US Open International Martial Arts Championship XII

[GeneChing]

US Open International Martial Arts Championship XII featuring: Art of War VII Extreme Sanshou-K. Superstar World Fighting Championship and Shaolin Legacy Kungfu Show - 11-07-2008 (3 days) (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/news/index.php?month=11&year=2008)

Anyone here going? Aside from me?

[lkfmdc]

The official motto of any event done by Shawn Liu

"fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me"

Many people should be shamed to keep going back for more of the same serving of turd pie

[GeneChing]

I'm guessing that was '97 or '98. I was still working for WLE back then and ran a table. He was trying to stage a bare knuckle and it got shut down. Nevertheless, he hosted Shi Deyang (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=89), and it was great to hang out with him.

This year, he plans to have Shi Deyang and my own master, Shi Decheng (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=500). A gaggle of disciples are gathering, which will surely be amusing.

[GreenCloudCLF]

The official motto of any event done by Shawn Liu

"fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me"

Many people should be shamed to keep going back for more of the same serving of turd pie

I actually enjoy turd pie with a nice espresso.

[lkfmdc]

I'm guessing that was '97 or '98. I was still working for WLE back then and ran a table. He was trying to stage a bare knuckle and it got shut down.



Shawn Liu has absolutely NO REGARD for the people who fight in his events, nor for the people who were forced to "train under him" by the USA WKF. Shameless....

[GeneChing]

Don't worry, lkfmdc. You don't have to go just because I'm going. I'll tell Shawn. I'm sure you'll be missed. :rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

Shame shame Gene Ching

Anyone who has taken a basic coaching course in ANY sport knows that coaching rule #1 is "provide a safe practice" which includes a safe facility

A rotten, old mat with HOLES in it is not a safe mat, especially when an athlete gets his foot stuck in a hole and tears ligaments in his knee!

Of course, you could begin by questioning why people who were part of winning teams to begin with were FORCED to go to Shawn's place where there was virtually no structrured training and nothing of value going on

OR we could question why a guy who never produced a single ranked San Shou/San Da figher was put in charge of the team to begin with :rolleyes:

Now, as far as his events, ILLEGAL, UNINSURED, gross mismatches, pros vs amateurs, people promised money that was never paid, people whose coaches ere thrown out of the building during their match for simply pointing out that Shawn was wrong

Do we really need to go there Gene? :rolleyes:

Shawn, who thinks all white people are stupid, that we couldn't possibly speak CHinese, and that no one is smart enough to go to China, talk to real coaches and find out the truth about him....

YUP, I'll stick with shameless

[GeneChing]

You want to go there or you wouldn't keep replying. Feel free to keep replying. That's what the forum is for.

I'm still going to his event and like always, I look forward to seeing anyone from the forum. :D

[lkfmdc]

You want to go there or you wouldn't keep replying. Feel free to keep replying. That's what the forum is for.

I'm still going to his event and like always, I look forward to seeing anyone from the forum. :D

Gene you SHOULD go

1. your in the media and events should get media coverage, the light of day is good for events

2. there's going to be a gaggle of shaolin monks, so have a zen old time

[GeneChing]

Truth be told, whenever I board an airplane for an event, it's strictly business. ;)

Only the local stuff (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52267) is complimentary.

And there's only two monks on the card, Deyang and Decheng, which is several shy of a gaggle. We'll see if they show. You'll get to read about it if they do. And since Decheng is my master, you'll surely get to read about it if they don't.

[scc703]

I am embarrassed for you, IKFMDC. Everyone in the group knows who you are and we know your background. However, we choose not to bash you since we promote Harmony and Sportsmanship. We do understand that you have strong emotional PERSONAL feelings however those that are not as familiar with your background may misconstrue your personal opinions for fact. I have worked with Master Shawn Liu for a long time and was a chief organizer for the 2001 event in Atlanta (which you attended). We all know how great this event turned out to be, we know what happened to you there, and the resulting bans from future events. Again we promote Harmony and Sportsmanship. We can’t be responsible for individuals actions as only the individual themselves can control their own actions.
For all of you that may not be so versed on Master Liu and the US Open International Martial Arts Tournaments, I would like to provide you with a few details:

You may find some amazing documentaries on Master Liu as CCTV (largest Network in China) has filmed 6 of them. Some of them include: “Shawn Liu in America”, “Legend of Monk “Iron Leg”, and “Founding Father of Sanshou”. CCTV has also attended ALL of Master Liu’s US Open Tournaments and they will be there for the upcoming event on Nov. 7th, 8th, and 9th. You can also search Youtube and find some great videos on Master Liu and Sanshou.

As I mentioned before I was chief coordinator for the 2001 event. For this event we had over 150 competitors. This included the Italian Team, Poland Team, Teams from Canada, and Puerto Rico (to name a few). Our K. Superstar fights included: Cung Le, Rudy Ott, and Max Chen (to name a few).

Some of the attendees included: Anthony Goh, Chris Facente, Gary Utterback, Martha Burr (executive editor of Pacific Rim Publishing and Products), Master Malee Khow, was covered by Black Belt Magazine, and many, many more.

This event was well organized, we had the largest crowd ever at the Superstar fights, and I was personally in awe at the opportunities that I had to meet Masters from all over the World.

I hold the upmost respect and trust for Master Liu. I know that this year’s event will be a grand event as we have confirmed many well-known fighters, participants, Seminar Masters, and all of our traditional Sanshou group will be in attendance to show their support for Master Liu. I encourage you all to go to www.artofwarsanshou.com to view details or go to www.liuinstitute.com for background information as well as search CCTV and Youtube for documentaries. There are many “sound” and “factual” sources out there that back Master Liu and what he stands for.

[lkfmdc]

You asked for it....

Shawn Liu arrived in the US a complete unknown. He was shown around the country by Sifu Tai Yim, a very respected traditional teacher, as a courtesy. At that time, Shawn Liu was introduced as a WUSHU COACH.

He never been able to acquire a full time position in China and thus had come to the US seeking opportunity. At no time was there ever any mention of the Shaolin temple or that Shawn Liu was a monk. Did Shawn Liu wake up one day and suddenly "remember" he had spent his entire life at the temple?

Let’s not forget history whenever we mention the Shaolin temple. It was virtually empty for most of the 20th century. In the 1980’s, after Jet Li made his famous “Shaolin Temple” film, he also did a documentary on Shaolin. At the time of that film, there were FOUR monks living in the monastery. Of course, in recent years Shaolin has become a big money making operation for the Chinese government, with details and history being played fast and loose. The Chinese government for example released a set of video tapes in the early 1990's called "a course in Shaolin". It is a compilation of several teachers, some not even strictly Shaolin. Thus, it does NOT represent the actual teaching in Shaolin or the teaching of one teacher. Is it mere coincidence that Shawn Liu first sold this set of tapes in the US in the early 1990's? It also happened to be exactly what he taught when he first arrived here? Don’t you find that the least bit interesting?

Perhaps Shawn Liu’s fantastical claims about being a Shaolin monk are the reason two other Shaolin monks have BOTH punched him in the face at major events. The most recent being a normally very cool and very well liked Shi Guolin, who bloodied Liu’s nose at Jimmy Wong's event.

Shawn Liu also took a severe beating in China recently which he tried to spin in his favor and for sympathy. However, the real facts behind that incident remain obscured.

