View Full Version : Unprofessional martial arts schools--what does everyone think??
LaterthanNever
10-08-2008, 10:49 AM
First,
I'm not so sensitive that I'm super offended or anything like that. BUT...as a representitive of a school..and more particularly a style of kung fu, I believe that an instructor or a contact person for that school should behave in a professional manner..
With that said..there is a school of kung fu(a fairly well known style) where I live that I wanted to study at. The forms and applications looked impressive when I peered my head into the classroom. So..when the class ended..I approached one of the students who was leaving(the sifu had 3-4 students who wanted to ask him questions..and I didn't have alot of time to wait) and asked them about fee schedules, days of week they met,etc.(all the pertinent info). The student then gave me the contact info of a student who was designated the representative of the style for that state(the school has branches in a few different states).
So...I e-mailed this person on 3 separate occasions to ask the usual series of questions. I didn't get a single response! Gee..surely someone who represents an organization which prides itself on such a long history of teaching this style of kf (known for it's animal claw techniques) would at minimum send me an e-mail back right? And even if they were not accepting other students at my time of inquiry..they'd at least say "Sorry but we are not accepting other students at this time"..right? Wrong on both counts!
I thought "hmm..maybe the guy just doesn't read his e-mail". So, I go to the school again and wait patiently outside till the class is over. I peer my head in and say "excuse me sir..are you the sifu?". And he says "Ha..no..I wish". So I say "I see..could you tell me if your school is accepting further students?" so he goes.."no". I say " do you have an idea on when that could change" and he says "no..I don't..we have a certain format here".
So I say "could you tell me how much the sifu normally charges for lessons, so I can have an idea if and when you begin accepting other students again?".
His answer? "I'm not going to discuss that"..and very sternly I might add! It was almost as if he took it like I was questioning him on the witness stand.
Let me tell you..I've e-mailed and called sifus/masters/grandmasters of a diversity of different styles(some with some very sizable organizations.).and NONE of them were so unprofessional and smug. At minimum, I always got either a reply to my e-mail or a call and my question was usually answered.
BoulderDawg
10-08-2008, 11:12 AM
Without knowing what's going on in the school, I would guess they are having management problems......All schools I've had experience with have a front desk or someone there who can help you.
It's sounds to me that you have, as of yet, spoken to anyone in charge and there doesn't seem to be anyone there willing to accept responsiblity for the management. Or, who knows, maybe the guy you talked to did at one time try to take some responsibility and caught S from the owner for doing so.
This doesn't make is a bad school just one that is poorly run. It you really want to attend go back find a student who looks like he/she has been there for a while and ask them what is going on.
lkfmdc
10-08-2008, 11:32 AM
I am not suggesting this is the best business model for western society, but in Japan if you approach a ko-ryu about studying they will tell you they aren't taking students, aren't interested in students and you couldn't afford the tuition, usually all in the same breath......
MasterKiller
10-08-2008, 11:37 AM
I am not suggesting this is the best business model for western society, but in Japan if you approach a ko-ryu about studying they will tell you they aren't taking students, aren't interested in students and you couldn't afford the tuition, usually all in the same breath......
My Sigung's teacher tells every white person that...:D
David Jamieson
10-08-2008, 01:49 PM
who let you join this forum?
I am personally outraged that you have questions!
:p
SimonM
10-08-2008, 01:54 PM
Not normal in my experience.
Then again my sifu rarely turns away a paying student.
peace&love
10-08-2008, 02:04 PM
Is this an actual brick and mortar school or just someone teaching as a club? Either way, it is pretty rude and does not show the true martial arts spirit. I would simply avoid this place and move on. It sounds like they have some pretty serious issues. Be well.
Yum Cha
10-08-2008, 04:51 PM
First,
I'm not so sensitive that I'm super offended or anything like that. BUT...as a representitive of a school..and more particularly a style of kung fu, I believe that an instructor or a contact person for that school should behave in a professional manner..
