Wing Chun vs Karate/TKD

[HardWork8]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPHbUrKk_ds&feature=related

This YouTube video clip show a Wing Chun exponent by the name of Joe Lee fighting in a Karate/TKD tournament.

It is interesting to see his effectiveness in the closer ranges.

According to the poster the Wing Chunner was not awarded any points for connecting with numerous head shots.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Reminds me a little of some sparring tournaments I put two of my students in back in the early 90's....one student won the first tournament (he fought two different karate guys doing the same things the karate guy in this vid did)....but my second student (at a different karate-run tournament) lost even though he was scoring headshots (like the guy in the vid).

[anerlich]

A lot of weird stuff goes on at point and semi-contact tournaments. Points aren't awarded for shots which the ref thinks have "no power".

The karate guy (who I assume was in the black jacket, it wasn't easy to tell who was the WC guy straight off) basically had no guard and crap defence, so its hardly surprising the other guy got in some shots in close. really.

A WC training bud of mine came third in a state level karate points tournament recently. She's done well in kyokushin contact tournaments as well (her husband is a four time Aussie Kyokushin champ).

[HardWork8]

A lot of weird stuff goes on at point and semi-contact tournaments. Points aren't awarded for shots which the ref thinks have "no power".
Or shots that come from an "outsider", as was the case in this this clip.


The karate guy (who I assume was in the black jacket, it wasn't easy to tell who was the WC guy straight off)
Well all fighting looks like kickboxing doensn't it ;) :D



basically had no guard and crap defence, so its hardly surprising the other guy got in some shots in close. really.

Unfortunately a lot of karate guys fight like that nowadays as this way of fighting works ok in the longer ranges but falls apart when they are closed in.


A WC training bud of mine came third in a state level karate points tournament recently. She's done well in kyokushin contact tournaments as well (her husband is a four time Aussie Kyokushin champ).

It is all in the training, isn't it;) :D.

[HardWork8]

Here is a type of karate fighting that is more suitable for the Wing Chun approach:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_zmL6BRCOA&feature=related

This the Japanese Selfdefense polices (Military) version of Shotokan karate that will give Kyokushinkai and its derivatives a run for their money.

This type of contact approach would be better suited for Wing Chun, perhaps with a few changes.

Wing Chunners fighting these type of fighters would also help better for us to see the stylistic distinctions inside a more realistic and functional scenario.

[punchdrunk]

that shotokan police sparring was not that good, we already have chunners leaning their heads back with their arms extended trying desperately to slap eachother. And the bloody lip is not a sign of realism, that happens at every school frequently. plus they are focused on one punch knock outs, without the KO?? If you want realism or better training ideas look somewhere else.

[HardWork8]

that shotokan police sparring was not that good, we already have chunners leaning their heads back with their arms extended trying desperately to slap eachother. And the bloody lip is not a sign of realism, that happens at every school frequently. plus they are focused on one punch knock outs, without the KO?? If you want realism or better training ideas look somewhere else.

You missed the whole point of my post!

HW8

PS. I don't agree with your points either!

[SAAMAG]

Here is a type of karate fighting that is more suitable for the Wing Chun approach:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_zmL6BRCOA&feature=related

This the Japanese Selfdefense polices (Military) version of Shotokan karate that will give Kyokushinkai and its derivatives a run for their money.

This type of contact approach would be better suited for Wing Chun, perhaps with a few changes.

Wing Chunners fighting these type of fighters would also help better for us to see the stylistic distinctions inside a more realistic and functional scenario.

Not sure would you mean by this type of fighting being more suitable for the wing chun approach....but I liked the video clip. I thought that it was a very fresh version of karate. I liked the rubber band training to aid in explosive entering. I liked the intensity of the training as well. Karate always looks powerful no matter what you do. Good stuff.

ONLY thing I don't care for is holding the guard down by the waist. Stupid move if you ask me. That's why the one fella kept getting punched in the face.

[Graychuan]

Here is a type of karate fighting that is more suitable for the Wing Chun approach:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_zmL6BRCOA&feature=related

This the Japanese Selfdefense polices (Military) version of Shotokan karate that will give Kyokushinkai and its derivatives a run for their money.

This type of contact approach would be better suited for Wing Chun, perhaps with a few changes.