Even as a contemporary wushu coach, Shawn Liu left a lot to be desired. During a competition in Houston, students of Jeff Bolt had to speak to him because his scores were “all over the place”.

Shawn Liu then performed what was supposed to be Chen Taijiquan at the masters’ demo. People who had actually practiced legitimate Chen Taijiquan report the performance was so bad it was embarrassing.

Shawn Liu first became "infamous" when he acted as Chinese Wushu Association president Xia Bahua's translator. Xia Bahua discovered to his horror that Shawn Liu was not translating what he was saying and was in fact pushing his own agenda. Professor Xia complained through the Chinese Wushu Association. This forced USA WKF president Anthony Goh to demand Shawn Liu issue a formal apology.

The same day, during the same lecture, Shawn Liu actually punched himself in the face and broke his glasses while trying to demonstrate a basic technique. For years, people have questioned Shawn Liu's skill level. He claims to have been a fighting champion. Of course, he claims to have done those fights while at Shaolin temple and we've already noticed that for years he never mentioned Shaolin while here in the US? And no one can find any record, pictures, movies etc of these matches? Strange don't you think?

A former national San Shou coach said of Shawn Liu, "he's a nice guy from the same province as me." but when asked about his skills and accomplishments as a fighter? The coach said he had no comment.

Shawn Liu has a habit of claiming other people's students as his own. A number of people he never trained at all he claims as his students. His complete inability to run an effective practice has been the source of jokes among the US team for years. A former member of the national team has noted that Shawn Liu is virtually clueless working the corner at events. The real truth of course is that Shawn Liu is "US coach" in name only, Jason Yee and Cung Le have been the driving forces in the actual training, as almost all of the team members have been their students anyway.

Shawn Liu has set up an institute in the United States but his students have not made a dent in the US San Shou community. Even at his own event, the US Open, they lose consistently to other teams, even non "Big 6" people. Why is a man who has never produced a champion the US team coach?

As a promoter, Shawn Liu has consistently made promises he could not deliver on. He has promoted several events which were dismal failures, only being bailed out by the good will of people like Houston's Jeff Bolt. Shawn Liu always promises to deliver international fighters, he has consistently failed to do so. At the US Open in 2001, Shawn Liu bragged he had fighters from "France, Iran, Egypt, and Trinidad" to one of the press people. He didn't mention that these fighters were members of the New York Team! (France = Nizar Balghitti, Iran = Yousef Taghizadeh, Egypt = Ahmen Mohammed, Trinidad = Richard Acosta).

The recent “K Super Star” events that Shawn Liu has run have similarly been poorly advertised, poorly run and poorly attended. With each show he gets less support from the big name fighters and traditional "Big 6" teams. If Shawn Liu had not conspired with USA WKF president Anthony Goh to have the US national team trials at his most recent event, NONE of the major programs would have attended at all. This was demonstrated by the fact that so-called “national” tournament and super fights at this event received NO support from the established programs.

Why put US San Shou in the hands of an individual who has shown a complete inability to even run an event? The so-called “national” tournament was in reality local, poorly organized, and poorly attended. It had 30 competitors, less than the local tournament NYKK did in New York in their gym! It was a pathetic attempted when compared to the Arnold Classic which had over 150 competitors including representatives of all of the original “Big 6”.

On to even more important issues, is Shawn Liu dishonest? A few people think so. It is well known that the "King of San Da" pro circuit in China pays good money to each team that comes to it's special "China vs the world" cards. Shawn Liu brought a US team, did he give the fighter's the money? Oh, did we mention that he forgot to tell a few of the US fighters that they were fighting with knees? That one "found out" the first time he got kneed?

Have the US team trials been conducted dishonestly? Maybe. We know that a major coach had to scream at the top of his lungs at Shawn Liu when a multi time national champion was going to be over looked so Shawn could put a "favorite" who had never held a title on the team instead. This isn't widely known, but a few do know about it.

A few people have said that Shawn Liu "suggested" the outcome of a few San Shou matches in the past. That's when he isn't head judge and can't simply wave off a decision ala IWUF fascist rules. In 1997 all FIVE judges had black winning in the finals of the United World event, Shawn switched it to red. Was it a coincidence that red knew Shawn? Maybe? Maybe not.

Back to more practical matters. Has Shawn Liu ever had enough influence to help out a US Team member when the IWUF was trying to do them wrong? The answer is NO. Not when Cung Le was wrongly disqualified in Italy. Not when Ray Neves was lied to and then dropped at the last worlds. Not when Albert Pope was robbed at the World Cup. He isn't a great trainer, hasn't produced any national champions of his own, and has no influence with the IWUF. Thank god he's Chinese we guess?

Has Shawn Liu gone power mad lately? It's an interesting subject to debate. He refused to attend either the US Wushu Union or the Arnold Classic because he didn't get "a special invitation". He's more special than the rest of us, remember that please. Shawn Liu arranged for the USA WKF to drop San Shou and for the team trials to be held at his event. Shawn Liu also originally scheduled his event in conflict with Cung Le’s

At this most recent event, when a coach of one of the super fight participants argued with him, Shawn Liu’s answer was to have security remove him from the building. Did we mention that the coach in question was correct, and that Shawn had acted against the terms of a contract IN WRITING. Who does Shawn Liu think he is? A tyrant?

Have we mentioned that Shawn Liu has not paid many of the coaches and athletes the money he has promised them for their participation in his events?

Finally, let us never forget that at the 2001 US Open in Atlanta, Shawn Liu told the coaches of the "Big 6" San Shou teams that the new federation was for them and that he'd only act as an “advisor”. However, he appointed himself president and CEO. Did anyone vote for him? Was there a vote? The rest of the new board suspiciously doesn't have a single member of the US San Shou community on it either. Could be he forgot about them? Maybe.

[lkfmdc]

From Ruid Ott, RE Shawn Liu

Love and Hate
By IKF World Champion and KSD Fighter of the Year Rudi Ott

What’s love got to do with it? Everything. We have love for our art, love for competition, and love for living in the present and being at our best. Love is what makes us spend many hours at smelly gyms and starve ourselves to near unconsciousness. Love gets us through aches and pains, bumps and bruises. Love picks us off the matt and gives us energy to continue to fight, win or lose. Love is the core of our being, our very existence. Love is why I'm writing this letter, and I don’t want my love to turn into hate.

As a fighter I have been very fortunate in the fact that the love growing inside me manifested itself into the drive and desire to surpass my potential and conquer my limitations. As a coach, I hope that the same internal mechanism transforms itself into a greater good, serving others. I have always felt coaching fighters is more strenuous than fighting itself. Not only do you live through your students, but also they are a direct reflection of you. If you have done your job right, they become prepared for any obstacle they might encounter. Day to day you work on them physically and mentally and hope you have given them your best. So what happens when those who put in the hard work, and achieve the desired goal, do not obtain the result they deserve? The answer...hate.

Hate seems to be the culprit behind the conflict at the recent USAWKF US National SanShou Team Selection on June 28th in Atlanta, GA. For a little history, I have been a team member in 1997, 1999, and 2001, and my coach Cung Le in 1995, 1997, and 1999. In each of those years we have also had a mix of teammates and students on the team. For Sanshou in the US, the US Team has been a benchmark for top fighters. The head coach of the US Team has always been Shawn Liu, and (if USAWKF has its way) he probably will be head coach for a long time to come. For years we (the SanShou community) have maintained a good relationship with Shawn Liu, but have never been happy with USAWKF's inability to support their athletes in anyway shape or form. Unfortunately, our relationship with Shawn Liu has since deteriorated, and he has sided with the USAWKF.

