an active lifestyle to stay fit and healthy.

"Katie would never allow Junior to fight. This was purely a fun exercise session." I don't really follow reality stars so I don't know who Katie is and I don't care enough to wiki her.

Lucas

09-26-2011, 03:44 PM

I think the best answer to this is to just have all of the kids cage fight for their next meal. this will form a natural pecking order, at which point we can let the weak ones die, leaving only the strong to carry on. once all of the children are cage fighting animals, we wont have to worry about it being safe or not and can get on to whats really important...boobies.

TaichiMantis

09-27-2011, 08:01 AM

...boobies.

*sigh*

to tell you the truth, sometimes they just get in the way...:o

TenTigers

10-15-2011, 08:27 PM

another kid just died due to head trauma in a HS Football game.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/15/high-school-football-player-dies-head-injury_n_1012366.html?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk2|104716

Lee Chiang Po

10-15-2011, 11:05 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3497233

How young is too young? How much contact, when? What attitude toward physical violence is being formed? What do you think?:eek:

I don't know. Is there a legal age for getting tatoo's? I mean, you got to have the appropriate tatoo's or you can't do MMA, right?

Yoshiyahu

10-18-2011, 05:47 PM

Survival of the fittest. 8 year olds should fight to the death in the circle of fire!

So true...the same thing was done in my family...Thats why I only have two brothers out 10 of us...We three were the strongest. The other seven brother and sisters fail to weakness and perished!

GeneChing

06-25-2012, 09:46 AM

Children's mixed martial arts cage fights draw fire (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2012/06/22/nb-mixed-martial-kids.html?cmp=rss)
Youth fights the future of the sport, says trainer
CBC News
Posted: Jun 23, 2012 11:58 AM AT
Last Updated: Jun 23, 2012 12:18 PM AT
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/topstories/2012/06/23/nb-hi-kids-mma-852-8col.jpg
Children take part in a mixed martial arts cage fight. Children take part in a mixed martial arts cage fight. (CBC)

A mixed martial arts competition in Moncton, N.B., is garnering controversy after it featured a cage fight between children last month.

The adult–oriented event included exhibition mixed martial arts matches, made popular by the Ultimate Fighting Championship, involving children as young as eight.

"It's not like the MMA you see in the movies, or what you see on TV," said John Williams, the Canadian representative for amateur mixed martial arts.

The fights are "extremely safe," he said, because the children have "lots of equipment on."

Williams said the rules were approved by the Moncton boxing commission, but psychologist Charles Emmrys disapproves of the fighting, especially as entertainment for adults.

"Violence is exciting. That's why we have action movies, they pump us up. Children should not be pumping us up by beating each other up," he said.

"When parents are talking about encouraging kids to beat up other kids, well that's called encouraging a bully to be a bully."

But Williams argues the sport is as safe as karate or taekwondo. As a precaution, he said there were two doctors and an ambulance on site during the fights.

"There are more people who get hurt and killed in cheerleading than this," he said.

Williams, who is also a trainer, said youth fights are safe and here to stay. He hopes to one day see the sport in the Olympics.

In the meantime, Williams is organizing Provincial, Atlantic and National championships. He said children and teens will be part of all future competitions.

"There are more people who get hurt and killed in cheerleading than this" is a poor argument. You could just say ""There are more people in cheerleading than this" which is really the factor at play. There is potential for injury with any activity, and given the magnitude of cheerleading vs. MMA, there would have to be a significant adjustment for the population difference to make such a claim valid. That being said, cheerleading is fairly injurious. ;)

GeneChing

07-19-2012, 10:12 AM

Six-Year-Old MMA Fighter Imitates Tito Ortiz's "Grave Digger" Celebration After Defeating Opponent (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/six-old-mma-fighter-imitates-tito-ortizs-grave-180700710--highschool.html)
Yahoo! Contributor Network
By Eric Holden | Yahoo! Contributor Network – Tue, Jul 17, 2012 2:07 PM EDT

Something struck me as a bit creepy watching six-year-old Armenian MMA fighter Minas Avagyan doing his best Tito Ortiz impression with a "grave digger" routine after tapping out his seven-year-old opponent via a guillotine choke.

Poor Sportsmanship?

Whether or not it alarms you watching young kids fight in competitive mixed martial arts tournaments, the Ortiz-esque grave digger routine showed poor sportsmanship and came across to me as more disturbing than "cute."

Think about it. You essentially have a six-year-old child pretending to dig a grave for an opponent he just beat. A coach or parent should have told Avagyan pre-fight to not show up his opponent by performing this routine, as a classy MMA fighter would never do such a thing.

Respecting Your Opponent

If you're going to develop young MMA fighters, it's paramount to do so the right way, by pushing the idea of sportsmanship and respect towards an opponent. Respect is easily the most important part of martial arts, and children getting involved in the sport are going to model their behavior after the adults who compete in it.

Ortiz matured over the years, but he clearly had an influence over young students of the game. Hopefully, current UFC fighters will take a cue from this situation and see what kind of impact they have on some of the new kids getting into the sport.

I admire athletes like Junior dos Santos and Kenny Florian, who take new students under their wing to lead them down a good path and show them how to have respect for the sport by being classy towards opponents.

Kids Competing In MMA

Besides the post-fight actions, the fight itself was a bit too extreme for my liking.

I don't see anything wrong with young kids learning to compete in mixed martial arts, but at the tender age of six, striking should be modified and ground-and-pound should be limited or banned completely.

