View Full Version : style.
with all this chatter of style going on about the boards(i mean i do realize it is a martial arts forum), i thought i'd share my understanding of the term... style.
style in conjuction with the concepts of martial arts...
style is the reflection of concepts, principles, and ideas physically expressed thru ones individual body. each of us has different strengths and weaknesses, by capitalizing on them we discover way's to strengthen and harmonize our bodies. in this day and age(much like previous ones) people are divided against themselves... this vying for "whose style is the best" is self-evidence enough of just how deep those divisions run. what people tend to forget is the simple fact that in nature, all is one... everything around us is the manifestation of the same energy; yet this energy maintains it's individuality because of how it is expressed. by directing our time and/in energy to the practice of self-defense, we will naturally find that we can also save and manage this time and energy by gleaning from those masters and stylists about and before us. by personally assimilating and incorporating into our practice the concepts, principles, and idea's which best suit our own unique natures, we will unlock the treasure of our hearts, peace security, and sense of purpose. we will conquer our fears; yet each of us has to do it alone. so by this reasoning, our(ones) style is a physical expression of our spiritual and mental bodies; an everchanging reflection of the nature of energy... in essence, martial arts is a lifestyle.
"some flowers are more common than others."
sihing
09-12-2008, 03:42 PM
with all this chatter of style going on about the boards(i mean i do realize it is a martial arts forum), i thought i'd share my understanding of the term... style.
style in conjuction with the concepts of martial arts...
style is the reflection of concepts, principles, and ideas physically expressed thru ones individual body. each of us has different strengths and weaknesses, by capitalizing on them we discover way's to strengthen and harmonize our bodies. in this day and age(much like previous ones) people are divided against themselves... this vying for "whose style is the best" is self-evidence enough of just how deep those divisions run. what people tend to forget is the simple fact that in nature, all is one... everything around us is the manifestation of the same energy; yet this energy maintains it's individuality because of how it is expressed. by directing our time and/in energy to the practice of self-defense, we will naturally find that we can also save and manage this time and energy by gleaning from those masters and stylists about and before us. by personally assimilating and incorporating into our practice the concepts, principles, and idea's which best suit our own unique natures, we will unlock the treasure of our hearts, peace security, and sense of purpose. we will conquer our fears; yet each of us has to do it alone. so by this reasoning, our(ones) style is a physical expression of our spiritual and mental bodies; an everchanging reflection of the nature of energy... in essence, martial arts is a lifestyle.
"some flowers are more common than others."
Best post I've read on these forums in awhile, too bad it won't be received as such from the masses:)
James
Best post I've read on these forums in awhile, too bad it won't be received as such from the masses.
it's not for the masses...
Lucas
09-12-2008, 03:52 PM
Its truth...
Minghequan
09-12-2008, 05:58 PM
style is the reflection of concepts, principles, and ideas physically expressed thru ones individual body. each of us has different strengths and weaknesses, by capitalizing on them we discover way's to strengthen and harmonize our bodies. in this day and age(much like previous ones) people are divided against themselves... this vying for "whose style is the best" is self-evidence enough of just how deep those divisions run. what people tend to forget is the simple fact that in nature, all is one... everything around us is the manifestation of the same energy; yet this energy maintains it's individuality because of how it is expressed. by directing our time and/in energy to the practice of self-defense, we will naturally find that we can also save and manage this time and energy by gleaning from those masters and stylists about and before us. by personally assimilating and incorporating into our practice the concepts, principles, and idea's which best suit our own unique natures, we will unlock the treasure of our hearts, peace security, and sense of purpose. we will conquer our fears; yet each of us has to do it alone. so by this reasoning, our(ones) style is a physical expression of our spiritual and mental bodies; an everchanging reflection of the nature of energy... in essence, martial arts is a lifestyle
I'd like to use this quote on my web site! Its the best explanation I read! Thank you!
I'd like to use this quote on my web site!it's not trademarked... be my guest.
