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6hmantis
10-13-2000, 01:21 AM
I was told that you can put a trademark on a martial art style? If this is true, then someone could trademark say Wing Chun. Then anyone cought useing the Wing Chun name could be sued for unfair compitition.

8stepsifu
10-13-2000, 02:04 AM
No you can't, Ignore anybody that says they have a copywrite and take a chance. Teach using whatever name you see fit and sell anything you want using whatever name. Its a free country. You can call yourself a Wing Chun sifu and open up a school. Go for it!


P.S. Thanx for the Mountain!

8Step Sifu

Kagerou
10-13-2000, 02:05 AM
I,m still waiting for some more information on the 8-step videos.I want your adress some time this year. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Kagerou

6hmantis
10-13-2000, 03:22 AM
Then how can james sun put a trademark on 8 step praying mantis? I don't understand, all the people in the world who teach 8 step has to ask him permission? Please let me know

Paul Skrypichayko
10-13-2000, 03:44 AM
Didn't you guys here about the whole Leung Ting thing with Wing Chun / Ving Tsun?

With all the squabbling after Yip Man's death, Leung Ting was sort of "kicked out" of Wing Chun. So he modified his style a little bit, and changed the name of his style. It is still pronounced pretty much the same way, and written with almost the exact same characters. I think he has a copyright on the name.

Another good example is Kook Sul Won in Korea. The way I understand it, a few hapkido masters got together and formed their own trademarked martiat arts organization, and called it Kook Sul Won. They could have had a few goals with this, quality control on who teaches and what is taught, and good business sense. Apparently, there have been a few outside people who tried to use the name Kook Sul Won, and they were immediately taken care of by Kook Sul Won's lawyers

8stepsifu
10-13-2000, 04:04 AM
Anyone that claims to be an 8 Step Sifu can teach it and advertise the 8 Step name, but by doing so they risk a huge law suit. As 4th Generation Inheritor, the system of 8 Step belongs to him. It's his to do with as he decides. He can choose to never teach anyone or to add capoiera to the system. Just as Master Feng Hua Yi added Shuai Chaio and Eagle claw, Master Sun can do with it as he sees fit. He has chosen to give it all to a large group of men and women. To do this he needs to standardize the system and have requirements. Hanging out in the park with Master Wei doesn't cut it. Many of Master Wei's public students got prety good, they can teach the kung fu that they learned, but they can't call it 8 Step. Wei Hsioa Tang only had two Disciples and Master Sun was chosen to inherit the system. I guess some of the public students are calling themselves Masters and they can do that, but they are not Masters under the 8 Step Tradition. They may have a good handle on what they where taught, but they by no means know what 8 Step Praying Mantis means. I can't say any more than that. The secrets of the System are just that. Try selling a cola drink with a pepsi label and see how far you get. Now sell the same drink and call it "Koala Cola Drink" and your in the clear. That way if "Koala Cola Drink" tastes like crap, people won't equate it with Pepsi. If you have any doubts I encourage you to open an 8 Step Praying Mantis School and see what happens.

8Step Sifu

[This message was edited by 8stepsifu on 10-13-00 at 09:14 PM.]

6hmantis
10-13-2000, 05:09 AM
I see what your saying. I looked up James sun trademark on the internet and its for 8 step preying mantis not praying mantis? IM kinda confused I guess he dosn't have a trademark for 8 step praying mantis? Do you have any idea?

molum_jr
10-13-2000, 08:07 AM
Who is going to start buying up all the combination mantis.com URL addresses?! Is the gold up in thar hills with this?

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Sifu Sun make a distinction with: Shyun Eight Step...? If he had claim over "8-Step...", then how the 8StepSifu or 8StepStudent handles?

A question...is Sifu Sun permantly relocating down to So. California?

It ain't a devious plan by other 8-steppers, but them stinking lawyers...

8stepsifu
10-13-2000, 07:43 PM
Yes Master Sun is in L.A. right now. 6HMantis: If you want to open an 8 Step school then go for it. Call it 8 Step Praying Mantis or 8 Step Preying Mantis. If that is how the copywrite is, then you are free to do so.

"Pepsea, the choice of a new Generation!"

P.S. Thanx for the Mountain!

