The reality of the street

[sanjuro_ronin]

Fact is, the vast majority of attacks are by multiple attackers AND they are armed, we all know this, yet...

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2008/10/14/7075276-sun.html


Stabbing victim tried to aid girlfriend
By TAMARA CHERRY, SUN MEDIA


TORONTO -- Brandon Paltooram was trying to stick up for his girlfriend when he ended up stabbed to death on a Mississauga street, police said yesterday.

"It appears his girlfriend was assaulted by this group of individuals and he went to intervene, to help, along with his friend," said homicide Insp. Norm English, of Peel Regional Police.

The 19-year-old victim was one of three young men killed in a murderous night in Mississauga over the weekend.

The dispute started at an apartment party on Rathkeale Rd., near Creditview Rd. and Eglinton Ave., and spilled onto Rosewater Court at 12:30 a.m. Sunday. It ended with Paltooram pronounced dead in hospital and his friend, a 20-year-old Toronto man, suffering from serious stab wounds.

Though there were several young men against Paltooram and his friend, English didn't think they were all armed with knives. He urged those involved in the "physical altercation" to "come forward."

This was one of three killings in Mississauga which happened over a period of four hours and 15 minutes late Saturday and early Sunday, marking an all-time homicide high for Peel Region this year.

Bullets tore through a Pickfair Dr. engagement party, near Airport Rd. and Derry Rd. E., around 11:30 p.m. Saturday, killing 29-year-old Hardupinder "Harry" Gill of Mississauga.

Two others were injured in the gunfire -- one man, 22, remained in hospital with serious injuries yesterday, while another, 29, was grazed by a bullet. However, given that Gill was killed by gunshot wounds to his chest and face, English suspects he was an intended target.

The gunman -- described as a South Asian man in his mid-20s, 5-foot-8, with short black hair and a black jacket -- ran off before hijacking a black Honda Civic at gunpoint on Mallbridge Cres., English said. The car was found torched near Mavis Rd. and Hwy. 401.

About 20 or 30 people had gathered in the garage where Gill was killed, but "co-operation (with police) is extremely poor here," English said.

The third murder victim of the night -- and Peel's 23rd of the year -- was Kamaul Japp, 22, of Brampton. Gang violence appears to be behind the hail of bullets that killed Japp outside Sugar Island Restaurant and Bar on Dixie Rd., just north of Britannia Rd. E., around 3:45 a.m. English said Japp was known to police.

[sanjuro_ronin]

We have to be honest with ourselves, truthful, does the training we do, prepare us for an armed encounter, even a one-on-one ? much less a one-on-more?
It's all well and good to say that there isn't much we can do or that it's best to run and avoid it, but as the above case shows, that is not always an option, actually from what I gather speaking to a couple of detectives in the violent crimes division, it is typically "impossible" to run.

SO, what do YOU do?

[Lucas]

awareness and proper analysis and reaction can be the deciding factor sometimes in cases like this.

for instance did he and his girlfriend get jumped or did he see or hear of her having problems, then go over there.

if several guys are messing with my woman, ill not confront them right out if i can avoid it. ill hit one from behind by suprise with a weapon as fast as I can (hopefully the biggest meanest or the person in obvious charge if there is one) and immediatly go for the second. the best one i can get my hands on as quickly as possible. Or call the police.

in situations where you cannot run, cannot gain the element of suprise, cannot resolve the situation with words, or turn to law enforcement, turn tooth and fight to the death i suppose. not much else one can do.

multiple person sparring can at least get you used to movement with more than one aggressor. learning to shield with footwork and to keep moving barriers as best as you can. also learning how to cope with attackers coming at multiple angles. plus its hella fun

[sanjuro_ronin]

awareness and proper analysis and reaction can be the deciding factor sometimes in cases like this.

for instance did he and his girlfriend get jumped or did he see or hear of her having problems, then go over there.

if several guys are messing with my woman, ill not confront them right out if i can avoid it. ill hit one from behind by suprise with a weapon as fast as I can (hopefully the biggest meanest or the person in obvious charge if there is one) and immediatly go for the second. the best one i can get my hands on as quickly as possible. Or call the police.

in situations where you cannot run, cannot gain the element of suprise, cannot resolve the situation with words, or turn to law enforcement, turn tooth and fight to the death i suppose. not much else one can do.

multiple person sparring can at least get you used to movement with more than one aggressor. learning to shield with footwork and to keep moving barriers as best as you can. also learning how to cope with attackers coming at multiple angles. plus its hella fun

I believe he went to pick her up and saw her being assaulted.