Its the best explanation I read!it's the best explanation i ever wrote down.
Thank you!you're most welcome.
cjurakpt
09-13-2008, 05:03 PM
it's basically a question of the difference between one's personal "style" in context of whatever "system(s)" one has been exposed to / studied; in the beginning, you are "empty", so when you start studying a given approach, you are less likely to express it differently then how it was taught to you, because it's all you "know"; to wit, notice that the more dogmatic MA types tend to be the "one style forever" types - to them, self-actualization occurs within the confines of what they were taught and passing it on unaltered basically gives them a (false) sense of order and security - a lot of Korean MA (IMPE) seem to engender this sort of "devotion" to an extreme, although certainly it exists for MA of all cultures (so-called western as well); so for these people, "style" is a quantifiable objective entity; it is something that comes from without and exists as a meta-structure irrespective of the individual - inherently deterministic
in Ch'an there is the notion of "drinking the dregs of someone else's meal"; meaning that, as soon as you repeat, you cease to create (or rather, as soon as you attempt to repeat, because technically "repetition" even when intended as such is not possible), yo are simply eating someone's leftovers; now again, at the very beginning, there is necessarily a phase where one walks to the beat of a drum other than one's own, but ultimately, there comes a point where one has to resume one's own natural pace;
as such, we come to the true point which is the essence of why do we practice at all: I would suggest that the reason is freedom; what is freedom? true freedom is freedom from habit, from the unconscious, knee-jerk reactivity that draws on our experience of psychological time in order to come up with a response based on what has happened previously; in other words, if my habit is to become angry when confronted by someone in a certain way, then I will always be trapped into that reactive pattern (the analogy for MA is that every time someone attacks me, I unconsciously react a certain way that may or may not be appropriate to the actual situation, because that is how my "style" is "supposed" to react); on the other hand, when we are truly free, we have the capacity to respond as opposed to react, out of our direct awareness of the situation at hand; as such, we are able to meet life directly, without pretext; this takes a great deal of energy relative to the other way - our practice, whatever it may be, is the means by which we nourish ourselves in order to meet the challenge of life
so then we speak of one's personal style, this ontologically flows from the net of past experience combined with something else - something ineffable, something that can't be taught, something that occurs in those "a-ha!" moments - the moment when the fruit drops off of the branch on it's own; meaning that, if we have the right teacher, he / she will support those moments instead of squelching them - meaning that this is a teacher that knows, eventually, that they are providing the student with the very means of passing beyond their tutelage into something unique - that is the hallmark of a great teacher! that they hold the door open for you on your way out, with no expectation that you will do anything the way that they do it...
the danger of leaving too soon is simple: if you are still drinking from the wellspring of your teacher, then it may not be the right time to go; but once you have dug your own well and the water is flowing freely...
it's basically a question of the difference between one's personal "style" in context of whatever "system(s)" one has been exposed to / studied; you are what you practice. this is the individual beauty of the arts... personalized expression.
in the beginning, you are "empty", so when you start studying a given approach, you are less likely to express it differently then how it was taught to you, because it's all you "know";it settles and becomes your core, your source which expresses itself thru your physical body.
to wit, funny... first impression is you are in the law enforcement wavelength...
notice that the more dogmatic MA types tend to be the "one style forever" types - to them, self-actualization occurs within the confines of what they were taught and passing it on unaltered basically gives them a (false) sense of order and securityall part of the underlying concept of choice in suffering... people lacking conviction or faith tend to walk the road of suffering with others like themselves... lack of self-confidence manifests in herd mentalities...
