Piano Fingers

[LSWCTN1]

i have what are commonly refered to as 'piano fingers' or 'artists fingers' 'musicians fingers' etc

it means when i place my hand flat on a table my fingers curl upwards naturally

it makes practising finger striking extremely painful, as my figers get jarred backwards

the only suggestion my instructor (my Dad) has is to use what he calls 'bears paw' not sure of the cantonese name (if your unsure its the middle knuckles)

he suggested that i ask on here for other peoples advice on what to do, as i feel that i'm losing an inch and a half by using the bears paw, and there must be somesort of answer to it as im sure im not the only one that has ever had this problem

please offer any advice you can - it will be much appreciated!

[stonecrusher69]

Try bending at the second joint a little. See is that works.

[Graychuan]

:eek: Stop doing finger jabs at all. Bil Gee is about darting for bridging and distracting...not putting your fingers through soda cans. If you are doing what I think you are...your pain will just get worse.

[Mr Punch]

Chris is right.

Although many lines of course use biu sao as a thrusting finger attack as opposed to how he's describing it, and yours seems to, there are many other tools and there's no reason to damage your body if you're physiologically incapable of doing it.

I would think that nobody really used hard finger strikes without some kind of associated conditioning training. I don't do any conditioning so I don't use finger strikes.

How's the bear paw going? That can be good, but again, can be dangerous.

And with respect, if your father is insisting that you train the fingers, maybe you're too close to your teacher, and you should find someone else.

[LSWCTN1]

Chris is right.

Although many lines of course use biu sao as a thrusting finger attack as opposed to how he's describing it, and yours seems to, there are many other tools and there's no reason to damage your body if you're physiologically incapable of doing it.

I would think that nobody really used hard finger strikes without some kind of associated conditioning training. I don't do any conditioning so I don't use finger strikes.

How's the bear paw going? That can be good, but again, can be dangerous.

And with respect, if your father is insisting that you train the fingers, maybe you're too close to your teacher, and you should find someone else.

this is something that crops up a lot - he brings up the fact that he never taught me to drive for a specific reason - there is perhaps more 'respect' in an outsider instructing you, however i like training with him as i know that he invests so much time in making sure that i get it absolutely right, much more time than any of his other students.

bears paw works fine for me, but i'd just like to learn the system as it is meant to be taught, thats why i asked. In all honesty its me that is insisting that he teaches me the way he was was taught (as he does ordinarily), and not visa-versa

i understand the argument about finding another sifu - its just IMO, you train the hardest when you do it for someone else, and i want to make my Dad proud by being the best i can be. (plus its free, and i can train 1:1 8 hours a week plus group sessions too - couldnt afford that ordinarily!)

just starting the conditioning at present and it aches (usually do this by myself) so i was wondering if there was anybody that had experianced the same thing, and if they had any advice

cheers

David

[CFT]

the only suggestion my instructor (my Dad) has is to use what he calls 'bears paw' not sure of the cantonese name (if your unsure its the middle knuckles)Sounds like Choy Lee Fut's "pow choy".

How are you conditioning them at the moment? Thrusting into sand or into bags?
Have you tried cupping your palm slightly?

[LoneTiger108]

i have what are commonly refered to as 'piano fingers' or 'artists fingers' 'musicians fingers' etc

it means when i place my hand flat on a table my fingers curl upwards naturally

it makes practising finger striking extremely painful, as my figers get jarred backwards...

...please offer any advice you can - it will be much appreciated!

If you have musicians fingers, have you tried playing the guitar??

I've met some players whose fingers were more 'ready' for the type of drilling you mention who simply just played guitar all day!! :D It's all in your breathing, relaxation and precision ime. Personally I found the piano easier!!

This also trains how to utilise the 'nail', and how biu jee should be taught imo (peaks) if what you're concentrating on at this point are finger strikes.

Not that I know anything about it of course!

[Lee Chiang Po]

Using the finger stab techniques require that you train your hands. No one can do it without actually training it. First your hands must be trained to focus stability of the hand during a strike, and then it has to have a way of collapsing without hyperextending the digits.
I have 2 ways of doing it myself. I can strike you with all my strength using my fingertips. Firstly, you strike in a whipping manner. You strike with the hand held at a slight angle so that as you apply force the hand turns slightly to let the hand bend to one side, which absorbes the collapse without applying it to the fingers. Secondly, I will cup my fingers slightly so that the fingers sort of bow. It looks as if it is going to be a palm strike, but at the point of impact the hand curves downward into a hard dig.
The best way to condition the hand is to get yourself a 5 gallon paint bucket full of play sand. You stab your hands, one after another, back and forth, into the sand. In the beginning you will find that the fingers will split and go into every direction. Eventually the hand itself will start focusing it's stability by aligning the bones of the hand in a perfect straight line so that it will not bend or split on you. All your force will be in a straight line.
You do not simply draw back and stab at someone. You will more than likely injure your own self rather than the opponent. Most strikes should be from mere inches and you do not flex the hand until the point of impact. You apply chi at that point. It is also best to stay off hard spots like skulls and bones.

[Graychuan]

Would this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edmLBMpg1QY)break his fingers? lol

Who knows?

[Lucas]

have you looked into the medical profession. See if there are any types of documented physical therapy that helps with your specific condition.

I'm having a bit of trouble picturing exactly what your situation is.


is it that you have problems straightening your fingers even? Is it a strain to simply hold a straight palm?

If so there may be people who have studied and worked with others in your situation.

[Lucas]

also like CTF said, you can do finger strikes with a slight cupping to your hand and fingers.

[LSWCTN1]

hi every one, thanks for the help offered so far...

this is very simmilar to what i have http://www.springtimesong.com/ if you look the way her fingers curl up at the end then its pretty much the same.

its not a medical condition and it doesnt hurt at all, however i have always been of the mindset (rightly or wrongly) that if my hand was cupped then the pressure when contact is made would not be transferred through my arm, but rather much of it would leave at the knuckle?

I am by no means any sort of expert at wing chun (or any particular part of it!) so that is why i am here asking for other peoples advice!

thanks

David

[Iron-Man]

the only suggestion my instructor (my Dad) has is to use what he calls 'bears paw' not sure of the cantonese name (if your unsure its the middle knuckles)


I think your Dad's a clever guy. Why anyone would want to throw out straight finger strikes in a fight always amazes me, i have had my fingers snapped back many a times even in the claw position. I appreciate your suppose to throw your Bil at an angle but there is nothing to say that even if you miss the arms that your fingers would connect to anything soft unless the guys eyes were the size of tennis balls !


Unless the eyes were just inches from my fingers then i would never even dream of opening my fingers up. The way i was taught to strike with fingers was that if my strike had missed the head instead of pulling it back to re-load one could open the fist to a claw and then wipe the fingers over the opponents face to gouge the eyes. Other than that all direct strikes to the eyes are done using the phoenix eye fist.

If you were holding a pair of butterfly knives then i would say go ahead mate, have fun ! Also loosing an inch or so of reach should not matter unless you were just scoring for points, you should train to enter within punching range unless you intend to poke the guy to submission ! If your arms cant reach you might want to use your kicks.


Off course i maybe wrong as i am not an Bil Jee expert so i'll probably hear from a few 'iron finger' fighters who do throw out straight fingers.