By the looks of the video, striking seems to be perfectly legal in this league. Avagyan's opponent opened the tilt with a wild, looping right cross that likely would have caused some major damage if it connected.

Later in the fight, Avagyan softened up his opponent with body shots before securing the choke.

Should They Wear Helmets?

At such a young age, punches to the head are quite dangerous. In the United States, six and seven year olds start playing football and engaging in wrestling, so MMA is not that far removed from other full contact sports.

"Other kids practice sports that could result in head injuries or concussions, but that doesn't stop parents from encouraging their boys to play football," said Yahoo! contributor Cheryl Ragsdale. "Injuries happen even when players are fully suited with protective gear."

Ragsdale's assessment was right on the money. Injuries can occur in any sport, especially at a young age when bodies are still developing.

Forcing young fighters to wear headgear might not be the answer, as that would take away from the development of head escapes from submission attempts. I think the proper solution would simply be to ban strikes to the head, and disallow ground-and-pound.

Here's the vid: 6 years fighter MMA Champion.ArmFC-10.Hayk Tashchyan vs Minas Avagyan HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQb4EoBdYFM)

sanjuro_ronin

07-19-2012, 11:00 AM

If a person is NOT taught respect, they will not have it.

bawang

07-19-2012, 05:20 PM

what wrong with the grave digger routine? i think its pretty funny of tito to do that.

David Jamieson

07-23-2012, 07:09 AM

My view on this is that it is a failure at teaching children well.
Teaching kids deliberate violence is in my opinion stupid. Especially as a pass time.

Let them be kids and have their tussles and such, but training them?
Utter bollocks.

pateticorecords

07-24-2012, 07:06 AM

What most people seem to forget is that constant blows to the head are not good for the brain in the long term. In 20-30 years the result of it all:D

A child should not be introduced to the full blown sport at such an early age, IMO.

One of the gripes I have with MMA characters is the lack of respect. I am not trying to clump everybody together but for the most part what I have experienced firsthand has been arrogance.

It is what it is I guess.

GeneChing

01-15-2013, 10:31 AM

Ban minors from attending MMA events. Make MMA just like porn and alcohol. What do y'all think of that?

Farmington Hills Ordinance Would Keep Minors from Mixed Martial Arts Events (http://farmington-mi.patch.com/articles/farmington-hills-ordinance-would-keep-minors-from-mixed-martial-arts-events)

Officials are expected to hear more public comment on the proposed ordinance at their Feb. 11 meeting.

By Joni Hubred-Golden
Email the author
6:00 am

If promoters bring mixed martial arts, wrestling or similar events to Farmington Hills, city officials want to make sure young people aren't exposed to the violence.

ouncil members agreed during a Monday study session that new rules, discussed at a November study session and tabled Dec. 10, should include a provision that prohibits anyone under age 18 from attending the matches.

"I don't like the idea of kids watching this stuff," council member Randy Bruce said. "Kids really don't have the ability to put these things in perspective. To me, this is an adult activity."

The ordinance, drafted after Police Chief Chuck Nebus received inquiries from event organizers, would replace an existing ordinance that is only about a sentence long. While State of Michigan rules govern professional mixed martial arts events, there are no state-wide rules for amateur events.

City attorney Steve Joppich said the proposed ordinance is "totally defensible on a legal basis". It requires a detailed application with information about the promoters, the nature and layout of the event, and acknowledgement that the organizers will bring in their own emergency medical and security personnel, among other things.

Joppich said he doesn't know of any other city that has been as restrictive.

"This ordinance is meant to keep the unscrupulous people out of our city," Mayor Barry Brickner said. "I would just as soon not have (the events) at all."

Resident Mary Johnston railed at officials for not banning the sport.

"This entire discussion is appalling," she said. "You're talking about doing things people get arrested for ... This is not a sport at all, this is unadulterated murder."

Johnston said there should be a public hearing, and Brickner said members of the public will be able to comment when the ordinance is introduced. City manager Steve Brock said that will likely be at the council's Feb. 11 meeting.

Officials noted they cannot ban any business that is allowed under Michigan state law. Brock said anyone looking for a channel through which to ban the sports should contact state legislators.

TaichiMantis

01-15-2013, 08:12 PM

Are kids allowed at boxing matches or wwe?....:rolleyes:

GeneChing

01-16-2013, 10:59 AM

I think kids fund WWE. ;)

TaichiMantis

02-04-2013, 02:29 PM

Interview (http://www.cnn.com/video/standard.html?hpt=hp_t3#/video/us/2013/02/04/bts-youth-mma.hln) of Aiden and his mom. I thought she presented the sport and the reasons she allows her son to participate in a positive manner.

GeneChing

03-01-2013, 10:25 AM

What is MMA about again then? :rolleyes:

MMA for kids exploding in popularity (http://www.clickorlando.com/news/MMA-for-kids-exploding-in-popularity/-/1637132/18562986/-/omebvsz/-/index.html)
MLB star Prince Fielder trains with his children
Author: Matt Papaycik, Producer, mpapaycik@wkmg.com
Published On: Feb 27 2013 11:27:48 PM EST Updated On: Feb 28 2013 12:48:20 PM EST

New craze for kids: fighting in a cage
OCOEE, Fla. -

The videos may look painful, but the sport is becoming wildly popular, and many parents are having their children train in mixed martial arts to battle bullying.

In Central Florida, children as young as 5 years old are learning mixed martial arts, known as MMA. The kids get in a cage and learn how to punch, kick and choke each other out.