SanShou has come along way in recent years. This is a credit to the top six teams in the country, known as the “Big 6”, which comprises fighters from New York, Boston, Ohio, Oakland, Houston, and San Jose. The Big 6 has been producing top quality fighters, year in and year out. It has also grown in notoriety because of its top fighter Cung Le and the exposure he has brought to the sport. Shawn Liu also did a lot for the sport early on. Liu was first to organize SanShou tournaments and bring teams from China to compete with American athletes, which raised the bar for our athletes and set a barometer for our skills. I myself competed against a fighter from the Chinese military team in my first tournament. There is no doubt about his contribution, and for that I am grateful.

However, Shawn Liu has also been ineffective in pushing SanShou to the main stream. He has been mired in outdated principles and fighting formats, which was reflected at this year’s Team Trials. To put it bluntly, the trials were a disaster.

It started with the date being put too close to Cung Le's Born to Fight Tournament, to which all the top teams and fighters had already committed. It continued when the New York team was banned from the trials just for voicing opposition. It culminated on the day of the event. In all the years that team trials have existed, this year had the lowest participation because only the teams that wanted to deal with all the politics were willing to make the trip.

This is when hate began to rear its ugly head and direct itself at the UsH Fight Team. It is common knowledge that Cung Le and I have denounced the leadership of the USAWKF (Anthony Goh) for some time. Other teams have done the same and boycotted their events, while others tried to be diplomatic for the sake of their athletes. Well, our opposition was soon thrown back into our faces. There are only 5 positions allowed for each team out of 11 weight categories, but six fighters won their division in the recent trials. Albert Pope at 60kg, Mike Norman at 65kg, Max Chen at 70kg, Russ Middleton at 80kg, James Fanshier at 85kg and Patrick Berry at 90kg. There was a dilemma in choosing which five fighters make the team. The team must be decided by an established set of criteria. Albert, Mike, and Max have all been previous team members, so they have secured their positions. Russ Middleton won this year’s USAWKF Nationals, so he would be the next likely candidate. It came down to James Fanshier and Patrick Barry.

James has a USAWKF National title from 2000, when he beat Russ Middleton. Patrick Berry lost this year’s National to Brian Madigan, whom James recently beat in the finals of the Team Trials. In summary, James beat the fighter to whom Patrick lost and has a title from the Team’s organization. Thus, by logic, James should be the one selected, right? Wrong! Patrick was chosen instead of James. Oh, did I forget to mention that James is a member of the UsH Fight Team and that Patrick is a student of Shawn Liu? Hmmmm.

Anyone using the existing criteria would have selected James, but the powers that be in the USAWKF (Anthony Goh and Shawn Liu) chose to override the selection process that they themselves established. The criteria are as follows, in order of importance:

1. US Team fighter who has placed in at least one of the previous 3 World Championships
2. Fighter that has been on US Team for 2 consecutive terms.
3. Former US Team Member
4. Former USAWKF National Champion (a title that James Fanshier held)
5. Former USASKF Title winner (made for Patrick Berry & Shawn Liu's own organization)
6. Former US Open Title winner

I know many of you who are reading this are thinking that I, Rudi Ott, am biased. Well yes I am, and I can’t help being biased. I gave up my position on the team so that James could have a real chance at making it. If I claimed my spot, it would be moot for James or Patrick. It is very sad that we have all come to this. I wish we had a united team that was ready to take on the world. But, politics and pride have tarnished another form of artistic expression and lowered the standards of these artists. It would help if we had an organization that was truly interested in the growth of our sport and supported our athletes. But we don’t, so we must rely on ourselves if we are ever going to make something great of SanShou. I know we all have our own agendas, and we all want our team to be the best. But together, the competition will make us greater as long as we are playing on the same field. Our common denominator is the love we share for the art under which we chose to compete, and that is greater than the hate any one person or organization can hold over us. Peace....

UsH! (Unity Starts Here)
Rudi Ott

[lkfmdc]

Shawn Liu’s USASKF National Tournament and USAWKF team trials
Reported by various participants at the event

Shawn Liu just barely managed to pull off his event. There was certainly nothing “national” about it. It was local, poorly organized, and poorly attended. The so-called “national” tournament competition had around 30 competitors, and NONE from the established programs. Compare that to the Arnold Classic which had over 150 competitors including representatives of all of the original “Big 6”.

In fact, if the event hadn't conspired with Anthony Goh to acquired the USA WKF team trials (despite opposition by ALL the US teams) it is doubtful anyone would have attended at all. The coaches had protested prior, resented Anthony Goh’s final decision, and the result was a total lack of support for all the other aspects of the event.

Considering the behavior of Shawn Liu in recent years, many also worried when they delayed announcing the official team. In the past, it had been done at the site. Apparently, fears were completely justified. The team selected by the USA WKF apparently includes someone who should NOT have been selected based upon the very criteria they themselves composed and put up on their web site! Is it a coincidence that the unqualified person is a student of Shawn Liu?

We really hope that no one who won this event considers themselves “national champions”. They are in for a very unfortunate reality check when they step onto a Lei Tai or into a ring with the real national champions.

Once again, the so-called “Professional fights” Shawn Liu offers left a lot to be desired. Putting amateurs with little experience in no gear so they look “professional” and offering up titles to them is exactly what is wrong with the sport of Kickboxing and San Shou. Faced with a total lack of participation from the traditional “Big 6” programs, this card featured two matches in which people who had never fought San Shou faced experienced champions from Brazil among other amusing things! Additionally, had the Brazilian team not shown up there would have only been TWO fights.

[lkfmdc]

Simply put, Shawn Liu is a complete and total FRAUD

He tried first to be a wushu coach
THen tried to teach Chen Tai Chi
Then he tried to be a SHaolin Monk

He found San Shou because at the time there weren't many coaches and he convinced Anthony Goh to let him control it

He has never trained a single champion, nor a student who has even been able to beat a "big 6" fighter. His record vs my guys is 0-9.... 5 KO's

I have also mentioned that when I was in China, everyone was talking about what a joke he was... anyone who has ever seen him at a world championship knows that no one in China takes him seriously, he is a CLOWN

[taai gihk yahn]

Then he tried to be a SHaolin Monk

well, as far as I am aware, those are layman's robes he's wearing here (http://www.shaolin-world.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=59), so that would seem to make the case for the above statement (unless there is another use for those, because it's what I wore during the Ch'an retreats I've attended here (http://www.baus.org/baus/index.html)...)