How many of us go around "armed"?
Have a knife on them for example, or carry an "attitude adjuster" in the car?
How many of us carry "equalizers" with us?
Concealed items that can be used as weapons to "even" the odds as much as we can?
How many of us train in a way that we watch our backs?

[Lucas]

ive always kind of been paranoid in the sense that i like to know what is going on around me at all times. i like to know what everyone is up to and keep my eyes open.

one of my major personal strengths is that i am pretty attentive and have a knack for noticing minor details and other things a lot of people seem to overlook, also being able to intuitively, or deductively tell what people are up to, especially those shady guys. (for instance, I work at a bank, last time we were robbed at gunpoint the FBI agent was suprised I knew the robbers gun wasnt loaded, which was later confirmed by our survailance photos, not to mention i could tell the color of his skin even though he was wearing a mask and had no skin showing) its always been hard to sneak up on me or suprise me. observing body language and movement is also kind of a full time hobby of mine.

when I was a boy, my uncle told me to always watch people. watch how they drink their coffee, watch how they sit down, watch how they walk and gesture, etc. he always told me you could learn a lot just by watching people. turns out he was right.

**** back to work... :(

[Lucas]

as far as carrying goes, i pretty much always have a knife (http://www.armynavydeals.com/asp/images/product_images/3442.jpg) on me.

but being in a situation to have it drawable is the issue. being jumped, gonna be difficult until you can clear yourself, if you can.

some situations are just not going to be easy to train for.

random stabbing out of the blue by some guy sitting next to you for no really aparent reason, like the greyhound dude.

sorry, not much training is gonna save you there. i dont care how quick you are, you are probably a dead man.

[sanjuro_ronin]

as far as carrying goes, i pretty much always have a knife (http://www.armynavydeals.com/asp/images/product_images/3442.jpg) on me.

but being in a situation to have it drawable is the issue. being jumped, gonna be difficult until you can clear yourself, if you can.

some situations are just not going to be easy to train for.

random stabbing out of the blue by some guy sitting next to you for no really aparent reason, like the greyhound dude.

sorry, not much training is gonna save you there. i dont care how quick you are, you are probably a dead man.

Nice, I carry an Emerson CQB-7 Tanto tip and can draw it very well in an altercation, simple because I train it.
Of course I typically use my H2H to create the room to draw it.
Almost all situations can be simulated and a "defense plan" drawn out to at least give you a chance.

[Lucas]

ive thought a few times of switching over to one of my sheath blades, so its not folded. but then its just harder to conceal, seems faster to get into active play, but at the same time if i have time to draw the blade, hopefully a quick draw release is fast enough to get it locked open on a folding knife.

i could just move to the boonies and carry a buckknife on my belt....

[sanjuro_ronin]

ive thought a few times of switching over to one of my sheath blades, so its not folded. but then its just harder to conceal, seems faster to get into active play, but at the same time if i have time to draw the blade, hopefully a quick draw release is fast enough to get it locked open on a folding knife.

i could just move to the boonies and carry a buckknife on my belt....

A good folder can be used as a "kubotan" to create the opening for the blade.

[Lucas]

A good folder can be used as a "kubotan" to create the opening for the blade.

true true.

i guess with the folders now days its not that big of a deal.

also i suppose it can be opened as you pull it out of your pocket/offtheclip anywho.

i always cringe when i see old folders with no blade lock ><

[sanjuro_ronin]

true true.

i guess with the folders now days its not that big of a deal.

also i suppose it can be opened as you pull it out of your pocket/offtheclip anywho.

i always cringe when i see old folders with no blade lock ><

I know a guy that can do wonders with a balisong...even in the middle of a full on fight.

[Lucas]

I've spent a bit o time with that puppy. I'm no marvel but i can handle one. But no way am I where I would prefer one in a fight.

the guys that live with those things in their hands can be pretty scary though.

it reminds me of nunchaku of the knife family

[unkokusai]

Does anyone know this area where all these killings took place that night?

[Lucas]

Does anyone know this area where all these killings took place that night?

TORONTO; Mississauga

[unkokusai]

TORONTO; Mississauga


I mean is anyone familiar with it?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I mean is anyone familiar with it?

Very Much so.

[unkokusai]

Very Much so.




Is it an area where you would be shocked to hear about a violent crime taking place?

[Lucas]

ohhhh

hehe i can totally see what you meant now.

Im not at all.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Is it an area where you would be shocked to hear about a violent crime taking place?

