Critical look at Kung Fu

[Ray Pina]

Thought something about my Kung Fu experience today, and am curious if others have seen this as well.

I love Hsing-I and its power. It's the best Kung Fu I've studied. Yet, it's approach seems to be one of the one-shot KO. Then I think about Wing Chun, Mantis, Hung Gar.... it was always based on jam or stick, open and hit. But then what? Good guys don't go down that easy, if at all. And that one shot just might provoke a rage-filled flurry.

I don't want this to be a "hater" thread. But this does smell of the "how you train" argument.

Have others seen this? Or are you training to truly finish up: hit and hit again. And again. And then break something.

[uki]

i personally train as if every hit is the fight ender... if one misses this objective the next one is the fight ender... i believe it is a mentality. i like to express my fists as comets or planets colliding... animals and insects get boring after a while. :)

how about a blackhole sucking light and matter as a form concept to envision while training.

[TenTigers]

not everyone teaches or interpets Hung Kuen, or Southern Mantis the same. It depends on how you were taught. "Gwok Si, Gwok-Faht." Each Sifu has his own method.
The Hung Kuen that I do, as well as The Jook Lum Mantis I study has never been about one strike, but quite the opposite. Both styles use a barrage tactic.

In Hung-Ga, we throw bombs, continuously in rapid-fire succession. Yes, as Uki says, each strike is thrown as if it is a final blow-but we throw six of'em.
In Southern Mantis, the hands come out like serpents, darting in and out, over and under, around and through,again, continuously striking to vital points, like a swarm of hornets.

Don't confuse Gung-Faht (power method training) with Kuen-Faht (fighting technique method training)
The Hung-Ga stylist may play his forms,"One breath, one strike," and gather to generate power in each strike but he does not fight like that.
Likewise, SPM forms contains the methods, but the hands are taught in the partner training, where at higher levels, it is fast, continuous hands. Also Sam Bo Ging trains the body, breath, power (Gung-Faht) as well as the technique (Kuen-Faht) but the later forms are played much faster and closer to fighting.

Watch James Cama-Sifu's student Nick, perform the Sam Bo Ging, and then the Sup Bot Dim Kuen and you will get a glimpse of this theory.

[uki]

In Hung-Ga, we throw bombs, continuously in rapid-fire succession. only if we get backed into a corner.

Yes, as Uki says, each strike is thrown as if it is a final blow-but we throw six of'em.tigers tend to like the number 9... not 6.

[Hebrew Hammer]

Its nice to train for that kind of power, getting a chance to apply it may be another story...eventually you are going to go up against someone with 'cinderbockheadsyndrome', or iron crotch technique thats gonna laugh at your hung ga "one breath, one strike:. It happens all the time in competive martial arts...look at Chuck Liddell or Mike Tyson or some other fearsome striker who eventually meets their match in the ring. After the first 10 bombs don't work they keep going back to it because its what got them there.

My suggestion is to continue to train for power, but also train to recognize when another tactic might be more affective...plan B or C is always a good idea.

[uki]

depending on wether or not one believes in fear, this post will likewise depend on the individual... but a nice saying i aquired is this... fear not the one who practices 10,000 techniques once, but rather the one whom practices one technique 10,000 times... you are what you train. of course if one has 10,000 techniques that one has practiced 10,000 times... the saying could become obsolete. :D

[Lee Chiang Po]

This is true. Take Wing Chun for an example. There are only a few hand techniques, and they get practiced a lot. So their use can be expected to be powerful against an opponent. Punches are far more accurate and can be devestating. A punch to the point of the chin will almost always end in one being knocked out.

[Ray Pina]

Uki, it's that mentality that I'm talking about though.

"If the guy shoots, a forearm to the back of the head...."

"Or (your best technique) and the guy goes down."

I pulled those techniques off against training partners and they would stop. I've stopped a fight or two against club-level players at Throwdowns that way, but even in the one video below, I hit a young man hard enough to spin him and drop him... and he still was able to fight.