"The trend I've seen with children and mixed martial arts is an explosion," says Jonathan Burke, the owner of The VI Levels, a mixed martial arts gym in Ocoee.

He's not surprised by the latest numbers, which show that more than 3 million kids under the age of 13 are taking MMA classes around the country. In fact, YouTube has numerous videos showing boys and girls competing in MMA.

But unlike the violent fights you see in those YouTube videos, Burke says his goal is not to train boys and girls to fight in a cage like the pros.

"We use it to teach these kids self-defense, and how to deal with mental issues," says Burke. "It's not about fighting, it's about getting in great physical shape, improving your mental focus and discipline."

Parents tell us that they got their kids involved to deal with one of the most troubling issues out there.

"We thought he might have had a bullying problem because he's small for his size," says Keith Ori, a local father who's talking about his 8-year-old son, Ayrton.

"It happened to me as a kid, and it happens to them as well," says Prince Fielder, the All-Star first baseman for the Detroit Tigers.

Even a pro athlete like Fielder knows the painful realities of bullying. He and his two sons train at The VI Levels. And Fielder says that MMA is already turning his kids into men.

"I just never want them to feel, have their feelings hurt or lose confidence, just because of what someone says," says Fielder.

Even though the lessons at The VI Levels are pretty PG, you can't deny the violence and aggression in those YouTube videos, where kids are fighting in a cage.

So it had us wondering -- could MMA, over time, turn these children into bullies themselves?

"I think there's always a chance," says Dr. Andrew Pittington, a child psychologist in Lake Mary.

He says parents need to find an MMA school that teaches good values first, like self-control and discipline. Otherwise, kids may get the wrong idea.

"It's self-defense, and it's not to be used in an aggressive manor, or to attack other people, or to intimidate or bully other people," says Pittington.

We asked Burke at The VI Levels: How can you guarantee that these kids won't take these fighting skills, and become bullies themselves?

"I can't guarantee they won't be a bully, but I can guarantee that the way we present the information, we're going to make bullying look so bad, they're going to be ashamed to be associated with that word," says Burke.

And, of course, there's always the risk of injuries, especially concussions.

That's why doctors recommend that children wear headgear when they train.

Vash

03-01-2013, 11:23 AM

it looks like you accidentally posted an article about karate in the 80s that someone had edited to contain the phrase "mixed martial arts."

GeneChing

03-01-2013, 02:40 PM

But I must confess that I've made many mistakes....obviously...or why would I be stuck here with this forum? :o

Vash

03-01-2013, 04:06 PM

No good deed goes unpunished.

@PLUGO

11-06-2013, 06:21 PM

A New-York based photographer, Sebastian Montalvo, traveled across the country and compiled a photographic essay (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2487527/Inside-world-child-cage-fighting-Boys-trained-attack-MMA-arenas.html) in which he attempts to shine a light onto the ferocious sport, giving names and faces to the little children whose parents are encouraging their fighting spirit.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/11/05/article-2487527-19316D1C00000578-366_964x642.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/11/05/article-2487527-19316DAC00000578-965_964x642.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/11/05/article-2487527-19316CA800000578-390_964x642.jpg

Dragonzbane76

11-06-2013, 06:59 PM

hum....I could find some pics of kids wrestling that are pretty similar to these and put a spin on them that depicts it as violent and abusive. I'm not saying that kids should be in the cage fighting full on fights now. I believe that they should at least be 18 before they step into the cage, but that is not to say that the training regiments cannot be used by them.

GeneChing

07-15-2016, 09:34 AM

There are a lot more pix if you follow the link. It's a NG piece after all.

Photos Show Controversial World of Kids’ Mixed Martial Arts Fighting (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/07/pictures-kids-mixed-martial-arts-sports/)
Kids as young as eight can compete in mixed martial arts in California.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/content/dam/news/2016/07/08/mma_youth/01_mma_youth_axel_oberg.ngsversion.1468530505634.a dapt.1190.1.jpg
Fourteen-year-old Korey Mendoza (right) competes against Muhammed Ali Umar in mixed martial arts in San Bernardino, California. Before and after every competition, they must be examined by a physician.
PHOTOGRAPH BY AXEL OBERG

By Becky Little
Photographs by Axel Oberg
PUBLISHED JULY 14, 2016

Sam Mendoza’s oldest son started doing competitive mixed martial arts when he was about 10. His youngest son began when he was six.

During competitions, Korey and Sammy (now 14 and 11, respectively) use moves from multiple disciplines—including wrestling, kickboxing, and jujitsu—against their opponents. Kids Sammy’s age or younger are paired against both boys and girls; but since Korey is over 12, he only spars with boys.

Kids’ mixed martial arts (MMA) is modeled after the adult version popularized by the Ultimate Fighting Championship—a sport so controversial New York didn’t legalize it until last year. (It is now legal in all 50 states.)

Although youth MMA is less well known and less brutal than its grown-up inspiration, it too has faced its share of criticism. In a 2008 article, MMA commentator Sam Caplan wrote that “It should be illegal for anyone under the [age of] 18 to compete in a mixed martial arts fight.” And Mendoza, who organizes youth MMA matches with the United States Fight League in San Bernardino, California, is certainly aware of this sentiment.

“A lot of people think I’m crazy,” he says. “They think I’m a bad parent.”