Wing Chunners fighting these type of fighters would also help better for us to see the stylistic distinctions inside a more realistic and functional scenario.


1. Very good structure and maintained it under pressure.
2. kicks were below the waist(except for a couple but those were the peeps getting the ==== kicked out of them.
3. Stances not as wide and impractical as some traditional Japanese arts are usually portrayed.
4. Training was intense...even more so than a lot of Wing Chun that I have seen(The snap kick to the family jewels was classic. Then he still went in and crushed him sommore.) No 'Dojo Tigers' here.
5. Striking, kicks(practical ones), locks, throws = well rounded especially for a predominantly stand up art(An assumption as I dont think I saw any ground but hey, it didnt look like those guys needed it).

Im in complete agreement with you, HW8. Thanks for that post.

[couch]

Best was at 1:50. The Chunner had his back straight away. That's what all that facing and forward energy does for ya!

Some good and bad. Good on him for getting in there, though.

Best,
K

[HardWork8]

Not sure would you mean by this type of fighting being more suitable for the wing chun approach....
What I meant was that Wing Chunners can do a more realistic kind of sparring and try to use more of the techniques that characterize this art (without killing each other of course, and not from day one of training, either).

We must also remember that these shotokan guys in the video are essentially military officers and they do what they do in Japan and not here in the west when a sensei or sifu may be sued if a student twists his ankle.



but I liked the video clip. I thought that it was a very fresh version of karate. I liked the rubber band training to aid in explosive entering. I liked the intensity of the training as well. Karate always looks powerful no matter what you do. Good stuff.

I have always had a soft spot for Shotokan even though most of its approach goes against everything I have learnt in Wing Chun and the style I am currently learning. It just has a dynamic feel to it.


ONLY thing I don't care for is holding the guard down by the waist. Stupid move if you ask me. That's why the one fella kept getting punched in the face.

By another fella who had his guard down as well. It is their style. I suppose the traditional Wing Chun guard is also rather low if you close your hands into a fist but some people make it work for them.

These guys use their art in fighting effectively without losing the art's essence. When one watches them then one knows that it is KARATE and even SHOTOKAN! It does not look like kickboxing or any other art.

The training approach dictates the art's effectiveness. The same is true for Wing Chun as well as other kung fu styles as well.

[HardWork8]

1. Very good structure and maintained it under pressure.

That is all in their training. They are 110% focused on their Shotokan Karate and their approach is practical. Without their distinct structure they would not be doing karate anymore. The same is true for Wing Chun and other Kung fu styles.


2. kicks were below the waist(except for a couple but those were the peeps getting the ==== kicked out of them.
Parallels with Wing Chun perhaps? :)


3. Stances not as wide and impractical as some traditional Japanese arts are usually portrayed.
Exactly. They balance mobility and power. I do suspect however that in their kihon training they may sometimes use wider stances just to train their legs and their rooting just like some Shotokan schools I have come across.


4. Training was intense...even more so than a lot of Wing Chun that I have seen
Agreed. They seem to have a do or die approach in their training and that is something that is unfortunately missing from a lot of TMA schools nowadays.



(The snap kick to the family jewels was classic. Then he still went in and crushed him sommore.) No 'Dojo Tigers' here.

Did you see what looked like an open hand strike to the throat on 3.24? No kickboxing there either.


5. Striking, kicks(practical ones), locks, throws = well rounded especially for a predominantly stand up art(An assumption as I dont think I saw any ground but hey, it didnt look like those guys needed it).

Well the better the striking skills the less one will need the groundfighting ones. And before the Gracie Groupies jump on my head, this is not to say that one does not need groundfighting skills.


Im in complete agreement with you, HW8. Thanks for that post.

Thanks Graychuan. I am glad that you liked the clip and even gladder to see that someone agrees with me here in this site.:)

[Liddel]

I though the structure was fairly poor in the first vid posted.
Im sick of the static Bi Jong Pose you can see people use over and over which is limited even more in this vid cause of the angle of his torso.

This IMO is what leads him to have poor balance and at times in the vid make him turn away from his opponent giving his back.

I use Bi Jong but im moving moving moving...the hands are never left static same height same distance away from my body untill someone moves.

Keep em guessing i say.

For the orthodox be unorthodox and vice versa :)

DREW