The real motive behind this discussion is that I was getting clinched by tough MMAers. Now I have some go to takedowns and ground game, but I look back at the mindset I had and think it was dangerous.

I guess in a way this leads us to the uncomfortable discussion of asking, who, or at what level have you been able to apply these one-shot fight enders. I know they are possible, I've pulled them off. But again, how reliable are they? And against who?

I know I wasn't prepared for when they didn't end the fight, and then I was facing a ****ed off guy who could take a shot and I didn't train step two, three and four.

Now my thinking is: go in, strike with a kick or punch while closing. If damage is done keep delivering. If clinched, shoot. Once the shoot, automatic side control. Or pass guard to side control. From side control looking for one of my three favorite submissions and if not mount.

Very progressive. Like a machine.

Were before I trained Pau Kuen. Pau Kuen. Pau Kuen. Pau Kuen. Forward. Backward.

[uki]

Uki, it's that mentality that I'm talking about though.of course it is the mentality...


The real motive behind this discussion is that I was getting clinched by tough MMAers. Now I have some go to takedowns and ground game, but I look back at the mindset I had and think it was dangerous.unfortunately i realize you and other McMartial Artists are bound by rules, but from experience, nothing works better when rolling around on the ground than a nice bite... tear the flesh off and chew it up... underarms, biceps, the nipples... bite and rip.


I guess in a way this leads us to the uncomfortable discussion of asking, who, or at what level have you been able to apply these one-shot fight enders. I know they are possible, I've pulled them off. But again, how reliable are they? And against who? i have only one experience with it... a guy grabbed me from behind and i did a one-step circle, the fist finished my momentum with a blast to the triple burner. out cold.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

I love Hsing-I and its power. It's the best Kung Fu I've studied. Yet, it's approach seems to be one of the one-shot KO

I find the internals to have a great progression with regards to this. From what I understand, to properly practice internal CMA, you must practice Xin Yi or Xing I or a related lineage; Tai Ji of some kind; and a type of Bagua.

This is how it was explained to me, and if I'm incorrect, or insensitive, I apologize.

Xin Yi has Muslim roots. Not that it matters at all, really, except that there's an important aspect to Xin Yi that can be traced back to the idea of Jihad, or Holy War. Yes, it sounds frightening, and it's supposed to be. The intent of Xin Yi is such that it prepares the practitioner for a Jihad - a war where one's own life is inconsequential in relation to the effort put forth for the glory of the perceived greater purpose. So, imagine you're a lone soldier, and there's and army of 10,000in the valley below you, ready to swarm the entire area. You have no chance of survival, so what will you do? Whatever technique it is that you throw, it may well be your last, so you're going to throw it with maximum intent... the intent behind the technique is to act like a meteor, striking the one soldier in front of you with the intent, the absolute confidence, that your attack will be felt, known, and feared by the entire army, and will be the ultimate expression of your convictions. You're going to die; better make it a good death. So, Xin Yi teaches this power, this intent, behind every technique. The fight is to the death; and if you live to fight another day, so be it.

Next comes Tai Ji. Tai Ji is not about Jihad; it is about preserving one's life, and the life of your loved ones. It's about breaking your opponent, throwing them to the ground, rendering them combat inoperable. It's an army vs. an army kind of MA. It's about defending the village alongside the other villagers.

Third comes BaGua. Bagua is not about Jihad, nor is it about battles between armies; it's about surgical strikes. One on one, bagua will take the opponent apart piece by piece until the opponent cries uncle. No crying uncle means no mercy. One against many, bagua will take out all comers, either temporarily or permanently, ad nauseum, until there are no more comers, or until the practitioner is no longer capable of fighting. In many ways, we come full circle with bagua - namely, a fearlessness, a willingness to fight to the death - however the intent is more akin to the self-preservation of tai ji than to the Jihad of Xin Yi. My favourite bagua story is the one where Cheng Ting Hua sees a bunch of foreign gun wielding troops tormenting his fellow brethren, and whirls into their midst with only his elbow knives, taking like 9 or 10 of them out or something before they figure out what's happening and shoot him down.

