Special Xingyi Issue

[mad4dos]

hi
has any one else noticed that in the
latter half(after page 67 ) of
the nov/dec 2008 issue

that all the colour pages are out of focus (the colours don't line up) ?

but the black and white part's are fine



mad4dos

[SimonM]

Not my copy.

[GeneChing]

Send it to:
Kung Fu Tai Chi
40748 Encyclopedia Circle
Fremont, CA 94538
ATTN: Gene

I'll send you a good one. If there's a print problem, I need the examples to show to our printers and demand some restitution.

My apologies to you, mad4dos. I sure hope yours is the only one.

[mad4dos]

thanks
ile do that it might take a few days as im in the UK

it's mostly affected the adverts any way
mad4dos

[GeneChing]

mad4dos - are you a subscriber (http://www.martialartsmart.net/19341.html) or did you pick it up off the newsstands? Since your sending it all the way from the UK, pick out a back issue (http://www.martialartsmart.net/Kungfu_Magazine.html) that you don't have that's not sold out and let me know by PM - I'll toss that in with the new ND2008 issue.

[SimonM]

Well I have finished the issue. I must say it was certainly a mixed bag of articles, as one would expect from a Xingyi special issue. Interesting issue all around.

A few articles drew my attention in particular and I wanted to discuss them.

I'll go in order read.

1)Yiquan.

On page 20 the author asserts that Zhang Zhuang has direct benefits to fighting skill. This is an often-made assertation of Yiquan practitioners. And yet I have never seen a photograph, a video or even an article actually showing or describing a Yiquan practitioner actually sparring. I have seen many photographs of people doing standing meditation... and really nothing else.

Now I'm not going to suggest that meditation is useless. I meditate daily.

I don't do so to become a better fighter. It's just not what meditation is for. So my challenge to the yiquan folks is to provide some sort of doccumented proof that their standing meditation practice really does improve ability as a fighter. It's not difficult to explain. You can do so with pictures.

2) Harnessing the Power of General Yue Fei.

Although the Ba Shi picture on page 25 suffers from some typical martial arts magazine silliness (the "I'm going to point at your with my arm perfectly extened for the lock before throwing my punch" picture) the article is, over all, pretty good. It's not anything particularly revolutionary nor does it provide any brand new insights into power generation in Xingyi to someone who has done basic Xingyi training but for somebody just introduced to the art it could be informative. Furthermore I like the poem. Good translation job. :D

3) Xingyi's Ground Dragon Canon.

By far the most interesting article in the issue. I rarely find myself in the position where I have been thrown and my opponent remains standing, largely due to my tendency to pull my opponent to the mat with me if I think he'll get the throw off but, in the event that this fails, I'll certainly attempt some of the techniques discussed in the article and will be interested to determine their efficacy. This article is definately a must-read.

4) Getting Ahead in Mantis

Again my issue here has to do with some of the typical martial arts magazine photo silliness and how it correlates with the theme of the written piece as I see a bit of a disconnect. The author makes a pont of discussing how Mantis style can be effective against a larger opponent. The author also provides some photo and textual descriptions of take-down that (I assume) would be usable against a larger opponent. Aaaaand the author even uses, in one of the two sets of photos, a pair of models of considerably different size and weight.

The takedown / elbow combination depicted on page 69 is, to be blunt, foolhardy. First off the series starts with the larger defender already fully flanked. It's not easy to get this position to begin with in a real fight. Should you get the position you have to execute your takedown quickly or else your opponent will respond with force and you are, well, screwed. Furthermore I find the throat-wrap to be structurally unsound. A man who was taller than me and close to my weight once tried a simmilar technique on me in a match and he got introduced to mister floor by way of a shoulder throw. If somebody lighter and shorter than me attempted such a grapple he or she would probably not even be able to force my chin up.

The series entitled flanking at the bottom of page 71 is somewhat more effective. In fact I like using a very simmilar takedown... the main difference being that I only use one hand at the chin and put the other on the hip of my opponent to help force them down. Still though the series starts from a pre-flanked position and does not discuss how to pass from a frontal confrontation or a clinch to the point where the takedown can be executed. These omissions make the self-defense information in this article incomplete and rather risky.

[GeneChing]

I merged this thread with the previous print problems thread of mad4dos. I'm an editor and a little compulsive that way.

