Shaolin Staff Forms

[tattooedmonk]

I recently came across three staff forms known as Wind Staff, Wind Demon Staff and Magic Staff, does anyone have any info. about these forms??

[kwaichang]

I have one of them in a book now where is it ?? KC

[iron_leg_dave]

I have one of them in a book now where is it ?? KC


Magic staff is super famous. I learned it as " Shaolin enchanted staff ". It has to be as famous as 9 continents.

I also learned it with a spear, and that it should be done with a long pole and only after you get the key form of the style. I think it's tong bei in mantis. It's usually Yi Lu in Longfist or whatever the systems first form really expressing the nature of the style is.

What were you wondering about the forms exactly?

[GeneChing]

Shaolin Kung Fu Wind Demon Staff (http://www.martialartsmart.net/vidshaolkunw.html) is available on VHS.

Here's some other staff discussions:
yin shou gun (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48637)
Famous Shaolin Staff techniques (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49270)

[tattooedmonk]

Shaolin Enchanted staff ,HUH?? I will check into the Wind Demon Staff Set offered by MAM.com to see if it is the same.

[Eugene]

Hi all,

I was wondering about the * Ferocious Enchanted Staff * of the acient Shaolin monks.

I have this book for a long while, and practice it for 2 years, but i get the feeling that most transitions are not good, how they are after eachother in the book.

Dr. Leung Ting bought this book as he tells in the into of the book as a teenager for a few Hong Kong dollars at the market from a used-book store.

He said that it was * rearranged bi him *

Each time when I do the form I get all mixed up, and some body parts get stuck in some posture.

Any know knows more about this staff, ( I know that Shi Heng Jun is a master in the Wind and Magic staff, but never came to find out more )

I have feeling that what he practiced is different then this book.

I hope someone has a video of it, i searched for a long while, but came up with nothing.

Peace Eugene

I use a 8,5 feet pole for practice, a rat, tail ...

[Eugene]

http://www.martialartsmart.com/pr-gs210.html

Here is a picture of the Shaolin Wind Demon Staff that Mr. GeneChing refered to.

But this staff looks shorter then the book off * The Enchanted Ferocious Staff * of the ancient monks. And this staff looks at the tiny photo I c, as it has the same thickness all over, so it might be different

I live in Holland, so it is hard to understand the meaning of - Enchanted and Ferocious real well, It could be *extreme bewitched staff * or Beastly Magical Staff *

or unrelenting intens posessed staff haha :)

From all this it would be a Bad Ass staff, but nothing with Wind, or my English Dictionary is off.

Just wanna get to the bottom of this Staff :)

[B-Rad]

I have this video, and honestly was a bit disappointed. I'm not sure if it's just this particular version, or if the form is very simple, but it reminded me a typical intermediate level modern wushu staff used to teach some of the more spinning/whirling moves. There really wasn't a whole lot too it, so probably a bit disappointing for people who are already pretty good with a staff and looking for something more unique.

As for staff length, I'm not entirely sure what you are asking, but I think it was about head high, and being waxwood, it gets thinner from bottom to top. In the photo he's striking with the bottom of the staff (the thicker end). Most staves you see from the mainland are waxwood.

[B-Rad]

Anyway, I wanted to ask the Shaolin folk what their favorite staff forms are? (Shaolin being famous for staff and all).

[Eugene]

Hey B-rad thx for your awnser,

This staff I talk about is 7,5 to 8,5 feet long. ( 228 cm - 259 cm )( Single Headed Pole )

i am 1.82 cm, so I made it 2.52 cm ( the book doenst say anything about body lenght hehe )

I saw somewhere that the staff is the king of weapons in a combat with another weapon. But dont know much more about weapons in a combat...

Wing Chun has this pole also for there 6,5 point techniques.

But I am wondering more about the book I have, and the background of it, in comparing to any other Shaolin long pole ( single headed )

I could for now only find for a Long Pole, ( Not Qi Mei Gun and Yin Shou Gun )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cqqxGdart0 ( Shaolin Jinna Luowang Cudgel )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92aTL-wgtRY ( Southern Shaolin Long pole form )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OCeghHm8Js&feature=related ( Shaolin Long Staff )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vEtJH6b0v0&feature=related ( this is the good length acording to my book )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Js5H6xS_f4&feature=related ( 8 wudang Immortals Staff )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axGkn5wkUgc&feature=related (Wudangshan Wushu long stick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD8s_8xODSg ( Shaolin Wind Staff )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYu1tJXOrZc ( Shaolin Wind Demon staff )

Non of the above look like the Book of * the Enchanted Ferocious Staff *

[LFJ]

i'd like to see the chinese characters for all these stick sets named here, because it sounds like many different english names for the same set.

for example, "magic staff" is named at the bottom here: http://plumpub.com/sales/vcd2/coll_shaolin5.htm , but actually the chinese characters (fēngmó 疯魔) for this set mean literally "crazy devil/demon".

the "magic" translation comes from the fact that "magic" in chinese is móshù (魔术), literally "devil/demon art". the character 魔 (mó) can also mean "magic" or "magic power".