So, each art has value. Learn the core of each, and what do you end up with? Something greater than the sum of its parts, perhaps. That's what I understand the internal arts to be.

...and then of course you have all the Cha'an and daoist philosophy and stuff. :)

CSP

[Xiao3 Meng4]

...in light of what I said above, I don't see why you couldn't replace the technique base of those arts with other technique bases...

Muay Thai/Shuai Jiao/Mantis perhaps? I dunno, really, just musing...

CSP

[IronWeasel]

Thought something about my Kung Fu experience today, and am curious if others have seen this as well.

I love Hsing-I and its power. It's the best Kung Fu I've studied. Yet, it's approach seems to be one of the one-shot KO. Then I think about Wing Chun, Mantis, Hung Gar.... it was always based on jam or stick, open and hit. But then what? Good guys don't go down that easy, if at all. And that one shot just might provoke a rage-filled flurry.

I don't want this to be a "hater" thread. But this does smell of the "how you train" argument.

Have others seen this? Or are you training to truly finish up: hit and hit again. And again. And then break something.



We're taught to project 3 moves ahead. A one-shot K.O. would be convenient, but we're already chambering and positioning for the next technique. Not just in Hsing-i, but in other styles as well. The tactics used can change the way you apply the style.

[SanHeChuan]

There is nothing one shot about the mantis I do. If your just looking for the knockout your just boxing and missing the kung fu, which is the set up for the head shot after you've weakened their defenses. When a good hit is a sure thing.

[KC Elbows]

Thought something about my Kung Fu experience today, and am curious if others have seen this as well.

I love Hsing-I and its power. It's the best Kung Fu I've studied. Yet, it's approach seems to be one of the one-shot KO. Then I think about Wing Chun, Mantis, Hung Gar.... it was always based on jam or stick, open and hit. But then what? Good guys don't go down that easy, if at all. And that one shot just might provoke a rage-filled flurry.

I don't want this to be a "hater" thread. But this does smell of the "how you train" argument.

Have others seen this? Or are you training to truly finish up: hit and hit again. And again. And then break something.

An amateur boxer with the wrong mindset might look at a strong uppercut as the fight ending move, but this would be the fault of his mindset, not the uppercut.

Fighting is like a debate, some people put their all into one point, but have no plan for when that one point fails to persuade, some people throw a lot of noise into the fray, but none of it is particularly compelling, the good ones use the noise to cover the incoming salient point that will stand without chance for rebuttal.

I train combos using my style on the heavy bag, drills, and sparring, and have inspired the guys I train with who train my style to do likewise, and it has helped us all a lot. It's not a problem of the styles of kung fu that too many like the dramatic pose move and hold it like it means something(which it doesn't on its own, only when it is within a fight that it has meaning, and only when its strength is conveyed or its weakness capitalized on). This is a problem of the mindset. It has zero bearing on the style, but until one trains like a fight happens, one cannot come to any understanding of how the style may really be used to fight.

Create an environment where the same habits are rewarded/expected of boxers, bjjers, muay thai fighters, whoever, as are seen in some kung fu schools, and you will still result in the the same shortcomings.

[Ray Pina]

Thank you for your reply. Very good food for thought.

I wish I had the opportunity to learn more Ba Gua from Master David Bond Chan. Who knows what life will bring.

[Ray Pina]

unfortunately i realize you and other McMartial Artists are bound by rules, but from experience, nothing works better when rolling around on the ground than a nice bite... tear the flesh off and chew it up... underarms, biceps, the nipples... bite and rip.



Of course I take offense at the McDojo statement, that goes without saying. Particularly since I have taken considerable time, and beatings, seeking out high-level instruction in whatever art I study.