As for the 'martial arts magazine silliness', I feel ya. At the heart of the issue is that martial arts are dynamic and print is static. It has created a tradition of attempting to represent something dynamic via static snapshots, something that goes back to our ancient texts. That has grown into what I call the 'errors in time' which is exemplified by excessive counters to a straight punch that just hangs there. In real time, the straight punch doesn't hang there so. No one does that. It's always retracted. Such techniques require the master to get off two or three counter techniques in one tempo of the adversary. Now, a skilled master can actually do this sometimes, especially against an adversary of lesser skill. Of course, it looks funny when shown in photos. But therein lies one of the great misconceptions of kung fu vs. MMA and other such ring sports. Fight sports assume both fighters are skilled and equally matched. Kung Fu does not. Many kung fu tactics are based on trickery - on catching the adversary by surprise on the street. That just doesn't happen the when you step in the ring or the cage. When you step in the ring, both fighters are ready.

[SimonM]

And that is certainly a valid response to the "Power of Yue Fei" article.

However I don't feel that necessary excuses some of the tactics demonstrated in the mantis article. The fact is that an untrained opponent of greater size and power will probably try for a clinch. Flanking from clinch thus becomes an important technique to teach to people learning kung fu. Showing a pre-flanked throw and stating that it demonstrates flanking is thus a bit of a problem. And that is in the sequence with the sound throw. The sequence I made reference to on the first page of the article is one that would be very unlikey to work... unless, perhaps, you were considerably larger and heavier than the person you were attempting to perform it on.

And that is the inverse of what the article suggested, in text, as an advantage of mantis - the ability to effectively fight a larger, heavier opponent.

[brianlkennedy]

I had wanted to mention that I thought Jake Burroughs piece on the Earth/Ground Dragon Canon, which appears in the current "Special Xingyi Issue", was very well done. The Earth Dragon Canon is an important and often overlooked xingyi classic and I thought Jake's discussion of it was outstanding.

take care,
Brian

[SimonM]

You can find additional discussion of that issue in this thread: here (https://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52097)

[GeneChing]

that's merge-worthy. ;)

[GeneChing]

Shoot, that merge failed. I wanted to keep this link up on the main forum here, but redirect it to the Kung Fu Tai Chi Magazine & KungFuMagazine.com forum (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=17) but the title switch deleted the link. So let's do that again. :rolleyes:

[GeneChing]

Thanks for the feedback. We really appreciate it.

[SimonM]

I look forward to reading future articles by Jake Burroughs. Definately the high point of what was a generally good issue.

[@PLUGO]

For those of you who haven't picked up the issues. The Table of Contents (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=789) is now available online.

[ghostexorcist]

Furthermore I like the poem. Good translation job. :D
Yue Fei did not write the poem. Scholars believe it was written around 1500. See:

James T. C. Liu. "Yueh Fei (1103-41) and China's Heritage of Loyalty." The Journal of Asian Studies. Vol. 31, No. 2 (Feb., 1972), pp. 291-297

Those girls from the Mantis article were hot! They had to be models.

[SimonM]

My only issue with the models / students / whatever for the mantis article aside from the ones directly related to technique were in the pictures where the woman was demonstrating aggressor positions on the much larger man. And this also came back to technique as the structure she was using to take down a much-larger (and more importantly much taller) man were not sound.

[Zenshiite]

1)Yiquan.

On page 20 the author asserts that Zhang Zhuang has direct benefits to fighting skill. This is an often-made assertation of Yiquan practitioners. And yet I have never seen a photograph, a video or even an article actually showing or describing a Yiquan practitioner actually sparring. I have seen many photographs of people doing standing meditation... and really nothing else.

Now I'm not going to suggest that meditation is useless. I meditate daily.

I don't do so to become a better fighter. It's just not what meditation is for. So my challenge to the yiquan folks is to provide some sort of doccumented proof that their standing meditation practice really does improve ability as a fighter. It's not difficult to explain. You can do so with pictures.



My bagua teacher has videos of dudes doing Yi Quan in Japan and they are doing much more than just post standing. Even some sparring, and I was impressed.

[SimonM]

I'm just saying I've never seen anything in any source about Yiquan showing anything other than standing meditation.

If there is footage of Yiquan practitioners doing something martial perhaps the problem is just bad PR rather than phoney-baloney martial arts.

Or perhaps it's not.

