hey guys if you're interested in our eye dotting ceremony check this out

[hskwarrior]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLdpQwCnJGo

[diego]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLdpQwCnJGo
Awesome, very stylish & intriguing. Thanks for posting Frank:D

[hskwarrior]

diego, thanks brah. man,that day was important! not only did we get our new black lions blessed by the head of the hung mun ghee kung tong, but it was the 160th anniversary of it as well. it made it to some chinese news stations, and the internet (all in chinese). but wow! did u see me in there? i was the one drumming too! and i didn't do too bad neither!

[seisei]

Sifu Frank,
this is the first time i've seen any aspect of these ceremonies, Hung moon is still highly respected organization in all chinese communities worldwide,very very tradional chinese style especially with the large black lions, glad they still do things in this manner. thanks for sharing.
M

[diego]

diego, thanks brah. man,that day was important! not only did we get our new black lions blessed by the head of the hung mun ghee kung tong, but it was the 160th anniversary of it as well. it made it to some chinese news stations, and the internet (all in chinese). but wow! did u see me in there? i was the one drumming too! and i didn't do too bad neither!

I'm pretty sure 160 years is older than my home town Vancouver, B.C.:) I looked again and couldn't see anyone drumming, what minute frame are you in?.
Cheers

[hungmunhingdai]

Yat pie tien teh
Yee pie jo see
Sum pie hungmun

[hskwarrior]

right! thanks.

[hskwarrior]

diego, i am the drummer in the video, but there's a point where the camera scans the room u will see me the red shirt and head band. the bald white guy!!!.....lmao.

[ingchao]

Much respect for keeping traditions alive!

[hskwarrior]

hey thanks sir. yeah, the dragon raymond chow will be bringing back many of the old and long forgotten traditions. that day was definately an experience.

[diego]

hey thanks sir. yeah, the dragon raymond chow will be bringing back many of the old and long forgotten traditions. that day was definately an experience.

What do the different colors of lions mean Frank?.

[Infrazael]

I hereby proclaim you honorary Chinese Frank. ;)

You got my props for helping out with my tradition.

I'm very fawking proud to be Chinese.

[diego]

I hereby proclaim you honorary Chinese Frank. ;)

You got my props for helping out with my tradition.

I'm very fawking proud to be Chinese.

Just watched the performance again...I just bought "Big trouble in little China" on DVD at bargain discount pricing...I love the red Scarves:)
In Vancouver we have a big Chinatown which I remember going to New Years with my school watching Lion Dancing...I also remember the alleys were the place to buy fireworks...some middle age dude selling explosives to kids and teenagers out of the back of his car trunk...one time we had to go to the projects which was ran by like lotus gang or something. i remember those alleys always tripped me out on Halloween.

It's cool to see a closed door performance online.

[Infrazael]

I know what that Hung Mun society was created from (ideologies etc). Kinda a strange situation for me because everyone in China is considered "Chinese" but I don't know how much racism there is against the Manchus still.

Because I am 1/4 Manchu. :D

But don't tell anyone.

[chasincharpchui]

What do the different colors of lions mean Frank?.

from memory

red=kwan yu(kwan kung)
black= lau bei
yellow= cheung fei

[seisei]

to Chasincharpchui and Diego,
YELLOW-FACED LION [B]or Multi-Colored = LAU ,BEI
RED-FACED LION = KWAN<KUNG
DARK-FACED(BLACK) LION = JEUNG(CHEUNG),FEI
The Founder of Hung Sing Studios,Glorious Victory, is Jeung,(Yim)Hung-Sing so the Black Lion is representative of Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut.
As this is what we were taught ,by our teacher Lau.Bun and what is also taught by our Fut-San School.
m

[brothernumber9]

Black lion is a young lion. Fierce and vigorous, sometimes a little head strong, with a green nose is a fighting lion, quite common, as it is suitable for all skill levels, beginner to advanced, young and old alike.

The Kwan Kung or red lion is a little older, smarter, retains the vigorousness, but displays knowledge of proper etiquettes and traditions, as well as good "field" generalship arguably the most common of traditional lions seen as it represents the honor Kwan Kung brings.

Traditionally to own a white lion or Lau Bei lion, a school had to be open for 10 years or more. Older and wiser, strong and purposeful and prominent postures, not as wild as the black lion, Shown with true experience and competence.