As for the biting, I can honestly say I have never found myself in a position as to where I had to resort to it. And in this day-and-age I hope never have to.

In parting, biting is like any other technique: what allows you to be in position where you are the biter (striker) and not the one being bitten?

[Ray Pina]

Thank you. You are wiser than me. Your first two paragraphs were the best I've read here and hit their mark dead center of my being.

[naja]

Thank you. You are wiser than me. Your first two paragraphs were the best I've read here and hit their mark dead center of my being.

It depends on what you train for. I don't train for sport fighting, I train for my health first, self-defense second. If I find myself in a situation where I'm going to have to fight some guy on the street, I'm going to be looking for the "fight-ending hit". I'm going to first look for the nuts, then the knees, then maybe the throat. Each of those areas on the body are no hit zones in any decent sport arena.

So I think it depends on what you are training for. If you are training for sport fighting, then yea, I can see your point. But I think in reality the majority of kung fu practitioners study for the same reasons I do, where as people whop want to train for sport fighting train other styles.

[MightyB]

Northern Mantis is all about the flow- It's all combinations working around an opponent's defenses. What's nice is that you can easily flow from strikes to locks to throws. The only downside is that there's no groundwork in the traditional stuff (groundwork as in how modern day fighters use the term groundwork - positions, submissions, sweeps, etc). If trained properly- it's quite effective. And you always make the assumption that you have to hit the guy again, and again- it's a pleasant suprise when they do fall.

I'm not going to jump up and say it's invincible or anything though. It has a lot of forms, and unfortunately too many people equate forms with rank in the system. So they get really good at forms and don't do enough combat training. I do find mantis a lot more satisfying than Judo.

[SimonM]

Ah yes, the MMA is bound by rules argument. I loooove this cheezy 1994 argument.

Sure MMA has rules.

So do most schools.

An example: MMA: Don't poke somebody in the eye, it's not cool. Instead here's how you choke the guy.

McKwoon: This is how one would poke somebody in the eye. But you must never actually use it because it is deadly.

Which is more harmful?

Now, fortunately not every kwoon is a McKwoon. Likewise not every MMA school is realistic in training.

What it comes down to is it's the fighter, not the style.

[MightyB]

I'm not going to jump up and say it's invincible or anything though. It has a lot of forms, and unfortunately too many people equate forms with rank in the system. So they get really good at forms and don't do enough combat training.

STRIKE THAT - They spend so much time trying to learn new forms - that they don't get good at anything. including forms!


Somebody posted that the majority of traditional forms play look like the practitioners are old men standing in mud. They are absolutely right. Maybe forms training wouldn't get such a bad rap if people spent more time in getting just one form right... Including myself. That's something that I think we could learn from the modern Wushu crowd. A form's got to have speed- power- ferociousness- and yet still remain supple. Tough job by any standard.

[naja]

Ah yes, the MMA is bound by rules argument. I loooove this cheezy 1994 argument.

Sure MMA has rules.

So do most schools.

An example: MMA: Don't poke somebody in the eye, it's not cool. Instead here's how you choke the guy.

McKwoon: This is how one would poke somebody in the eye. But you must never actually use it because it is deadly.

Which is more harmful?

Now, fortunately not every kwoon is a McKwoon. Likewise not every MMA school is realistic in training.

What it comes down to is it's the fighter, not the style.

Yea, my school has rules. The street doesn't. And I think you totally missed my point.

If you only train for sport fighting, that is bound by rules, then you probably aren't going to think of a kick to the knee or an eye poke when you need to. You'll react how you are trained to.

Example: How many others fighters do you think will want to fight MMA Bob if he keeps stepping on knees and tearing ACLs? Probably not many, and his desires to be a sport fighter never really about.

That's why I said train for what you want to do. If the original poster wants to do sport fighting, then train MMA. There's nothing wrong with MMA or Kung Fu if you look at them for what they are, but training one style and expecting results that it can't realistically employ is another matter altogether.

