DO vs JITSU

[SPJ]

This is inspired by martial spirits thread.

Japanese People like the do or the way.

Kan DO, Ju DO, Ai Ki Do, Kara Te Do, Bu DO,

Chinese like just call them techniques/skills or Ju Jitsu or Shu.

Wu Shu, Jian Shu, Dao Shu, Gun Shu, --

--

what do you call the stuff you do?

Do or jitsu.

:D

[SPJ]

It is a good idea to call do or the way.

the way of the sword, the way of martial, the way of empty hand, the way of the fist and kick (Tae Kwan Do)

but what is the way?

meaning every thing you do or think?

what is your defintion of the way or the do.

the place you do your DO

would be Do jang, Do Jo?

:D

[SPJ]

Would it not be just fighting techniques you do?

then just call them Wu Shu, so and so shu.

no philosophy or ethics or whatever attached.

what do you think?

:D

[SPJ]

in the end, fighting is just fighting.

or there is more?

:confused:

[rogue]

what do you call the stuff you do?

We just call it, stuff.

[Mel]

Now that I "do" Shotokan, I call it karatedo. The way of empty hand, I suppose. As for what "the way" is, hmmm.... Everything you do or think? Possibly. Funakoshi says, "True karate is this: That in daily life one's mind and body be trained and developed in a spirit of humility, and that in critical times, one be devoted utterly to the cause of justice." I think that is a good way to think of "the way."

[TenTigers]

I train and teach Martial Arts as a fighting art. But to me, it is more than that. It has become a way of life. In studying TCMA, other doors have opened, and one thing touches upon another. So, I got interested in meditation, ch'i-gung, occult,fitness, philosophy, Chinese culture, language, cooking,women, music, literature, art, etc. When I teach, I ask my students to "take their Gung-Fu with them,.don't leave it at the door and visit it twice a week." The lessons, the life lessons, that come with enduring training. all enter into the picture.

So is it jutsu, or do?

[monji112000]

Would it not be just fighting techniques you do?

then just call them Wu Shu, so and so shu.

no philosophy or ethics or whatever attached.

what do you think?

:D

once you take philosophy , ethics ect... out of martial arts to me you are losing most of what makes it worth dedicating your life for. JMO

I have great respect for Renzo, I have always liked his opinions on MA.
2:50.. more philosophy on those mats then any ivy league school in America..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdK8rvESWJw&feature=related

[mantis108]

I have always called my stuff Kung Fu. I have always opposed to the modern Wushu BS crap. Shu in Chinese is the application of principles. Learning the application of principles is just superficial. BTW, modern WuShu don't even follows principles of traditional martial arts. Anyway, I shared the following on the mantis board here:


I believe there are different levels of understanding of a said art. There are also different modes of understanding. I won't bore you with the details but in reality it is about the maturity of an artist and his ability to transcendent levels and modes of understanding with respect to mind, body and spirit.

Learning can happen anywhere, anytime, with just about anyone, or anything. Heck, these days you can learn anything from books, mags, and video the "old fashion way" or make use of the internet the modern way. Having said that, interaction with a teacher is important if you are indeed looking for traditional Kung Fu (note that I didn't say martial arts) whatever art that may be. Kung Fu is mastery of life. It is transcending martial discipline into the art of living, of which a young Bruce Lee would tell us that to live is to die. Such is a life style. A style is subjective; whereas there is a system there is objectivity. But objectivity can not be regarded as creed. When objectivity becomes creed, you will have organized despair in martial arts. To many, mantis catches cicada is an image, or a fact of life which is not less than any creed. But it is also a great art of nature. Great art imitates life. However, I believe divine art inspires life. So there it is on that faithful day, Wang Lang saw that divine spark within himself and understood the illusion of creed. So he founded Tanglangquan. And that light has been passing down through a long line of truly inspirational teachers that each individually understood the meaning of life. So the question really is are you looking for the creed without or are you looking for the spark within?

Mantis108

[golden arhat]

what about jiu jutsu

nin jutsu, naginata jutsu, iai-jutsu, kenjutsu etc
those all japanese martial arts

i say i treat martial arts as away of life, to develop the chivalrous warrior mentality
and when and wehn not to use my skills.
but i dont treat it as if it holds the answer to how to live my life that comes from friends family religion the law society and your own personal morality

some people treat martial arts as a religion and you often find that they lack the "jutsu" aswell


a good balance is necessary

[Vash]

Martial skill is just another aspect of my supreme sexiness.