...Let me tell you..I've e-mailed and called sifus/masters/grandmasters of a diversity of different styles(some with some very sizable organizations.).and NONE of them were so unprofessional and smug. ...
This is a reoccurring theme here on KFO, professional v non-professional schools or commercial v non-commercial schools.
Not everybody is professional. Not all styles are structured the same. There are traditional family structures and pay per grade and everything between. Even in non commercial schools, quite often there is money floating around, you can bet.
Some teachers are half-assed former students of somebody, some are true masters in their own right. Some take token payment based upon means, some accept tithe in red packets at ceremonies, some have financial Bai See, some have ceremonial. Some just donate their time for the love of the art and community, believe it or not.
Some are wholesome professionals, others come from darker places. Very dark - don't like light, geddit?
Lets assume that this was the way the school conducted its business on purpose.
I know a number of Chinese here who won't take white students just casually. They teach sons of family and friends, referees, the like. They don't dislike white students, its just a practicality thing. 1 in 10 stays. All kinds of wierd western values about kung fu, questions, language barriers maybe... Just too distracting. Of course, the right kind of person can overcome these barriers of inconvenience.
Deal with the person, not the business, and you might have more success next time.
Non commercial schools don't care about your consumers rights. They don't care if you come back. They only care if you make them care by working hard, if its a legit school.
Do you know about TCMA family structure? Sifu, biggest brother, big brothers, little brothers (and all the sisters, uncles, grandfathers, etc, etc)?
If you knew what the style was called, it might tell us a little more about the possible culture around the place. Was it in its own Kwoon- large or small , or a public hall, or ?
Did they have marketing materials on display?
Just my humble opinion, but non-commercial with full lineage master, is just about the best you can ever hope to find if you want a full TCMA experience.
But, God forbid! Don't go firing questions at him about lineage! LOL
student... teacher... is there a difference?
Hebrew Hammer
10-08-2008, 06:03 PM
Maybe you're asking the wrong questions, its like asking a girl her favorite positions on the first date...perhaps they like to be wined or whined and dined first. Secondly remember that most martial art schools are small businesses and are not necessarily run like smart businesses. Third, because of that for many instructors this is there second job, in addition to their primary job and family responsibilities...so they assign a senior student to handle the biz.
You are not alone with this type of experience, I spent a long time researching, visiting local schools before trying several out...some of my worst first impressions came by either highly reputable schools or instructors...as mentioned some Japanese schools, the instructor won't even talk to you until you've been there a while. At another school, the Sensei said he didn't do Kumite because he'd lose his students...of course he lost me then and there. At my CLF school, I actually interacted more with the Senior Student rather than the Sifu and had an enjoyable experience.
If you like the caliber of the instruction at this school, I'd give them another chance, someone maybe on vacation, an email may have been sent to a spam folder...get there early and speak to the Sifu maybe he/she isn't aware of the type of greeting you received. Sometimes things are worth waiting for. Go with your instinct, Grasshopper. there maybe the perfect school for you just around the corner.
SimonM
10-09-2008, 08:40 AM
I am possibly going to be in the market for a new school soon.
My current school is great, best I've ever been to in about 16 years of involvement in various martial arts.... god... 16 years... has it been that long....
Anyway, I just got an interview for a job out west and the interview was based on performance on a test and there are actually something in the range of 11 or 12 positions open so my chances of getting a job is good. Now my sifu is in London so if I move to Prince George than, regardless of how much I prefer my current sifu I will have to be looking for a new school.
When I do here is what I will be looking for:
1) Fighting - preferrably daily.
I go to the kwoon I get to spar. It's as simple as that. Usually, these days, it's submission wrestling as that is what is interesting me lately. If it's not than it's boxing or kick boxing or fencing... on a couple of occasions we even did full MMA sparring. I enjoy sparring. It's my favorite part of martial arts, hands down. If I go to a school and it's all dancing through a bunch of forms, no thanks, I'm out the dor.
2) An approachable sifu / sensei.
If the instructor doesn't care enough about new business to at least talk to walk-ins than I am not so sure that he'll be there a year later still teaching.