But youth MMA as practiced by the U.S. Fight League isn’t the same as what you’d see at an adult UFC match. Kids aren’t allowed to strike their opponent’s head or knock anyone out. For further safety, all contestants must be checked by a physician before and after fighting. Fighters wear headgear, and promoters must also have an ambulance stationed outside during fights. So far, the league hasn’t recorded any concussions in 222 paired fights between October 2014 and May 2016.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/content/dam/news/2016/07/08/mma_youth/10_mma_youth_axel_oberg.ngsversion.1468530507442.a dapt.1190.1.jpg
Unlike many youth sports, girls and boys ages eight to 11 compete against each other in the U.S. Fight League. Once they turn 12, they are separated by gender.
PHOTOGRAPH BY AXEL OBERG

John Rodriguez and Adam Brooks, both M.D.s and orthopedic sports medicine fellows, have been using the league’s records to study sports injuries in youth MMA. (Rodriguez’s fellowship is at the Andrews Research & Education Foundation, and Brooks’ is at the University of California, Los Angeles.)

Rodriguez says that because most sports don’t have a physician examine kids before and after activity, “the chance of missing a concussion, I think, is a lot higher in almost every other youth sport” than it is for the MMA practiced by the U.S. Fight League.

That said, the league’s data doesn’t include injuries that might be sustained during practice. And as Brooks notes, “you spend a lot more time training than you do in the actual fight.” Ultimately, Rodriguez and Brooks say that they don’t have enough data yet to say how safe youth MMA is compared to other popular sports like soccer or football.

Since 2014, the U.S. Fight League has registered about 240 fighters ages eight to 17 in California and Missouri, the only two states where youth MMA is regulated. And U.S. Fight League founder Jon Frank hopes that youth MMA becomes regulated in other states. He says that it can boost kids’ discipline and self-esteem, but emphasizes one benefit above all others.

“At the end of the day, it’s a form of self-defense,” says Frank. “And if you’re going to take the most effective form of self-defense, there’s nothing that comes close to mixed martial arts.”

Frank adds that a lot of parents get their kids involved with MMA because they are worried about bullying. And when GQ correspondent Drew Magary reported on kids MMA near Orlando, Florida, he also picked up on this, writing: “Bullying is the number one reason kids wind up here.”

The fact that MMA is a form of self-defense doesn’t mean that Frank wants kids to take their fighting skills outside of the ring. Yet as more kids begin to practice the sport—both in states where it’s regulated and states like Florida, where it isn’t—conversations not just about its safety, but also its legitimacy as a sport for kids, are poised to come out of the cage and into the mainstream.

Follow Becky Little on Twitter.

Jimbo

07-15-2016, 09:59 AM

I see no problem with youth MMA, as long as they aren't allowed to strike the head/KO the opponent until they turn 18. It's probably a good deal less violent or traumatic than youth football or Golden Gloves boxing. As long as the kids are also taught to have a mature, respectful and responsible mindset outside of the gym or cage.

I DO have an issue with the guy who said that MMA is 'the most effective form of self-defense'. IMO, it shows a basic oversimplification and ignorance of what real-world 'self-defense' entails. Self-defense involves many, MANY factors and scenarios. It isn't just taking down a single, unarmed school bully in a schoolyard tussle, submitting him, winning his respect and then becoming buddies with him. It doesn't even always involve up-close, personal contact. For only one example: With the widespread popularity and availability of MMA training, I'm willing to bet that a number of victims in some of the recent terror attacks trained in MMA. Self-defense runs the gamut from that type of scenario to avoidance, all the way up to legal issues. I could go on and on, but my point should be self-explanatory.

GeneChing

10-06-2016, 09:21 AM

Chechen leader infuriates long-time friend Vladimir Putin by entering his three sons as young as EIGHT in mixed martial arts brawls – and televising it
(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3824711/Kremilin-calls-investigation-Chechen-leader-enters-young-sons-televised-mixed-martial-arts-brawls.html)
Ramzan Kadyrov posted videos of his sons pummeling their opponents
Akhmad, 10, Eli, 9, and Adam, 8, all took part in the TV broadcasted fights
The Kremlin has called for an investigation
Russian rules forbid children under 12 from stepping into the ring
MMA pro Fedor Emelianenko described the event as 'unacceptable'

By FRANKI COOKNEY FOR MAILONLINE
PUBLISHED: 07:19 EST, 6 October 2016 | UPDATED: 11:06 EST, 6 October 2016

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/06/11/3927F47000000578-3824711-image-a-2_1475749513927.jpg
Kadyrov's sons Akhmad, 10 (pictured with his father), Eli, 9, and Adam, 8, all took part in the fights

The Kremlin has called for an investigation after state TV broadcast mixed martial arts fights between children as young as eight.
Ramzan Kadyrov, the strongman leader of the Russian region of Chechnya, entered three of his young sons into so-called exhibition bouts during a televised fight on Tuesday.
His little boy Akhmad, 10, beat another child by a technical knockout in the cage during an 'exhibition bout' on a nationally televised fight on Tuesday. His younger brothers Eli and Adam were also seen pummeling their young opponents as the crowd roar with encouragement.
President Vladimir Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, said that the fact that one fight between 10-year-olds finished with a technical knockout was 'a reason for the appropriate oversight agencies to inquire about this incident.'
He suggested the fights were a matter for children's rights ombudsman Anna Kuznetsova.
Deputy Sports Minister Pavel Kolobkov has told Russian news agency R-Sport that he will look into the fights, citing rules that children under 12 are not allowed to step into the ring.
Scroll down for video

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/06/13/2RsRyzzJLi11bd8b8478e38d97b4-3824711-Chechen_regional_leader_Ramzan_Kadyrov_speaks_at_h is_inauguratio-a-18_1475755756171.jpg
Ramzan Kadyrov, the strongman leader of the Russian region of Chechnya, posted videos of his sons competing in the fights on Instagram

