Biu gee

[Hitman]

Dear all,

Is it possible for someone to tell me what is the purpose of having one hand in front of you and then flick your wrist three times in the last section of biu gee?



Thank you very much

Hitman

[k gledhill]

last section ? what lineage are you following for clarification of methods ?

[couch]

Dear all,

Is it possible for someone to tell me what is the purpose of having one hand in front of you and then flick your wrist three times in the last section of biu gee?



Thank you very much

Hitman

In the BJ I perform, there is a Fok Sau with a "flick of the wrist" three times...is this the motion you speak of?

[Hitman]

Dear all,

In the BJ I perform, there is a Fok Sau with a "flick of the wrist" three times...is this the motion you speak of?


I was looking at several different wing chun books and some of them showed the "flicking the wrist three time". I have forgotten the titles of those books. I am not sure the name of this movement as the authors did not mentioned it, therefore, it could be fok sau. The movement was to flick your wrist up and down several times.


Thank you
Hitman

[couch]

Dear all,

In the BJ I perform, there is a Fok Sau with a "flick of the wrist" three times...is this the motion you speak of?


I was looking at several different wing chun books and some of them showed the "flicking the wrist three time". I have forgotten the titles of those books. I am not sure the name of this movement as the authors did not mentioned it, therefore, it could be fok sau. The movement was to flick your wrist up and down several times.


Thank you
Hitman

Well..this is my take on the whole thing! :) The movement that precedes the 'high-powered Huen Sau' is generally either a Fok or a Jum, etc.

SNT and CK are all about the elbow. Elbow, elbow and elbow. The BJ is IMO about three things primarily. First is about getting or 'cutting' back to the centre, second is about Ging or relaxed energy, and third is about wrist (instead of elbow).

The 'flicking' is actually (the way I do it) a Huen Sau with a real good flick of the fingers at the end. This helps with wrist energy and also with building Ging into the motion. The reason it looks like it's going up and down is because after the flick, I perform a Fok Sau at the end...making a small circle. If you're following a book, it's likely that the full motion is being missed.

All the best,
Kenton Sefcik

[Lee Chiang Po]

Huen Sao, jut sao, huen sao, jut sao. You can add a pak or a fok sao if you want to. It is all about using your imagination.

[Vajramusti]

They are 'Jut ging"- dont raise shoulders, dont bend elbows- when done right helps develop
wrist and fingers. Do not tighten muscles. Helps in getting out of jams at close quarters- there are other applications as well. At close quarters-the arms wont be straight- but you would have learned how to empower the bridge(kiu), wrist and fingers by then.

joy chaudhuri

[couch]

They are 'Jut ging"- dont raise shoulders, dont bend elbows- when done right helps develop
wrist and fingers. Do not tighten muscles. Helps in getting out of jams at close quarters- there are other applications as well. At close quarters-the arms wont be straight- but you would have learned how to empower the bridge(kiu), wrist and fingers by then.

joy chaudhuri

There we go!

This type of training helps immensely. When playing high-energy Chi Sau, I've only been able to pull off some really good Huen Sau's because of this type of form training.

It's quite an amazing system. After performing a section on the dummy, let's say, then you go back to the Chi Sau and it comes out of what seems no-where!

Best,
K

[Katsu Jin Ken]

the "flick the wrist up and down" is put to use in the 4th set of the dummy form. Just learned it today:) Its forarm energy the opposite direction not so much the finger in my opinion

I believe its the first movements in the Yip Man BJ

[LoneTiger108]

I believe its the first movements in the Yip Man BJ

I agree, as these 'flicks' appear after the initial logo, five fists and legwork. The 'start point' of BJ?


... when done right helps develop wrist and fingers. Do not tighten muscles. Helps in getting out of jams at close quarters- there are other applications as well. At close quarters-the arms wont be straight- but you would have learned how to empower the bridge(kiu), wrist and fingers by then.

Superb ;)

[k gledhill]

...."keep back you guys , or I'll use my wagging finger techniques"....:rolleyes::D:D:D

to funny!

[Phil Redmond]

In TWC we don't use wrist flicks. We use Biu Jees like here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arYcXbwKFpc
Sifu Wan does something similar here around :08 and :15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtsEvZs2So8

[Liddel]

Dear all,
Is it possible for someone to tell me what is the purpose of having one hand in front of you and then flick your wrist three times in the last section of biu gee?
Thank you very much
Hitman

Forgive me if im wrong but could you be talking about... Toi Sau ?

I only mention this because you wrote 'in the last section'..

My Bj has Fut Sao left and right then Pai Sao (looks like upper Guarn) this then turns to Huen and after Huen three wrist flicks are Toi Sao pressing back to the center.....

Sifu Wan doesnt do this in the link provided by phil so if you see it... im way off LOL.