3) A sifu / sensei who can actually teach me something.
I don't care about belts. If I go to class and it's not the same style I was in before and the guy says "put on a white belt" that's fine by me. But I do care about getting a good tuition. If the instructor refuses to teach me anything other than how to stand in Ma Bu for six months or if the instructor just doesn't have enough experience to teach me anything I don't already know than bye bye.
4) A sifu / sensei who speaks english or mandarin.
Language barriers suck.
5) Not TKD.
I hate TKD. :p
LaterthanNever
10-09-2008, 11:25 AM
"Is this an actual brick and mortar school or just someone teaching as a club? "
It's just a rented room in a brick building in a community center. But when you go to the link--there is no mention of "we are not accepting other students"..it's misleading to the general public.
"Either way, it is pretty rude and does not show the true martial arts spirit."
Yes.
sanjuro_ronin
10-09-2008, 12:04 PM
Actually, the true "martial arts spirit" would be to kick you in the groin and call you a pansy for falling.
Actually, the true "martial arts spirit" would be to kick you in the groin and call you a pansy for falling.this action most likely gave rise to the first notions of vengence and revenge...
SimonM
10-10-2008, 11:51 AM
Uki knows this because of his PHD in archaeology, philosophy, history or sociology.....
Oh wait... he is just a crank with no formal education of note.
David Jamieson
10-10-2008, 12:03 PM
simon, I believe you waste too much time trying to bend the unbendable. :)
between uki and 1bad65 you have wasted a lot of time typing.
There are better conversations to be had for sure!
sanjuro_ronin
10-10-2008, 12:04 PM
this action most likely gave rise to the first notions of vengence and revenge...
Well, it certainly didn't give RISE to anythign else !
LOL !
SimonM
10-10-2008, 01:32 PM
between uki and 1bad65 you have wasted a lot of time typing.
Mission accomplished!
There are better conversations to be had for sure!
And I participate in those too.
But my more involved conversations with you, becca, sanjuro ronin, IKFMDC, Gene, zenshiite and a host of other people who aren't 1bad65 or uki fail to waste anywhere near enough time.
I'm tied to a desk.
At work I can access a grand total of 2 non-work related websites due to the filter in place.
This one and wikipedia.
If I have downtime at work (and I often do, it's the nature of the work) that means I'm either reading random stuff on wikipedia or I'm wasting time here.
1bad65 and uki serve a valuable function...
Helping me waste my time.
And I thank them for that.
They are eceptionally efficient time wasters.
between uki and 1bad65 you have wasted a lot of time typing.and this of course is coming from someone with 10,000+ posts...
There are better conversations to be had for sure!yet you cannot refrain from somehow being involved...
SimonM
10-10-2008, 01:54 PM
Uki... you have been on the forum for 1 year and your post count is over 500... and has been rising exponentially.
True fact:
When Kung Fu magazine started up the website David Jameson had already been there for a year...
It's true.
Uki... you have been on the forum for 1 year and your post count is over 500... and has been rising exponentially.what can i say, i like inter-reacting with the world... one post at a time.
When Kung Fu magazine started up the website David Jameson had already been there for a year...woopie-fukin-do...
It's true.i never claimed you were a liar.
LaterthanNever
10-10-2008, 03:40 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how easy some threads are derailed by tangents.
Can I have some more feedback to my original question please?:cool:
LaterthanNever
10-10-2008, 04:02 PM
"Maybe you're asking the wrong questions, its like asking a girl her favorite positions on the first date...perhaps they like to be wined or whined and dined first."
Wrong questions? Gee..I thought that my questions were pretty generic and what most people start with when they are trying to glean info about the standard info.
Are you saying I should ask different questions such as :
"Yes..could you tell me what you are most afraid of in life"?:rolleyes::rolleyes:
how about..."what's your favorite flavor ice cream"? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
David Jamieson
10-10-2008, 05:35 PM
memories, in the corner of my mind... lol
man, this place used to have that old frontpage notepad look when Steve was running it.
