Think Fast Part Deux

[MightyB]

Building off of Ray's post- You still have only 8 months to prepare for the fight of your life- but you cannot change styles... so, what would you change about your training habits to prepare for the fight?

[MasterKiller]

Building off of Ray's post- You still have only 8 months to prepare for the fight of your life- but you cannot change styles... so, what would you change about your training habits to prepare for the fight?

1. No forms.

2. Increased circuit training for conditioning.

3. Refine diet.

4. Cross-train

5. Drill

6. Drill

7. Spar

8. Spar

9. Spar

[SimonM]

MK pwnz the truth.

[Lucas]

Ya, MK kinda finished this one quick.

and on your off time watch the toxic avenger. cuz hes a bad mo fo

[MightyB]

Try to be more specific (drills, goals, and expected outcomes, etc).

For example: Goal- get better at spontaneously defending against kicks. Drill- find a good kicker, or couple of kickers- practice by having them kick single types of kicks against you until your comfortable with the solo defenses (no counter attacks at this time), then have them start kicking you with combinations- light, medium, then hard until you have a 90 percent plus spontaneous defense against kicking attacks.

[firepalm]

What MK said plus added weight training.

[SAAMAG]

I'd say that weight training is part of his cross training section (4)

[MightyB]

What MK said plus added weight training.

See- this is where I have a problem with being vague.

Weight training by itself is pretty worthless unless you want to impress the chicks at the beach. Curls- shrugs- the billions of variations of bench pressing, etc- useless unless you are using proven methodology from sports specific strength training.

Sports specific strength training is extremely valuable and can be very different than just "weight training". These include programs such as "Bigger, faster, stronger" BFS, Plyometrics, Kettlebell, core fitness--- etc.

MK gave the vague- "duh" answer. We all know that sparring drilling, etc work- to a degree, but- like "weight training" sparring can be of limited value.

I'll use golf as a comparison- you can golf everyday and only get "so" good. To be awesome- you have to train specific aspects within the game. It can get boring hitting 100 balls out of the sand trap using a specific stroke technique day after day- but the payoff is well worth it.

Sparring / Randori is the same- you have to work for specific goals and reasons. Whether it's a specific throw, counter, defensive tactic- you have to get it perfect. Free sparring / Shiai is good every once in while- but by itself has a limited value because you can only grow "so" much if that's all you do.

So be specific with the answer of how would you train within your system if you had only 8 months to get ready for the fight of your life.

[MightyB]

MK already trains his guys hardcore- so it's like asking him to describe breathing- it's just something he does.

I was hoping to get a couple of specific strategies for how people can start training their guys better- so it's going to be difficult for the guys that are already doing it to describe what they do or what their approach is- but for the sake of kung fu- simplify a couple of descriptions on training methodology that people can incorporate into their programs to start producing better fighters.

[Lucas]

well if we are still deciding between the 3 scenarios ray posed; UFC title fight, Bar Fight, Unarmed Home Invasion, I think there are some deciding factors in each.

UFC title fight. You know its coming. You get to square off with your opponent. You get to study your opponent before hand, ie: style, methods, weakness/mistakes...etc.

Barfight. Could very well be a suprise from behind. A good chance you will be intoxicated, you are in a bar after all. Your opponent will likely be intoxicated. Area weapons may be involved.

Unarmed Home Invasion: You may get to know the intruder is there before he knows you are there. You may not. Area weapons are at your disposal most likely. If you are in my home, actual weapons are located around the house.

That being determined.

The UFC title fight (or more practicle, UFC debute fight, how many of us can take the UFC title 8 months from now?) of course will require very structured and strict training. The major specifics of this would be the right people to train you. Professionals. Find the best that you can. This is easy, do your research. Find the pro's and do as your told. Train hard, and do your best come fight night. This is actually the easiest scenario to train for. Its very structured, you know exactly what you can expect as far as what will be allowed and what will not be allowed. This is a sport you can prepare for. After that, its all in how much energy you put in, how much natural talent you have, and how good your trainers and training partners are.

