point fighting vs. real fighting

[mkriii]

My question is can a tournament fighter (that is a point fighter) be able to fight effectively on the street. Can a point fighter really fight or do they have a false sense of security? Do they still possess the skills neccessary to defeat an attacker (the avaerage Joe) on the street? I'm just interested in what everyone thinks.

[Lucas]

sure. i think so.

we are talking about the average joe here, so imo its not that far of a stretch.

i had a buddy who competed in olympic style tkd alot, got tons of golds and trophies.

he also had a stint where he was getting into a lot of street fights. far as i know he never lost one.

but at the same time he could knock a guy out with a kick lightning fast.

your average joe? cut that time in half i guess.

[SDJerry]

People who point spar usually don't cover up and guard well because basically, there's no incentive too. No matter how 'realistic' you try to keep it, at the end of the day everyone gets comfortable. You may catch a live one on occasion but that is no where near what someone who actually wants to harm you will come at you with.

Another issue... distance. When point sparring, you can still keep a safe distance out and make contact. Since the only goal is contact, you don't have to get up close and personal.

Now, if you are an Olympic athlete... you are probably the exception and not the rule. hehehe

[Fa Xing]

I think it's better than nothing but if better methods are available, why not take those?

The problem with point sparring is that if you were to get in a real confrontation, the difficulty would be that you have to follow up other techiques rather than the traditional point sparring method of getting in, hitting, and then getting out. You risk getting truly hit if you do not know how to throw techniques together whether they be striking, throwing, or grappling.

The benefit of point sparring is that it can teach you how to move in and out of the various attack ranges. Although, other forms of sparring also teach that.

[Lamassu]

My question is can a tournament fighter (that is a point fighter) be able to fight effectively on the street. Can a point fighter really fight or do they have a false sense of security? Do they still possess the skills neccessary to defeat an attacker (the avaerage Joe) on the street? I'm just interested in what everyone thinks.

Personally I hate point sparring. It's not realistic because of all the 'stops' and 'resets' during a match and because of this, the opponents are more concerned about telegraphing a visually obvious strike as opposed to landing an effective strike. Not to mention there's no real strategy in linking techniques because as soon as you make contact you have to 'stop' and 'reset'. 'Point sparring' is exactly what it sounds like: an inferior point counting system to conform cma into a 'sport'.

Now I'm not so thick to assume there are no benefits in point sparring, of course there are like increase stamina, 'thinking on your feet', and of course learning how you're leaving yourself open...but you learn all these in continual sparring and especially circle sparring as well. So besides getting a plastic trophy, what else is point sparring good for?

[naja]

Now I'm not so thick to assume there are no benefits in point sparring, of course there are like increase stamina, 'thinking on your feet', and of course learning how you're leaving yourself open...but you learn all these in continual sparring and especially circle sparring as well. So besides getting a plastic trophy, what else is point sparring good for?

Good points (no pun intended :) ).

What do you guys think about point sparring as the first stage of sparring for people new to MA? Think it would help or hurt?

[mkriii]

I think it depends on how you do it. I think that if your just going to do point sparring with light contact it's not going to help you. I think it should be done with medium to hard contact otherwise your going to get in the habit of pulling your punches and kicks. This will in the end hurt you in a real fight.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Full contact point fighting can build some serious skills.

[Kevin Huang]

Point sparring - or all tournament sparring including MMA - is a good drill for teaching various physical aspects of combat.

However, there are many additional factors that go into surviving street encounters. Simply having great technique is not enough.

One must understand the realities of how the mean streets operate in order to apply (or not apply) his technique effectively. Failure to do so can result in disastrous consequences for all parties involved.

Surviving street encounters isn't about beating down perceived enemies in a righteous rage. It's about knowing oneself, facing down one's own inner insecurities, and then taking the appropriate steps to protect oneself while limiting the damage that is inflicted or withstood.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Indeed, street fighting is not a sport.
The street may look like it's just laying there, but its plotting, it thrives on people walking all over it, until it decides its time to strike !!

[Kevin Huang]

And then once it happen, the defender can't just carve his opponent into little bloody bits.

In today's era of cell phone cameras, hidden video recording, forensic evidence, and hospital reports, one must be appropriately cautious in defending oneself. It's all too easy for the assaulted to turn into the assaulter, particularly if weapons are involved.

There's one aspect of reality self defense that is like point sparring. No matter who gets beaten up in a confrontation (often both sides), there's some sort of judging panel which issues a final decision on the outcome of the match based on man made laws.

In point sparring, it's the ring judge that states who wins and who doesn't. In reality self defense, it's the civil and criminal courts that determine the fate of plaintiffs and defendants.

Aside from that fundamental similarity, the differences between point sparring and reality self defense are so many that I will not even attempt to write about them here.

[Lucas]

Indeed, street fighting is not a sport.
The street may look like it's just laying there, but its plotting, it thrives on people walking all over it, until it decides its time to strike !!

lol.

not only that, but it uses US as tools to feed it people !

judo practitioners must be aware of this!

[sanjuro_ronin]

lol.

not only that, but it uses US as tools to feed it people !

judo practitioners must be aware of this!

Its a little know fact that The Street and Judoka have an unwritten alliance for many, many decades, for every person we throw onto The Street, The Street makes sure that they stay down.
The Street also makes sure that there is no lava, broken glass or rocks on it when judoka ground fight ( this agreement has not been extended to BJJ players because they don't have The Real Judo).
:p

[SimonM]

I beat the street in a fight once. It was down for the count. Seriously, I counted to 10 and it didn't stand up.

[WinterPalm]

I never saw the point of it.:D Can't avoid the puns...
I don't really care for anything that isn't pretty close to hard hitting. I'd say medium contact but with good intentions and lots of follow ups. Sometimes a bit lighter is good for a little tiny bit of practice...obviously with beginners this is good too as there's no sense in bullying people on the mat.

That said, for competition the only way to go is full contact. Even if it isn't a real fight and you've got padding, it's still some serious stuff and safely replicates real fighting.

[naja]

Indeed, street fighting is not a sport.
The street may look like it's just laying there, but its plotting, it thrives on people walking all over it, until it decides its time to strike !!

LMAO!! that's signature quality.