- a lot of Korean MA (IMPE) seem to engender this sort of "devotion" to an extreme, although certainly it exists for MA of all cultures (so-called western as well); so for these people, "style" is a quantifiable objective entity; it is something that comes from without and exists as a meta-structure irrespective of the individual - inherently deterministicif a people can't even see what is across the border, they will only behave as the country they live in...
in Ch'an there is the notion of "drinking the dregs of someone else's meal";are you drinking because you are thirsty or are you merely taste testing?
meaning that, as soon as you repeat, you cease to create (or rather, as soon as you attempt to repeat, because technically "repetition" even when intended as such is not possible), yo are simply eating someone's leftovers;yet the foundations of structure are similar courses of block... it's only above grade that the individuality begins... everything has a root, yet the root does not bear the fruit.
now again, at the very beginning, there is necessarily a phase where one walks to the beat of a drum other than one's own, but ultimately, there comes a point where one has to resume one's own natural pace;such is the lesson in the nature of experience.
as such, we come to the true point which is the essence of why do we practice at all: we practice to physically manifest our experience in living... if we were to do nothing... there would be no creativity.
I would suggest that the reason is freedom; what is freedom?how can you suggest it being freedom if you do not know what freedom is?
true freedom is freedom from habit, from the unconscious, knee-jerk reactivity that draws on our experience of psychological time in order to come up with a response based on what has happened previously;aren't we free enough to choose wether we want to use something that has come before? it is a freewill universe...
in other words, if my habit is to become angry when confronted by someone in a certain way, then I will always be trapped into that reactive pattern (the analogy for MA is that every time someone attacks me, I unconsciously react a certain way that may or may not be appropriate to the actual situation, because that is how my "style" is "supposed" to react); in order to change your reactions, you must change your mindset.
on the other hand, when we are truly free, we have the capacity to respond as opposed to react, out of our direct awareness of the situation at hand;freedom does incorporate the fact that you do have options to choose from.
as such, we are able to meet life directly, without pretext; everything has a source.
this takes a great deal of energy relative to the other way - our practice, whatever it may be, is the means by which we nourish ourselves in order to meet the challenge of lifeyou are what you practice... practice makes perfect... funny... ive heard this expression expressed before...
so then we speak of one's personal style, this ontologically flows from the net of past experience combined with something else - something ineffable, something that can't be taught, something that occurs in those "a-ha!" moments enlightenment.
- the moment when the fruit drops off of the branch on it's own; meaning that, if we have the right teacher, he / she will support those moments instead of squelching them nature is the best teacher and is more gentle than the breeze.
- meaning that this is a teacher that knows, eventually, that they are providing the student with the very means of passing beyond their tutelage into something unique -in a sense they are not teachers, but messengers.
that is the hallmark of a great teacher!you are unaware that he is.
that they hold the door open for you on your way out, with no expectation that you will do anything the way that they do it...yet they will still just be themselves... no one is obliged to hold the door.
the danger of leaving too soon is simple: if you are still drinking from the wellspring of your teacher, then it may not be the right time to go;if teachers are wellsprings, it's the traveller that moves... not the spring.
but once you have dug your own well and the water is flowing freely...just be the water... then there is no need to dig the well.
cjurakpt
09-13-2008, 08:46 PM
funny... first impression is you are in the law enforcement wavelength...
by avocation, no; by temperament, situationally;
are you drinking because you are thirsty or are you merely taste testing?
who is it that is thirsty? what is there to taste at all?
how can you suggest it being freedom if you do not know what freedom is?
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams." - W. Wonka
aren't we free enough to choose wether we want to use something that has come before? it is a freewill universe...
"Where oh where is fancy bred? In the heart or in the head?" - ibid
in order to change your reactions, you must change your mindset.
this is like paddling downstream with a sieve; one must first step outside in order come in;
freedom does incorporate the fact that you do have options to choose from.
are the lady and the tiger really all that different? better to pick the door that no one is showing to you
everything has a source.
empty, without substance
you are what you practice... practice makes perfect.
as the twig is bent, so grows the tree
enlightenment.
no such thing
nature is the best teacher and is more gentle than the breeze.
my teacher is ploughing clouds
in a sense they are not teachers, but messengers.
best to kill the messenger then
you are unaware that he is.