but this stick set has nothing to do with magic. the crazy devil name refers to the illogical "crazy" methods and footwork (drunken arhat stepping/ blind man searching path).

so there is the magic/demon translation decoded.

as for "wind" magic or wind demon, the character for "wind" (fēng 风) is pronounced exactly the same and looks similar to the character for "crazy" (fēng 疯), so it is often written incorrectly as the "wind" character.

other unrelated sets actually have the wind character though, such as this one:
http://www.martialartsmart.com/pr-gs210.html

Here is a picture of the Shaolin Wind Demon Staff that Mr. GeneChing refered to.

in this case the "wind demon" characters refer to the whooshing sound of the stick as it swings around wildly, sounding like a demon... but this stick set is just modern wushu garbage- nothing but a bunch of stick twirling and butterfly-twists. it has nothing to do with the traditional fengmogun set.

lastly, "ferocious enchanted" staff sounds like an awkward translation once again of "crazy devil/demon" (fēngmó 疯魔), where "feng" meaning "crazy" can also mean "wild" (ferocious?), and since "mo" meaning devil is used to refer to magic as in "demon art" (móshù 魔术) that's probably where the "enchanted" came from, being under the spell of demons.

anyway,

the traditional fengmogun (疯魔棍 crazy devil stick) set from the ming dynasty created by monk zhishan (智善) should be translated as "crazy devil/demon" based on its "drunken arhat stepping"/ "blind man searching path" footwork and methods, illogically changing directions like a madman.

[Eugene]

That is some great info LFJ :) Tx for cleaning things up.

from your 疯魔棍 ( fengmogun I found this video after a search :

http://you.video.sina.com.cn/b/1349105-1278401151.html ( I am not sure but could it be De Yang ? )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9ipwVvmAYQ&feature=related ( Cool Video )
This video has one move that is in the book, shown at 1:12/13/14
Excact same turn and end posture.

The titel above sais - Shaolin Magic Mad Staff ( google translates that website for me)

As for your last words :

drunken arhat stepping"/ "blind man searching path" footwork and methods, illogically changing directions like a madman.

The book of me * The Ferocious Enchanted Staff * seems what illogicly and perhaps drunk intended, it gives me a different view of the set.

But there is a lot of thwirling in. And 3 thwirls above the head with 2 hands, wich I cant find in any video....with a 8 feet pole

And also one 360 spin on one hand...

The book describes alot as if the staff can cause thunder, lightning, whirlwind and to quote * If the forse is correctly applied, the movement will cause the sound of howling wind and thunder*

And after seeing this impressive Shi Yan Mings performence I am in the dust again, because maybe one posture looks like the one in the enchanted staff book wich has 86 postures

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChchkCb_sfE

[Eugene]

I guess I have to check one of these :

1. Shaolin Yin Shou stick form
2. Shaolin Wind and fire stick form
3. Shaolin Damocles stick form
4. Shaolin Damocles 2 stick form
5. Shaolin ape stick form
6. Shaolin shuttle stick form
7. Shaolin meteor stick form
8. Shaolin wind evil stick form
9. Shaolin fire stick form
10. Shaolin Qi Mei stick form
11. Shaolin big Ye Cha stick form

Do you know LFJ if one of these forms that I marked has like a 8 feet pole and is single headed ?

[LFJ]

from your 疯魔棍 ( fengmogun I found this video after a search :

http://you.video.sina.com.cn/b/1349105-1278401151.html ( I am not sure but could it be De Yang ? )

yes, its master deyang, but this video is mislabeled, as they often are. everyone mixes up crazy devil stick (fēngmógùn 疯魔棍) with tending fire stick (shāohǒugùn 烧火棍) because they are identical until halfway through, following the tornado kick and zuopan posture.

this set master deyang is doing in this video is shaohuogun, from yuan dynasty, older than fengmogun from ming dynasty.

check my youtube channel and you'll see several videos of students at his school in china practicing shaohuogun as well. here's the first one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fisyGhle3QA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9ipwVvmAYQ&feature=related ( Cool Video )
This video has one move that is in the book, shown at 1:12/13/14
Excact same turn and end posture.

The titel above sais - Shaolin Magic Mad Staff ( google translates that website for me)

"mad" comes from fēng 疯 and magic comes from mó 魔, but the video above is a fengmogun set from a different system- pigua. many systems have a fengmogun set.



And after seeing this impressive Shi Yan Mings performence I am in the dust again, because maybe one posture looks like the one in the enchanted staff book wich has 86 postures

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChchkCb_sfE

this is the shaolin fengmogun set from ming dynasty. comparing to shaohuogun you can see they are identical until halfway through. the only other video i've seen of it youtube is this one performed by a guy who learned it from shi yanming at a seminar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KgGonTyj2U&feature=related

but this guy does it in a more modernized fashion, and even shi yanming doesnt do the drunken arhat stepping which is called "blind man searches path" in the movement names.

these steps are after the tornado kick and zuopan sitting posture, when you do several hits on the ground on either side, then turn around and do it again. there should be drunken arhat stepping there, but they just stand still.

the way master deyang does it makes the stepping very obvious. these are remnants of the lost drunken arhat boxing methods, (zuì luóhàn 醉罗汉), apparently lost even more now.