It's all high tech now, but has the same ebb and flow as always.
not a dry river bed at all.
not a dry river bed at all.we're all just drops in the little river...
David Jamieson
10-10-2008, 05:40 PM
Thanks Kwai Chang. say, did you ever find your brother in the wild west? :p
Thanks Kwai Chang. say, did you ever find your brother in the wild west?i was refering to a friend of mines kung fu school... little river kung fu... one of peter kwoks students; and no i never lost a brother in the wild west... one is in maui and the other in ireland.
David Jamieson
10-10-2008, 05:52 PM
swift is the river...lol
GreenCloudCLF
10-11-2008, 12:22 PM
"Maybe you're asking the wrong questions, its like asking a girl her favorite positions on the first date...perhaps they like to be wined or whined and dined first."
Wrong questions? Gee..I thought that my questions were pretty generic and what most people start with when they are trying to glean info about the standard info.
Are you saying I should ask different questions such as :
"Yes..could you tell me what you are most afraid of in life"?:rolleyes::rolleyes:
how about..."what's your favorite flavor ice cream"? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
The question "how much are classes?" IMO, are asked by 2 types of people:
1) Someone new who doesn't know what else to ask and
2) Someone who doesn't want quality in training but cheapness in pricing.
Perhaps that is how you were viewed when you asked that question.
swift is the river...lolmore proficient the rafter...
bawang
10-11-2008, 12:38 PM
hi later than ever, you went in to the school, you didnt talk to the sifu, and the first thing u ask is about schedules and money. thats not the right mindset for kung fu.
hi later than ever, you went in to the school, you didnt talk to the sifu, and the first thing u ask is about schedules and money. thats not the right mindset for kung fu.i ask if they can juggle...
bawang
10-11-2008, 12:42 PM
i think you must've popped your membrane because i cant understand a single thing youve been saying in ur 500 posts. deleted extra posts, dont need garbage flooding the thread
laterthanever, i just wanted to say talking about money up front is rude and awkward and shows disrespect and that also shows the reason you want to learn kung fu. also probably the reason they ignored you laterthanever. if they act smug and smirk it means they found u weird. dont take offence!
when i first went to toronto it was the first time i was in a big city i was hungry and nervous and stressed,never went into an official school, never trained with caucasians before, so i gave a HUGE wrong impression to a lot of kung fu peeps over there. first impresion is everything and u need to act normal and not weird and awkward thats my advice to u laterthanever
stfu
i like pie
obviously if someone cannot juggle, they have no basis to tout reflex.:)
sry i have edited my reply to JUGGLE MY BALLS.
your comment made a lot of sense and has opened my mind to the outer poers of the qi. i understand now.obviously your reflex is out of whack.
i think you must've popped your membrane because i cant understand a single thing youve been saying in ur 500 posts.probably because i wasn't really trying to explain anything...
deleted extra posts, dont need garbage flooding the threadsomeone will find it interesting i am sure.:D
LaterthanNever
10-11-2008, 01:20 PM
First,
I DID talk to the sifu. (the first time I went there). I introduced myself..shook his hand, told him I admired his students and what they did,etc., etc.(re-read my post).
The first time I went in, I talked to the sifu who gave me the e-mail of a student who trains there and (presumably) is the person to ask regarding taking lessons, fees,etc.
Why the sifu could not provide me w/ this info and deferred me to the student still bewilders me(I didn't interrupt classes..I went AFTER all the training had been done).
after e-mailing this student 3x in a row and(yes..I was polite) I figured.."this sure is not a professionally run school"..I thought "well..it never hurts to ask again in person".
First,
I DID talk to the sifu. I introduced myself..shook his hand, told him I admired his students and what they did,etc., etc.(re-read my post)
The first time I went in, I talked to the sifu who gave me the e-mail of a student who trains there and (presumably) is the person to ask regarding taking lessons, fees,etc.