Kadyrov has already been slammed for allowing his sons, aged between 8 and 10, to compete in a mixed martial arts tournament - and then sharing the videos online.
The burly former warlord and longtime pal of Russian president Vladimir Putin was criticised by leading Russian MMA pro Fedor Emelianenko for letting his sons take part in the 'unacceptable' event.
In a statement on his Instagram page, Emelianenko said the children risked permanent injury and psychological harm.
'What happened at the tournament in Grozny is unacceptable and, moreover, cannot be justified,' said Emelianenko, who heads the Russian MMA Union.
'There were little ones, eight years old, punching each other in front of happy adults. Is it really so important for you to organize a spectacle at the cost of children's health?!'
It was 'incomprehensible to me' that state TV showed children's fights, he added.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/06/12/3927F46500000578-3824711-image-a-6_1475755015940.jpg
Russian MMA pro Fedor Emelianenko described the event as 'unacceptable' and said the children risked permanent injury and psychological harm

Emelianenko said children under the age of 12 should not be allowed to take part in any MMA fights and that anyone under the age of 21 must wear a helmet and protective gear for safety reasons. The children in the televised bouts fought bare-headed. In at least one case, a child received a heavy blow to the head.
The children walked into the ring with background music, were announced in the same way as pro fighters and were rewarded with belts when they won, with their father looking on. The TV broadcast from the Chechen capital Grozny was chiefly focused on adult bouts, but featured professional commentary and graphics introducing the child fighters.
Kadyrov - who was inaugurated Wednesday to a new term as Chechnya's leader - later posted footage of the fights to his personal Instagram account where it received over 150,000 views.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE01WQ-szVg

Among his congratulatory comments for his sons, he wrote that a defeated 10-year-old opponent 'showed real masculine character,' adding: 'I'm sure there are victorious fights ahead.'
It's not the first time the Chechan leader, who was once described a 'medieval tyrant', has run into trouble with his Instagram feed.
Half social media-savvy, half snap-happy, the father-of-eight has 905,000 followers and regularly posts bizarre shots of himself with baby animals such as kittens, lambs and even a baby tiger.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/18/26C398FF00000578-3000353-The_former_Chechen_warlord_lies_down_for_a_snooze_ with_a_pet_tig-a-62_1426692381508.jpg
The father-of-eight has 905,000 Instagram followers and regularly posts bizarre shots of himself with baby animals such as kittens, lambs and even a baby tiger

He also appears to have a penchant for fancy dress, sharing pictures of himself dressed as a knight in armour and in medieval peasant garb.
Kadyrov has been repeatedly accused of human rights violations during his rule of Chechnya, including murders and forced disappearances.
He is a noted sports fan, overseeing a Russian Premier League soccer team, and once challenged one of his ministers to a boxing match after criticizing his work.
Kadyrov, who is a close ally of President Vladimir Putin, won re-election as Chechnya's leader last month with almost 98 percent of the vote, according to regional election authorities. He faces almost no organized political opposition.

Odd story. Didn't expect this thread to go this way.

GeneChing

10-14-2016, 09:55 AM

Now there doesn't seem to be clear evidence that this attack is related, but if it is, that's a new low, even for Russian MMA.

Daughter of Russian MMA legend Fedor Emelianenko attacked in Moscow (https://www.rt.com/news/362689-emelianenko-mma-daughter-attacked/)
Published time: 13 Oct, 2016 17:41

https://cdn.rt.com/files/2016.10/original/57ffc1c6c461882f098b4612.jpg
Fedor Emelianenko © Vladimir Astapkovich / Reuters

The daughter of Russian Mixed Martial Arts champion Fedor Emelianenko required hospital treatment after being attacked in Moscow. Emelianenko recently made headlines for criticizing an MMA event in Chechnya that involved underage participants.
The 16-year-old girl was attacked last week on her way home from school, when a stranger approached her in the street and hit her in the chest, Russian newspaper Moskovsky Komsomolets (MK) reported. She was taken to hospital and a criminal case was launched.

The girl is now "feeling well," according to the MMA Union press secretary, Yulia Kuklina, who spoke to TASS on Thursday.

The fighter’s daughter told police the attacker was of "Slavic appearance," KP.ru cited a Moscow police official as saying. The official reportedly added that the suspect did not hide his face, and that there was some "interesting" footage from CCTV cameras that should help law enforcement officers find the man.

Having confirmed that the teenager received a blow to the chest, the source said that the man "just came up to the girl and hit her," with "nothing having seemingly led to a conflict."

The attack has been condemned by Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov. Noting that he knows Fedor Emelianenko personally, Peskov added that "it's always worrying and painful when a friend's daughter is attacked," as quoted by Interfax on Thursday.

Peskov said that Russian President Vladimir Putin had been informed of the incident, but advised people to avoid any speculation on possible motives for the attack while the investigation was ongoing.

Last week Emelianenko, who is head of the governing body of Russian MMA, became involved in controversy surrounding the ‘Grand Prix Akhmat 2016’ mixed martial arts event in Chechnya. Emelianenko criticized the organizers of the tournament for featuring MMA fights between underage children.

Saying that he was "outraged" by the event, the Russian MMA Union head also personally addressed Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov, who was an honored guest at the event and whose sons took part in the bouts.

The tournament sparked huge controversy on social media. While some MMA fighters have been taking sides, supporting either the Chechen organizers or Emelianenko, Kadyrov has appealed for calm, saying that "the conflict should not be escalated."