I know exactly what he is - a no-good, low-down, yellow-toothed huckster (and he told me to say that)!
yet they will still just be themselves... no one is obliged to hold the door.
you have to hold it open in order to slam it shut...
if teachers are wellsprings, it's the traveller that moves... not the spring.
you're just drunk, so it seems like everything is moving to you; better sleep it off before propounding more lies!
just be the water... then there is no need to dig the well.
tell that to the thirsty man in the desert - will your flying spittle be enough to save him?
who is it that is thirsty?apparently the guy in the desert...
tell that to the thirsty man in the desert
will your flying spittle be enough to save him?he cars for no one in particular, cares for the whole world in general...
are the lady and the tiger really all that different?i guess that depends on which one is shaved...:p
better to pick the door that no one is showing to you.or yet you can continue on down the hallway... some doors are mean't to be blown off the hinges as you pass by.
empty, without substancevoid without form.
as the twig is bent, so grows the treetrees that grow crooked and with thorns tend to be left alone to grow into maturity... the straighter the tree, the more likely it ends up in the mill.
no such thing(enlightenment)that depends entirely if you are still walking in darkness...
[quote]
my teacher is ploughing cloudsand the wind is moving them along.
best to kill the messenger thenadvocating stagnation is striving against change.
I know exactly what he is - a no-good, low-down, yellow-toothed huckster (and he told me to say that)!actually my teeth are quite good... no cavities, all 4 wisdom teethyou're a fool to pull), and i lost my last baby tooth last year.
you have to hold it open in order to slam it shut...why have a door at all?
you're just drunk, so it seems like everything is moving to you;it would be nice if being drunk was like eating mushrooms...
better sleep it off before propounding more lies!GOOD MORNING!!! this world is a lie...
cjurakpt
09-14-2008, 06:20 AM
apparently the guy in the desert...
but I keep offering you a drink :p...
he cars for no one in particular, cares for the whole world in general...
now who said that?
i guess that depends on which one is shaved...:p
still a bald puss either way...
or yet you can continue on down the hallway... some doors are mean't to be blown off the hinges as you pass by.
just the ones we've hung ourselves...
why have a door at all?
some people think they'll keep the riff raff out, but fail to notice that thieves are climbing in through the windows (best way to keep 'em out is to just tear down the house anyway)
void without form.
Sariputra's heard that one already...
trees that grow crooked and with thorns tend to be left alone to grow into maturity... the straighter the tree, the more likely it ends up in the mill.
why bother to stand up then?
that depends entirely if you are still walking in darkness...
then just sit down...
and the wind is moving them along.
the clouds are standing still; where are you going in such a hurry?
advocating stagnation is striving against change.
this is paddling upstream, thinking the world is going backwards...
it would be nice if being drunk was like eating mushrooms...
what did the mushroom say to you?
GOOD MORNING!!! this world is a lie...
we've all been bamboozled, brother! but freshly ground coffee still smells great when you wake up...
so, how's the grass hut coming along?
but I keep offering you a drink...where's the cup?
now who said that?a messenger...
still a bald puss either way...the thought of comparing a woman and a tiger never crossed my mind. thank you for this new and original idea.
just the ones we've hung ourselves...actually if we hung ourselves from the door beam, most likely the door was already open...
some people think they'll keep the riff raff out, but fail to notice that thieves are climbing in through the windows (best way to keep 'em out is to just tear down the house anyway)if you have no concept of ownership, thieves cease to exist.
Sariputra's heard that one already...probably because people keep repeating it...
why bother to stand up then?a tree has no choice, but to grow...
then just sit down...then you'll be sitting in darkness...
the clouds are standing still; where are you going in such a hurry?to make sure it's safe for the clouds to move.
this is paddling upstream, thinking the world is going backwards...paddling upstream is better exercise than paddling downstream...
what did the mushroom say to you?i couldn't hear it, i was too busy listening...
we've all been bamboozled, brother!isn't it great when you realize this. some folks fail to snap out of it.
but freshly ground coffee still smells great when you wake up...so does marijuana.
so, how's the grass hut coming along?not very good... the girlfriend keeps mowing the lawn.:D
Mr Punch
09-14-2008, 07:58 AM
Uki, do believe in this? (http://www.revelatorium.com/) That's some bat**** right there.