[SevenStar]

jutsu denotes the classic styles used during times of war, I believe prior to the meiji restoration. every style to come about since then is a do.

someone asked about jiu jitsu, it is brazilian, so the name doesn't follow the convention.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Jiu Jitsu is not Brazilian. It is Japanese. Brazilian JJ was taught to Gracie by a Japanese man and he altered it to suit his needs in developing it into a sport like Judo and such. I consider the Brazilian version to be very inferior to the true Japanese Jiu Jitsu. It was developed into a ring fighting system, and it does not have a full range of offensive and defensive moves.
I have a high level of skill in Jap JiuJitsu as well as a form of Gung Fu. I simply call it jujitsu and gung fu. I guess I have somewhat intergrated the two in some ways, and I do not personally teach the Chinese or the Japanese terminologies as I find that they are completely un-necessary in order to learn the concepts. Even in Asian American communities the people seldom speak their native language fluently and even then, you have say Chinese, which comes from all over China. There are literally hundreds of different dialects and all these are spoken. An attempt to convey concepts in any dialect would cause absolute chaos. What kills me is when people try talking in mediphores or whatever. Saying stuff that makes no sense at all.

Chiang

[brothernumber9]

I like how MP just calls it

"The Jits!"

[golden arhat]

Jiu Jitsu is not Brazilian. It is Japanese. Brazilian JJ was taught to Gracie by a Japanese man and he altered it to suit his needs in developing it into a sport like Judo and such. I consider the Brazilian version to be very inferior to the true Japanese Jiu Jitsu. It was developed into a ring fighting system, and it does not have a full range of offensive and defensive moves.
I have a high level of skill in Jap JiuJitsu as well as a form of Gung Fu. I simply call it jujitsu and gung fu. I guess I have somewhat intergrated the two in some ways, and I do not personally teach the Chinese or the Japanese terminologies as I find that they are completely un-necessary in order to learn the concepts. Even in Asian American communities the people seldom speak their native language fluently and even then, you have say Chinese, which comes from all over China. There are literally hundreds of different dialects and all these are spoken. An attempt to convey concepts in any dialect would cause absolute chaos. What kills me is when people try talking in mediphores or whatever. Saying stuff that makes no sense at all.

Chiang

he knows about BJJ there is no need to explain

[monji112000]

Jiu Jitsu is not Brazilian. It is Japanese. Brazilian JJ was taught to Gracie by a Japanese man and he altered it to suit his needs in developing it into a sport like Judo and such.


its common knowledge that the Gracies learned an older "style" of Judo. They focuses on aspects that were not "popular" as Judo became more "sport". What you call JJ(Japaneses) can mean many different things and in a very loose definition you could consider old school Judo part of Japanese JJ. I wouldn't it shows that you have very little understanding in how Judo was founded and its evolution to sport. BJJ isn't JJJ and although some submissions are similar... I'm sure you can name a "version" of JJJ that going to seem like BJJ... :rolleyes:
although judo has its roots in JJJ, just like BJJ is mostly old school Judo you can't deny the unique characteristics and advances each has made. Although modern Judo is a sport, and in some ways watered down (no offense to judo guys.) Its still "alive" and russian Judo (sambo) includes striking and allot of ground skills.




I consider the Brazilian version to be very inferior to the true Japanese Jiu Jitsu. what one person calls "BJJ" another person calls GJJ, while another person calls grappling. I am very interested in seeing a real JJJ school. I would love to be enlightened.. really I have never heard of any JJJ doing randori on the same level as BJJ (grappling) schools and not even as much as Judo schools. Randori is the most important aspect to any martial art training. You would see allot less wrist locks if JJJ would doing 60% full randori training...
JMO


It was developed into a ring fighting system, and it does not have a full range of offensive and defensive moves.
that all depends on what you call defensive and offensive. It also depends on what you mean by BJJ. I would consider submissions offensive and sweeps, position, takedowns ect.. as pretty good defensive. If you can show me real JJJ doing all those defensive techniques.. then maybe I'll take a class at that school.. I can always learn something new.



I have a high level of skill in Jap JiuJitsu as well as a form of Gung Fu. I simply call it jujitsu and gung fu. I guess I have somewhat intergrated the two in some ways, and I do not personally teach the Chinese or the Japanese terminologies as I find that they are completely un-necessary in order to learn the concepts. Even in Asian American communities the people seldom speak their native language fluently and even then, you have say Chinese, which comes from all over China. There are literally hundreds of different dialects and all these are spoken. An attempt to convey concepts in any dialect would cause absolute chaos. What kills me is when people try talking in mediphores or whatever. Saying stuff that makes no sense at all.

Chiang
its great that you are skilled in two arts. If you don't mind me asking (I don't care if you do :P) does your JJJ daily training include randori?

I think you fail to take into account modern grappling , which to many people is still called BJJ. Catch or CSW is a amazing grappling art also, often mixed with BJJ ... catch shares allot with old school judo too.
so are you telling me that you can show me basically everything in modern grappling in JJJ?
no karate style striking going on so yes that is missing in modern grappling. :P