GeneChing

05-24-2017, 10:37 AM

Impressive

12-Year-Old Momo Wins MMA Debut by Choking Her 24-Year-Old Opponent Unconscious (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2710771-12-year-old-momo-wins-mma-debut-by-choking-her-24-year-old-opponent-unconscious)
NATHAN MCCARTER
MAY 20, 2017

Bruno Massami‏ (https://twitter.com/BrMassami/status/865864899942993921/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2****icles %2F2710771-12-year-old-momo-wins-mma-debut-by-choking-her-24-year-old-opponent-unconscious)
@BrMassami

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAQrhG8UwAApzrw.jpg

12 years old girl, Momo got a RNC win against Momoko Yamasaki at Deep Jewels event in Tokyo.
2:40 AM - 20 May 2017
66 Retweets 47 likes

Remember the 12-year-old girl who was set to make her amateur MMA debut at Deep Jewels 16 against a woman twice her age? Well, it happened Saturday in Tokyo.

And she dominated her elder.

Momo, competing in the 95-pound minimumweight division, wasted little time in getting the back of her opponent and sinking in a rear-naked choke. Momoko Yamazaki tried to fight it, but Momo eventually put her to sleep.

Prior to the bout, Momo's manager, Shu Hirata, didn't mince words in a statement to WMMARankings.com, saying he expected the fight to be a "humiliation" for Yamazaki.

He was correct.

The young prospect trains at the same gym as star Mizuki Inoue, and the victory will keep her in the limelight for the time being.

Here's Momo (standing far right) post-fight:

Twitterで画像を見る

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DARD8vVUQAAGNf3.jpg

フォローする
tatsuyakay (https://twitter.com/tatsuyakay/status/865891740946882562/photo/1) @tatsuyakay
お友達を抱く古瀬美月！！！
ガチの萌えだ！！！#DEEPJEWELS
2017年May20日 04:27
12 12件のリツイート 43 いいね43件
Twitter広告の情報とプライバシー
Now she goes back to being the young assassin she is.

Jimbo

05-24-2017, 07:16 PM

Was Momo's adult opponent even that experienced?

TBH, I'm not sure this is so great. The adult woman couldn't have won either way. If the woman had won, she would have been accused of beating a 12 year-old. Since she lost, she's now humiliated.

If they keep feeding Momo 'easy' adults, is that really good? What happens if they draw the wrong opponent who can really fight and doesn't give a crap that she's 12? Because that will most likely happen, unless they're carefully hand-picking her opponents for her.

Oso

05-24-2017, 08:10 PM

Jimbo said a lot of what I was thinking. How legit do we know this fight to be? I'm all for kids getting their confidence on and getting skilled early. But, this smacks of 'promoterism' for sure. yea, i think i just made that word up but w/e. I'm not involved enough anymore to search for a vid of the fight. Another thought: a 12 year old 95 pounder is big...yet an adult 95 pounder is small. IDK, I think all this is maybe promotional in nature and some adult person who maybe has been training really hard to 'be someone' just had to throw a fight. idk. I no Know.

Oso

05-24-2017, 08:23 PM

just scrolled up a bit...i've missed some stuff.

1 - junior high and high school wrestling fulfills all any <18 year old needs for competitive grappling. **** off to any of you bjj naysayers: I beat my first bjj opponent in a post bjj seminar 'challenge' by knowing more about body positioning.
2 - there are many boxing clubs that have 'olympic' style/rules boxing for <18 year old. This is as much striking skill as is needed to start mma training at 18.

this thing with kids training mma is manufactured by wannabe parents living vicariously through their kids and is harmful to those kids as much as the whole 'beauty pageant' thing and any other sport where kids are pressured at a young age to perform beyond their natural development.

GeneChing

09-08-2017, 09:31 AM

The Complicated Morality of a Mixed Martial Arts Fight Club for Impoverished Chinese Boys (https://globalvoices.org/2017/09/01/the-complicated-morality-of-a-mixed-martial-arts-fight-club-for-impoverished-chinese-boys/)
Posted 1 September 2017 8:24 GMT

https://globalvoices.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/fingerprint-800x492.png
An adolescent was forced to sign a document ending his training at a fight club and sent back home. Screen capture from Beijing News video.

A video of underprivileged adolescent mixed martial arts (MMA) fighters duking it out in a ring, with a large crowd cheering them on, recently went viral on the Chinese web, triggering widespread debate about the morality of recruiting vulnerable children to take part in a violent sport.

In response, government officials — seemingly to save face — yanked some of the children from the club without prior warning, leaving the boys in tears and Chinese netizens worrying about the young ones’ futures.

The original report, entitled “MMA orphans: If you don’t fight, then you can go back home and eat potatoes,” was produced by online media outlet Pear Video. It shows a number of boys between the ages of 12 and 14 fighting. Some of their faces are bloodied.

They belong to EnBo Fight Club in Chengdu, Sichuan Province, founded by a man named En Bo, who used to serve in the Chinese Armed Police Force and won two championships in a district army fighting match.

The video reports that EnBo Fight Club takes in about 400 children of the Yi people, an ethnic minority from Liang Shan Autonomous Prefecture. Rates of drug abuse, HIV and poverty are high in the region. Most of the EnBo children have lost either one or both of their parents, and would have to work hard labor at home.

In the club, they eat foods that might not otherwise be available to them, like beef and eggs. One of the employees from EnBo mentions that the children earn some money from their commercial fights; the money is managed by the club and is given to the children when they need it.

