Southern mantis-a few questions

[mantis--fist]

I was thinking of joining a southern mantis school and was hoping someone could answer a few questions. im new to this forum and to kung fu so i dont know much about the style

first of all ive read that its a no-nonsense style in which you can become proficient in self defence in only a few months. is this true?

what are the differences between chu gar, chow gar and jook lum praying mantis?

how does it compare to other southern in-fighting arts such as wing chun and white eyebrow?

[TenTigers]

"first of all ive read that its a no-nonsense style in which you can become proficient in self defence in only a few months. is this true?"

it all depends on who is teaching it, and his curriculum. In many schools there is great emphasis on drilling stepping,striking, and coordinating the two. Then there is training in the basic form to teach stance, breathing, structure and power, as well as hei-gung. After that, two man hands on reaction drills, and your skill develops from there. It's a process. If you start right off with reaction and fighting drills before developing proper structure, you tend to develop bad habits, which will ultimately have to be corrected. This will take twice as long as it did to develop them, so patience is key. There are no quick fixes. Great skill requires time and effort.
Chow-Gar, Chu-Gar, Jook-Lum all share commonalities. They are all fast, aggressive,down your throat styles that strike with pinpoint accuracy to vital areas with astonishing speed and power. Some mainland styles of Wing Chun, as well as Fukien Bak Hok seem related, and I personally, feel they all share common ancestory.

[Steeeve]

in fact

I have follow the correspondance course of jook lum by Roger H...long time ago
for learn some about this style ......just for personnal evolution ...we could not mastering by video but we could learn something with good background....Roger H is very good by the way ....

Jook lum seem more soft of chow gar....from what I saw from the England group in videos
but yes thats the same core

Steeve

[mantis--fist]

thanks ten tigers... that helps. I know of a few schools in london but im not sure which would be the most ideal. guess ill hav to take a few classes and see.

if anyone knows anything on london classes id appreciate the info

[LSWCTN1]

i asked a simmilar question tothis, and the most overwhelming reply i got was:

Go and see a 'Paul Whitrod' - he's supposed to be the business, and after researching him too i found out that he can supposedly use it very well

hope i have helped

[mantis--fist]

yeah I heard he was the UK representative..


what about Ip Chee Keung's school? the website is www.londonkungfu.com

[Wong Ying Home]

Paul Whitrod...he's the man - You won't be disappointed at all - Highly recommended

[Steeeve]

I agree with Wong ying

dont forget the pallahari payat and the kubri krabong

[mantis--fist]

thanks guys that helps... ill def check out paul whitrod but dont think ill be doing his indian and thai martial arts. wud prefer to concentrate on southern mantis.

does paul whitrod teach the complete system including the healing arts (dit dar etc)?

[Wong Ying Home]

Paul whitrod - Yes he teaches the complete system. Your best bet is if you now have more detailed questions about what he teaches, is to phone him and arrange a meeting.

[Steeeve]

Oh He also done good video for learning

Bussiness but good videos .....:D

Steeve

[Doc Stier]

The various Southern Praying Mantis Styles are 'soft<>hard' combination systems. Generally speaking, this implies the use of 'soft' yielding defensive techniques combined with comparatively 'hard' aggressive offensive techniques, both of which flow back and forth fluidly from one to the other as required in combat....not an easy thing to do for most guys initially.

The 'internal' aspects of Southern Praying Mantis include the use of specific Prenatal/Reverse Breathing methods, mental visualization techniques, and intrinsic energy intention>direction methods, producing excellent simultaneous defend and counterattack methods which use an opponent's personal physical assets, combat strategies, and fighting techniques against him in some of the most devastatingly fast and powerful close quarters in-fighting methods to be found anywhere! :cool:

My training experience has been solely in the Kwong-Sai Jook Lum Gee System, in which Masters like Lum Wing-Fai Sifu, Mark Gin-Foon Sifu, and Henry Poo Yee Sifu have been noted for their ability to combine soft, circular defensive neutralizations and redirections with simultaneous combinations of multiple point specific strikes, all performed with incredible speed and power that has to be felt to be believed! shocked. :eek:

Doc

[Doc Stier]

The Kwong-Sai Jook Lum Gee Tong Long Pai Southern Praying Mantis System is about one hundred and eighty years old. It was created by Sam Dart, a monk of the Jook Lum (Bamboo Forest) Buddhist Monastery in the province of Kwong-Sai, China.

Sam Dart taught his system to Lee Siem, a fellow monk of unusual intelligence and physical stamina. Under Sam Dart's skillful instruction, Lee mastered the intricate and subtle techniques of the system. Abbot Lee Siem was also known as Hung-Mui (red plum flower) in Southern China.

In the olden days, martial arts were taught mainly within the monasteries. Near the end of the Ching Dynasty many changes in customs occurred. Chung Yu Chang was one of the first laymen to learn the Praying Mantis system from Abbot Lee Siem at the Jook Lum Temple.

Upon returning to his native province of Wai Yung, Chung Yu-Chang opened a herbal medicine store with an associated Kung Fu school in the 1890's. The school was called 'Kwong Sai Jook Lum Gee Tong Lang Pai'.

This style became popular among the Hakka people of Wai Yung because of its deadly effectiveness. Chang was nicknamed 'Poison Snake', and was made the Head Teacher to the Hong Kong Hakka Ship and Dock Workers Association.