Why the sifu could not provide me w/ this info and deferred me to the student still bewilders me(I didn't interrupt classes..I went AFTER all the training had been done).muddy water is unfit to drink.
bawang
10-11-2008, 01:25 PM
that was my point u were being extra polite and awkward when the sifu is just an averge person like you and me. hes not mr miyagi from karate kid .and you were asking about money and fees instead of their style and what they do.
cjurakpt
10-11-2008, 01:28 PM
hi later than ever, you went in to the school, you didnt talk to the sifu, and the first thing u ask is about schedules and money. thats not the right mindset for kung fu.
:confused:
c'mon - I mean, if he was given an intro / reference to a closed-door school, meeting the teacher in a very low-key manner in the back of a tea shop, certainly, any talk of logistics initially in that case could be inappropriate, unless the sifu brought it up himself;
but that's not what happened: it was a public school, with open doors! I mean, if they don't want people making inquiries, WTF are they doing training out in the open? honestly, this is the kind BS that screws up TCMA - basically wanting the whole world to know how superior and at the same time how inaccessible you are: if you want to parade yourself in public, people are gonna ask what's up - and that's when you get to play the old switcher-oo of "we can't talk about it" - that's just passive-aggressive BS, underscoring the psychological need of the school members to be special and exclusive;
and from the way I read the initial post, the guy seemed to be very respectful and appropriate, attempting repeatedly to make contact through the channels he was told to use, and quite frankly, was treated disrespectfully at the least by not receiving an answer; so I think for him to be a bit proactive and ask some questions was not out of line
and in fact, as it stands, there is no uniform way of this playing out; when I first met Chan Tai Shan, he was like "I will teach you "x", you will pay me "x", you will come on "x" at "x" time"; no BS; similarly, w/my current teacher, even though it was a relatively "closed door" school (admission by referral from current student only), the first time I met him, after we spoke briefly, he was like "classes are these days, cost this much a month"; again, no BS - the common theme was that if you were out, you were out, but once you are in, you are in - no middle of the road cr@pola like this place seems to be playing about
unless there is something about this style that you absolutely must know, I wouldn't waste my time w/these bozos...
bawang
10-11-2008, 01:37 PM
but dood have u never met someone u dont wanna teach? if u dont want to teach some guy and u still accept him for the money thats pretty lame man. i mean not every school is money focused right, most kung fu peeps have more sense of community than contract business karate/taeekwondo schools since our community is gettin smaller. i bet buddha's left nut some of the people who learned from your sifu learned complete garbage.
but dood have u never met someone u dont wanna teach? if u dont want to teach some guy and u still accept him for the money thats pretty lame man. i mean not every school is money focused right, most kung fu peeps have more sense of community than contract business karate/taeekwondo schools since our community is gettin smaller.
i won't teach or show anyone anything unless they can juggle... and even them i end up offering advice... people need to adhere to personal principles; if you don't want to teach someone, fuking tell them.
GreenCloudCLF
10-11-2008, 01:54 PM
but dood have u never met someone u dont wanna teach? if u dont want to teach some guy and u still accept him for the money thats pretty lame man. i mean not every school is money focused right, most kung fu peeps have more sense of community than contract business karate/taeekwondo schools since our community is gettin smaller. i bet buddha's left nut some of the people who learned from your sifu learned complete garbage.
If man can't pay the rent man can't teach.
If man can't pay the rent man can't teach.if man lives under the stars, man has no rent...
GreenCloudCLF
10-11-2008, 03:15 PM
if man lives under the stars, man has no rent...
And in the extreme cold man has no place to teach weak gwai-lo's. thats why God created Kwoons.
thats why God created Kwoons.i'd be willing to say he built them.
GreenCloudCLF
10-11-2008, 04:03 PM
i'd be willing to say he built them.
And we have to pay rent for them. Martial Arts is for everyone. Not everyone we want to teach. The people we don't want to teach need it the most (Tobias)
LaterthanNever
10-11-2008, 04:05 PM
"that was my point u were being extra polite and awkward when the sifu is just an averge person like you and me."