One of the children says that even though the training is hard sometimes, life in the club is much better than back in his hometown. His ultimate dream is to win the UFC (Unlimited Fighting Championship), which comes with a gold belt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvyFR7ItlUQ

Perhaps unsurprisingly, EnBo Fight Club came under fire after the video report went viral. Chinese netizens furiously debated the ethics of an MMA fighting club for vulnerable boys:

Translation Original Quote
Starting such intense fight training when they are only adolescents will probably cause permanent damage to their bodies in the future.

Translation Original Quote
This is also a good way out to a brighter future, much better than growing up deep in the mountains and then trying to go to the city.

Translation Original Quote
Letting the kids be trained to participate in underground combat and to entertain the gamblers, this is the right path? My god!

Translation Original Quote
How comes starting young in ping pong, gymnastics, or basketball aren’t considered bad for your future, but training to be a fighter is believed to lead to no future, that it can only teach physical fighting and become a hidden danger for society?
‘Is the government’s face more important than the kids?’

Following the attention, on August 17 local authorities from Liang Shan county in Sichuan province stepped in. They pulled some of the children from the club, took them back home, encouraged them to focus on their studies, and promised 748 yuan per month (112 US dollars) as a monthly stipend for those living in extreme poverty.

But club founder En Bo wasn't hosting and training the children without the government's knowledge. He says some government officials from Liang Shan contacted him and sent him the first batch of students. Later more arrangements of the same nature were made.

Some of the criticism centered on the children being deprived of the opportunity to receive China's nine-year compulsory education. En Bo explained to Beijing News that he tried to enroll the boys in schools in Chengdu, but was asked to pay 30,000-50,000 yuan (about 4,500-7,500 US dollars) per child for fixing their local residential permits. Eventually, he decided to start his own night school in the club by hiring four part-time tutors to teach Chinese and math.
continued next post

GeneChing

09-08-2017, 09:31 AM

During the interview, the fight club founder choked up when talking about the children having to leave. Below is the full video report of their last day in the club:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqNWjKxOGVw

Beijing News interviewed a number of the boys, who were in tears when they learned it would be their last day. The video showed children being forcibly dragged away from the club, triggering another heated online debate, but this time, public morality and local government authorities were the subject of scrutiny:

Translation Original Quote
This is the saddest video I’ve seen this year! An outcome of collective vice in the name of “kindness”!

Translation Original Quote
[Imagine] your parents are drug addicts, gamblers or have vanished. In the mountains, you are always starving. One day, a top-level sports club in the city takes you in without asking you for a training fee. It gives you food and Nike sport shoes, provides you with the world's top trainers. You have teachers and friends and have developed a sense of confidence… suddenly, everything ends and you have to return to the mountains. If I were in that situation, I might kill myself.

Translation Original Quote
Admire En Bo, a great dream creator.

Translation Original Quote
Is the government’s face more important than the kids?

Translation Original Quote
When you forcefully took the kids away, did you consider what they think? You are just putting your own desire above the kids, and believe that it’s the right thing to do.

Translation Original Quote
En Bo should use this opportunity to advertise the fight club, if it’s the right road you should keep going! MMA is a very good sport!
Discussions will surely continue, and we can only wish the children all the best in their future.

Written by
Jimmy Wu

This is complicated knowing Chinese culture. It somewhat reminds me of the Opera school where Jackie, Sammo and their martial siblings were trained.

Kids (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?51595-Kids-and-MMA) &
China MMA (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?49870-China-MMA)

GeneChing

03-19-2018, 09:09 AM

Anyone active here from Missouri?

Missouri House votes to ban children from mixed martial arts (http://www.kfvs12.com/story/37734781/missouri-house-votes-to-ban-children-from-mixed-martial-arts)
Thursday, March 15th 2018, 11:23 am PDT
Thursday, March 15th 2018, 11:25 am PDT

http://kfvs12.images.worldnow.com/images/16323678_G.jpg?auto=webp&disable=upscale&width=800&lastEditedDate=20180315142419
The Missouri House has passed a proposal that would ban children 17 and younger from participating in mixed martial arts or professional kickboxing. (Source: Pixabay.com)

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) - The Missouri House has passed a proposal that would ban children 17 and younger from participating in mixed martial arts or professional kickboxing.

The bill, approved Thursday in a 112-29 vote, would put amateur kickboxing and both professional and mixed martial arts under state supervision. In an amateur mixed martial arts contest, elbow strikes to the head would no longer be allowed, nor would knee strikes to the head during the first five bouts. However, contestants could agree to allow knee strikes after that.

Proponents say the rules will protect children from potential brain damage.

Opponents say the bill creates unnecessary regulations and infringes on parental rights.

The bill now moves to the Senate.

The bill is HB 1388

Thread: Kids and MMA (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?51595-Kids-and-MMA)
Thread: MMA legal in which states now? (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?49383-MMA-legal-in-which-states-now)

GeneChing

07-11-2018, 09:13 AM

Missouri approves measure preventing minors from entering MMA competitions (https://fox2now.com/2018/07/10/missouri-approves-measure-preventing-minors-from-entering-mma-competitions/)
POSTED 5:46 PM, JULY 10, 2018, BY VIC FAUST, UPDATED AT 04:23PM, JULY 10, 2018

ST. LOUIS - Mixed martial arts is a tough, physical sport. A new Missouri measure, which sailed through the state House and Senate, is making sure kids under 18 can’t ever fight in a cage.