Barfight. you will want to be comfortable in the clinch and on the ground. Most likely. Not a definate, but it is always better to be prepared than not. There is a good solid chance this fight will not last very long, and may end with strikes. Either via hands, or chairs/beerbottles/mugs. Boxing would come in very handy here. You need to be able to keep good cover and respond quickly. Especially to a suprise attack. Recovery would be good to focus on. Remember here, limited space, close quarters, and you are outweighed. Think fast and grab a weapon if you can before he does. Althought an even greater possibility here is that the fight will be broken up.

Self Defense Unarmed Home Invasion. History tells us many times the defender will be able to utilize a weapon in this scenario. Kitchen knife, bat, gun, sword, nunchaku, dog, etc. If the perp is unarmed, per scenario, you have a great advantage here. You are in YOUR home. You know the lay out, where the weapons are, where you keep your gun. If you are able to know there is an intruder before he knows where you are. I would wager you need no martial training at all if you can get to your gun. Hold him at bay or shoot him. If you are not able to procure a weapon, striking and grappling of course would be very handy. Unless you have a very large home, again limited space. There is also a very high chance the intruder will BECOME armed once knowledge is present you will be defending your home.

IMO the home invasion may be the most difficult to train for, a higher chance of one or both parties becoming armed. No ref. No bouncer. Just you, and the perp.

[Lucas]

MK already trains his guys hardcore- so it's like asking him to describe breathing- it's just something he does.

I was hoping to get a couple of specific strategies for how people can start training their guys better- so it's going to be difficult for the guys that are already doing it to describe what they do or what their approach is- but for the sake of kung fu- simplify a couple of descriptions on training methodology that people can incorporate into their programs to start producing better fighters.

In light of this. Aside from specifics on body conditioning via numerous training tools and programs you can use, pad work is big.

Of course keep your pad work goal oriented. Focus on your main weapons, IE; your bread and butter striking. Having someone who knows how to train you with pads is a serious boon.

Clinch work. A large number of places already do this, and if they dont getting started is a good idea.

Groundfighting. Pick your flavor and then start cross training. Do your research on the gyms you visit. Dont just pick one place and dedicate, shop around.

A big factor here is the trainers. If you currently arent doing a good number of things, such as hard sparring and pad work, it can be difficult to start if you dont have the guys there to impliment the process. If you arent doing it, chances are you dont have someone on sight that is experienced enough to lead you with knowledge.

edit: Cross training is going to be necessary here for many. Such as if you are not being trained in groundfighting/wrestling/subbmisions, you are going to have to branch out and find what you need.

[Lucas]

funny that this one stayed pretty much on topic, but people only posted in the ones that were de railed.

this one, on topic, was ignored and forgotten.


I mourn the death of the on topic threads.

[Ray Pina]

Again, what MK said. But I'd work with someone to come up with a specific game plan for each scenario.... have a plan A, B and C for each position on the ground. Determine if you want to stand or immediately look for a takedown.

Biggest lesson I've learned from my new coach is preparation is everything.

[Lucas]

whats your gameplan for being attacked in your home in the night by suprise, by someone you know nothing about?

what if hes in your kitchen and grabs a cleaver, or a screwdriver.

what if you are taking a shower and someone comes at you while you are rising soap out of your eyes and hair.

[Ray Pina]

whats your gameplan for being attacked in your home in the night by suprise, by someone you know nothing about?
Grab my machette and hatchet... believe it or not this scenario was a real possability 12 months ago.

Though not so easy to get in undetected. An ounce of prevention...


what if hes in your kitchen and grabs a cleaver, or a screwdriver.
Same as above. Though thinking about filing for a gun permit, as well as one to carry. It's not uncommon down here.


what if you are taking a shower and someone comes at you while you are rising soap out of your eyes and hair.

Sounds gay, but take him down immediately where I'll have more control and feeling. And then kill the man as quickly as possible.

Though if he can get in undetected, get into my bathroom, chances are if he's that good he's smart enough to come strapped and I'd soon be dead.

[Lucas]

Ya, I was thinking about the shower thing. He might just have a knife or something. Or was unaware you were there till he heard the shower. Im thinking, if possible, try and wrap him up with the shower curtain.

but ya, if he has a gun, your finished.