8Step Sifu

6hmantis
10-14-2000, 01:41 AM
Hey 8 steppers. You got us HA HA HA . I guess will just have to put our tail between our legs and lick our nuts for awhile. Oh by the way, I have the information I need to register my own trademark. I think i'll call it Shyun Praying Mantis. I'll market it all over the world. I'll rape the horses and ride off on the woman i And ride off into the "sun" set I'LL BE RICH!!!. Our first technique is Dragon eats Washington. LUV YA /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

8StepStudent
10-14-2000, 02:27 AM
That's all nice and everything, but you're the one who started it, so it's your own fault. By the way... What about the tapes?

8stepsifu
10-14-2000, 03:56 AM
I think you need psyciatric help. Why don't you rip off Brazillian Ju Jitsu instead? Call it 6 Harmony Gracie Ju Jitsu.


BTW...? Who is "We'll" "Us" and "our?" You mean you're someone's puppet? I am supprised /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Must be all the "Great 8 Step Masters" that are everywhere. If you people want to lick your nuts, thats your business, contact Paulie Zink for flexebility info. And leave the horses alone.....you sick *******!

Luv Ya /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[This message was edited by 8stepsifu on 10-14-00 at 09:02 PM.]

Ziggy
10-14-2000, 07:05 AM
There's lots of us who took the pepsi challange and didn't choose pepsi! It left a bad taste in our mouths. The taste I imagine is kinda like the way your master's ass smells /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Hunh?-8stepsifu

Personally, we prefer the Koala cola...It tastes much better and don't cost as much!

Kagerou
10-14-2000, 06:44 PM
I bet your teacher's ass smells like roses then? Only you would know Zippy. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Kagerou

8stepsifu
10-14-2000, 11:32 PM
Why do you losers hide behind "New Member" status. You cant spout off about your generic mix and mach incomplete kung fu and claim to be experts in 500 styles, but you still don't know ****. YOu salad tossers should shut up and get a life. Why don't you go find a legitimate Sifu that you haven't burned a bridge with and actually try to learn Kung Fu rather than defame those of us that actually practice kung fu.
Luv Ya /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

8Step Sifu

Ziggy
10-15-2000, 01:26 AM
Ziggy. Z...i...g...g...y (Got that captain kangerou?)

8stepsifu,in all of your glory, how is it that you can discern what others know and the skills that they possess?...Does the fact that you blindly kiss ass, in addition to developing a heightened sense of smell also impart some sort of extra-sensory perception? What is the lip placement for this technique?

PS: You already have your mountain...Better put your boots on!

8stepsifu
10-15-2000, 01:38 AM
If you and your great Masters know so much, then why is it that you have nothing better to do than try and defame a reputible kung fu master and martial arts organization? Why is it that every other post, you mutants have a new name? Its true, I haven't seen you in all your glory, but if you know so much, then who the hell are you? What have you done in the martial arts? Whose lives have you benefited? What are your great plans? To claim anyone that is better than you is fake? I know that "Ziggy" didn't say these things, but you all part of the same trashy group with nothing better to do than make claims without backing them up. Its really getting boring. What is this...like the 4th post of this kind....."Oh I have an innocent question." But you have your own agenda that falls apart as you speak. If you like politics so much, go run for office, with Bush and Gore running, you'll probably win

8Step Sifu

6hmantis
10-15-2000, 03:28 AM
You cult people are so blind it makes me sick. All you have to do is pull your head out of moon-sun's ass and open your eyes.He's a fake!!! Try e-mailing some people who are real martial artest and you'll find out. ARE YOU CHICKEN BOY??? His days of lieing to the masses are grinding to a hault. I have seen Kevin Lickass do 8 step and he's a joke. But head of the *******yation of the good old USA. You cult people woulde'nt know good martial arts if it flew up your ass. I'v seen it and it puts to shame that monkey crap you cult people are trying to pass off as kung-fu. By the way, does Mr. K. lickass know how meny 8 step forms there realy are? I don't think so. Your last form is a 7 star form. Added because your master dos'nt know the real forms. the first 4 form you cult people do know are so watered down. You lack the true forms. you cult people should be****ed at all the **** you have gotten over the years. P.S.Your mASSter is not as respected as you think in the Martial Arts world. LUV YA!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ziggy
10-15-2000, 03:38 AM
Is dickweed an herb to stimulate your great intellectual reasoning abillity, 8stepsifu?