[scc703]

You seem to have a lot of animosity and negative energy that pours from you; not only in this post but in many of your postings in general. I just hope that through my career and lifetime that I never have to resort to saying such harsh things about anyone. It really brings bad karma and displays a shallow character. You seem to have only highlighted the things that you perceived as negative, missing the paragraph from Rudi that was positive about Master Liu. I am sure that you are an intelligent, talented, and well-rounded individual and I look forward to reading your postings that display positive energy, which enlightens others on the good of Sanshou and promotes this art regardless of who is running the show. Even the best of us our human regardless of our background and sometimes it is necessary to discover humility in order to realize what you are promoting in the first place. Everyone needs to do some self-reflection and rediscover what the goal with Sanshou is. Is the intention to display such a negative light so that no one is interested in the sport? Do we need to make it so political, personal, and just plain ugly that it unravels before us? How do we change this and where does it start? Sanshou is an amazing sport, has unbelievable competitors, and unlimited potential. However this potential seems to be smothered by a lot of negativity that is unnecessary. How will word get out about Sanshou and take hold in the US with this dark cloud? What will it take to unite like Rudi talks about? We have people that have a love and a desire for something that seems to be forgotten and overshadowed by egos. When ego gets in the way nothing good can move forward. I would like to see something positive from you, lkfmdc, you seem to know a lot so why not use your energy to promote and support rather than lash out.
I believe in Shawn Liu. I respect Shawn Liu. I respect you as well. I look forward to future postings that are for the good of Sanshou. People have the opportunity to form their own opinions however if their head is filled with negativity from the get go then they already have a hurdle to overcome before anything is experienced.

[lkfmdc]

You seem to have a lot of animosity and negative energy that pours from you;



I have animosity towards liars and people who try and treat people like idiots based solely upon the color of their skin

Shawn Liu thinks American's are fools and that he can pull "fast ones" over on them. Shawn learned the hard way that some of us actually speak Chinese, like when I told Xia Bahua that Shawn was mis-translating his speech.

In 2001 Shawn's people set up a Lei Tai that was only 10 feet wide. Shawn tried to tell us it was 24 (8 meters). I told him I'd be happy to go out and get a tape measure and show him what it really was. He quickly agreed :rolleyes:




Everyone needs to do some self-reflection and rediscover what the goal with Sanshou is. Is the intention to display such a negative light so that no one is interested in the sport?



If people lost interst in the sport it was because people like Shawn Liu tried to boss everyone around and acted like this is a dictoatorship like China

The coach of Baltimore San Shou signed a contract for his student to fight with knees. Shawn couldn't deliver the promised opponent and found some guy at the last minute who wouldn't fight with knees. Of course, he didn't bother to say before the match even "we aren't going to do knees". He waited until the match started and then tried to penalize the Baltimore fighter for his knees :rolleyes:

When the Baltimore coach RIGHTLY pointed out that the contract said knees, Shawn had securtiy kick him out of the building IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MATCH

Putting people who have never fought stand up against Brazilian national San Shou champions also did nothing to advance the sport. Nor setting up guys who were over 20 lbs differnt in weight.




Sanshou is an amazing sport, has unbelievable competitors, and unlimited potential. However this potential seems to be smothered by a lot of negativity that is unnecessary. How will word get out about Sanshou and take hold in the US with this dark cloud?



How can you advance US san shou when for years the "head coach" of the national team is a guy who has never fought in his life and has never successfully coached a single fighter?

How can you advance US san shou when the so called "head coach" of the national team is such a bad coach that during preps for the world championships he injures an athlete so badly by having him wrestle on a mat with holes that the fighter (a FOUR TIME national champion) never fights again? :rolleyes:

How do you advance San Shou when you convince the USA WKF NOT to hold events and try to monopolize the competition only to your event?

How about the fact you have to do this because you are so desperate because if you didn't get the "team trials" as part of a back room deal NO ONE WOULD COME TO YOUR BACKWOODS POORLY ORGANIZED CHARADE




I would like to see something positive from you, lkfmdc, you seem to know a lot so why not use your energy to promote and support rather than lash out.



I was the first person to do single, pre set matches for San Shou (1994)

I was the first person to put san shou in a ring (1996)

I was the first person to do pro san shou (1997)

I got the USKBA to sanction san shou

I've done 3 independent international level championships that were free of the blatant corruption that the IWUF events have

I've promoted more San Shou matches than Shawn has

Not to mention I've trained more fighters and champions than Shawn ever will





I believe in Shawn Liu. I respect Shawn Liu.



Then either you are wearing blinders or you are an idiot

[scc703]

I wish you the best.

[lkfmdc]

LMFAO

You come on here and try to talk big, but didn't realize apparently that I have all the keys to all the closets with all of Shawn Liu's skeletons

Should be bring up the LIES and disrespect towards Cung Le? I have former students of Shawn's in my school who told us about how Shawn claims he trained Cung starting at 15 :rolleyes:

Oh, yes, he taught Cung Le everything he knows, he set up challenge matches between Cung and boxers, he had Cung doing "secret Shaolin training"

Shawn is a habitual liar, he just can't help himself. But I guess since so many people buy his crap and accept it as truth, he feels at least he can fool some of the people some of the time and that's good enough for him

If you want to know why San Shou died in this country, the answer is pretty easy, Shawn Liu, his back room deals with the USA WKF and his alienation of all the "big 6" teams

That's an accomplishment, killing an entire sport on your own :rolleyes:

[scc703]

I would never talk with such venom as you. I don't care what you have in your closet, I never asked. I just want to support something that I believe in and your opinion doesn't effect that. So I do wish you the best and truly hope that you find some light in your heart. :)

[lkfmdc]

I would never talk with such venom as you.



yes, sheep just passively stand in the field, even when they are about to get wacked in the head :rolleyes:




I don't care what you have in your closet,



Dear lord, public education? :rolleyes: Shawn's closets as in "skeletons in the closet"... and, again, if you didn't start off acting so high and mighty I would have left this thread be. But since you wanted to go there, I am more than happy to put out the info on Shawn, you know, the TRUTH




I just want to support something that I believe in and your opinion doesn't effect that.


Just stick your fingers in your ears and say that over and over again and maybe some day it will be ok for you :rolleyes:

[GeneChing]

Of course, my position in the wulin gives me a lot of standing, and a lot of potential for revenge. I've never had to do a smear, nothing like we're seeing in the political arena this week (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51815), but I'm always tempted... oh so tempted ;)

But that being said, Shawn did well by me personally even before I took this position.

[lkfmdc]

Gene truly is a politician :rolleyes:

[GeneChing]

...no need to get insulting.

My name is Gene Ching, and I approved of this message.

You betcha. ;)

[lkfmdc]

I am glad you approved the message ;)

[scc703]

David Ross,
I am responding to your negative comments directed at Coach Shawn Liu. My name is Aaron Honeycutt I am a 5 time US National Champion 2 time International Champion, Silver Gloves Boxing Champion, and a Pennsylvania State Muay Thai Kickboxing Champion. I was on the 1995 US National San Shou Team that was coached by Shawn Liu. I won a Bronze Medal at the World Championships, along with myself, Cung Le and Alvin Baley also won Bronze Medals. I have had many different coaches, teachers, and instructors through the years, so when I tell you this believe me: Coach Shawn Liu is a very good coach. When I was a team member, the coach was selected by the team, to be the US team coach. No one was forced to be trained by him. From my experience the coach has always had the Teams best interest in mind. The work outs were very structured, and regimented. He even brought one of the best San shou teams over from China to train with us.

David to address your point that the Coach has never produced a single ranked San Shou Fighter. Shawn Liu has also coached Robert Pritchett US National and Pan American Heavy Weight San Shou Champion, Patrick Berry US National Champion and Silver Medalist at the World Championships, Juan Zarate, US open International Champion just to name a few

Shawn Liu has done more for San shou in America than almost any one. He has earnestly tried to do what he thought was best for San Shou in America. We all have faults and make mistakes, but give credit where credit is due.