[CLFNole]

I thought "white lions" were to be used for funerals? I never recall seeing them used for lion dancing persay just black, red, gold, yellow, silver, etc...

[brothernumber9]

White lions, meaning white hair. Is what I meant Whire hair and yellow hair are used interchangeably, depending on style, locale, and traditions.

Though there are some systems and branches of styles that use a white funeral lion, I don't think it is really all that common. I think likely in that sense, an existing lion is painted all white since it will be burned with the sifu, hence destroyed, and there really isn't any dance to it.

[hskwarrior]

i agree.

white lions used for funerals only.

but, since jeung hung sing and jeung fei share the same name, the fut san hung sing kwoon lineage has a special connection to the black lion, the one who represents Jeung Fei. so i agree with my ssg "sei sei" as well.

[diego]

^^^ Cool, thanks for the infos:cool:

[htowndragon]

black means open challenge from what ive heard

and white for elders

[Fei Li]

the page is on french but you can find the explications of the different lion types:
http://www.ymt.free.fr/fr/index.html

In short:
Yellow1: head Multicolored with yellow dominance, beard white, body multicolored. Patron is Liu Bei. Symbolizes sovereignty.

Red: head red, beard black, body red. Patron is Guan Yu. Symbolizes Intelligence and bravery

Black: head black, beard black, body black. Patron is Zhang Fei. Symbolizes impetuosity, aggressiveness.

Green: head green, beard black, body green. Patron is Zhao Yun. Symbolizes youth and impetuosity

Yellow2: head yellow, beard white, body yellow. Patron is Huang Zhong.
Symbolizes prudence.

[hskwarrior]

well, i thought some of you might find this interesting, while others could find it disturbing. Either way, it is what it is. but the bald guy is the one who blessed our lions........

anyhow, this documentary was shown on the history channel's "gangland"

part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-5saob5H7A)

part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZRbqCKVQdQ&feature=related)

part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqzkcfD932I&feature=related)

part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44kZ1kKfo6Q&feature=related)

part 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-EQVM7tCIU&feature=related)

[once ronin]

It's sad they let you in with a camera and the once secret society is out for all to see.

It's a wonder the society is dying, it is no longer secret or anything is sacred.

[hskwarrior]

once ronin,

i'm sorry you feel that way. however, what wasn't supposed to be seen....WASN'T.

what you watched was an actual Hung Mun eye dotting ceremony. nothing secret about that. it wasn't like we filmed the triad initiation ceremonies or anything.

this day was glorious. and from the east to the west, 5 continents of people showed up for this celebration.

link 1 (http://news.sina.com/us/chinapress/104-103-102-102/2008-08-16/05033203045.html)

link2 (http://www.chinesetoday.com/news/show/id/100394)

link 3 (http://www.worldjournal.com/wj-sf-news.php?nt_seq_id=1760359)

link 4 (http://www.cntv.us/zh/view/10516/%E4%BB%BB%E5%BC%98%EF%B9%95%E4%B8%AD%E8%8F%AF%E6%B 0%91%E5%9C%8B%E5%83%91%E7%A4%BE%E7%A7%89%E6%8C%81% E7%AB%B6%E7%88%AD%E7%90%86%E5%BF%B5)
this one is actual newsfootage of the event.

so everything that was SECRET.......is still secret. it was only an eye opening ceremony.

but who did it, and when was more important.

[hskwarrior]

thanks to those who checked it out.

[David Jamieson]

It's sad they let you in with a camera and the once secret society is out for all to see.

It's a wonder the society is dying, it is no longer secret or anything is sacred.

It's not secret so much as it is esoteric.
Not widely practiced and there is a lot involved.(The Lion dance rituals part that is)

Unfortunately, I can't see the vid anymore, but I did have the privileged of learning the Hoi-Gong ceremony in the time I spent also learning Lion Dance. It's a very interesting practice with equally interesting content and context.

I've seen it practiced on Lions, Dragons and even on dragon boats (which is by one reckoning the place where the ceremony started) :)

any chance you can put the vid up again?

