Body conditioning VS form practice

[mantis7]

Greetings all...

OK lets see what kind of answers that we get here..

What is more important forms or body conditioning , cardio building and strength training... And yes I know I will get answers like they go hand in hand.. That is true but the topic I brought here comes from a discussion I have had with other martial artist from gung fu and other discipline... Now for the major part my training has consisted of 3 star training , Iron palm training, shin conditioning, Static posture movements, jump training, cardio training ( yes I know everyone will say that forms create a great cardio workout but everyone doesnt do it that way) And drilling my basics and stance training and only doing my forms to remember them and to pull out technique for more drills...

You see I feel gung fu fighters should be trained like boxers... Cardio training, stance work foot work constant bag work ( using gung fu skills) shadow boxing and the like.. I feel this helps the Gung fu practioner get intuned with his/her body and learn how to apply techniques in any given situation.. Instead of just practicing forms only...plus I know this will create a major drop in commercial schools because everyone doesnt want to be a fighter......so like I say this is only the way I see things...

Well lets see what kind of answers come to the question..

SHOULD FORMS BE A MAJOR PART OF TRAINING OR JUST A MINOR PART TO COMBAT TRAINING AND CONDITIONING>>>>>>>

[7kicks]

I think training in all areas is the only way to go. Forms are great, but you have to do them with a kung fu attitude what I mean is to do them just as movement is like walking. You have to get into them and visualize your targets like if you were in a fight. If you think you can get by just doing forms then you have sold yourself short. Use the techniques as a boxer would. Set up targets to hit as you practice form to actually get resistance instead of hitting air. Use arm and leg weights to condition your body as you do forms. I think forms are a major part in training for kung fu practitioners these are where you get the basic fighting techniques for defense and offense and it is up to the individual to fine tune these areas. Personally I like forms and I think they offer alot but I do not solely rely on them for all of my training. I think contact with a partner is very important it is the closest thing to combat. So I like to spar hard, I think sparring is conditioning your body more realistically forms.

[mantis108]

Hi Mantis7,

I am a Tai Chi Praying Mantis practitioner and I hear you big time on this one. If you are interested email me for a training program of my class.

My email is:sifu1@internorth.com


Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

[bamboo_ leaf]

I agree, but i might add thire are many levels to form play. Sparing is a good way to test timeing and understanding of diffrent techs learnd from the sets.

i see a trap in sparing, after awhile you may catch the timeing of the person your training with and the type of movements that they favor.

Its not alway possable to spar with diffrent people from other styles in a learning enviorment. So useing movements from the sets and prefecting them againts a live apponent is very good training method to interduce new movements and ideas into your play of PM. As far as body conditioning i think that much of that can also be gained through form play. again it depends on the level of play and what aspects your after.


forms are not an end unto itself, They are tools given by the teachers of long ago.

From reading many post on this subject it seems that many people are confused or missguided in thier pratice of CMA with respect to the usage and practice of forms.

enjoy life

bamboo leaf

[This message was edited by bamboo_ leaf on 10-28-00 at 02:58 PM.]

[This message was edited by bamboo_ leaf on 10-28-00 at 03:00 PM.]

[Rolling Elbow]

screwed up the post...read next one down please
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[Rolling Elbow]

Mantis7, I think you have nailed it here..if martial artist want to be trained as fighters, they are going to have to suffer and sweat through the traiing like real fighters..we may not train as much as pro fighters, but to a certain degree, basics must be worked on, conditioning must be worked on, and combat skills of both high stress, bag drills (with your arts concepts of course), and body conditioning need to be discovered if ones MA is going to be street worthy...empty forms are good exercise but if you do not know their function and can not strip them down to the dirty brutal effectiveness that they are intended to be used for.Ones MA training is no different then tai-bo really. I honestly feel this because all the forms in the world and static training will really get you nowhere if it hurts you just as much as it would an untrained opponent when you hit him with your fist or take a shot in the ribs.

I am actually ashamed that I don't train movement, and muscle exhaustion further in order to get more power and combat explosiveness for when I will need it. This post is an excellent wake up call to all those who have misled or been misled into thinking that training is always a pleasurable experience and that it is just "fun" without any of the pain and patience that must come with it..as my good friend Don once said.."if you don't wanna get hit and feel we always have to take things easy..then go take something else... This isn't balley after all"

Mantis7 you have the upper hand..conditioing goes a very long way in winning fights..posturing or knowing forms does not. And the way Bruce Lee drilled himself and trained..i think maybe he was trying to make this point about kungfu and karate as he saw it in the US at that time too: soft and aimed more at pleasing people as an art form rather than a combat form.(but that's only one opinion..mine, and it don't count for much)There is a reason why my instructor kicks ass, he has been training this way for close to 30 years...it does make a difference.

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Michael Panzerotti
Taijutsu Nobody from the Great White North..