Why don't we go public and tell the entire martial arts world about the kind of benefits people receive by becoming an 8 STEP PRAYING MANTIS KUNG FU sifu, under james sun, IF they decide to no longer be a part(financially contributing member) of his federation.

Lets open up sun's federation agenda to the media!

It doesn't sound as much like a reputable kung fu master or martial arts organization anymore.

8stepsifu
10-15-2000, 03:47 AM
First of all...my name isn't Kevin.
Second of all, you lack any proof and only back up my previous statements. All your E-Mail Masters are puppeting you around. Maybe you should open your eyes. Now for the 5th time you've come on here and said that the ACMAF is fake, Master Sun is fake and now in your infinite wisdom make fun of someone's name in exchange for any actual proof or backing to your pathetic claims. I don't think I'm alone when I say that I've grown tired of you. In spite of your attempts to call us cult people, and raise doubts within our organization were moving right along, growing, making good students and functioning with increasing efficiency and smoothness. Maybe were getting too big for your comfort level? Well were doing a good thing that every ACMAF member is proud to be a part of.

8Step Sifu

8stepsifu
10-15-2000, 03:51 AM
If you don't pay federation dues, you don't go to the Sifu Camps (continuing education in kung fu and medecine), but you can still teach kung fu. The bridges you burnt with your mouth arent my problem or my concern.

8Step Sifu

[This message was edited by 8stepsifu on 10-15-00 at 08:57 PM.]

6hmantis
10-15-2000, 04:06 AM
Do you even have eyes man? Are you affrade of what you may find? You are cult people Brainwashed by a man who could care less who you are but likes your money. I give you my word that i will leave you alone if you start to open your EYES /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

8stepsifu
10-15-2000, 04:16 AM
Since your first groundless claims I have asked for proof. You say I'm blind, but you keep saying "E-mail the Masters".. I can't believe I'm writing this again.......BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS!!! I e-mailed you asking for proof and you never returned it.

8Step Sifu

8stepsifu
10-15-2000, 04:33 AM
1. You were booted, tried to use the 8 Step name illegally and are royally ****ed off because of the copywrite laws.

2. I have far more than the combined knowlege of every martial arts book out there. I have beaten older, more seasoned blackbelts of various styles

3. I've gone to tournaments and scoured the web and nowhere have I seen anything close to Master Sun as far as video clips. No one else that I've seen even moves like him

4. I just got back from the last Sifu Camp and I learned aspects of the martial arts that few people even know exist. He "gave us a peak" and I'm still blown away and trying to apply it to everything I know.

5. You have never demonstrated anything more than hatred and hearsay. You say the same things and have lots of "new users" You haven't said who you are or who these "masters" are that are so good and wise. The lack of reason, attacks, and name calling are why I and everybody else don't trust anything that you say.

8Step Sifu

8StepStudent
10-15-2000, 06:35 AM
If you wanna bring it out in the public and make a fool of yourselves... Go ahead, but until then you're nothing but water under the bridge to us, so give it up. We are practicing a REAL and COMPLETE style, and we're **** proud of it, so unless you have proof of any of your claims then you might as well talk to a brick wall, because we don't care!

jazzninja
10-15-2000, 07:42 AM
I've been studying Shyun 8step for over a year now. I like what the system and my sifu teaches me and it has given me confidence in my self and in my ability to defend myself. Regardless of what they charge for tuition, if it saves my butt just once from being hospitalized or killed, then its well worth the investment.

Ziggy
10-15-2000, 08:58 PM
8stepbozo must have over-looked the fact that the original praying mantis kung fu, developed by Wang Lang, is made up of techniques from 17 other kung fu styles. I guess Wang Lang was a salad tosser also!

Jiang Hua Long, the founder of 8 Step, added techniques of Ba Gua to Plum Flower mantis. I wonder what type of dressing he used?

The Shuai Jiao (throwing) James Sun added he probably learned in high school in Taiwan. He also hired a Shuai Jiao master to come to his San Francisco school to teach him. Shuai Jiao can be added to any mantis style, not just 8 Step. In fact, a common phrase amoung mantis masters in Taiwan is "Adding Shuai Jiao to Praying Mantis is like adding wings to a tiger". "It's a good thing".........Martha Stewart.