[uki]

in the newest issue of the mag here, someone writes that the forums are full of rude people who lack respect... but just what is online respect? this person also makes an assumption that these rude people probably do not bow and that they need to train more, rather than type on the internet forums... how does showing respect, bowing, and training rather than typing make one a better martial artist? do you think damo(we'll use the shortened version here) bowed to the emperor? i personally do not bow to anyone, i respect those who respect back, those with lack of respect will be shown a lack of respect... respect is a two way deal. this site is not a kwoon, you cannot take your shoes off and bow to the screen(i mean you could) before entering the forums, and it certainly is a bit ludicrous that one show a genuine respect to people who hide behind internet anonymonity, simply because their profile lists them as a master or something... eh? i have seen a fair share of masters and teachers on here that are way contradictory to the way they carry themselves at their own schools... i respect these forums in the sense that they show all the true colors of the martial artist typing on them, it'd be somewhat difficult to engage in this type on communication with people who in the outside world are up to their eyeballs in a false ego do to a percieved martial status hierarchy... comments please.

p.s. i realize we all clicked the i agree to the terms of use which clearly indicates one to be respectful, but alas, as anyone can see, it is clearly a hoot.

[David Jamieson]

"Be the change in the world you want to see" -Ghandi

[SimonM]

how does showing respect, bowing, and training rather than typing make one a better martial artist?

Well.... that third part... training is how one does become a better martial artist. If I could do gongfu at work without my coworkers complaining I probably wouldn't spend any time here.

[uki]

"Be the change in the world you want to see" -Ghandii am being the change i want to see in the world.:D

Well.... that third part... training is how one does become a better martial artist. If I could do gongfu at work without my coworkers complaining I probably wouldn't spend any time here.i was waiting for a response from you on this... it wasn't really what i was attempting to convey, yet i have a pet peeve against having a last edited by uki under my posts, especcially a thread i started.:) so to clairify a tad, i was implying that just because people spend time on the internet forums as opposed to spending the same time in practice does not mean someone is lacking as a martial artist, it simply means that perhaps they have a well balanced lifestyle which allows ample time for all of ones chosen activities... besides i am an adamant believer that quality trumps quantity.

[Lucas]

Well, clearly this person was not talking about me. I either respect you or I ignore you.

I refrain from name calling, and insults in general. I only like to do that stuff to peoples face, its no fun if you cant see the reaction. ;)

I'm the kind of guy that respects people outright, unless I have for warned knowledge that they are un deserving.

Until someone proves that they do not deserve my respect, they reserve it.

[uki]

reflecting on the aspects of respect, i have also come to the conclusion that some individuals naturally command more respect than others... wether they are conscious of it or not.

[doug maverick]

I merged this thread with the previous print problems thread of mad4dos. I'm an editor and a little compulsive that way.

As for the 'martial arts magazine silliness', I feel ya. At the heart of the issue is that martial arts are dynamic and print is static. It has created a tradition of attempting to represent something dynamic via static snapshots, something that goes back to our ancient texts. That has grown into what I call the 'errors in time' which is exemplified by excessive counters to a straight punch that just hangs there. In real time, the straight punch doesn't hang there so. No one does that. It's always retracted. Such techniques require the master to get off two or three counter techniques in one tempo of the adversary. Now, a skilled master can actually do this sometimes, especially against an adversary of lesser skill. Of course, it looks funny when shown in photos. But therein lies one of the great misconceptions of kung fu vs. MMA and other such ring sports. Fight sports assume both fighters are skilled and equally matched. Kung Fu does not. Many kung fu tactics are based on trickery - on catching the adversary by surprise on the street. That just doesn't happen the when you step in the ring or the cage. When you step in the ring, both fighters are ready.

glad to see more xing yi articles in the mag gene, as everyone knows xing yi is my drug of choice, and it has been for five years. i know your studing it also gene, is that why we're seeing more xing yi? its getting more and more popular in the states

[SimonM]

I have been quite interested in Xingyi within the sphere of my limited contact with it. It's a lot of fun to play and, linearity of attack aside has a few very effective footwork patterns that I was happy to learn. I also fully support the inclusion of more Xingyi articles in future editions.

[GeneChing]

The special issues come about totally organically. I seldom ask freelancers to produce articles on a particular topic. This is because if a freelancer fails to deliver, I'm left holding the bag, so to speak. It's not like I can penalize them for not fulfilling their promise.

What really happens is that I'll look at the articles I have in our queue for possible publication and the theme just emerges. With this issue, most of the pieces were in place. I only requested one and that was the one from Jake Burroughs. Jake and I had discussed the possibility of doing a xingyi special before, so I knew I could tap him. I knew his expertise and I felt he was trustworthy to deliver by deadline.