EXTRA polite? Bawang..where did you learn your manners? I take it then, that you approached your current sifu and it went something like this:
Bawang: "Yo, whassup Dog..I see you do some o' dat chop sockie sh-t. Teach me jack-a-s, cause I wants to hurt people and sh-t. Unless you is a wimp and all"
Sifu: "Pardon me?"
Bawang: "I don't wanna be polite and sh-t cause I don't want you to think I gots respect and all dat"
Sifu: (laughing).."uh..thank you. I must get back to work".
"hes not mr miyagi from karate kid .and you were asking about money and fees instead of their style and what they do."
The FIRST THING I ASKED was about their style..it's history, approach to teaching,etc.etc...if they have relations to another lineage of the same style,etc.etc.
After gaining that info..I moved onto other specifics that come into the equation at SOME point. Unless you learn from your sifu by osmosis and pay him in turkish travelers checks or monopoly money.
And "dood"(are you trying to say "dude"?) ..as far as them "not wanting to teach me"..then why do they adveretise? They teach in a NEIGHBORHOOD COMMUNITY CENTER. It's not like in the movie "Golden Child" with Eddie Murphy where he has to learn some secret chant/hand signal and invoke some mystical code.
Bawang--take this to heart ok? There is one in every group. There are some people who will defend/stick up for others no matter how unprofessional. It seems you are that person.
And we have to pay rent for them. Martial Arts is for everyone. Not everyone we want to teach. The people we don't want to teach need it the most (Tobias)if martial arts is for everyone, it wouldn't be charged for. i teach for free...
GreenCloudCLF
10-11-2008, 04:22 PM
if martial arts is for everyone, it wouldn't be charged for. i teach for free...
Teachers have to eat. Would you rather pay to learn from someone who teaches full-time or learn for free form someone who flips burgers during the day?
cjurakpt
10-11-2008, 04:55 PM
but dood have u never met someone u dont wanna teach?
if u dont want to teach some guy and u still accept him for the money thats pretty lame man. i mean not every school is money focused right, most kung fu peeps have more sense of community than contract business karate/taeekwondo schools since our community is gettin smaller.
here's the deal: if your livelihood is not teaching, then you can accept whomever you like, all the time - you can be as picky as you want, it's your hobby / avocation, but not your source of income, and you can enjoy being a member of the "community" with all it's foibles and regressive attitudes about teaching; but if it is your livelihood, it's just a drag on everything; now, depending on what your current economic situation is (e.g. - how many mouths do you have to feed), you may have be able to reject someone you "don't like"; but here's the thing: if you start doing that, then your reputation will be impacted after a while, and that attitude will come back to bite you in the but sooner or later;
now, if you really are a professional teacher, you will accept people you "don't like" because of the fact that you are a professional; by analogy, as a PT, I have treated many patients that I don't like, some that I absolutely couldn't stand, in fact; but, because of my training as a professional, I am able to put my personal feelings aside and work with those people anyway; so a professional MA teacher will know how to maintain appropriate boundaries in order to factor out the personal stuff - unfortunately, unlike healthcare, there is not much in the way of formal training for peeps to learn this, and no educational / license requirements to filter out those who are just no good at it (heck, even in healthcare you still get practitioners who, although well aware of the ethical issues and all, still cross lines they shouldn't cross and have difficulty behaving professionally, even having had all the training!)
anyway, that all has nothing to do with my original point, which was that the school was in a PUBLIC place, teaching OPENLY to people; as such, the whole evasiveness bit was just ridiculous and berating the guy for asking questions about scheduling and tuition is just non-sensical;
i bet buddha's left nut some of the people who learned from your sifu learned complete garbage.