[RenDaHai]

@LFJ

I agree with everything you said about the names. THats absolutely correct, there is always confusion with this form. From Magic wind staff is the common mistranslation of Crazy Demon staff. 'Ni Feng le' implies not just crazy but wild and crazy so 'raging demon staff' would also be a good (and cool) translation I think :-)

On 'zui luohan' its not lost, I'm pleased to say Yong Wen in Kai feng still retains the traditional zui luohan quan, one of the 18 luohan forms. (he has about 4 of the 18). And as I'm sure you'll be pleased to hear its nothing like the modern zui quan performance. (He also has a Zui ba xian form from another style in tian jin and loosely related to wudan).

[LFJ]

On 'zui luohan' its not lost, I'm pleased to say Yong Wen in Kai feng still retains the traditional zui luohan quan, one of the 18 luohan forms. (he has about 4 of the 18). And as I'm sure you'll be pleased to hear its nothing like the modern zui quan performance.

awesome. must see. most only know of it through written records, and the remnants found in sets like fengmogun and the laojia luohanquan/ daluohanquan sets.

right, modern zuiquan in shaolin is mostly created by the performers, and of course has nothing to do with zui luohan.

[Eugene]

The student of De Yang performing - Shaohuogun is very nice LFJ

I saw alot of videos again today but nothing that looked like my book, I also saw a very cool video of - Shaolin 5 Tiger Sheep Staff by a Monk that looked almost like Liu Zhenhai ....
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTQyNjA2ODg=.html
But maybe you already saw it !

I still wonder why Dr. Ting who bought this book hired a translator and used the words - enchanted and ferocious - for the book to publish it in english.

[LFJ]

yeah, shi dejun... he's very good and knows some old stuff. thats from his giant video series.

as for chinese "translators", they're not always so fluent in english over there. :)

[LFJ]

eugene,

the book you showed me says fēngmózhàng (疯魔杖), instead of fēngmógùn (疯魔棍).

zhàng (杖) is like a walking stick, obviously longer than a regular gùn (棍) in the pictures. gùn (棍) is the weapon these others sets use.

but the characters for "ferocious enchanted" fēngmó (疯魔) are the same "wild demon" characters i was talking about before. just the weapon is different.

[Eugene]

Thank you very much LFJ,

i understand things alot better now because of its * thunder sounds and lightning and howling wind *

I must turn into a wild demon to get to know the set :mad: !

:) peace

[B-Rad]

Found this nice vid of staff basics and a form: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6CW9GEkJNo

Any idea who he is and what form specifically he's teaching?

[LFJ]

thats master shi yongwen, showing the basics of shaolin stick methods.

[Eugene]

hey B-Rad i have that video on my mobile, its a pritty cool video

[Eugene]

does any one know from wich period the 36 cudgel staff is ?

[Eugene]

@LFJ,

Hi LFJ,

I downloaded a movie Shaolin Temple from Jet Li for fun, but at 07:30 I saw the actors do a form that amazingly looks an awful lot like your You Tube movie : Fengmogun from Shi Yan Ming,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPo472CG4qk ( i believe the form stars here, and before it, they filmed the temple, check from 07:30... )

I checked if I could find Shi Yan Ming perhaps in this group, but I didnt see him :)

Could something like this be accepted as a source ? And is it true that it looks amazing much like fengmogun ?

The movie is from 1979, and they have good skills.

This question never came up if i didnt watch a movie lol.

[Xian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6EJwpGlKxA

Can somebody give me a few infos on this set shown by Shi Guo Song ?


Kind regards,
Xian

[David Jamieson]

warning, 7 minutes of hippy firestaff stuff (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz30WRg2JBo)

[Eugene]

Hey Xian,

that is the eyebrow staff set. You should check out Shi Yong Wens Set, it looks almost the same, but I like Shi Yong Wens style more,

Shaolin Gunshu on you tube from Shi Yong Wen, you will see the set better,

I thing Shi Yong Wen is one of the best staff practinioners, and I myself, use this weapon the most of all.

Peace Eugene

[Xian]

Thank you Eugene,
I will check it.
Hm my question went more on if its a modern kind of Gunshu like the so called"refinded " sets. Personnally I would think its not, but I have not much knowledge about Shaolin Gung Fu.


Kind Regards,
Xian

[GeneChing]

The eyebrow staff is called qimeigun (齊眉棍) in Mandarin. It literally means "level of eyebrow staff" but that's a bit of a mouthful.

I might be starting this form soon. One of my coaches, Yantuo, seems to want to teach it to us. I'm looking forward to that as I've never studied it. I'll have to get a thread specific to this going if it happens.

[Xian]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LW4v7eDBIE

You can find now different versions of the Shao Huo Gun on youtube. Even the full version demonstrated by De Yang.


Kind regards,
Xian