“With the sport growing in leaps and bounds right now, we needed something like this for the state of Missouri,” said Jesse Finney, owner of Finney’s MMA.

Finney, a former MMA fighter, is the biggest MMA promoter in the state. He said kids are training in record numbers and legislation was needed to monitor their activity. They can train, just not fight in a cage like adults.

“That's our biggest program here at Finney’s MMA,” he said. “You’re not going to bully people, this is for anti-bullying.”

Missouri Representative David Gregory (R-Sunset Hills), who sponsored the measure, said oversight of cage matches will be handled by the Missouri Department of Insurance, Financial Institutions, and Professional Registration, the latter of which covers the Office of Athletics.

“We’re not adding new rules to the fighting industry,” Gregory said. “All we're doing is ensuring current rules and regulations are being enforced.”

The state will issue permits for events and send inspectors to events, just like boxing, wrestling, and kickboxing competitions.

Gregory said the measure has received universal support locally.

“Promotors, businessmen, gym owners, current fighters, former fighters, everybody is on board and thought this was a good thing,” he said.

The state is expected to have the rules in place to begin regulating fights by August 28.

Looks like this is going through.

@PLUGO

07-18-2018, 12:55 PM

Banma Duoji grew up poor in a single-parent home in Tibet, where he thought he'd spend the rest of his life as an impoverished yak herder. Then he discovered Enbo Fight Club in Chengdu, China, which trains disadvantaged children from Tibet to be MMA fighters free of charge. The club's founder, Mr. Enbo, has become a father figure for Banma—teaching him discipline, helping him learn Chinese, and transforming him into one of the club's fiercest brawlers.

10553 (https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/intl-orphan-fighters-china-enbo-mma-club/59c94fa85b4e4bf763d16a34?playlist=5b1854c084461200 07f262df)

VICE followed Banma and his coach from the gym to a pro match, where the "Prince of Fighters" looked to maintain his impressive five-fight winning streak. (https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/intl-orphan-fighters-china-enbo-mma-club/59c94fa85b4e4bf763d16a34?playlist=5b1854c084461200 07f262df)

boxerbilly

07-22-2018, 03:01 PM

Bad idea parents !

boxerbilly

07-22-2018, 03:01 PM

Traditional minus the stupid. Better idea.

GeneChing

11-07-2019, 09:56 AM

SPORTS
Spokane MMA fight promoter explains decision to allow pre-teen girls to fight (https://www.krem.com/article/sports/spokane-mma-fight-promoter-explains-decision-to-allow-12-year-old-girls-to-fight/293-562e2e67-5272-44d5-a6ec-c7833bb9e3d2)
Fight Promoter Rick Little said at first, he was uncomfortable with the idea of two young girls fighting in his event but was convinced otherwise.
Author: Kaitlin Riordan
Published: 5:11 PM PDT November 1, 2019
Updated: 9:11 PM PDT November 2, 2019

SPOKANE, Wash. — An MMA fight scheduled for Conquest of the Cage at Northern Quest might have you do a double take.

Darina Glassburn, from Seattle, and Lol ‘Flower’ Papdatos, from Belgium, are both around the age of 12, weigh about 80 pounds and have been training to be fighters since they were about 3 years old.

The fight is scheduled for Nov. 15 at 7 p.m. at Northern Quest.

KREM 2 spoke to the promoter for the Conquest of the Cage fights about why he decided to allow these girls to participate in this event.

“At first it was a stiff no,” said fight promoter Rick Little.

Little trains MMA fighters in Spokane, helping fighters like Julianna Pena, Michael Chiseas and Sam Sicilia earn UFC contracts.

Little said at first, he was uncomfortable with the idea of two young girls fighting in his event but was convinced otherwise by the girls’ parents and their trainers.

Little said it gave him the “heebie-jeebies.”

Papadatos’ mother is an MMA fighter, Little said, and has been training with her mom her whole life.

“She can answer if her kids ready,” he said.

Little said Glassburn was trained by one of his good friends in Seattle and has always bragged that she was the next big prodigy in the sport. He said both of their trainers were adamant that they are “dangerous” fighters and that the match would be good for them.

Rick Little
This might be too controversial for many but too bad. If you seen these 2 mini monsters train then you would see they NEED to be under the lights competing! Your semi-main event Lola Papadatos will...

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/74573500_10218362683852383_3028139775484755968_o.j pg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_oc=AQmfHjXYe8WpozXluX9xdEEF_BLby_TL3JOdYRFXRgK CQ53aOW1sQatmhNQgkodUc8Q&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=21215e6908e5b94e1b1099e7a7699c54&oe=5E64564C

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Little explained that he’s not allowing this fight as a spectacle. He said both girls are the same size, have the same experience and are obsessed with the sport.

“I truly believe they are more skilled than anybody,” he said.

When asked if he found it to be appropriate for these children to participate in a MMA fight, he said he believes local fans who attend the Conquest of the Cage events respect the sport. He believes his events aren’t low budget and the athletes that fight in his matches are from “respectable gyms.”

Little said he believes MMA is safer than children’s football and soccer.

The fight will have the same rules as an adult amateur fight, Little said, with no knees or elbows to the face, just punching, kicking, leg locks, etc.

The girls will fight close to the main event. Little believes the fight will “steal the show” but if it goes wrong, he knows it will be on him.

Little said women have been some of his best students because they fight hard and with respect.

KREM reached out to Northern Quest for comment. The resort and casino said Excite Fight is producing the event and Little is the promoter who is the spokesperson for the fight.

An eye-catching promotion...?