from Chan Tai San, yes and no; anyone who came to learn from CTS always were given the benefit of the doubt - typically they would either admit to being total beginners, and would be passed on to the group class to get a foundation and then come back to study w/CTS directly when they were up to it - pretty much everyone who did this and stuck it out ended up doing ok; or, they came in talking about how totally awesome they were and wanted only to study directly w/CTS - so he would take them and if they were able to follow what he did, fine, they got the "good stuff"; if they were not able to follow what he did (more often the case), then he would pass them along to one of the senior students to be "tutored"; then, one of two things would then happen: a) the guy would be a d1ck, acting offended that he was being relegated to one of us, and continue to act like he knew what the deal was, which would then result in that senior student backing off and simply leaving them to flounder on their own; as such, CTS would just keep decreasing the level of difficulty until by the end they were doing a form that consisted of pretty much beginner line basics; b) they realized how clueless they were and were highly appreciative of the fact that someone was helping them out of the hole they had dug for themselves; note: the reason the "core" group of seniors were able to learn as effectively as we did was because we were helping each other out constantly, cross-referencing what we learned and watched each other learn stuff in order to make sure no one missed anything (e.g. - some detail lost while their back was briefly turned)
as far as my current sifu, as far as I am aware, he has never taught "garbage" to anyone;
bawang
10-11-2008, 05:06 PM
true cjurapkt, i guess if youre livelihood is teaching kung fu then any paying member is good. but laterthanever just said its at a community center. i read between the cracks because his "problem" sounds common.
i wasnt trying to offend btw, i repsect ur teacher mang. i dont mean teach bad stuff, i meant if the guy didnt learn anything but was stil kept for milking. but same as my last point, nothing wrong if your living depends on it, i forgot about that and i respect that cuz when youre living on the tight edge especially in chinatown!!!!!!!! ( i understand!!!) you dont really care about honor and all that. u get a survival mentality and u do anything to make a living
hi laterthanever, the reason im dewfending the schools is theyre a informal gathering at a friggin community center and youre trying to get all businesslike, and youre browsing through kung fu schools like grocery shopping. it sounds like you dont know kung fu you just like to visit schools. learn to take rejection man lol no hotisilty intended. maybe i am wrong but u dont give enough details and youre just sounding like the average 110 pounds new inquirer. thats what it sounds like ot me man
LaterthanNever
10-11-2008, 06:18 PM
I'm trying to get "businesslike"?
Look..when you finally WERE at the point where the invevitable happened(assuming your sifu agreed to teach you) and you at some point needed to know how much lessons cost, and unless you read his mind for tuition rates by some psychic intervention, there is no sense to what you are saying here! When your logic begins to make sense..I'll let ya know..
Just how do you expect people to ask?
You can either ask in a normal manner(ie: businesslike)
OR...
You can be a rude idiot...
As for me not knowing kung fu...
4 plus years of Hung Ga under a senior student(sifu) of Grandmaster Frank Yee
2 years of Wing Tsun
2 years going on 3 of Ba Gua under Master BK Frantzis
Teachers have to eat.then buy food, raise chickens, and grow a garden.
Would you rather pay to learn from someone who teaches full-time or learn for free form someone who flips burgers during the day?that depends entirely on wether or not they have something worth learning... atleast the burger flipper can eat without teaching martial arts...:p
GreenCloudCLF
10-12-2008, 03:17 AM
then buy food, raise chickens, and grow a garden.
that depends entirely on wether or not they have something worth learning... atleast the burger flipper can eat without teaching martial arts...:p
To buy food, last time I checkde, you need $$$
To buy food, last time I checkde, you need $$$then get a job.:cool:
GreenCloudCLF
10-12-2008, 05:31 AM
then get a job.:cool:
I teach martial arts:rolleyes:
and from the way I read the initial post, the guy seemed to be very respectful and appropriate, attempting repeatedly to make contact through the channels he was told to use, and quite frankly, was treated disrespectfully at the least by not receiving an answer; so I think for him to be a bit proactive and ask some questions was not out of line
unless there is something about this style that you absolutely must know, I wouldn't waste my time w/these bozos...
I agree, I don't see why this thread has gotten to four pages. The OP asked the same questions any other person would have.
I say look somewhere else and write these guys off.....
unkokusai
10-12-2008, 11:40 AM
i teach for free...