Better suck on some more dickweed 8stepsifu or just add it to your salad---Maybe you'll transcend to the next level, but not without paying your federation dues! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

cha kuen
10-15-2000, 09:03 PM
8stepsifu-

It's nice that you look up to your sifu but saying that no one moves like him is a pretty bold statement. BTW-these are awful posts.

Kagerou
10-15-2000, 09:07 PM
Your so-called masters don't want to admit that they didn't get to learn the whole 8-step system.Your so-called masters were out-door students of Great Grandmaster Wei's and he showed them alittle bit of the 8-step, then said that was the whole system. You've been staring into your e-mail buddies Ass, so thats why you only see $#!t . And by the way, Master Sun didn't add the Shuai Jiao techniqnes to 8-step. It was Fong Hua Yi. Just because your masters didn't get to learn any fun stuff doesn't mean that Master Sun invented all the techniques.

P.S. Hurry up and get a life, Your welcome.

Kagerou /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[This message was edited by Kagerou on 10-16-00 at 02:24 PM.]

Ziggy
10-15-2000, 09:46 PM
All James Sun has to do is come foward and objectively substantiate (proove) his claim beyond reasonable doubt, and it will put an end to all this controversy!

Jazznina, in all sincerity, ask your teacher if you can use the name, 8 Step Praying Mantis Kung Fu, if you leave the federation after you become a sifu.

jazzninja
10-16-2000, 01:02 AM
I really don't care if I become a sifu or not..right now I have more important things to worry about...like my children. And if I ever decide to strike out on my own it will be with my sifu's blessing because of the respect I have for him. He's not just a teacher to me, he's a friend as well, and where I come from, you don't do that to a friend. To me...I'm learning Kung Fu...that's all I'm concerned with for now.

6hmantis
10-16-2000, 04:32 AM
Ok Gagaru, You don't know what your talking about. So why dont you go into the corner and play with your little pee pee. Theres a Master in Ca. who studied with Grandmaster Wie for some 30 years. mASSter moonsun only trained with Master Wie untill he was 13. YOU GET IT 13!!!. So this 13 year old was given the 8 Step style,hum. Sounds kinda fishy to me. Ask your mASSter for the proof he was given the style, Whoops it burned up iin the fire. You fanny busters need to ake him to prove us wrong. And as far as saying you never seen anyone who moves like him?? Well boy you need to get out more. The man moves like a pile of frozen Whale ****. LUV YOU ALL /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

8StepStudent
10-16-2000, 05:53 AM
Only trained with Master Wei 'till he was thirteen? Hmmmm... That's funny, because that's when he started his training for fighting. Also if he still wasn't training under Master Wei after he was thirteen then how do you explain why Master Wei was in his corner for the fights when he was eighteen. You crack me up! You should get your facts straight and stop being puppeted. Plus Master Sun doesn't have to show the blessing that Master Wei gave him proving he's the sole inheritor. It's none of your buisiness, and you're talking about him going public. He's got nothing to prove. It's you puppets who are using false information to make accusations. You guys are funny! Tell me some more fake stuff

Ziggy
10-16-2000, 02:55 PM
I want to join!

Can I use the name 8 Step Praying Mantis Kung Fu if I leave James Sun's federation after becoming a sifu?

Or does James Sun only recognise my status for as long as I am paying into his federation? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

8StepStudent
10-16-2000, 07:31 PM
Give it up already! We already answered that question anyways.

Ziggy
10-16-2000, 07:56 PM
You are evasive and never answer the question directly as it is asked!

I know, after becoming a sifu, that I can teach kung fu; But can I use the name 8 Step Praying Mantis Kung Fu, if I leave and stop paying James Sun's federation dues!

With regard to James Sun's claims being nobody's buisness...ALL prospective students have the right to know what they are paying for!!! Just ask the BETTER BUISNESS BUREAU.

It is true what they say...the TRUTH cuts like a double edged sword! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

8StepStudent
10-16-2000, 10:33 PM
The answer is "No." If we stop paying taxes to the governement are we still citizens that are able to do everything tax-paying citizens can do. No, we're called convicts, and convicts can't do everything a non-convict can now, can they? Sure people have the right to know. It's called a lineage. It proves that we're credible. Keep on taking orders there bro... Ha ha!