Well, outside of the Jane and Finch area in toronto and certain places in Scarborough, most people would be surprised that a violent crime happend in any given area.
I am not, but most people would be.

[TaichiMantis]

Here you go, reality from the farm! Never stalk a woman carrying a sickle...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27234386/:rolleyes:

[jimmi555]

We have to be honest with ourselves, truthful, does the training we do, prepare us for an armed encounter, even a one-on-one ? much less a one-on-more?
It's all well and good to say that there isn't much we can do or that it's best to run and avoid it, but as the above case shows, that is not always an option, actually from what I gather speaking to a couple of detectives in the violent crimes division, it is typically "impossible" to run.

SO, what do YOU do?

Im sure the guy that got stabed in the story was not a martial artist, i know my training involved extensive knife and club tekniques that came in very handy many times in the street, i never feard persons with a knife and have desarmed servral knife attacks,but if some one is untrained there is definetly a problem facing any kind of wepon attack,if some one pulls a wepon out the denger level just got elevated,im no longer trying to just defend my self, i will fu,,,ng kill him
now its him that has to wory not me,its a state of mind nothing else,when it comes to big fish eating little fish ,well im the greate white shark not some one with a knife

[jimmi555]

I believe he went to pick her up and saw her being assaulted.

How many of us go around "armed"?
Have a knife on them for example, or carry an "attitude adjuster" in the car?
How many of us carry "equalizers" with us?
Concealed items that can be used as weapons to "even" the odds as much as we can?
How many of us train in a way that we watch our backs?

most people attack using brass nuckles or knife, im not wory about eather,now if they have a gun that changes things,but other then a gun ,they only get me mad and thats not good for them,im always ready and expecting others to have a wepon cause most are cowerds to face you with out a wepon,so best be ready for that

[diego]

We have to be honest with ourselves, truthful, does the training we do, prepare us for an armed encounter, even a one-on-one ? much less a one-on-more?
It's all well and good to say that there isn't much we can do or that it's best to run and avoid it, but as the above case shows, that is not always an option, actually from what I gather speaking to a couple of detectives in the violent crimes division, it is typically "impossible" to run.

SO, what do YOU do?

the reality of the street is you put the pen in your pocket into buddys face right before the rest of them boot **** you...at least that one guy may think twice about jumping people what with a blue bic sticking out of his ****ing nose :)

that's about it...buy a gun

[GeneChing]

I didn't think it deserved its own thread. It's not really relevant to the original posting, but the thread title applies somewhat...

Martial arts talk lands So. Lee man in the hospital (http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2009/jan/07/martial-arts-talk-lands-so-lee-man-hospital/)
Originally published 12:54 p.m., Wednesday, January 7, 2009
Updated 12:54 p.m., Wednesday, January 7, 2009

FORT MYERS — A conversation about martial arts and extensive knowledge of the art preceded a fight Jan. 1 that sent a South Fort Myers man to the hospital five days later with severe injuries.

John Clifford Estberg, 46, on Tuesday afternoon told a Lee County Sheriff’s Office deputy a man he knows only by a first name beat him after the victim turned to watch a television about 9 p.m. Jan. 1 at the San Carlos Country Club bar, 19137 U.S. 41 South. The person hit on the right side of his face and head and knocked to the ground unprovoked, records show.

Once on the floor Estberg was repeatedly kicked and punched in the face, back and rib cage by the person while a large crowd gathered. After several minutes, two “unknown” patrons pulled the person off Estberg so he could escape.

“Estberg left the area on foot and was picked up by a passerby and taken home for the evening,” an incident report shows.

The injuries worsened to the point he was taken to Lee Memorial Hospital emergency room where he was treated for a ruptured eye, facial fractures, swelling in his face and eyes and bruising on his back and rib cage, according to the incident report.

Esteberg was certain the acquaintance was the person who hit him. The suspect’s name was blacked out from the report.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I didn't think it deserved its own thread. It's not really relevant to the original posting, but the thread title applies somewhat...

I know a few big mouths that like to watch UFC that probably deserve that.
:D

[Wild Monk]

If you can't protect it than it is not yours , anyone can come and take it.

I don't comprehend why everyone is taken aback by this I mean doesn't everyone here train armed vs unarmed or multiple attackers type of self defense in their kwoon.


or am I the last of a dying breed of all around Kung Fu practitioners

[martial09k]

Hi, i've read this thread and thought it's interesting to share since we're talking about reality fight; http://www.pragmaticmartialarts.com/forum/index.php?topic=253.0