I think you are angry and keep bad mouthing the coach because you got knocked out cold by James Cooper, at a USWKF event, which was run by Shawn Liu. Marvin Perry drew you first, but refused to fight you because in his words ``he would take your head off with a round house kick``. Because of this, I can see how you would feel that fights were mismatched, because of your own bad experience.

You make racial ignorant statement about the coach , saying he thinks all white people are stupid ,these are very shallow prejudicial statements, that are totally unfounded and have no merit.

As far as the motto that you stated about Shawn Liu , I thank that it is you that should be ashamed. You are disrespectful, You need to stop running your negative campaign against the coach. It appears you have not learned the lessons that I am sure your teacher has taught you about, integrity, to be humble, and show respect. Theses traits are deeply ingrained in the Martial Arts, I am sorry you missed those lessons.

In closing, why people keep coming back to Shawn Liu`s events, One: because who Shawn Liu is, and Two; because of what he stands for. If don’t believe me ask some of the supporters of the tournament, Cung Le, Jason Yee, Scot Sheeley, myself, NDaba, Robert Pritchart, Rudi Ott, Mike Altman, James Cooper, Gary Utterback, and Mike Barry, and as you can see, many of them were National Champions and previous US Team members.

[lkfmdc]

First of all, if you want to be taken seriusly, let's start with facts



you got knocked out cold by James Cooper, at a USWKF event


NOPE, sorry, not correct, but thanks for playing......

I fought in an event, but it was NOT a USAWKF event, I didn't fight James Cooper and you weren't there. Should I also mention that Marvin Perry and James Cooper aren't even in the same weight class?

Oh, I could go on.... But I think the above shoots all your supposed credibility down the crapper.

HINT, If you want to attack me, first check your facts :rolleyes:

YES, you were active up until 1995. Yes, you fought in Baltimore in 1995. Then you fought and lost to Rudi Ott on the PPV in 1997. I am not aware of you being actively involved in San Shou since 1997 which would explain why you don't have any clue to the facts :rolleyes:

If you had been active in the USA WKF after 1997 you'd have known that I trained over 19 national San Shou champions, and three world champions including a person who won a world title by beating James Cooper at Shawn Liu's event in Atlanta.

YUP, that's right, in 2001 we went to Shawn's event, fought his boy, with Shawn as center referee, Shawn desperately trying to favor his guy, and we still won the world title.

Then Shawn tried not to pay us :rolleyes:

So, why would I be upset about one match I supposedly had at a USA WKF event when between 1997 and 2003 I was active in the organization, having many champions and top rated fighters?

Could it be perhaps that I got angy because between 1997 and 2003 I watched not only my guys but EVERYONE get screwed over by Shawn?

Shawn has never had a guy who beat a "Big 6" fighter. As for Patrick Berry making it onto the national team, RE-READ Rudi Ott's thoughts on that, ie that Patrick didn't belong on the team and it was only Shawn's manipulation.

You mention Juan, my kid beat him at the US Open the year we went, oh well for you :rolleyes:

Why do I say he thinks white people are stupid? Well, for one, he MISTRANSLATED what Xia Bahua said and didn't think anyone would notice. I did, and told Professor Xia what happened. Anthony Goh made Shawn apologize in writing to all of us

He claims to be an undefeated San Shou champion in China, yet the former national coach of the Chinese team, who was at the time coach in Shanghai says that Shawn HAS NEVER FOUGHT

Finally, if you were active in US San Shou since 1997 you couldn't possibly with a straight face say that the "big 6" have been supporting Shawn. Not since 2001. In case your math is bad, that is SEVEN YEARS.

This year, Cung tells me he is going back. he can't fight San Shou in CA right now. He needs to keep his guys busy. But that doesn't change teh fact that between 2002 and now NO ONE SUPPORTED SHAWN and it's precisely because of his nonsense and crap

[lkfmdc]

I can see how you would feel that fights were mismatched, because of your own bad experience.



Maybe my feeling that Shawn Liu mismatches people has to do with him trying to get 187 lb Yousef Taghizadeh to fight super heavyweight Patrick Barry, or asking several 154 lbers to fight 176 lbers, or all the other "K Super Star" mismatches he made?

Remember these?
Andre Assis (Brazil)
vs.
Jason Miller (USA)

The first fight of the night began with a throw at 8 seconds that BROKE the ring. The audience jeered as the matches had to be moved to the Lei Tai platform after a huge delay. The Brazilian, with vast San Shou experience, secured an easy decision win.

Ruslan Adryuschenko (European Champion)
Vs.
Unidentified local fighter (?)

These fights were all supposed to be under professional rules with knees and no equipment, yet the unidentified fighter insisted on no knees and began the match with shin guards on. Why would a supposedly professional fighter not want knees and be fighting in shin guards? We don’t know. More importantly, we also don’t understand why Shawn Liu then found it necessary to stop the match in the middle of the first round and insist that Ruslan wear shin guards as well. But wait, it only gets better folks

Ruslan’s corner complained. They noted, CORRECTLY that wearing shin guards was not in the contract. How did Shawn Liu, supposedly the president of the federation and the coach of the US team, respond? Shawn Liu had security remove the corner man from the building. Yeah, real professional. It didn’t matter, Ruslan won by 1st round KO.

Eduardo Fujihara (Brazil)
Vs
Unidentified local fighter (?)

For those who don’t know, Eduardo Fujihara is one of the most dangerous San Shou fighters on the planet. He has won world championships both in San Shou and Lei Tai (which features bare knuckles, elbows and knees). Have we mentioned that he is also undefeated in Vale Tudo in Brazil? So we can’t help but ask why he as matched up with a man who admitted that it was his first stand up fight? NO surprise here, Fujihara by 2nd rd TKO

[scc703]

In response to the negative remarks made against Shawn Liu by David Ross I would like to say that I have never heard a positive word come out of David’s month unless he was talking about himself.

It is true that Shawn Liu is excitable and it’s true that he sometimes acts in ways that are less then appropriate for a person of his position, and it’s true that he has made some bad decisions, but who hasn’t.

I too have had arguments with Shawn Liu and he and I have severely disagreed with each other on several occasions but I like to think that he at least respects me because I would disagree with him to his face and I am invited back time and again to his events.

Shawn Liu has never given me a reason to believe he is not who he says he is and he has never given me a reason to believe that he has not done the things that he says he has done. David Ross is the only person that I have ever heard say such things about Shawn Liu.

In regards to Shawn Liu’s association with Anthony Goh I can say first hand that Goh was in the position he was in with the USAWKF because no election was ever held in that organization until about 2 years ago. Because no election was held (until recently), no officers were ever elected (until recently if then). They were more of a voluntary basis if you will.

That being the case, Shawn Liu had an opportunity to be the chair person of San Shou based on two things:
1. The fighters on the team chose him and
2. He was more then willing, able and capable of fulfilling the duties of the position. This is evidenced by the fact that the best fighters in the country choose him as there coach. If the best fighters in the country choose him that says something about his abilities and knowledge.

Furthermore, since the IWUF would only recognize Goh as the provider of the U.S. team for the world event (regardless of the coach whether it be Shawn Liu or some one else), it would be Goh that the team coach would have to align with in order to be a team coach.

This being the case, if the team wanted Shawn Liu as a coach, Cung Le as the coach or Joe Blow off the street as the coach, that person would appear to be in collusion with Anthony Goh based on David Ross’s presumed argument.