I do believe that our organically-grown specials are a barometer of the state of the art in America. It's not hard stats, but the very phenomenon of me receiving more articles on the same subject is a symptom of some kind of trend. What's more, I get a second validation with issue sales. However, I don't get a sense of how well an issue does for months after it comes off the newsstand. That's just a weird inefficiency of the magazine industry. An issue doesn't close for a year. So we'll see how this issue does. I'm hopeful, but I'm always hopeful.

[SimonM]

This is because if a freelancer fails to deliver, I'm left holding the bag, so to speak. It's not like I can penalize them for not fulfilling their promise.


Yeah, sorry about that... I got sidetracked writing a novel. :o
emphasis mine

I am happy to see Xingyi getting attention though. It's actually one of the most logical and straightforward martial arts I have come across. Even the most common deficiencies of the style trace back from it's functionality within the sphere it was developed for.

[SimonM]

The opportunities to hide in the shadows and grab somebody from behind are rather infrequent in the modern world. To make it more organic start the sequence from a clinch or at least from a frontal face-off position and demonstrate how to pass to a flank. If mantis does not include this information than I'd suggest cross-training to develop it. Starting close to home Wing Chun has literally whole books devoted to flanking techniques. Most forms of wrestling include techniques to flank an opponent too.

Ambush arts do not make for good self-defense and in this day and age the two bread-and-butter foci of martial arts are self-defense and training for sport.

[GeneChing]

We've just posted the unabridged version of A Lifetime Dedicated to Martial Traditions: An Interview with Professor Ma Mingda (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=794) by William Acevedo, M.Eng., Mei Cheung, B.A., and Brenda Hood, Ph.D. The print version has move pictures, so be sure to pick up a copy before it goes off the stands next month.

[shuen]

Hi,

I hope this is the right forum (sorry if not, i´m new here)

in the dec/jan isssue of Kungfu-Taichi is a little article about
"Chinese Wushu Treasure Stamp Album" By Lem Festeris
the article says this album was issued in may2008. I searched the internet and except one website with minimal infos on it about the album, i didn´t find anything. I would really liked to buy it, but it looks like it was NOT issued. Ther is no info in this, even on (chinese) philatelic sites.

Has anybody any info?

Thanx

[GeneChing]

I'm going to merge this with our thread on that issue, but I'll leave a permanent link in case anyone has any more info for you. Lem is a freelancer that I had follow up on a lead for that story. The lead was Dr. Werner Leuschner, who is mentioned in that article. He's a martial arts master and promotes tournaments in Ontario Canada. Here is his website. (http://www.wingchunescrima.com/) I would contact Leuschner for more information.

[shuen]

Thanx a lot GeneChing. i´ll contact him.

[uki]

Ambush arts do not make for good self-defense and in this day and age the two bread-and-butter foci of martial arts are self-defense and training for sport.ah, but only in ignorance would one say that the ages do not change like the days... what is out of date in one age, may be up to par in the next. :D

[SimonM]

In which case future innovation will allow for the reintroduction of it into martial arts, one way or another. That is neither here nor there about conditions, in martial arts, now.

[Infrazael]

Taikiken (Yiquan) vs. Kyokushin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkC35VbWGvw

[SimonM]

Thanks Infrazael, I'll look at the vid when I get home tonight. ;)

[Infrazael]

For once someone is asking stuff about CMA fighting.

The Southern subforum has gone epic and won't be back to normal for a while.

I sense we're upon the crux of another full-blown lineage war.

[SimonM]

For once someone is asking stuff about CMA fighting.

The Southern subforum has gone epic and won't be back to normal for a while.

I sense we're upon the crux of another full-blown lineage war.

Um... yeah... and let us discuss it no more here lest it spread. ;)

But, seriously, this is supposed to be a kung fu magazine forum. One would think that occasionally we'd actually, you know, talk about gongfu.

[Infrazael]

What did you think of the clip?

[SimonM]

Honestly... it slipped my mind. Hard day at the office followed by wife's birthday celebrations. I'll get back to you after I watch it.

[doug maverick]

Taikiken (Yiquan) vs. Kyokushin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkC35VbWGvw

the yi quan guy doesn't look like he is using his art, just throwing punch's. with no power at that. maybe he is a beginner.