Uki, do believe in this? (http://www.revelatorium.com/)you should read the whole thing. it's quite interesting.
That's some bat**** right there.if you were referring to bat guano, i can assure you it is explosive.
cjurakpt
09-14-2008, 01:26 PM
where's the cup?
I've provided the inside half of it, the rest is up to you
a messenger...
kill, kill, killl...
the thought of comparing a woman and a tiger never crossed my mind. thank you for this new and original idea.
I thought it was one of yours ;)
if you have no concept of ownership, thieves cease to exist.
I'll gladly help you with that - I'll be at your house by 10:00 - if you leave all of your valuables neatly arranged on the front porch, there's less chance I'll accidently wake you up loading them into my car
probably because people keep repeating it...
a chorus of talking corpses...
a tree has no choice, but to grow...
in both directions...
then you'll be sitting in darkness...
better to keep still then stubbing one's toe
to make sure it's safe for the clouds to move.
as long as you're not the one providing the wind
paddling upstream is better exercise than paddling downstream...
always making pearls, you oyster...
i couldn't hear it, i was too busy listening...
I'd say it again, but I forgot what was said
isn't it great when you realize this. some folks fail to snap out of it.
haul water, chop wood (if I said that I made that up, would you believe it?)
so does marijuana.
not my cup of tea, but to each his own
not very good... the girlfriend keeps mowing the lawn.:D
then you are truly a lucky man, and I wish you continued joy and prosperity!
I've provided the inside half of it, the rest is up to youhalf a cup doesn't hold water... unless of course it is a horizontal half, which in that case it'd be a small cup and we'd have to share it.
kill, kill, killl...apparently you realize the multitude of benefits of being outside the karmic cycle.:)
I thought it was one of yours ok. you're right... i've always wanted atleast a one night stand with a woman born in the year of the tiger... just like myself.
I'll gladly help you with that - I'll be at your house by 10:00 - if you leave all of your valuables neatly arranged on the front porch, there's less chance I'll accidently wake you up loading them into my carif there is nothing to value, there is nothing to be left on the porch... and if you think you are stealing it, it is because you have attached a value to it... i don't value anything so that nothing is to be desired to be stolen...
a chorus of talking corpses...it shows they said something worth remembering...
in both directions...but only percieved in one...
better to keep still then stubbing one's toeunless of course sitting still doesn't get you anywhere.
as long as you're not the one providing the windtigers are the wind...
always making pearls, you oyster...gives something for someone to look for...
I'd say it again, but I forgot what was saidthe sign of a good memory.
haul water, chop wood (if I said that I made that up, would you believe it?)of course.
not my cup of tea, but to each his ownperhaps you should be a guest more often, rather than the host...
then you are truly a lucky man, and I wish you continued joy and prosperity!we do share with the rabbits... :)
cjurakpt
09-14-2008, 04:02 PM
half a cup doesn't hold water... unless of course it is a horizontal half, which in that case it'd be a small cup and we'd have to share it.
I suspect we've drunk together before...
if there is nothing to value, there is nothing to be left on the porch...
I leave with less than what I came with - how generous you are!
perhaps you should be a guest more often, rather than the host...
gladly; what time does the party start?
I suspect we've drunk together before...
just not in this lifetime.
Ray Pina
09-15-2008, 06:29 AM
. by personally assimilating and incorporating into our practice the concepts, principles, and idea's which best suit our own unique natures
You train hard to change your nature. When you enter training you are not a warrior, most likely mentally and physically week. Many people don't think that they are. Then they compare themselves to those that are, real warriors, and it's apparent.