Does this mean that if David Ross was the team coach that he and Anthony Goh would be in collusion? Maybe, why? Because David Ross wants to be the coach so badly that he can taste and it appears that he would do anything to get that position which has eluded him at every turn. Or would it be better to say that jealously has reared its ugly head in the form of David Ross.

I can’t seem to think of anything that could have left such a nasty taste in Ross’s mouth that would cause him say such things about Shawn Liu unless of course James Cooper’s foot left it there when it knocked him out.

So David I really don’t care how many languages you can speak read or write you are an ungrateful, obnoxious, self centered, arrogant, poor example of a human being to say such things about Shawn Liu on a forum like this. It’s no wonder you were asked to leave an event. If you are such a diplomat and if you have so many problems with Shawn Liu why don’t you sit down with him and work it out instead of crying the blues to every one but the person you are attacking.

[lkfmdc]

LMFAO @ at the Shawn Liu nut hugger club....

You may notice taht everyone that supports Shawn either wasn't active in the sport much past 1997, never had a team and/or was never involved in training fighters.

The claim that the "fighters chose the coach" is so funny I die laughing reading it. Let's see, since 1997 members of that team have included Cung Le, Rudi Ott, Albert Pope, Mike Norman, Chinu Le, Max Chen and Elan Schwarcz. None of them wanted Shawn Liu as coach.

Without exception the members of the national team have wanted either Cung or Jason to run the team.

I must note that in all these defenses of Shawn Liu they manage to never address key points

KEY POINT #1: Shawn Liu forced people to go to Alabama to train with him (or they would be removed from the national team). THIS IS A FACT.

While in Shawn's school, he had them wrestle on a mat with holes in it. Elan Schwarcz was severly injured, his knee torn, and he not only didn't get to fight in the worlds, he never fought again

KEY POINT #2: Shawn Liu has shown total disregard for people fighting in his shows. He has had amateurs fight multiple fights with no gear. He has had people with huge weight differences fight eachother. He has taken people who have never fought before and put them against seasoned, very experienced San Shou champions

KEY PONT #3: Shawn Liu promoted himself to being in charge of an organization that he created for himself. There was never a vote and it was in total contradiction to what he told EVERY COACH when they attended his event in 2001.

KEY POINT #4:
http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/kingofsanda/shanghaicollege.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/kingofsanda/zhao.jpg

Go find out what that is, who that is, then learn enough Chinese to contact him and ask him about Shawn Liu.

"I really don’t care how many languages you can speak"
LMFAO, if you spoke Chinese you'd know what peope really say about Shawn Liu. You'd learn that most of his stories are complete fabrications.

Of course, you didn't have to speak a word of Chinese to see what Guolin did. IE he punched Shawn in the nose! Why do you think Guolin punched Shawn? Ever bothered to look into that?

Michael Li, who is Xia Bahua's student, who was invited by Jeff Bolt to referee the daytime event in Orlando in 1997 happens to speak perfect English, so you could also ask him about Shawn Liu. After Shawn tried to explain the rules in 1997 in the morning during the tournament, Michael came onto the lei tai and said "no, that is not correct". He then told all teh competitors there to IGNORE Shawn

Why did Shawn Liu have to apologize to everyone that attended Xia BaHua's seminar?

Why hasn't any of the Big 6 teams attened any of Shawn's events in the past few years?

Gary, when you stop licking Shawn boots you could address any one of these issues.... but I won't hold my breath....

[lkfmdc]

It's amazing that anyone can believe the tall tales that Shawn tells

From his own web site at http://www.usaskf.org/oldsite/index2.html



As a Martial Artist and Fighter, Master Liu, with a 30-years undefeated career, has fought numerous professional fights in Chinese traditional bare-hand fighting, Muay Thai Boxing and modern Sanshou. He is one of the few undefeated professionals out of China


The stories just get bigger every year. 30 years? Undefeated? Numerous professional fights?

Can Shawn produce a single picture or video of a single match in China? How about an article?

You'd think in 30 years, undefeated, PROFESSIONAL fights, he'd have something from one of those many fights :rolleyes:

Really Gene, he's shameless.... why do you let him continue his fraud?

[lkfmdc]

Aaron and Gary want people to believe that Shawn Liu is the respected leader of US San Shou.... well, all you have to do is look at Shawn's own web page.

Nov 07
http://shaolin-world.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=70:november-3rd-2007-results&catid=65:past-event-results&Itemid=83

August 07
http://shaolin-world.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=71:august-25-2007-us-open-results&catid=65:past-event-results&Itemid=83

May 07
http://shaolin-world.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=72:may-5-2007-kickboxing-qsmokerq-results&catid=65:past-event-results&Itemid=83

That is from Shawn's own site. Do those look like well attended, national level events? Where are the "big 6" team participation? If the fighters all love and respect Shawn, why haven't they attened any of his events?

Just more quesitons that Shawn's people will not address

[GreenCloudCLF]

Without exception the members of the national team have wanted either Cung or Jason to run the team.


I would love to coach, but I have a full-time job and don't think I am available.

Thanks for the offer.

[lkfmdc]

Look what someone just sent me! (and I thought X-Mas was more than a month away!)

http://www.chinwoo.com/2007tcl/workshops.htm



• Sanshou Ground Fighting - FRI, July 20: 5:30pm - 6:50pm
Sifu Gary Utterback assisted by Sifu Mike Barry. This seminar provides mat work on techniques that take Sanshou to the next level. It will include submissive Chin Na techniques for use with both boxing and eagle claw style gloves and defensive twist-pinching techniques for use with the finger free gloves. The techniques presented will enhance any full-contact program but will be applied to distinguish skill level only in Sanshou competition (not applied for tap-outs) events where they are allowed. It is invisioned that properly applied could result in an 8-count against an opponent. Some of the techniques were introduced and allowed for Sanshou competitors at the 2006 Tai Chi Legacy in wich boxing gloves were in use.


The nuts don't fall far from the tree apparently!
Where did Gary learn this "Sanshou Ground Fighting"?
"Submissive" fighting?

Has he ever tested it against judo, sambo, wrestling or BJJ? I guess not since he only "invisioned" (?) that they "could" work :rolleyes:

Fortunately for society in general he only showed the ones that result in 8 counts and he didnt' show the really deadly ones that result in 10 counts!

LOL!

[GeneChing]

He helps pay the rent, which is more than I can say for you. :p

[lkfmdc]

He helps pay the rent, which is more than I can say for you. :p

Ah, so he buys some advertising, it always comes down to someting like that doesn't it?

But, come on, you've been to China, you speak, you know the story.....

[GeneChing]

We all have skeletons in our closets. He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone. Like I said, Shawn's always done alright by me and I've known him for years, even prior to my position here. My connection to Shawn has always been from a Shaolin perspective, not a sanshou one. There a closets full of Shaolin skeletons and sanshou skeletons. This is Halloween today after all.

[lkfmdc]

He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone.