[seisei]

I agree that the lion eye opening ceromony definitly is NOT SECRETIVE as a matter of fact quite a few non-chinese officiate at these ceromonies, the secret that was reffered to was the swearing in of the new Dragon Head of the Hung Moon of which I believe there is only one at a time in the world,I also believe that it is a lifetime position,Perhaps a better word to use is not secret but culturally discreet as you know people love to ridicule things ,so that is why they wished to be discreet such as the English Freemasons are and many other private organisations are, college fraternaties etc. this particular eye opening was endorsing a certain lion dance club at the same time as the ceremony of swearing in of the new chairperson.Even the ceremony of a new Dragon Head to the Hung Moon has been documented in many books worldwide, no biggie, just a private party by invitation only from what I understand
M

[once ronin]

Well since all dont understand a word of Chinese all is good to share just the video.

[hungmunhingdai]

Green Dragon on my left.
White Tiger on my right.
I enter Hung Mun.
With a red flag in my hands.
To pray respect to the 3 elders.
From the east to the west.
In all directions,
We are brother.
This I vow,
Heaven and Earth be my witness.

[SimonM]

the page is on french but you can find the explications of the different lion types:
http://www.ymt.free.fr/fr/index.html

In short:
Yellow1: head Multicolored with yellow dominance, beard white, body multicolored. Patron is Liu Bei. Symbolizes sovereignty.

Red: head red, beard black, body red. Patron is Guan Yu. Symbolizes Intelligence and bravery

Black: head black, beard black, body black. Patron is Zhang Fei. Symbolizes impetuosity, aggressiveness.

Green: head green, beard black, body green. Patron is Zhao Yun. Symbolizes youth and impetuosity

Yellow2: head yellow, beard white, body yellow. Patron is Huang Zhong.
Symbolizes prudence.


Interesting... how did the starting lineup for team Shu Han get to be connected to lion dance?
And why did Ma Chao get slighted? He was at least the general Huang Zhong was... :p

[monkeyking168]

Lion dance was initially done by the actors of Southern Chinese Cantonese opera troops and other performing groups, the base paints were done in the same context and meanings that are found in Chinese opera characters. Obviously, since the Lion, once tamed and awakened, is supposed to be a creature of good, colors that represent evil or bad luck were to be avoided.

Liu Bei is represented by the base color of yellow for his face. Symbolically, it represented several things. The first is that is the color of his skin, the second is that it represented his wisdom and the third is that yellow (or yellow gold as it is known in China) was reserved for and represented the color of the Emperor (just as King’s of Europe used the color purple.). It sported a long white beard for wisdom and seniority.

Guan Gung or Guan Yu was said to have had a reddish face (this was due to when a corrupt official attempted to kill him by trapping him in a temple and burning him alive). The base color of red also symbolizes General Guan’s righteousness, loyalty and bravery. On the collar are two coins to denote his standing as second brother. The beard is long and black, as General Guan was known as the Duke with the Beautiful Beard.

Zhang Fei, his Lion has a black face because it is said General Zhang had a dark complexion. However, black also represents youth, straightforward, and rebellious nature all of which was traits of Zhang Fei. This lion sported a short stubby black beard, red colored glass eyes, cauliflower ears, and canine like fangs. All the more to make the lion more menacing.

Later an additional three Lions were added to the group. The Green faced lion represented Zhao Yun or Zhao (Chu) Zi Long. He has a green tail with black (sometimes white) beard and fur and an iron horn. He is often called the forth brother, and is known as the “Heroic Lion” as it is said, he managed to find and rescue Liu Bei’s infant son by riding into the middle of Wei’s million man army.

The Yellow (yellow/orange) face and body with white beard represented Huang (Wong) Zhong, we was given this color when Liu Bei rose to become Emperor. This lion is called the Righteous Lion. This is due to the general sparing Kwan Yu after Lord Kwan had spared his life when his horse collapsed during their duel. After his master at the time accused him falsely of collusion for the act and ordered his execution he remained loyal and refused to argue to save his own life (his life was spared when another general executed the corrupt lord).

The white color lion is known as Ma Chao, he was assigned this color because he always wore a white arm band to battle against the Emperor of Wei, Cao Cao, to signify that he was in mourning for his father and brother who had been murdered by Cao Cao. Thus this lion was known as the funeral lion. If there is a mirror it should be covered. Some will instead have the yin/yang symbol in its place. Usually, this has only one other color, black. This lion is never used except for a funeral for the Sifu or some important head of the group, and in such cases it is usually burned right after. Even if it is properly stored, it is not something one would want to keep, as it is symbolically inauspicious to have around. It is sometimes though, confused with the silver lion which sometimes has a white like coloring.