[SimonM]

There's nothing wrong with MMA or Kung Fu if you look at them for what they are, but training one style and expecting results that it can't realistically employ is another matter altogether.

Almost exactly right. Except that the problem isn't one of style. The problem is one of method.

[Ray Pina]

Yea, my school has rules. The street doesn't. And I think you totally missed my point.

If you only train for sport fighting, that is bound by rules, then you probably aren't going to think of a kick to the knee or an eye poke when you need to. You'll react how you are trained to.

You are correct about this. Speaking only for myself, I am mindful of this in my training.

At the same time, we do train very aggressive fight ending moved. My new favorite is the knee bar and a variety of foot locks. I know which ones I can finish without damaging my partner. Some foot locks I have to purposely let go because the other guy doesn't know that if you feel it, it's too late. The knee is gone. So I let it go and keep flowing.

Your argument is correct. But at the same time I am confident that I can land several "legal" blows that cause great damage while your typical kung fu guy is looking for my eyes and balls, two targets that I am mindful of protecting with my stance and hands anyway. Because rules or not accidents happen and contact there, well, hurts.

[unkokusai]

If you only train for sport fighting, that is bound by rules, then you probably aren't going to think of a kick to the knee or an eye poke when you need to. You'll react how you are trained to.



Right, and when your 'training' is to never actually do these things (just play 'make pretend' about them with compliant, non-threatening buddies in the McDojo) you'll react that way.


Good luck with that.

[SimonM]

I think a fundamental disconnect is still happening because of the use of the term CMA being polarized against the term MMA.

If we, instead, substitute out "alive" or "resistance" training and juxtapose it against "compliant" and "forms" training I think we'd have a more realistic idea of who actually believes what.

After all, I disagree with neither Mighty B nor Ray Pina... despite the fact that B is a CMA guy and Ray is an MMA guy... why?

They both advocate alive, resistance training rather than compliant training.

[naja]

Right, and when your 'training' is to never actually do these things (just play 'make pretend' about them with compliant, non-threatening buddies in the McDojo) you'll react that way.


Good luck with that.

Thanks, it's worked for me in the past - several times. Every fight I got into in high school included me kicking the ******* in the nuts or poking his eyes, though after the first eye poke I kinda felt bad about it. But I'm a little guy - only 5'6" and 160lbs. So I got used to using these techniques when the bigger kids picked on me. I'll still use them now if I have to, though I hope I never get in a situation like that again.

I've always been a "dirty" fighter, even before I started MA. I sure if I instinctively did it then, then I can instinctively do it now, only harder. :eek:

So to me training to do those techniques reinforces my natural instinct to use them. Makes sense to me. :)

[Lucas]

STRIKE THAT - They spend so much time trying to learn new forms - that they don't get good at anything. including forms!


Somebody posted that the majority of traditional forms play look like the practitioners are old men standing in mud. They are absolutely right. Maybe forms training wouldn't get such a bad rap if people spent more time in getting just one form right... Including myself. That's something that I think we could learn from the modern Wushu crowd. A form's got to have speed- power- ferociousness- and yet still remain supple. Tough job by any standard.

This is something that occured to me a couple of years ago. Since that time ive dropped all but 2 of my empty hand forms. Now I only practice those two, when I'm home alone. Truth be told though, I spend a lot more time with my heavy bag, and weights than I do on those forms.

Also, I dont like to run, I do it, but usually in the mornings or when I get home from work, I will run through my forms to get my heart rate up. Forms can be great for that too.

[Lucas]

meh, just carry around a pocket full of sand ;)

that will finish anyone :p

[unkokusai]

Thanks, it's worked for me in the past - several times. Every fight I got into in high school included me kicking the ******* in the nuts or poking his eyes, though after the first eye poke I kinda felt bad about it. But I'm a little guy - only 5'6" and 160lbs. So I got used to using these techniques when the bigger kids picked on me. I'll still use them now if I have to, though I hope I never get in a situation like that again.