Sifu Wong performs it here at 203 -

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=j0WOEnxFyGA

Im now thinking i am a bit off cause there is no hand in front of you in the form at least, but im postin anyway :cool:

DREW

[couch]

Forgive me if im wrong but could you be talking about... Toi Sau ?

I only mention this because you wrote 'in the last section'..

My Bj has Fut Sao left and right then Pai Sao (looks like upper Guarn) this then turns to Huen and after Huen three wrist flicks are Toi Sao pressing back to the center.....

Sifu Wan doesnt do this in the link provided by phil so if you see it... im way off LOL.

Sifu Wong performs it here at 203 -

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=j0WOEnxFyGA

Im now thinking i am a bit off cause there is no hand in front of you in the form at least, but im postin anyway :cool:

DREW

Apologies, but what is "Toi Sao?"

The way WSL is performing is close to my version. I flick the wrist and then return with a Fok Sau visualizing it sitting back on top.

[Phil Redmond]

. . . . . .

Sifu Wan doesnt do this in the link provided by phil so if you see it... im way off LOL.

Sifu Wong performs it here at 203 -

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=j0WOEnxFyGA


DREW
If you look at his and at the times I gave you will also hear him say Biu Jee in Cantonese. It is a finger thrust. I downloaded the clip. Maybe I can do a slow motion version for you. :)

[Phil Redmond]

Drew. I just checked again and he does an upward biu jee and and 2 downward biu jees like done in TWC biu jee. I'm working on the clip now. The problem is that it might belong to someone so I won't post it on youtube. I can email you the slow-mo version if you'd like. I played it over 10 times and I clearly see it.
PR

[Ali. R]

the "flick the wrist up and down" is put to use in the 4th set of the dummy form. Just learned it today:) Its forarm energy the opposite direction not so much the finger in my opinion

I believe its the first movements in the Yip Man BJ

In some words you are correct…

Ali Rahim.

All praise to Allah (God) the most merciful, master of the Day of Judgment…
Thee do we worship and thine aid we seek…

Maaliki Yawmid-Diin

[Phil Redmond]

He called the first movement after the strike biu jee then he said seung dit? sau.I have to see the Chinese character for dit to know what that is. Maybe a native speaker might know. We call that movement Seung biu jee. I even noticed the one that he calls biu jee is armpit level. We use the same strike for Heart 1 under the armpit. The ones he called dit? sau are neck level could be Large Intestine 17-18, Stomach 9-10-12 etc. Now I know that things that look similar sometimes aren't. It's just what I see based on our Biu Jee form.

[Liddel]

If you look at his and at the times I gave you will also hear him say Biu Jee in Cantonese. It is a finger thrust. I downloaded the clip. Maybe I can do a slow motion version for you. :)


Sorry Phil.... see ive just confused maters now...LOL

I was refering to what i call Toi (toy) Sao or a pushing hand.... I see the BJ in the Sifu Wan clip :)....

Just thought after the Orig Poster mentioned at the end of BJ it might be something different than what had been posted by others....



Apologies, but what is "Toi Sao?"
The way WSL is performing is close to my version. I flick the wrist and then return with a Fok Sau visualizing it sitting back on top.

Hey Couch,

Toi Sao for me is a press or 'pushing hand' tranistioned to from the Fook Sao back to center. I can see WSL do a similar movement. The pressure, touch point and direction of inch power (or wrist hinge movement ) may be different then my Toi Sao...is he using Jum ???

I think i have confused matters :D wouldnt be a first time LOL

Just for POV - my BJ goes.... Fut Sao left right. Pi Sao (looks like upper guarn but is half the angle in the forearm) then Fook sao turning to the outside followed by Toi Sao pressing back to center, then Fook turns again and you repeat three times then Fut sao is repeated on the other side....fook and Toi etc etc


Now I know that things that look similar sometimes aren't. It's just what I see based on our Biu Jee form

No phil your bang on im the same at that part... :D

Its crazy how we could get this sorted in 2 secs if shown in person :p

DREW

[couch]

Toi Sao for me is a press or 'pushing hand' tranistioned to from the Fook Sao back to center. I can see WSL do a similar movement. The pressure, touch point and direction of inch power (or wrist hinge movement ) may be different then my Toi Sao...is he using Jum ???

DREW

Cool! Never knew this by another name. We just called it Fok Sau in our club. This was the motion I used to train in the Dan Chi Sau. Now I use Jum, but the Toi Sau was just as you explained, pressing (down and in) with almost the wrist and base of the palm with emphasis on the whole structure moving ever so slightly forward with elbow pressure.

[k gledhill]

right jum strike + left tan strike attack the left flanks

left jum strike + right tan strike attack the right flanks

the striking / outside & inside of forearm energies stays constant throughout the system, from SLT and on, being nurtured and developed systematically, even into bg...meaning your relationship to the incoming line of force is all you need to guide you to what to use to attack back with...no mind. BG is a break from the normal 'bubble' of fighting. recovery.

jum is a constant force as is tan..the system is striking ideas.