[This message was edited by 8StepStudent on 10-17-00 at 03:58 PM.]

6hmantis
10-16-2000, 11:09 PM
Ok you bunch of fudge packers you say you are so **** good, that you beat black belts from every style? Well i'm issueing a formal offer to dance with your New York Rep. Michel Cinamino. So lets put aside all the bull**** and DANCE you bunch of *******s. I know for a fact that Master Wei stoped teaching 10 years before he passed. m******* James moonsun was ONLY 13 YOU STUPID ****FACE. Your Useing info that he gave you. HES LIEING OUT HIS ASS LIKE HE ALWAYS HAS DONE. SO, Call up your New York rep Or if the Chicken******** is on I WANT YOU Cinamino, Lets dance. You know who I am so lets cut through the crap and see how good all you badass mothers think you are. Are you game gerble boy??? SO lets settle this once and for all. How bout it Chickne**** /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

6hmantis
10-16-2000, 11:09 PM
Ok you bunch of fudge packers you say you are so **** good, that you beat black belts from every style? Well i'm issueing a formal offer to dance with your New York Rep. Michel Cinamino. So lets put aside all the bull**** and DANCE you bunch of *******s. I know for a fact that Master Wei stoped teaching 10 years before he passed. m******* James moonsun was ONLY 13 YOU STUPID ****FACE. Your Useing info that he gave you. HES LIEING OUT HIS ASS LIKE HE ALWAYS HAS DONE. SO, Call up your New York rep Or if the Chicken******** is on I WANT YOU Cinamino, Lets dance. You know who I am so lets cut through the crap and see how good all you badass mothers think you are. Are you game gerble boy??? SO lets settle this once and for all. How bout it Chickne**** /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

8StepStudent
10-16-2000, 11:37 PM
Who are you getting this false information from? Your "E-mail Masters?" You get pretty mad for a person who we're just telling the truth, and dance...? If you wanna "dance" then why don't you come "dance" with me? Better yet why don't you go "dance" with Master Sun? He's the sole inheritor. If your claims are true then surely you could beat him, but since they're not... Hey. It's your life!

[This message was edited by 8StepStudent on 10-17-00 at 09:24 PM.]

Ziggy
10-16-2000, 11:40 PM
IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN BECOMING AN 8 STEP PRAYING MANTIS KUNG FU SIFU UNDER JAMES SUN AND YOU LEAVE HIS FEDERATION AND STOP PAYING FEDERATION DUES, YOU WILL NO LONGER BE RECOGNIZED AS AN 8 STEP PRAYING MANTIS KUNG FU SIFU BY HIS FEDERATION........................................
IF YOU STATE THAT YOU TEACH 8 STEP PRAYING MANTIS KUNG FU, JAMES SUN AND CO. WILL HAVE A COPYRIGHT ATTORNEY TRY TO FILE LEGAL CHARGES AGAINST YOU FOR COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT........................

THIS IS WHAT IS HAPPENING IN BUFFALO, N.Y. RIGHT NOW!!!

8stepsifu
10-17-2000, 01:52 AM
By calling Master Sun a fake you were showing your "anger" about being told "no". There was no proof was there? If there was you would have shown it by now. I've asked for it but there doesn't seem to be any. You seem to know 8 Step and your good right? Of course you are!:) And you learned from Master Sun's lineage. So if he's fake, then you would be too. But that can't be because your such an excellent fighter right? Do you understand honey?
It's ok to be angry and if your sad, find a quiet place and have a nice cry. Do you understand that threatening my friends hurts my feeling? How would you feel if I threatened to fight one of your friends with no involvement in this? You wouldn't feel very good would you? No of course you wouldn't. This temper tantrum had better stop or you'll have to spend some time alone in your room. But you know what? No matter how angry you get, I'll love you just the same /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Its good that we got right down to the root or your feelings, but you don't need to be mean do you? No, Of course not. Do you feel better? Thats my good boy! http://thumb-2.image.altavista.com/image/89441707

8Step Sifu

Ziggy
10-17-2000, 04:08 AM
8stepsifu? Were you abducted by aliens or just exhibiting typical cult behavior? /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

8StepStudent
10-17-2000, 05:02 AM
What kind of rebuttle was that!? Where did that even come from? Cult? Ha ha!

molum_jr
10-17-2000, 08:20 AM
Could you elaborate more concerning the litigation. In what court of law is this being held (small claims or "big bucks" superior court)?