Even in the early 1900's, the self-defense aspects of many Kung Fu systems had been lost. For this reason, and also to attract students, Chang displayed a sign reading, "Broken Kung Fu Repaired".

Abbot Lee Siem came to Hong Kong in the 1920's to supervise the rebuilding of the Jook Lum Temple of Hong Kong (Kowloon today) and to build another temple in Macao. According to the late Grandmaster Lum Wing-Fay (1910-1992), Lee Siem was well over 100 years old. The old monk took one of Chung Yu-Chang's youngest students, Lum Wing Fay, as a traveling companion and aide. Lum Wing-Fay accompanied Lee Siem for seven years.

A third Kwong Sai Jook Lum school was opened in Kowloon in the 1930's. Sifu Lum, at the age of twenty, ran this school. He was nicknamed "Monkey" because of his small stature (5'2", 120 lbs.), agility, and fighting ability.

During the Sino-Japanese War in the late 1930's, Lee Siem returned to Hong Kong for a reunion with his students, Chung Yu-Chang and Lum Wing-Fay. To preserve the Jook Lum system, he ordered Lum Wing-Fay to leave Hong Kong because of the war. Hong Kong was soon overrun by the Japanese.

Subsequently, Sifu Lum came to New York City's Chinatown by way of England. In 1942, he started teaching in Chinatown's Hakka Association, the New York Hip Sing Tong at Pell Street. Later he taught at the New York Chinatown's Free Mason Association Athletic Club, also know as Hung Ching, in the late 1950's. He settled and taught his art of Kwong Sai Lung Fu San Jook Lum Gee Tong Long Pai to the club. The Kwong-Sai Jook Lum Gee Tong Long Pai was the largest kung fu school in NYC Chinatown by 1963. Lam Sifu continued teaching until 1969, and then retired in Taiwan.

Grandmaster Lam Sang passed away in 1991.

Doc

[Doc Stier]

The following link provides more information about the Kwong-Sai Jook Lum Gee Tong Long Pai System, and photos of Henry Poo Yee Sifu peforming this style:

http://www.ckfa.com/system.shtml

Doc

[TenTigers]

What's Up Doc?
Do you have the hanji for Sam Dart? I am wondering what the correct pronounciation is.

[Dale Dugas]

Sam=3

Dart=Same character for Da in Da Mo/Dart Mor

三達

[TenTigers]

Thanx, DD. What was your source for the chinese characters for Sam Dot?
What written material is there on this, and by whom? The reason I say this as there are many interpetations when one hears a word or name spoken rather than written. I'm just fishin' around, looking for clues at the scene of the crime, so to speak. Connecting the dots.;)

[Doc Stier]

The following link provides the info you are looking for:

http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=chardict&cdcanoce=1&cdqchi=%E4%B8%89%E9%81%94+&cddmtm=1&cddytm=1

Doc

[Dale Dugas]

Thanx, DD. What was your source for the chinese characters for Sam Dot?
What written material is there on this, and by whom? The reason I say this as there are many interpetations when one hears a word or name spoken rather than written. I'm just fishin' around, looking for clues at the scene of the crime, so to speak. Connecting the dots.;)

The source is the sun toi with its style kuen kit that Shifu Donald Wong who was one of the last disciples of Lum Sang Shifu in NYC, had up in his school a few years ago.

I remember the characters. I am lucky that I can read and write Hanzi, though I cannot speak Chinese very well.

Doc has a much better link with a great database.

[TenTigers]

Yes,you are right! (some things are right in front of your nose and you never see them-doh!) Thanx, Guys.

I was looking for a possible connection between Sam Dot and Sam Duhk,(possibly different pronounciations of the same name) both contributing to short bridge techniques within the Nam P'ai.

[Sydney_Mantis]

I train the Si Tai Gung (Great Grandmaster) Dr Nat Yuen lineage of Chow Gar SPM in Australia and its very intense.

[jo]

Finally the light begins to shine! :)

Lum Wing Fay took three styles and made them into his own.

Jook Lum is the base, can you see which are the two flavorings that make the soup complete?

- jo

[kismet]

Hey mantis--fist,

There are a few schools, classes in london and outside london. You can find most of the details online pretty easily. Definately highly recommend Sifu Whitrod but its upto you to go down, try the classes and see what you like.

Your welcome to PM me for any info.

thanks

[Steeeve]

For those interest

http://www.chugarmantis.com/

http://www.bambootemple.com/

http://www.chinamantis.com/


Steeeve;)

[jo]

For those interest

http://www.chugarmantis.com/

http://www.bambootemple.com/

http://www.chinamantis.com/


Steeeve;)


CAVEAT EMPTOR.

- jo

[Steeeve]

Jo

Could U translate that in french

caveat emptor....cav eat emp tor ...cave at empt or....what the f... thats mean ;)

sound no good ... ha good english word play ....:D

money for nothing .....sex is free....

Steeve

[Mano Mano]

Caveat emptor is Latin, I think its M&#233;fiez-vous acheteur, buyer beware.

[Steeeve]

Ok Thank Mano mano

I forget my latin ....;)

Thats a good warning

[TheSwedishChef]

You people who can just decide whether or not to study SPM sicken me with envy. Seattle is a wasteland devoid of Hakka! :(