I've always been a "dirty" fighter, even before I started MA. I sure if I instinctively did it then, then I can instinctively do it now, only harder. :eek:

So to me training to do those techniques reinforces my natural instinct to use them. Makes sense to me. :)


Sounds like a load of BS to me. Sounds like you are hiding behind banalities as an excuse for not developing yourself, and using kiddie-time stories of kicking some high school punk in the nuts as 'justification.'

Like I said, good luck with that.

[naja]

Sounds like a load of BS to me. Sounds like you are hiding behind banalities as an excuse for not developing yourself, and using kiddie-time stories of kicking some high school punk in the nuts as 'justification.'

Like I said, good luck with that.

::sniff sniff:: stop it now unkokusai before you make me cry!!!! ::sniff sniff:: ;)

[uki]

if someone is attempting to harm an individual, that individual has a more than the right to respond with whatever may be needed to stop the attack... there is no right or wrong method of defense. people who like to scream cheap or dirty better practice blocking more.:)

[Ray Pina]

I used to live by the maxim that I won't poke your eye, kick your balls, bite or pull your hair. And I never have. But living down here has changed the context of what a fight is. people aren't playing around. And if you develop beef, it's truly best to kill the guy as to avoid later reprisals. Which is why I don't fight and want to get a gun.

[uki]

Which is why I don't fight and want to get a gun.the way of the gun is the way of fear...

[Knifefighter]

It depends on what you train for. I don't train for sport fighting, I train for my health first, self-defense second. If I find myself in a situation where I'm going to have to fight some guy on the street, I'm going to be looking for the "fight-ending hit". I'm going to first look for the nuts, then the knees, then maybe the throat. Each of those areas on the body are no hit zones in any decent sport arena.

LOL@ yet another fantasy fu guy. All you have to do is compete in a "sporting" event that allows those things and you will quickly find out that those are not the fight enders you think they are.

[naja]

people aren't playing around.

So true. I began working in close relationship to our local PSOs about 2 years ago and I was surprised to see as many stabbings and shootings over truly stupid things in our town. And it's mostly kids under 18 that really have no idea what they're getting into.

[uki]

All you have to do is compete in a "sporting" event that allows those things and you will quickly find out that those are not the fight enders you think they are.and then again the other person might find out just how fight ending they can be...

[Ray Pina]

At this time last year I was in danger of being shot for fighting with a hardcore local. A year later I've made some hardcore friends who have calmed things down a bit for me but as a gringo I'm on probation. I have to east **** on a regular basis. Let real good waves go by, keep my mouth shut.

If something should happen again where I do need to stick up for myself, someone pushes my buttons on the wrong day, it would be nice to have a reliable pistol and/or shotgun at my home if they should decide to pay me a visit.

I don't expect you to understand, because I couldn't understand even as it was happening to me. I love it down here, but it could use a 5% easing of the hardcoreness.

[iron_leg_dave]

Thought something about my Kung Fu experience today, and am curious if others have seen this as well.

I love Hsing-I and its power. It's the best Kung Fu I've studied. Yet, it's approach seems to be one of the one-shot KO. Then I think about Wing Chun, Mantis, Hung Gar.... it was always based on jam or stick, open and hit. But then what? Good guys don't go down that easy, if at all. And that one shot just might provoke a rage-filled flurry.

I don't want this to be a "hater" thread. But this does smell of the "how you train" argument.

Have others seen this? Or are you training to truly finish up: hit and hit again. And again. And then break something.


For training the body, and for health and longevity, the various forms and sequences are truelly wonderful. For drawing tactics from, and learning proper biomechanics, they are necessary.