It seems your students are being grossly overcharged!
It seems your students are being grossly overcharged!they get out of it what they put into it.
unkokusai
10-12-2008, 11:57 AM
And nothing else, I'd wager.
And nothing else, I'd wager.i wish i was compassionate enough to say i am sorry you're life is so miserable...but fortunately i have other things to waste my time on.
unkokusai
10-12-2008, 03:16 PM
i wish i was compassionate enough to say i am sorry you're life is so miserable...but fortunately i have other things to waste my time on.
I'm sure you do, puke.
I'm sure you do, puke.you just can't get away from all the vomit in your life i see...:D
unkokusai
10-12-2008, 03:33 PM
Now you're just becoming tedious. Run along, boy.
Now you're just becoming tedious. Run along, boy.nah... i am having more fun pushing you onto your face.:)
unkokusai
10-12-2008, 04:54 PM
Oh yeah, that's exactly what you are doing, kid... :rolleyes:
B-Rad
10-12-2008, 07:14 PM
Honestly, it sounds like the teacher isn't in charge. Sounds like some people wanted to learn kungfu and hired him to come teach. He gets his paycheck and lets the head students determine advertising, class sizes, prices, etc. while the teacher focuses on teaching.
True fact:
When Kung Fu magazine started up the website David Jameson had already been there for a year...
It's true.'Cept he wasn't "David Jamieson" then, he was ____ ___. Bonus points for the old timers who remember.
SimonM
10-14-2008, 06:17 AM
Some of us do still remember. I'll not say though, that would spoil the guessing game for the newbies. :D
IronFist
10-14-2008, 11:16 AM
Dude it doesn't sound like you really want to train there. They sound like a bunch of uppity chodes.
Find a better school.
SimonM
10-14-2008, 12:35 PM
:cool:
Did somebody say Chode?
points to avatar
TenTigers
10-14-2008, 07:08 PM
1) the Sifu does not handle the matters such as tuition and scheduling, and intros. That is left to the senior student.
2) the senior gave you the brush-off. This may or may not be real. Apparantly, the Sifu had an interest?
My advice, as you seem very interested in learning this style, from this particular Sifu, is stick it out. Testing a potenial student's desire does still go on today.
You will find out one way or the other. Go to the school every tie they meet for classes and stay and watch. hang out, be a regular fixture there. They will eventually either let you join, or tell you not to come back.
If they tell you the latter, come back anyway.
Keep coming back until you yourself decide that they seriously don't teach gwailos, and then shrug your shoulders and move on.
At least you gave it your best shot.
No matter what anyone says, if YOU think it has value for YOU, then do what ya gotta do. This is your trip, oh sh1t, I meant to say,"personal journey." it sounds so much more deep,n stuff.
LaterthanNever
10-15-2008, 11:07 AM
TT,
Thanks for your input(and everyone else also).
)" the Sifu does not handle the matters such as tuition and scheduling, and intros. That is left to the senior student."
I have no qualms about this. As long as I could be told some accurate info by somebody.
2) "the senior gave you the brush-off. This may or may not be real. Apparantly, the Sifu had an interest?"
Brush-off. Yes. What do you mean by "real,etc." and an "interest" insofar as what?
"If they tell you the latter, come back anyway."
I can see you are a true traditionalist. Not as common in the current MA climate. Do you feel this is wise though(coming back almost like the "recruits" in the movie "Fight Club"? So as to not generate bad vibes...
"Keep coming back until you yourself decide that they seriously don't teach gwailos, and then shrug your shoulders and move on."
Color does not seem to matter in this place. And I'm only mentioning this since the issue of Chinese vs. non-Chinese came up. They have african american students, caucasian students, both women and men,etc.
Songshan
10-19-2008, 05:40 PM
Something doesn't sound right here. I do believe there are martial art instructors that teach privately but the arrogance of this place sounds fishy. You should go back and ask questions, conduct some surviellance and go from there. Have you asked around to see if anyone has ever trained there?? Curious..what style of martial arts is this???
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