These three along with Guan Yu and Zhang Fei were known as the “Five Tiger Generals of Shu,” each representing one of the colors of the five elements

Cheers,
Sifu Lau

[GeneChing]

Was that the same ceremony we're covering in the current issue (2008 November/December (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=789)) Blessing the Lion Heads By Greg Hebert?

[monkeyking168]

gene,
i believe this is the same ceremony that was covered in this issue. it was performed at hung mun, chee gung tong, chinese freemasons's 160th anniversary. i saw the article & the magazine at my sifu's studio but do not personnally have a copy of it yet... :rolleyes: there was a picture of my sifu & the students of the hung sing studio in it. but i will get a copy for myself soon unless you want to send me one 1st... :D
cheers,
sifu lau

[hskwarrior]

Yes Sir Gene,

And I'm in there too;)

[SimonM]

The white color lion is known as Ma Chao, he was assigned this color because he always wore a white arm band to battle against the Emperor of Wei, Cao Cao, to signify that he was in mourning for his father and brother who had been murdered by Cao Cao. Thus this lion was known as the funeral lion. If there is a mirror it should be covered. Some will instead have the yin/yang symbol in its place. Usually, this has only one other color, black. This lion is never used except for a funeral for the Sifu or some important head of the group, and in such cases it is usually burned right after. Even if it is properly stored, it is not something one would want to keep, as it is symbolically inauspicious to have around. It is sometimes though, confused with the silver lion which sometimes has a white like coloring.

These three along with Guan Yu and Zhang Fei were known as the “Five Tiger Generals of Shu,” each representing one of the colors of the five elements

Cheers,
Sifu Lau

Ok, so Ma Chao does get representation too... that makes sense now. Thank you very much.

Sanguo Yanyi is one of my favorite stories and so I wondered when reference was made to Liu Bei and to four of the tiger generals but not the fifth in a previous post.

[GeneChing]

It's nice to see the video. Greg sent us several pics, but we didn't have room to run them all. Sounded like an interesting ceremony.

That issue is still on the newsstands for another month. ;)

[hskwarrior]

I'm sorry that you missed it Gene. It was a once in a lifetime experience.

And, I will hands down give it to the man, although he messes around too much (inside joke), MonkeyKing has even schooled me in the aspects of lion dancing. Not that i was something to speak about, Im just a lowly drummer. He has been a great asset to the Hung Sing Kwoon.

[secretgecko]

Does anyone have a translation of what is being said in this vid?

[hskwarrior]

nope sorry:D:D:D

[secretgecko]

Found this great description to add to the discussion:

New Southern Chinese Lions must be blessed by a traditional ceremony called the Hoi Gong (eye opening/dotting). Traditionally a new lion should not be used if it hasn't gone through the Hoi Gong ceremony. According to the tradition if the lion is used at any kind of event without being blessed or awakened it will bring misfortune and bad luck.

"Dotting the Eye" refers in particular to the Chinese tradition of painting in the eye of the Chinese lion before the start of the lion dance to awaken the spirit of the lion. Hoi Gong is a traditional ceremony to bless and awaken a new lion or in a more traditional concept bring down the spirit of the lion from the heaven and give it life. In other words this ceremony signifies the existence or birth of a new lion into the world.

The actual eye dotting ceremony itself may differ from school to school. The following is a short description of how the ceremony is carried out in most southern gung fu schools. The ceremony usually begins by the new lion laid down in front of the ancestral altar where the lion waits to be awakened with its eyes securely shut and the mouth tightly closed.

Traditionally a priest/monk present begins the ceremony chanting of prayers to heavenly gods and summon the spirit and soul of the lion from the heaven down into the lion. While the lion still awaits, an important individual is invited to the open the eyes of the lion by dotting the lion with symbolic blood or red ink-cinnabar. Traditionally the blood from a live rooster's comb was used to dot the lion.