I was involved in a home invasion a few years back. 3 guys 2 with handguns. really freaking scary. I wake up to crashing sound of the door splintering and a 250+lb mexican dude chocking me out. I managed to knee him in the head a couple times, at which point he let up on my windpipe and I yelled for my roomate (i live alone now) and, luckily for me, he came out pumping his shotty. i didnt always keep the best or safest of company back in the day...

anywho

after I was able to free myself from the big guy I kept him in between me and the other two guys hoping they wouldnt f@cking shoot me. he threw a vase of flowers at me, which i suprisingly dodged, but it put a hole in the wall.

I had a machete under the couch I was sleeping on, but was never able to reach it. In my case, that may have been a good thing.

after they saw that we were all prone to be shotgun food, they took off before bullets had to fly.

in the after math, the only thing i could really think of was taht I was glad i managed to dodge the vase, cuz it would have hit me right in the face.

[iron_leg_dave]

Ya, I was thinking about the shower thing. He might just have a knife or something. Or was unaware you were there till he heard the shower. Im thinking, if possible, try and wrap him up with the shower curtain.

but ya, if he has a gun, your finished.

I was involved in a home invasion a few years back. 3 guys 2 with handguns. really freaking scary. I wake up to crashing sound of the door splintering and a 250+lb mexican dude chocking me out. I managed to knee him in the head a couple times, at which point he let up on my windpipe and I yelled for my roomate (i live alone now) and, luckily for me, he came out pumping his shotty. i didnt always keep the best or safest of company back in the day...

anywho

after I was able to free myself from the big guy I kept him in between me and the other two guys hoping they wouldnt f@cking shoot me. he threw a vase of flowers at me, which i suprisingly dodged, but it put a hole in the wall.

I had a machete under the couch I was sleeping on, but was never able to reach it. In my case, that may have been a good thing.

after they saw that we were all prone to be shotgun food, they took off before bullets had to fly.

in the after math, the only thing i could really think of was taht I was glad i managed to dodge the vase, cuz it would have hit me right in the face.

**** thats crazy. I get worried about it a lot, since I live in a bad neighborhood myself. Vehicles get stolen out of the driveway etc, but the cops still don't patrol it.
I don't own a handgun, but I have rifles. Typically, if I hear a noise though, and have to check it out, I bring a sword, and just go really quietly. If I saw someone I would stay hidden. They can take my ****, but if they got into reach they would get pierced faster than they could blink and I'd be gone again.

If you fire shots, your probably going to jail, even if they break in. If you run them through, especially somewhere like here where someone is always screaming and there is always a fight going on, you just have to ditch the body and you won't go to jail.

It's sad, I have broken into places as a teenager. I wouldn't be quick to kill anyone, since I'm glad no one ever killed me. But when it comes to the safety of the other people in my house, I might not have a choice.

Anyway, multiple people with guns, one would hope you have enough warning to gather a gun. Just firing a few shots and a deep bellowing voice will usually send people back out the window.

The last time someone broke in, I was bucked neked. I could have def beat the christ out of him. I just flicked the light on, walked up to him and said "Hey! what the ****, you need something?" obviouslly ready to fight neked or not, and he said "wrong door" and took off. Haha.

[Mr Punch]

Weight training by itself is pretty worthless unless you want to impress the chicks at the beach. Curls- shrugs- the billions of variations of bench pressing, etc- useless unless you are using proven methodology from sports specific strength training.It's only vague because you assume Firepalm has the same basic lack of knowledge about weight training as you do! You assume MK trains his guys hardcore, but you assume Firepalm knows jack.

OK, OK, to cut you some slack there are still

a) a lot of people out there who think weight training is hundreds of curls, shrugs and benches
b) a lot of people practising kung fu and other T(and non-T)MA who don't know anything about scientific training

But when I saw Firepalm's post (and knowing a little about Firepalm) I immediately thought 'Me too!' (well, actually I was going to post it anyway...). And you're talking about the problems with being vague? Well that comes with the territory of hypothetical situation questions.


Sports specific strength training is extremely valuable and can be very different than just "weight training". These include programs such as "Bigger, faster, stronger" BFS, Plyometrics, Kettlebell, core fitness--- etc. While I agree with sports specific training essentially, this idea has blown up ridiculously recently.

If you stick to compound lifts (NO isolated stuff) ALL of the lifts you do will be specific to your everyday existance and fight training into the bargain.