Is the litigation concerning:

1) A former Shyun 8-Steps Mantis student,

2) Peers of Sifu James Sun, or

3) A person who cross trained w/8-Steps and is now teaching under his own banner/kwoon?

It is definitely a situation/case to be aware of if applied towards all CMA. Please keep the forum informed. Thank you...

molum_jr
10-17-2000, 08:53 AM
Please elaborate on the threat or pending litigation. Is the defendant:

1) A former Shyun 8-Steps Mantis student or sifu participant,

2) Peers of James Sun,

3) A cross trainer who learnt Shyun 8-Steps Mantis and is teaching under his own banner/kwoon?

It was be interesting to see where all this will lead to within the legal system, and CMA circle...

molum_jr
10-17-2000, 09:00 AM
Sorry for the echo... Cannot edit w/o logging in and cannot seem to login: Darn...

6hmantis
10-17-2000, 06:11 PM
OK are you keven leftass or the bald ******head?

8StepStudent
10-17-2000, 07:15 PM
I am neither of them. I'm just a student like my name says. Oh and as far as the dealing with the leaving the system you're not recognized... Well that's kind of a "Duh!" question. If you leave the United States to go live in another country... Are you still a United States citizen... No! You're a citizen of the new country you live in. Next time you can answer your own question or else I'll just reply with "Duh!"

6hmantis
10-17-2000, 10:32 PM
When do you want to dance ******head I would like the NY rep Cinamino But youll do Come up to cinamino school and post me when your going to be there. When I get done with you then I get cinamino. Ok?

Papieboni
10-17-2000, 10:41 PM
First of all, If you leave the USA and go live in another country, you dont automatically become a citizen of the another country. You have to apply. If you come to the USA from another country you are not automatically a citizen here you have to apply.

Second, If you were a part of Master James Sun or any other organization and you decide to leave and teach the style for whatever reason, You cant expect them to allow you to use the name of the organization anymore because you are not part of the organization anymore. You left because you were unhappy or for some reason, why would you even want to use the name of the parent Organization anyway.

If you reached a instructors level or were certified an instructor and have your certificate and photo with you and your sifu and classmates, then who can say that you were not part of that organization? If the organization says it, how does that make them look? All they can say is the individual did train here, reached a certain level and is no longer part of the organization.

As far as teaching the style, if you were certified and wanted to teach, you can teach, just dont call it 8 step or whatever it is, just let your students know the truth, that the mantis we teach is northern praying mantis from the Traditions of 8 step OR whatever but know we call it this because of legal reasons and out of respect for the organization .....blah blah blah.

A lot of people have studied for example with Wah Lum and have left and moved on for different reasons, (a organization and its bureauracy and political sentiments are not for everyone) They now call what they teach different from Wah Lum, cause legally they are told they are not suppose to use the name "Wah Lum Tam Tui Pai." but some have called it Jut Sow after the name of the mantis thats incorporated in the Wah Lum Style, Some have called it "Jade Mountain " after the name "Yuk Tong" which was suppose to be another name for the founder "Lee Kwan Shan" and others have called it "Jade Forest."

They were certified, have certificates to prove it, pictures and awards. and were once listed as instructors. But, because they left they were not allowed to use the name of the organization and style, But THEY LEFT. and they moved on with their lives and their martial arts careers as students and instructors and that seems to be what needs to happen here.

A lot of whats going on here is silly and immature.

8StepStudent
10-17-2000, 10:58 PM
I know about the applying and so forth. I was just giving a simple analogy. If I wanted to get technical, yes I would've added more, but I was just being simple. As far as immature. Yes, I agree with you. They stated a point and don't have information to back it up, but that's not good enough for them. As far as the challenge... I don't have the money right now, but later I will.

Ziggy
10-18-2000, 02:07 AM
If you paid to be a teacher of 8 step and were certified to teach, you should be able to say you teach 8step and teach it!!!

molum_jr: The litigation is concerning a former 8 step mantis sifu certified by James Sun, who left their federation because he was unhappy with James Sun's agenda to commercialize 8 step from how it was traditionally taught and monopolize the 8 step style.

This threat is federal and extends to anyone who teaches the 8 step style. 8 step predates James Sun by some 400 years.

