imitating nature.

[uki]

the history of martial arts goes something like this... man needs to survive, man imitates nature, man becomes a master of imitating nature, master teaches another person, this person becomes a student to the master. the question is... why bother learning from a master, when you can simply learn it from imitating nature?:)

[SanHeChuan]

Because It didn't happen that way.

We are all standing on the backs of the people who came before us. The guys being inspired by nature already knew how to fight, they just added to their knowledge.

No one walked into the woods knowing nothing and walked out a master of anything.

Now if you watch the discovery channel and see some universal principal that has so far escaped everyone else, you could add that to your kung fu or whatever.

You can create a new style but it's foundation will not be of your own making but of all the arts you've already studied.

[Lucas]

is it imitating nature? or returning to nature?

[The Willow Sword]

Although i dont believe it happened that way verbatim. Maybe for the Shaolin Monks it did. The earliest known recordings of "martial arts" training comes from Africa and it would seem that wrestling and grappling was the first to be developed as a fighting "method". I tend to go on Kubriks version of it all in 2001 a space odyssey where the primate bashes another with a bone and things go from there.

Peace,TWS

[mantis108]

Although i dont believe it happened that way verbatim. Maybe for the Shaolin Monks it did. The earliest known recordings of "martial arts" training comes from Africa and it would seem that wrestling and grappling was the first to be developed as a fighting "method". I tend to go on Kubriks version of it all in 2001 a space odyssey where the primate bashes another with a bone and things go from there.

Peace,TWS

The example of the primate a la 2001 a space odyssey is not "imitating" nature, rather it is an "inspiration" of a "natural" kind. The primate in question actually displayed an important attribute (thinking) and function (understanding)
of the mind. The mind in this case is "active" instead of being passive. The message in this movie segment is that the mind of the individual primate (Adam so to speak) is somehow activated by a "supernatural" phenomenon - the presence of the black monolith, which could also be a symbolism of concentration of the mind. Yes, there is a religious undertone but it is nonetheless good food for thoughts. In some way, you could say this is not dissimilar to the Hindu epochal transformation myth - churning of the milk ocean at the beginning of time.

Mantis108

[uki]

is it imitating nature? or returning to nature?ah-ha... now that depends on the person... by saying we are returning to nature, it is implying that we were disconnected from it; by imitating nature, we are one with it.
some have to return in order to imitate.

[Lucas]

touche
these are not the words you are looking for

[uki]

here's an interesting read on the wonders of nature... http://www.world-mysteries.com/newgw/sci_blueprint1.htm

[pdf108]

i will introduce a good wudang taoist kungfu website, you will know a lot of martial arts about wudang, also you can see a lot of wudang photos.

http://www.daoistkungfu.com

http://www.wudangkungfu.de

[uki]

i will introduce a good wudang taoist kungfu website, you will know a lot of martial arts about wudang, also you can see a lot of wudang photos.

http://www.daoistkungfu.com

http://www.wudangkungfu.de
holy hell. you just don't give up do you... is registration slow? wudang kung fu... woopie-do. more chinese communist government paid actors making a buck on humanities idocracy towards the martial arts.

[B-Rad]

the history of martial arts goes something like this... man needs to survive, man imitates nature, man becomes a master of imitating nature, master teaches another person, this person becomes a student to the master. the question is... why bother learning from a master, when you can simply learn it from imitating nature?

Or, man wants sexy cave-babe, other man wants sexy cave-babe, they fight over sexy cave babe and winner becomes cave bigshot with own little gang of other guys who think he's a bigshot. Eventually, somewhere down the line, one of these gang leaders decides to combine his fighting stuff with nature worship and we get martial dances based off of bugs, tigers, etc. Lots of things are combined with lots of other exercises, religion, and other things and we end up where we are today :p

[uki]

Or, man wants sexy cave-babe, other man wants sexy cave-babe, they fight over sexy cave babe and winner becomes cave bigshot with own little gang of other guys who think he's a bigshot. Eventually, somewhere down the line, one of these gang leaders decides to combine his fighting stuff with nature worship and we get martial dances based off of bugs, tigers, etc. Lots of things are combined with lots of other exercises, religion, and other things and we end up where we are today :pwanting the sexy cave babe qualifies as survival... :)

[Lucas]

Heres a pretty intersting read.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060922583/bookstorenow600-20

[Mr Punch]

ah-ha... now that depends on the person... by saying we are returning to nature, it is implying that we were disconnected from it; by imitating nature, we are one with it.
some have to return in order to imitate.You're not part of nature by imitating it. Your distinction between why 'returning to nature' and 'copying nature' are different in degree of disconnection is unclear.

But back to your original idea: If a caveman hits another caveman to get a cavebabe (or whatever reason) he's not imitating nature - it's part of his nature.

Violence is part of human nature. The idea that people really copied animals to improve their fighting suggests they couldn't fight in the first place leading to the vast quantity of substandard and frankly silly animal forms nowadays, or that they were trying to rationalize their animalistic and violent nature to themselves by relating it to 'foreign' (ie non-human) nature and codifying it.

Some people are natural fighters without any training (most of us are to some degree, although in some the flight/freeze response is as strong as the fight one admittedly), and if our backs are against the wall we'll resort to natural animal response. Some of us are too 'humanised' or civilised and would have to dig deeper to get that animal reaction to come out. And if our training is relevant, simple and effective (ie trained against people who as near as possible are trying to take our heads off) the most we can do is hope that one or two of our trained responses come to the top if we're ever unfortunate enough to be in a real kill or be killed situation.

The whole idea that we should be imitating nature is silly. It is denying that we are part of nature and it is part of us: the fight, the flight, even separate responses like guarding, flinching and clinching.

[SPJ]

capturing the essence or spirits of things around us.

1. water, if we yield and go the easiest route or least resistence, etc etc, Tai chi.

2. tiger ferocity, jumping on prey, tiger claws--

leopard sneeky, obervant, fast,

snake devious, circuitous, direct and fatal single strike to the weakest point--

---

3. 5 elements, metal, fire, --

4. yin and yang

---

:D

[Mel]

Interesting discussion. I wish I could add something more intriguing than what Mr. Punch and SPJ have, but they have articulated quite skillfully what I could not.

[uki]

Violence is part of human nature.i prefer to call it destruction... opposite of creation.


The idea that people really copied animals to improve their fighting suggests they couldn't fight in the first place leading to the vast quantity of substandard and frankly silly animal forms nowadays, or that they were trying to rationalize their animalistic and violent nature to themselves by relating it to 'foreign' (ie non-human) nature and codifying it.actually it is an art form of expressing the object in question(this case animals) and using it as a meditation to find peace of mind... adapting fighting characteristics of the animal for human usage was merely a byproduct of an advancing mind(much like computer upgrades).



The whole idea that we should be imitating nature is silly.then you should be doing it more... as silliness promotes laughter, and laughter is truly the best medicine...