A few examples:

squat: works a big push on the whole kinetic chain from heels thru thighs/hips, up the spine - exactly what you want for any pushing activity, be it in the clinch, punching, shrimping etc. If you want it in CMA-friendly terms it works your body structure and the connectivity from the ground up.

dead: works a big pull on the whole kinetic chain from heels thru thighs/hips, up the spine - exactly what you want for any pulling activity, be it in the clinch, an armbar, a lop sao etc

bench: dunno, I hate it and do it reluctantly, but I'd guess it's balancing out all the back exercises any good programme has. It's also working the shoulders and triceps, and again therefore must come in handy for punching, pushing etc.

lunge: same with any assymetrical exercise it works the girdle of muscles used for twisting: the hip flexors, the lower back, the thighs, the glutes - and so all of your so-important core muscles you're goona use every time you punch or kick...

I could go on. I haven't mentioned any supposedly 'martial arts specific' exercises, yet they are all 'martial arts specific exercises', 'extremely valuable' and yet 'just weight training'.

BTW, I do most of the exercises for kettlebells with an off-weighted dumbbell: these exercises aren't new, and while I could get them if I could afford them (they're [i]ridiculously[i] expensive in Japan) kettlebells are only better in that they have less predictable patterns of movement... until you get used to them and then they're just another dumbell. With my dumbell I can choose to put 20 kgs on one side and 10 on the other; or just 15 on one end and none on the other; or just exercise hanging the dumbbell off a twisted hand towel... so in many ways they're more versatile.

They're just another example of a fad for martial artists along with vague harping on about specific exercises! No offence, just speaking my mind.

So, onto 'specifics'. I would do as MK said with extra weights: compound lifts for core development all through (as mentioned plus dumbbell rows, pull-downs, pull-ups, chins, weighted push-ups, weighetd ball crunches, presses, farmer's/waiters walks, drags etc), maybe low reps with big weights for pure strength at the start, drop the weights and more reps for anaerobic endurance in the middle, and then back to strength towards the end (8 months is easily enough to play with some effective periodization).

[MightyB]

It's only vague because you assume Firepalm has the same basic lack of knowledge about weight training as you do! You assume MK trains his guys hardcore, but you assume Firepalm knows jack.

OK, OK, to cut you some slack there are still

a) a lot of people out there who think weight training is hundreds of curls, shrugs and benches
b) a lot of people practising kung fu and other T(and non-T)MA who don't know anything about scientific training

But when I saw Firepalm's post (and knowing a little about Firepalm) I immediately thought 'Me too!' (well, actually I was going to post it anyway...). And you're talking about the problems with being vague? Well that comes with the territory of hypothetical situation questions.

While I agree with sports specific training essentially, this idea has blown up ridiculously recently.

If you stick to compound lifts (NO isolated stuff) ALL of the lifts you do will be specific to your everyday existance and fight training into the bargain.

A few examples:

squat: works a big push on the whole kinetic chain from heels thru thighs/hips, up the spine - exactly what you want for any pushing activity, be it in the clinch, punching, shrimping etc. If you want it in CMA-friendly terms it works your body structure and the connectivity from the ground up.

dead: works a big pull on the whole kinetic chain from heels thru thighs/hips, up the spine - exactly what you want for any pulling activity, be it in the clinch, an armbar, a lop sao etc

bench: dunno, I hate it and do it reluctantly, but I'd guess it's balancing out all the back exercises any good programme has. It's also working the shoulders and triceps, and again therefore must come in handy for punching, pushing etc.

lunge: same with any assymetrical exercise it works the girdle of muscles used for twisting: the hip flexors, the lower back, the thighs, the glutes - and so all of your so-important core muscles you're goona use every time you punch or kick...

I could go on. I haven't mentioned any supposedly 'martial arts specific' exercises, yet they are all 'martial arts specific exercises', 'extremely valuable' and yet 'just weight training'.

BTW, I do most of the exercises for kettlebells with an off-weighted dumbbell: these exercises aren't new, and while I could get them if I could afford them (they're [i]ridiculously[i] expensive in Japan) kettlebells are only better in that they have less predictable patterns of movement... until you get used to them and then they're just another dumbell. With my dumbell I can choose to put 20 kgs on one side and 10 on the other; or just 15 on one end and none on the other; or just exercise hanging the dumbbell off a twisted hand towel... so in many ways they're more versatile.