6hmantis
10-18-2000, 02:35 AM
On Wellfare??? Get a job bozo. Call cinamino up and post me then i'll meet him at his school or if he wishes at mine. He knows where my school is and has my number. Hes should be this sifu 8 step badass all you think you are so LETS SETTLE THIS!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

8stepsifu
10-18-2000, 02:47 AM
Who are you 6hmantis?..You keep saying, "You know who I am." But one knows who you are. Who are you??? Are you a Sifu? A Sifu Student that failed testing? BTW about the copywrite. I sat down with Master Sun and we watched a videotape of a guy preforming 8 Step and it was ridiculous. He explained later that he had to copywrite the name because there were so many bozos like him claiming to know and teach 8 Step. He did it so that the system wouldn't look bad. The Gracies have a copywrite on their name to keep out the imitators, so do we. Quality has to protect itself. Oh and not paying federation dues means no Sifu Camp, it in doesn't mean you have to stop using the name. Now that everything is almost completely standardized everything is running a lot smoother than in the old days, which were irritating to a lot of people. Those days are long gone and the tracks are being laid for structured advanced training. Why on earth would you not go to a Sifu Camp? You learn so much its stretches your brain and adds another 50 percent to your ability. But I'm sure you get that via E-Mail with your "Masters" /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif If you guys think that by bashing Master Sun that your "e-mail Masters" will like you and take you in, your dead wrong. If you betray your own Sifu, then why would they want you? They will never trust you. They're using you and they'll spit you out when they are done. How does it feel to be a cheap wh0re?

[This message was edited by 8stepsifu on 10-18-00 at 08:09 PM.

[This message was edited by 8stepsifu on 10-18-00 at 08:12 PM.]

6hmantis
10-18-2000, 03:01 AM
Im A SIFU who didn't fail but got screwed by the system. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

6hmantis
10-18-2000, 03:14 AM
Can you contact cinamino and set this up so we can finish this? See i know how you guys fight, you all think your so bad. But I was there and what moonysun showed us all is CRAP!! So you boys dont want to admit that you have been SCREWED for the past 20 years thats fine. I was and im ****ed. So lets cut through the crap and finish this. You guy just don't get it, do you? When he tell you he want a 20 year commitment to learn the system at $100 per mounth for federation dues $1000 for sifu testing fees $100 plus for under belts $1500 for a sifu uniform $70 for cheap student uniforms. Did i forget anything? So tell me i'm wrong? Hes the Master-of-****. /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

6hmantis
10-18-2000, 03:23 AM
Who's useing me??? Better take some more of that dickweed. I have no e-mail master i have been in contact with people who have trained in the same school as moonysun. they all say, NOT ONE OR TWO ALL that he was a less then desireable student. And was more than not, in class. SO STICK YOUR HEAD BACK UP YOURASS AND TAKE A VACATION. Because you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

8stepsifu
10-18-2000, 03:23 AM
Who are you?

Who's are the E-mail masters that are using you as their pawn?

What do you hope to gain through all this rubbish?

8Step Sifu

8stepsifu
10-18-2000, 03:29 AM
But then we come back to your whole proof thing....remember all those claims that you never backed up. Yeah those...were you ever gonna back those up???

8Step Sifu

8StepStudent
10-18-2000, 04:37 AM
It's nice that you hide behind your keyboard and type all this stuff about Master Sun and don't even say who you are besides a chump of course. As far as seeing Master Sun's stuff... I doubt you've seen hardly anything at all, because he doesn't show much unless you're on the Sifu level and well-trusted. As far as traditional... What's not traditional? Everything I've done is traditional to the way they've trained before. Plus have you ever read any of Master Sun's articles... He knows his stuff and using traditional references, terms, etc. Master Sun is traditional. You're just naive. And also as far as this whole dileman goes... We're all on to your so called "tactic." You ever read the play "Othello?" Well.. That's exactly what you're trying to do. You spread a little word here and there trying to break us up, but as 8StepSifu said our organization is strong and proud and will continue, and like I said before... You're just water under the bridge to us. By the way also I'm a college student and that's pretty close to wellfare, so screw off about the money. I've got other things to do besides fighting with someone who throws false claims here and there