According to Chinese tradition red is regarded as a life giving colour as well as being associated with good fortune and prosperity and the rooster symbolizes maleness/positive yang element, which represents life and power. First the mirror on lion's forehead is dotted to give the lion life. Second are the eyes for sight, followed by the nose, tongue, ears, horn, back of head, spine and, finally the tail. Then a red ribbon is tied on to lion's horn, which is a symbol of courage and honour and signify that the lion is tamed. The red ribbon is also a reminder for the lion to do only good deeds.

Dotting is carried out to the soft sounds of the drum, gong and the cymbal, but as the lion awakes and begins to move/dance the sound of the instruments become extremely loud. As the lion awakes the firecrackers are lid up and explode to drive away the evil spirits and bad luck. First the lion's eyes begin to move, flickering and blinking. Then the mouth opens and the body begins to breath, ears flickering, biting and scratching. Now the lion is alive and fully awake, ready for its first performance as it bows three times in front of the altar.

[monkeyking168]

The red ribbon for Hung Mun people represents the color of blood and the life force, the horn was used for fighting, it was a reminder of the Chinese blood spilled in the fight against the Manchu’s who ruled over China at the time.

I have included the english translation for what was said during the dotting ceremony.

Cheers,
Sifu Lau

参花挂红拜师公
PUTTING RED FLOWER RIBBON AND BOW TO OUR PREDECESSOR
戴起响铃显灵通
WEARING THE CHIMES THAT WILL AWAKENS ITS SPIRIT
兄弟平安添义气
MAY OUR BROTHERS HAVE PEACE AND MORE CHIVALRY
吉昌兴旺永流芳
SO WE MAY HAVE LUCK AND PROSPERITY FOR ALL ETERNITY

醒狮点睛开光曲
(灵光) 罡气天地人，狮中之瑞
IN THE MIDST OF HEAVEN, EARTH AND MEN, THE LION REPRESENTS LUCK
(双眼) 千里眼，左青龙，右白虎
WITH EYES THAT CAN SEE TEN THOUSAND MILES, THE GREEN DRAGON ON THE LEFT AND THE WHITE TIGER ON THE RIGHT
(双耳) 顺风耳， 左通天, 右达地
A PAIR OF SMOOTHLY WINDED EARS, FOR THE LEFT PENETRATES THE HEAVEN, WHILE THE RIGHT REACHES THE EARTH
(鼻) 万里鼻，能办妖淫邪恶
A TEN THOUSAND MILES SENSING NOSE THAT CAN HANDLE ALL EVIL SPIRITS
(嘴) 牙尖嘴利，吼声吭宇宙
POINTED TEETH AND SHARP MOUTH, WITH GROWLING ROARS THAT IS HEARD THROUGHOUT IN THIS UNIVERSE
(角) 独角震乾坤，万丈毫光
A SINGLE HORN THAT ROCKS THE HEAVEN AND EARTH, UNLEASHES TEN THOUSAND MILES OF LIGHT
(被) 威猛雄狮，长寿永无疆
GIVING THIS FEROCIOUS AND BRAVE LION, A LONG LIFE OF NO BOUNDARIES
(左脚) 左脚踏七星，天下太平
LEFT FOOT STANDS ON SEVEN STARS, FOR THE WORLD TO HAVE PEACE
(右脚) 右脚踏风云，降龙伏虎
RIGHT FOOT STANDS ON WINDY CLOUDS, TO YIELD THE DRAGON AND SUPPRESS THE TIGER
顺风顺水顺顺利利，大吉大利起鼓
WITH FAVORABLE WINDS AND ROLLING WATER THAT SMOOTHLY FLOW, MAY WE ALL HAVE GOOD LUCK AND GOOD FORTUNE.

Sifu Lau

[extrajoseph]

Gee Sifu Lau,

You are so different to Frank - knowledgeable, cultured, mild mannered and very constructive. Do you really have the same teacher as HIM? :D

Thanks for the translation.

XJ

[iron_silk]

Gee Sifu Lau,

You are so different to Frank - knowledgeable, cultured, mild mannered and very constructive. Do you really have the same teacher as HIM? :D

Thanks for the translation.

XJ


Indeed Joseph.

Let us all follow his example then shall we?

[hskwarrior]

Indeed.

Sifu Lau has been a great asset to the Hung Sing Kwoon and my sifu since he joined us. I have great respect for my brother. Thanks to him, i understand my drumming even more than previously.

Thank you Sifu Lau, but you know what we always say right? ;) YFATM!!!!!