[Liddel]

Cool! Never knew this by another name. We just called it Fok Sau in our club. This was the motion I used to train in the Dan Chi Sau. Now I use Jum, but the Toi Sau was just as you explained, pressing (down and in) with almost the wrist and base of the palm with emphasis on the whole structure moving ever so slightly forward with elbow pressure.

Yep thats the one... :)

Its very useful in chi sao / poon sao, ive also found a niche for it in the clinch to gain space for punching my way out.
Ive used Toi from a tight clinch to get enough space (only inches) to dig a good left body then right head shot respectively. Its been effective against my sparring partners.

Still not quite sure if this is what the Original poster was on about though :rolleyes:

DREW

[martyg]

Dear all,

Is it possible for someone to tell me what is the purpose of having one hand in front of you and then flick your wrist three times in the last section of biu gee?



Thank you very much

Hitman


Yah, the originator had just finished washing their hands before making up that section.

[Katsu Jin Ken]

Hitman:

Can i ask where you train at?

[LoneTiger108]

:o:confused:

Looking at my response and what others are saying I think I had the wrong set altogether!!?

I'm in need of some more form training and BJ was my favourite in the day. Although I have to admit, much practise was done without guidance...

[Hitman]

Katsu Jin Ken

Can i ask where you train at?


I am not attending any martial arts school at the moment due to injuries.

I am not telling you where I have been trained at, because most of the schools I been to the instructors were more interested in making money then teaching or their kung fu were poor.

[Katsu Jin Ken]

Used to train at ASA martial arts till it closed down, now i train in my sifu's garage.

[Achilles1987]

In my organisation MAI:Wing Tsjun, although it is an EWTO/IWTA: GM Leung Ting Style based organisation we make kwan-sau(tan sau with lower bong sau) movement in biu tze form however i watched GM Leung Ting's videos and he didn't do kwan-sau but he instead did wu sau with gaun sau and i saw the same movement in TWC:GM William Cheung Style can u explain me this please...

[RGVWingChun]

The double gaan sao is a recovery movement....I've never seen the biu jee form with a qwan sao like that....you see that more on the Mook yan Jong

[Achilles1987]

Thank you very much. And I want to correct my previous quote i said wu sau- gaun sau but it was double gaun sau. But still today i have watched some youtube EWTO(WingTsun) Biu-Tze forms and there was kwun-sau movements. It should be in 116 movements dummy form as you say because i have a book that GGM Yip Man makes kwun-sau to the dummy at early pages.Thanks for helping anyway.

[hunt1]

Yip Man taught Kwan Sau in biu gee to his Foshan students. The only Hong Kong student that had it in their 3rd form was William Cheung. Leung Ting added it to his Biu Jee in the early 2000's late 1990's after learning how Lun Gai performed his Biu Jee. That's why your Leung Ting video doesn't show Leung Ting performing it.

As a whole some wing chun families have it in Biu Jee but most don't. Many on the mainland don't have the Biu section but some do. Forms vary.

[Vajramusti]

But, en passim- the foundations of kwan sau are there both in the SLT and the chum kiu and you encounter it again in mook jong work. Biu jee goes on to work on other motions and structural adaptations. But it is all there. The forms are progressive- so that with practice, discipline and development at a good development level- it is all one form.

joy chaudhuri

[Achilles1987]

Thank you very much hunt1

[LoneTiger108]

The forms are progressive- so that with practice, discipline and development at a good development level- it is all one form.

Joy sir, you always seem to say it how it is. How many more gems can we throw out there for all to see?

Biu Gee? I think I know a 'version' that not many have seen! Lee Shing was a very private man, and his Biu Gee is totally unique fme. The order of sets and amount of reps per side is different from most. BG to me, is a very personal form as it's grown and developed over time as SLT & CK do also.

I'll have to post something on good old Youtube soon, and I'd love to hear what you all think, I think! :eek:

Anyone else got some clips out there of Biu Gee?

[hunt1]

Your welcome Achilles.


Lonetiger is your BJ the same as Simon Lau's? I learned that one a long time ago.
Also is your CK the same as Simon's? I ask because I always enjoyed the finish of that form wonder if that is standard for your family or Simons twist.?

[LoneTiger108]

Lonetiger is your BJ the same as Simon Lau's? I learned that one a long time ago. Also is your CK the same as Simon's? I ask because I always enjoyed the finish of that form wonder if that is standard for your family or Simons twist.?

I couldn't tell you :( I haven't seen Lau Sifus forms, only a few incomplete or edited clips. I personally wouldn't think that any of my forms look exactly like Lau Sifus, except that we may start with the same salutation (charp jeung gwa kuen) as this was a signature of Lee Shing. If you know of any good clips let me know and I'll compare.

I do have pien san kuen at the end of CK, which may be similar...