Freefighting though, isn't two man sets. Pull off some An Shen Pao sh** during an actual fight, and win, and your my new master :P

The guard, the stepping patterns, and five different striking patterns are given in hsing yi training. Wrestling, to the ground, and on the ground are also taught. But only to those who are willing to let their hsing yi teach them, and not the other way around.

If you took the shape of the techniques literally, and tried to use them, you'd be retarded. If you stould like "san ti" I would kick your leg, then thump you in the head, only to follow up with profuse head thumping, until I got close enough to knock you down, mount you and beat you until you stop fighting back.

That's hsing yi proper.

My first hsing yi teacher, when I was a younger man, made this pretty clear.

My current hsing yi teacher, doesn't seem to have quite the same view, but his understanding of hsing yi is incredibley deep, and I really want to be accounted in his lineage someday so I just keep my mouth shut and listen at this point.

When I get my camera fixed, which might be a while, I'll show you some real hsing yi in action with gloves on if you happen to bring it up again.

It's just a brilliant thing, xingyi.

[Ray Pina]

So true. I began working in close relationship to our local PSOs about 2 years ago and I was surprised to see as many stabbings and shootings over truly stupid things in our town. And it's mostly kids under 18 that really have no idea what they're getting into.

Check the murder stats for PR. It's crazy! In my neighborhood, since I've been here, there's been about a half dozen lethal stabbings and another half-dozed shootings. I'm talking at the beach I surf at.

Two weeks ago a dude got shot and killed at Costa Bar (club 1 mile from my house) over the bathroom.

[Ray Pina]

One month off the plane I got into it with three guys and got hit with a pipe. It opened me up pretty good. I got the pipe.

They learned. Two months later they came with ... I stopped counting around 10. Pipes. Knives and two guns. They only thing they didn't do was call for artillery.

Know I learned: gringo keep your mouth shut and eyes down. Yo tranquillo.

[uki]

maui is bad. my mom and brother live there... people get whacked on the beaches all the time... sometimes the locals just throw you to the sharks after cutting you. the best story was when the locals cut a cow and threw it in the ocean to attract the sharks to eliminate a woman who swam there everyday... aloha!!

[Lucas]

The only times I've ever wished I had a gun on me, were when guns were pulled on me. Except by the policia of course, I just do what they say, too many chances to get accidentally shot with that sort.

But on the other hand, I've survived all the few firearm threats I've encountered, so I guess at those times it was better I used what was at hand, my head, and avoided any death.

in addition though, I do own a gun. Simply because if ever needed, I want to be on even ground.

[SimonM]

I'll say this about the ubiquitous kick in the nuts: it hurts... but it's not a fight stopper when Adrenaline is flowing.

You should never train based on the doctrine of the single, fight stopping, blow. Because if that blow doesn't stop your opponent you are fubar.

[uki]

in addition though, I do own a gun. Simply because if ever needed, I want to be on even ground.me too... it was left as an inheritance gift... a browning 12 guage, semi-automatic shotgun with a 48 inch barrel... when in rome, do what romans do.

[Lucas]

hopefully ill never have to use it, but the chances are the time i need it i wont have it anyway....:rolleyes:

[uki]

hopefully ill never have to use it, but the chances are the time i need it i wont have it anyway....mine is locked away 3 hours north of my house in a gun cabinet...

[naja]

mine is locked away 3 hours north of my house in a gun cabinet...

I'm the son of a gunsmith, so yea, I have a few firearms..... ;)

[Ray Pina]

If you took the shape of the techniques literally, and tried to use them, you'd be retarded.

I learned my Hsing-I from David Bond Chan. It's good stuff.

I didn't learn form. I learned the fists mechanics and intentions, how to use them to open or collapse guards, things like that. I was also lucky that for two or three years all I did was walk back and forth and do line drills with boxing gloves and head gear. That was my awakening. That gave me confidence to go out.

[uki]

That gave me confidence to go out.you mean as in going out and keeping yer mouth shut and your eyes down? looks like you have a fine degree of confidence...