It's important not to think too much and just train. The training will forge you. You will develop concepts, principles, ideas and abilities you couldn't dream of. Naturally you will gravitate, resort to those that you like best, bring the results you seek most consistently.
we will unlock the treasure of our hearts, peace security, and sense of purpose. we will conquer our fears; yet each of us has to do it alone. so by this reasoning, our(ones) style is a physical expression of our spiritual and mental bodies; an everchanging reflection of the nature of energy. ..
Too much bull$hit. Just train.
in essence, martial arts is a life
Verdad (true)
Many "martial artists" claim this, but few are lucky enough, or dedicated enough, to really make it so. It's not easy. It requires a lot of self discipline. But once you get a taste for it is their an alternative? Can you ever go back to being a flabby, unconscious of what you put in your body, soft in your resolve civilian?
You train hard to change your nature.no... you train hard to discover your nature.
When you enter training you are not a warrior,actually you are... you enter training to re-discover this fact.
most likely mentally and physically weak. usually the order of transformation progresses as such... first the spirit becomes awake, this leads to the development of mental capabilities, finally we incorporate all we are learning into our physical expressions of all we understand.
Many people don't think that they are. thinking and kinowing are two different things... people may in fact think they are inferior, but yet it doesn't mean they are if they know it is not true.
Then they compare themselves to those that are, real warriors, and it's apparent.and tell me sir... what is a real warrior?
It's important not to think too much and just train.your training is the result of your thinking... obviously you put some thought into how, why, and what you train...
The training will forge you. finally something we can agree on.
You will develop concepts, principles, ideas and abilities you couldn't dream of. (back to disagreeing again) our concepts, principles, and ideas, stem from our dreams and thoughts that went into creating them and believing in them in the first place... the whole reason one practices is because of a thought or dream of improving ones life.
Naturally you will gravitate, resort to those that you like best, bring the results you seek most consistently. i like to call this concept capitalizing on your strengths and weaknesses. obviously if you are a world class sprinter, you need not work at running...
Too much bull$hit. Just train.like i posted to someone else... it is not how often you train or how long you train, it is the quality of the effort you put into it.
Verdad (true)alas... you have now agreed with me for one... we are 1:1... my serve now...
Many "martial artists" claim this,and many people like to sue...
but few are lucky enough, i must say from experience that tigers are more than lucky enough.
or dedicated enough, to really make it so.being a martial artist is a lifestyle... one must forge and mold daily life into this way of being.
It's not easy. it's not hard.
It requires a lot of self discipline.it requires conviction.
But once you get a taste for it is their an alternative?there is no alternative for the truth.
Can you ever go back to being a flabby, unconscious of what you put in your body, soft in your resolve civilian?actually i was never flabby... i was always skinny... after i walked 1000 miles on the appalachian trail i gained 26 pounds (mostly leg muscle), this gave my initial practice a great advantage; they say that kung fu is 70% lower body and 30% upper body... once i realized my lower body was back in shape i began concentrating on my upper body, hence all the juggling iron balls and such... now i am a mason and all i do, all day, everyday, is training... lifting stone, lay block, carrying bricks, pushing wheelbarrows, climbing scaffolding, loading trucks, etc... i chose this line of work so that i could incorporate the aspects of martial arts training into a lifestyle that revolves around making money, paying for the bills, raising the children, and still being able to find the time to practice form and exercise outside of my other responsibilities... and then on top of it all i choose to come onto these forums and share my experience at the expense of being the butt of everyones nice little community jokes, when in fact the only jokes around here are all of you ignorant terds who are more than half armchair martial arts warriors protected by long distances and a computer screen... so please... feel free to respond, i will be more than happy to reply. this is what i choose to do... and i am enjoying every minute of it. for anyone interested in my physical address, i'd be more than willing to share it... but mind that you not march up to my door with evil intent because i will hang your lifeless body from my catawba tree for the turkey vultures to feast on...
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