6hmantis
10-18-2000, 04:58 AM
There not false, Like i said before better take some of that dickweed. as far as being a sifu, Remember last year? For the most part mASSter moonysun read all of the so called health and healing bull out of a book. Why? Because he dosn't have a clue. You say he knows so much. If I was Chinese and came to the USA and claimed I knew a martial arts style, people would beleave me because of where i came from. But, the lies moonysun clams (7 time world champ, Grand Master of 8 step,) its all bull. He never fought in any kind of recignized match (maybe in his world in his little mind) And was a dud student of Master Wei. He pulling the wool over your eyes but thats ok because i know what you guys do with sheep. Are you that stupid?? Look it up. I have no e-mail master. Just a few people who are Chinese by the way, who are concerned about the bad name moonysun is giving to 8 step. Do you loosers even know the true forms yet? Do you know how much moonysun watered down your forms? When i did one of the forms for a Kung fu brother of mine, he asked if i learned the rest of the form. I told him that what moonysun showed me in person. So eat somemore dickweed and go back to the sheep

8StepStudent
10-18-2000, 06:01 AM
If Master Sun doesn't know anything about medicine well then how do you explain his Dr. title? Whoops! I guess you "forgot" about that. Here's the bottom line. Give us your name. We know who we are, but you seem to remain anonymous, and give us the name of your who you're getting your information from? We've stated this several times, but you keep on "AVOIDING" it! Until then... It's just a game of cat and mouse, or better yet Praying Mantis and Cicada.

6hmantis
10-18-2000, 06:08 AM
Give me your name sheep boy. Why did sun get the basic info on point locations from the sifu camp from a book hummmm?

8StepStudent
10-18-2000, 06:53 AM
My name is Justin Kulm, and now that I've answered your question then why don't you answer my questions? I'm not afraid of you, so why don't you tell me your name and save me some time by giving your REAL name just like I did.

Ziggy
10-18-2000, 02:48 PM
What is James Sun's discipline? Is he an MD,DC,DO or OMD??? In what states is he licensed to practice??? What is his licence #???

I heard that last year one of his students broke his leg in class. James Sun "diagnosed" it as a strain. Sun lanced and bled the guy's ankle a dozen times in an unsteril environment. Then he made the poor guy walk on it, in pain, all day!

The next day, the guy went to the hospital in severe pain. He had to have apin put in his leg to stabilize it and was put in a cast!!! I here the guy left the federation and still has problems with his leg.

Sounds like malpractice to me!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

8StepStudent
10-18-2000, 05:15 PM
Key Words there, "You heard." I know what and who you're talking about and again you're false, because the guy who it happened to was at the last Sifu camp, so once again your claims are false.

8stepsifu
10-18-2000, 05:22 PM
They have said what they are going to say and now they are just saying the same old stuff. Well, we understood their views on page 1. I don't think that we should dignify these people (whoever they are) with any more responses. They have no proof, their posts are immature and groundless. If they must spit, let them spit into the wind.

8Step Sifu

8StepStudent
10-18-2000, 05:50 PM
This has just gotten way out of hand and you guys have done nothing but just state the same question after question, and you have NO PROOF, so unless you guys are going to contribute to the forum someway besides just bashing other people with no proof, I'm gonna gonna report you to the Administrator and have him ask you to leave this forum. As a Moderator I should've stopped this earlier, but I figured I'd let you guys say what you wanted to say, but when you say it over and over and have no proof of it. It gets kind of old, so in conclusion, you guys have said what you wanted to say, but you have no PROOF, so either give up proof, or stop contributing to this forum

Arod1972
10-18-2000, 06:35 PM
I study Shyun 8 step mantis under James Sun and Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun under Master Garret Gee so does this make me a half cult member? No way. There is alot to learn. You guys should focus your energies on training and not starting negativity. Does this help your kung fu by being so destuctive?
Peace

/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Ziggy
10-18-2000, 11:08 PM
BFD: Maybe you should read the forum before posting your reply. We are defensive and fighting for YOUR rights!!!

8stepstudent: Read what you wrote!!!..."the guy it happened to". The "I heard" was the bait. You are the fish.

Word of advice: You don't have to fight 6hmantis, you do a fine job beating yourselve's up!!!

PS: Nobody answered my question about James Sun's medical background. /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

8StepStudent
10-18-2000, 11:50 PM
That's nice, but no more!