Jesus walks into a small village and finds that they are about to stone a woman to death for allegations of adultery

Aghast, Jesus says "He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone"

As soon as Jesus says this, a tiny little womam picks up a HUGE STONE, runs toward the other woman, drops it on her, crushing her

To this Jesus said "sometimes Mom, you really annoy me"

Be well Gene

[GreenCloudCLF]

Jesus walks into a small village and finds that they are about to stone a woman to death for allegations of adultery

Aghast, Jesus says "He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone"

As soon as Jesus says this, a tiny little womam picks up a HUGE STONE, runs toward the other woman, drops it on her, crushing her

To this Jesus said "sometimes Mom, you really annoy me"

Be well Gene

Mary was born (at least in Catholic Dogma) without original sin (Immaculate Conception). That in no way is to mean she never sinned. In fact, her life was a lie. She led people to believe that Jesus was fathered by Joseph, so in fact every day after she became pregnant, she lied. She may have been one of the most prolific sinners in the Bible.

[taai gihk yahn]

Dave, here's a question: what authority legitimizes Liu as the go-to guy for running San Shou to the exclusion of others, or whatever organization he runs as the official body in charge of it?

and if Liu is such a poor coach and has alienated so many fighters, and if his tournaments are so poorly run and attended, what's to stop the "big 6" from forming their own equivalent of a San Shou NGB? I mean, it's not like it's an Olympic sport with a USOC / IOC recognized federation, is it? if all the top people (gyms / coaches / fighters) are not in Liu's camp, wouldn't any organization run by them easily eclipse his?

[ngokfei]

SCC703 only has 6 posts. :confused:
Guess this forum is of no use to him unless to serve as a promotional stage. :rolleyes:

[brothernumber9]

Any U.S. representative team that wants to compete at the world wushu championships under the Iwuf (I think?), according to them has to be recognized by the official branch in the U.S. which is the USA WKF. So although the big san shou/san da teams in the country could collaborate and put together what would be a true representation of our best fighters. If it is no recognized by USAWKF, then they cannot represent U.S. at worlds.

[ngokfei]

Yep that is the case and problem. If you don't agree with the WKF you don't get a fair shake.

But then again its better this way. Professional Events that the "Big 6" attend have much better fighters than you'd ever face in these politcally charged IWUF events anyhow.

China itself has many Sanshou/Sanda events that have nothing to do with the IWUF.

[Mika]

Whoa! :D I had almost forgotten how hostile this environment can be at times. But, it brings voyeurs...

I haven't been here for ages, glad to be back! To get my rant on... :p

Anywho. I do remember Ross, and he's always been like that. I also remember that he is not at least known as a liar.

I lived in Mobile, AL, for five years. At the time, I taught Choy Lee Fut Kung Fu (have since taken up Qi Xing Tang Lang instead) at the University of South Alabama while studying there. I did not teach for the university, but our group got a space at HPELS to do our thing (just wanted to make that clear). So, I quickly got to know fellow martial artists and soon thereafter the big MA names in Mobile.

The first time I saw Shawn Liu teach I knew right off the bat he was nothing he said he was. Just dreadful. Nor was he teaching kung fu, it was some modern-based stuff. Modern wushu with some more realistic moves. But it was no authentic kung fu. I know that even better now having been introduced to authentic kungfu (a rare treat, as you all know, admit to it or not).

The second time I went to his gym (different place at this time, btw, they had moved) invited by this guy who I always liked and at the same time felt sorry for, Shawn introduced himself to me. The first thing he said was "I am a Shaolin monk", and I started smiling. He knew. He was embarrassed and quickly sat back down not being able to look at me again. However, I didn't make him lose face in front of everyone. It was between him and me.

Every time after that when we saw each other at Wal-Mart or where ever, he did not want to make a whole lot of eye contact with me.

Well, over the years I got to know some of the older Chinese people in Mobile, and they knew about Shawn's charade. Some of them were angry with him for telling tall tales, some just didn't care. But there were a lot white people too, who knew about his true nature.

The word was that he was a masseur and a gymnast in China. Ross's version of him being a former wushu practitioner would make sense in this context. Gymnastics and wushu have a lot in common, as we all know.

Be it how may, people like Shawn Liu should be exposed, or - in the case they are wrongfully accused - their case should be openly discussed. Hiding behind the lines and playing "I am friends with everyone" is just plain ignorant. Sure, Ross could surely pick his words more carefully, but in the end, it's better to speak out than leave it unsaid. I say Gene's method is just downright scary - provided he actually knows something. That kind of political correctness is just so viciously overplayed that it scares me. Then again, I could be mistaken about everything (along with Ross and some many others).

The world of MA is full of gullible fools. They should be protected. That's why political correctness is dangerous.

Of all the 1000's of people I have met, there are only about three or four I don't respect. They have all lied to other people in a massive way or have otherwise harmed or used other people.

Ross, you should note, however, that your aggressive style brings the focus from the actual matter to yourself and the way you represent yourself. Many of the posts in this thread - did not read them all, nor will I - testify to that. That is a little selfish on your part. I do understand how hard it can be to say your piece in a friendlier way, but with something of this magnitude, it would be worth it.

Like Ross, I hate liars and cheaters in MA. Honesty is a base value.

My 2 cents...

[GeneChing]

If it's any consolation to all of Liu's detractors here, he lost his shirt on this. No audience and no competitors. I'd guess that he lost at least $10K out of pocket, and that's being conservative. I understand what he is trying to do with this and will give a full report in our March April issue, which will be on newsstands in February.

I had a great time. The fights were very enjoyable and I really enjoyed hanging out with everyone. Many of us pulled an allnighter on Saturday, and all I can say about that is sanshou people are hardcore party people (remember I've toured with rock bands, so that's no idle comment). But what happens in ATL allnighters, stays in ATL allnighters. Among the sanshou luminaries and kung fu people attending were Mike Altman, Mike Barry, Patrick Barry, Dennis Brown, Max Chen, Thomas Diagne, Van Do, Jane Estioko, Aaron Honeycutt, Raymond Hubbard, Wael Karika, Cung Le, Elaina Maxwell, NDaba, Rudi Ott, Nick Scrima, Scott Sheeley, Gary Utterback, Jason Yee and more. I'm sure I'm missing a few. Again, you'll have to check out my report in February.

This thread did come up in conversation a few times. I was surprised how many of sanshou people lurked here. It was met with some ridicule and amusement. :rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

he lost his shirt on this. No audience and no competitors.



why how is that possible Gene? He's the greatest thing since sliced bread and the entire US San Shou community is right behind the great leader! :rolleyes:




I understand what he is trying to do with this and will give a full report in our March April issue, which will be on newsstands in February.



It's a shame that when the USKBA did their two world championships, with 55 to 65 San Shou competitors and teams from places like Russia, Egypt, Brazil and Lebanon that we didn't merit any coverage at all in your magazine :rolleyes:




This thread did come up in conversation a few times. I was surprised how many of sanshou people lurked here. It was met with some ridicule and amusement. :rolleyes:



People are amused in the strangest of ways......

[GeneChing]

You didn't invite us. Therein lies the shame. You think we'd cover something we weren't invited to?

[lkfmdc]

(edit)

Gene, read your PM's

[GeneChing]

...then you'd know that there is something more. In general, the official attendance of our staff to all martial arts events come under our advertising department because it's a form of promotion. The next step in order for us to send someone would be you'd have to meet our basic requirements. I would have responded immediately to your inquiry with those requirements. It's possible that there was a breakdown in communication, but I have no record of the invitation. When was this exactly? With the date, I can do a more thorough search.