[Infrazael]

the yi quan guy doesn't look like he is using his art, just throwing punch's. with no power at that. maybe he is a beginner.

What would you know?

Seems the people that criticize are usually people who never fight.

I see decent striking.

That is enough.

99% of CMA guys can't even do that. Are you any better?

[doug maverick]

wow dude, how do you know what i know or dont know. dont go around saying who knows what. im going by my own observation. thats my opinion im entitled to it. lets not start a flame war over something so trivial please this is a pretty interesting thread on an art i love. im not gonna sit here over the internet listing ways of how i know how to fight or any of that nonsense it childish really. your response was childish and inwarrented but again its your opinion so say what uou want. me personally i see he is not using his art not one lick. 99% cma blah blabh blah thats all that came after that. where do those numbers come from where is the research. please man, dont be so full of yourself. not saying the guy is a bad fighter just saying i dont see any yiguan or xing yi or anything just wild punchs.chill out, its not that serious its a flipping video on thatnet. are you one of the guys or know one of the guys in the vid? if not then you shouldnt even have reacted in that manner not at all. after your reply whatever it made be, its over and done let the thread continue on its poitive note.

[SimonM]

Taikiken (Yiquan) vs. Kyokushin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkC35VbWGvw

Sorry I was not impressed. Honestly if I were going to be impressed with anyone in the match it would have been the Kyokushin guy but even he wasn't amazing.

[SimonM]

As you may have guessed I am most certainly not a traditionalist. In fact I tend to distrust blind adherence to tradition in favor of application of reason to questions of practice.

On this we agree though:

Collecting forms is not a path to martial mastery.

As a note: This post was not a double-post, it was in response to a statement that has since been excised from the board after the poster decided to remove himself entirely from the KFM forum for reasons that escape me.

[GeneChing]

I'd argue that collecting forms is a potential path to martial mastery. Although apocryphal, Bodhidharma got there by sitting and staring at a rock for nine years. There are countless paths. More than sand on the seashore. More than numbers. But none are guaranteed.

John and I did discuss the poem after his initial submission and I felt it was valid enough for the sake of the story. Remember, we aren't a scholarly journal. We'd get bogged down pretty fast if we were and that would do little to promote Chinese martial arts for us on the newsstands. There are other publications that veer that direction.

[doug maverick]

Even Bruce Lee had a mastery of Wing Chun before he developed Jeet Kune Do.


yeah idk if bruce lee was a master of wing chun before developing jkd, considering he didn't complete the system before coming to the usa.

[GeneChing]

Martial arts school death not suspicious (http://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201904/17/WS5cb68b95a3104842260b6ac6.html)
chinadaily.com.cn | Updated: 2019-04-17 10:12

http://img2.chinadaily.com.cn/images/201904/17/5cb68b95a3104842e4a8f71c.jpeg
A photo of the 7-year-old girl surnamed Deng. [Photo/Red Star News]

An investigation team has ruled out beating or other suspicious circumstances as the cause of death for a seven-year-old girl who died at a martial arts school in Dengfeng, Central China's Henan province, two days after she enrolled, CCTV has reported.

The conclusion comes after forensic experts from Dengfeng and Zhengzhou conducted an examination of the girl's remains and public security carried out an investigation at the school.

The girl's parents had no objection to the findings, and the case will not be registered as a criminal case.

The girl's parents sent her to Xiaolong Martial Arts School on Sunday. At 9:40 am on Tuesday she fell to the ground during a class break and died before an ambulance could reach the scene.

According to previous media reports, the girl's father said there were kick marks on her stomach when he saw her remains at the mortuary.

"The surveillance camera was far from my daughter. It seems like someone pushed and kicked her," Deng said after watching a video clip obtained from the school.

Public information shows that Xiaolong Martial Arts School's legal representative is Chen Tongshan, father of actor Shi Xiaolong.

The school has more than 12,000 students and over 2,000 teachers.

THREADS:
Shi Xiaolong (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?61131-Shi-Xiaolong-aka-Kung-Fu-Prince-aka-Ashton-Chen)
Martial Arts Deaths (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?52484-Martial-Arts-Deaths)

Also noteworthy - Grandmaster Chen Tongshan was featured on our 2008 NOV+DEC (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=789) cover story: Shaolin Masters Keeping the Faith (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=793) so I copied this to our Nov+Dec 2008 thread (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?52144-Special-Xingyi-Issue)too.