They're just another example of a fad for martial artists along with vague harping on about specific exercises! No offence, just speaking my mind.

So, onto 'specifics'. I would do as MK said with extra weights: compound lifts for core development all through (as mentioned plus dumbbell rows, pull-downs, pull-ups, chins, weighted push-ups, weighetd ball crunches, presses, farmer's/waiters walks, drags etc), maybe low reps with big weights for pure strength at the start, drop the weights and more reps for anaerobic endurance in the middle, and then back to strength towards the end (8 months is easily enough to play with some effective periodization).

Actually- without knowing it- you made my point. I didn't assume anything about Firepalm, what I assumed is that from a reader's perspective, "weight training" isn't a good answer as what you wrote in the 2nd part of your post.

The spirit of this post is to be detailed with training methods so that a reader that knows absolutely nothing about goal oriented training can walk away with some good ideas of how they can get to that next level.

BTW- good idea with the unbalanced dumbells- I would've never thought of that on my own- I'm going to ad that to my routine. ;)

[Mr Punch]

Oh. Doh.

Yeah, I decided on the unbalanced dumbbells when I found out how much kettlebells are in this country. Then I read a load of stuff backing up my feeling on KBs. Try the towel thing too, it can make a simple exercise a lot more compound and improve your grip too.

[MasterKiller]

This is how I run my classes, and I'm sure there are better ways.

I work skillsets on a monthly rotation. Every week, we focus on a certian discipline:

Week 1: San Shou
Week 2: Submission wrestling
Week 3: MMA
Week 4: Submission wrestling

I run 1.5 hours class, three days a week.

Every class starts with a 10-minute, instructor-led circuit warm up. I have three warm up routines that I use - two different routines for stand-up days and one routine for wrestling days. The routines use exercise specific to those skillsets, with regular exercises like squats and jumping jacks added in. For example, on wrestling days, I use bridges, sit-outs, sprawls, etc.. in the circuit. On stand up days, I use punching combos, knees, and leg kicking/blocking techniques in the circuit.

After the warm up, we partner up and do two 2-minute rounds of pummeling. One round is pummeling the body lock, the other is pummeling against the neck clinch.
This is a cooperative drill.

Then, we drill 3 or 4 techniques for 40 minutes, specific to the discipline we are working. If it's stand up, I use one class that week purley for pad work, either with mitts or Muay Thai pads. If it's wreslting, I use one class that week purely for takedowns or throws.

We ALWAYS DRILL in 2-minute rounds. Otherwise, people do it once or twice and then start joking around.

So, if it's a San Shou week, the schedule might look like this
--Day 1: Drill shielding against straight punch, cross, and hook.
--Day 2: Entering the clinch off a straight punch, off a cross, or off a hook
--Day 3: Pad work - combos using straight punch, cross, and hook

If it's a wrestling week, the schedule might look like this:
--Day 1: Single Leg and Double Leg takedowns
--Day 2: Attacks from the mount
--Day 3--Escaping the mount

If it's an MMA week, the schedule might look like this:
--Day 1: Striking from the guard and the mount, holding positon
--Day 2: Defending strikes from the guard and mount w/ escapes
--Day 3: Pad work: Jab + right kick low, Jab +Cross + Left Kick low, Jab + right kick body, Jab +Cross + Left Kick body, Jab + right kick head, Jab +Cross + Left Kick head

The last 30 minutes of class we go live. Everyone rotates in for at least two 2-minute rounds (San Shou and MMA) or multiple 5-minute rounds (Wrestling). We get more rounds in on wrestling days because I can run 4 two-man groups on my mat at once, where as on striking days really only two guys can go at once.

On wreslting days, we sometimes start the round already in a situation: mount, side control, back control, or guard. So one guy has to at least attempt an escape we worked in class before he can do anything else; and if you have someone that's not so good at getting a dominant position, he at least gets some experience trying to hold one.

I spend the last 10 minutes doing a Tabata conditioning circuit, usually involving Kettlebells, Throwing bags, and Heavy bag work.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

sweet schedule!

[MasterKiller]

Because I have such limited time (I rent the facility from a karate school), I have to make it as efficient as possible.

The only difference I make is when someone has a competition coming up, we increase their live rounds and add some conditioning routines between rounds.