[lkfmdc]

you've got mail (and that is where I am gonna leave this for now)

[Three Harmonies]

In regards to this:
Sanshou Ground Fighting - FRI, July 20: 5:30pm - 6:50pm
Sifu Gary Utterback assisted by Sifu Mike Barry. This seminar provides mat work on techniques that take Sanshou to the next level. It will include submissive Chin Na techniques for use with both boxing and eagle claw style gloves and defensive twist-pinching techniques for use with the finger free gloves. The techniques presented will enhance any full-contact program but will be applied to distinguish skill level only in Sanshou competition (not applied for tap-outs) events where they are allowed. It is invisioned that properly applied could result in an 8-count against an opponent. Some of the techniques were introduced and allowed for Sanshou competitors at the 2006 Tai Chi Legacy in wich boxing gloves were in use.



This type of creationism is laudible, and frankly embarrassing for those of us that hold the CMA true to our hearts. There has never been ANY organized curriculum for ground combat in CMA. Period. Why are people trying to re-create the wheel? Just for money.
I have also heard recently that Ying Jow Pai has "created" a ground form to answer the nagging need to answer their students queries as to why their is nothing to address the lack of ground combat in CMA. I group these things all together.
Look, if you all want to learn ground fighting, go to a ground fighter. It is that simple. Their is no need to feel less than because CMA do not address ground combat. It is what it is. Go learn BJJ, Sambo, or MMA to supplement your stand up. "Re-creating" the wheel is going to bring nothing to CMA community, you, or your training. In the end you will waste a lot of time getting mediocre at techniques that will not work effectively on your opponent. Just go and learn from someone who knows.

Anyways.... back to the wonderful discussion of Liu!

[ngokfei]

When you say "Ying Jow Pai" I can only assume you are referring to Shum Leung's school in NYC since they are the only one that uses this "title/signage".

If so then I'll comment. We've had a Ground Form called Day Tong Kuen since the school opened up back in 1974. But yes we are the only Eagle Claw School that has this set, most only do the Jui Lau/Lok Tong (drunken set).

While there are some basic Ground Fighting techniques in the set I would say its far from a Ground Fighting set. I've seen some modern sets in other styles that kind of look like break dancing.

The Eagle Claw System is made up of primarily 3 styles (Liu He Quan, Bashanfan/bafanshou/fanzi and Yue Shi San Shou.)

The core of the styles Qin Na and Grappling skills are found in the Yue Shi San Shou which is more popularly known as the 108 Locking Skills.

So there is nothing missing in our training. We are lucky to have a system that covers all the ranges of combat to some extent.

Hope this helps to clarify the mis-information provided by "Three Harmonies".

Its a shame he has to cut and paste skills from so many styles in order to be a complete Martial Artist. Such a journey is endless.

[lkfmdc]

At the risk of sounding controversial (you all know me) :p

I have had the pleasure of knowing Sifu Shum Leung and his Ying Jow Pai. He was a very good friend of CTS. Of course, I also have a soft spot for sifu Shum since he was always good to me. But let us not forget that the 108 locks have been part of Ying Jow Pai for GENERATIONS and Sifu Shum was showing grappling long before we had the "MMA craze"

Sifu Shum is NOTHING like Utterback. I'll leave it at that

[Three Harmonies]

You think you are cute Eric.

Ross-
Was not trying to compare the two individuals.

Jake

[ngokfei]

Yes I am.

and no.

You should try and proof read before you hit the post button:rolleyes:

[Three Harmonies]

Can you proof read in between the lines?

[ngokfei]

try Public Speaking 101.

[nolte13]

...the event wasn't nearly as mindblowing as I'm sure they were hoping, but I really enjoyed myself there. I didn't get to watch the competitions, but the fights were really enjoyable.

Really the best thing I took away from the experience was all the wonderful people I got to meet. I didn't get to talk to them as much as I really wanted to (Cung Le, Jason Yee etc etc.), but my limited time with them was extremely pleasant. They were all really down to earth and nice people, not at all the punching kicking screaming machines I imagined them as (poor misconception I know).

Hands down though, meeting Gene Ching was probably the highlight of my weekend (except for Helen the ring girl. Ooooh Helen was a hottie). I'm pretty sure I creeped him out by yelling out "Gene Ching!" everytime I saw him, but I'm okay with that. And it must not have been too akward for Mr. Ching, because we did have a few rather delightful conversations throughout the weekend. I always figured he would be a polite and pleasant man to talk to, but he blew me away with how easy going he was. It really was a treat to meet Mr. Ching. (I mean Gene!)

So personally, it was a wildly successful weekend, being able to meet people whom I've admired for so long. The turnout was pretty dismal, but alot of entertaining and interesting things happened. Gene Ching!

[lkfmdc]

Gene Ching has groupies! :p

[nolte13]

His first words to me were: "Oh no - another stalker...."

And he just might be right. But I still maintain he followed ME onto the elevator. What happened there might be another post for another day.....

[GeneChing]

...it was very flattering to meet you, although like I said, it would have been much nicer if you were one of those ring girls. Alas, I'm in the wrong field to attract that kind of groupie. :(

Cung, Jason and I watched the sunrise on Sunday after partying all night. Max Chen, Elaina Maxwell and Ting (a fighter with Max - first time I met him and I didn't get his last name) also made to the morning light too, but they had to jet out to get Elaina to the airport super early, an impressive feat given the all night libations enjoyed by that trio. I had met Jason before, but that was the first time I spent a lot of time with him. He's got a new indie film coming and showed Cung and me some rushes. It's sort of a film noir - The Girl from the Naked Eye. Jason shared the final fight, which was two long continuous sequences, unbroken by any cuts, ala Old Boy (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41961)although sans the dotted-line for the hammer trajectory (if you've seen Old Boy, you know what I mean). It was an impressive fight scene.

Saturday night was a lot of fun.

[lkfmdc]

Jason has worked really hard to get where he is and deserves all the success in the world

[taai gihk yahn]

Shawn introduced himself to me. The first thing he said was "I am a Shaolin monk", and I started smiling. He knew. He was embarrassed and quickly sat back down not being able to look at me again. However, I didn't make him lose face in front of everyone. It was between him and me.
when he posts pic of himself at Shaolin wearing layman's robes and claims he's a monk, it goes way beyond you and him...


This type of creationism is laudible, and frankly embarrassing for those of us that hold the CMA true to our hearts.
do you mean "laughable"?

[scc703]

I too enjoyed meeting Gene Ching. I had a few brief conversations with you which I really enjoyed. Not to mention the fact that you are very easy on the eyes. :) I wish I could of talked longer but I was super busy all weekend. Also wish I could of made it to the after party however work had to be completed first. I think that if you look past the turn out of the event and look at what was accomplished it was a very successful weekend. I learned a lot about myself and what I can accomplish of which I am very proud. There was a lot of individual growth that happened according to the stories that I have been hearing. That's what it is all about. Spreading the word, getting people involved, and helping people overcome their weaknesses and achieve their personal goals. I am very proud of this past weekend, proud and appreciative of the people I met, and proud to be involved with Master Liu. Everyone has their own perspective however there are many different stories depending on who's telling it. I look forward to next time Gene, maybe then I will have time to hit the after parties as well.

[GeneChing]

Flattery will get you everywhere (that and a jug of nacho sauce (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37625)).

As for that afterparty, all I'll say officially is that sanshou fighters party full-contact and it's in your best interest to tap early. ;)