Kenpo-More Chinese than Japanese?

[densho]

Which does Kenpo favor more the Chinese or Japanese martial arts? For years I've been giving that question some thought. Without a background in Kung-fu or Karate it's not easy for me to find the answer. There are many techniques in Kenpo that have more Chinese roots. Also we have forms that have Preyinng Mantis and Hung-gar influence. Yet the structure appears different and there is some definite influence form Jujutsu. We have always been told Kenpo is a blend of Kung-fu with a helping of Karate and some Jujutsu?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Which Kenpo?

And the answer is, typically, YES.

[TenTigers]

sanjuro is correct.
It depends on which Kenpo style you are referring to.
There is Okinawan Ryukyu Kenpo, which has no resemblance to Chinese arts, and there is Shorinji Kempo, which although the founder, Doshin-So claims he created it after seeing the frescos on the Shaolin Temple walls, it still looks like Karate and Jiu-Jutsu.
There is Ed Parker's and Tracy's Kenpo, which came from Chow Kwai-Sun, and has had inputs from other Chinese teachers,and Hawaiian arts, and appears much more Gung-Fu like in its approach and movement.
I met a Hung-Ga practitioner whos lineage was not through Hong Kong, and his Hung-Ga looked very Kenpo-like as far as its movement, speed, and rapid-fire techniques.
Kajukenbo can look Chinese influenced as well, especially its offshoots such as Al Dacascos' Won Hop Kuen Do.
Nick Cerio's Kenpo came frome George Pesare,(it is said by some that he only aligned with Chow when Chow was elderly, so there was no real inpput other than lineage) and does not look Chinese influenced at all.
Fred Villari, learned under Cerio, and in an attempt to jump on the Shaolin bandwagon, "stylized" the forms and techniques to appear to the uneducated, to be Gung-Fu. Pinan Kata with Tiger Claws does not make it Gung-Fu.And forms with names like,"Ancient Chinese Kata Number One,Two ,etc" somehow seems to lack authenticity in my book.
Many offshoots from Villari have donned the "Shaolin" Moniker in an attempt to legitimze themselves.
There are Shaolin Kempo schools that have added instruction forom everyone from Tak Wah Eng to Shi Yan Ming, and the Shaolin Temple.
Those that know the real deal, know the real story. It's common knowledge in the Chinese Martial Arts Community.
If you are looking for a Kenpo school that is closer to Kung-Fu, then your best bet is Ed Parker,Tracy, and any of Parker's original students-Frank Trejo, Larry Tatum, etc.

[sanjuro_ronin]

sanjuro is correct.
It depends on which Kenpo style you are referring to.
There is Okinawan Ryukyu Kenpo, which has no resemblance to Chinese arts, and there is Shorinji Kempo, which although the founder, Doshin-So claims he created it after seeing the frescos on the Shaolin Temple walls, it still looks like Karate and Jiu-Jutsu.
There is Ed Parker's and Tracy's Kenpo, which came from Chow Kwai-Sun, and has had inputs from other Chinese teachers,and Hawaiian arts, and appears much more Gung-Fu like in its approach and movement.
I met a Hung-Ga practitioner whos lineage was not through Hong Kong, and his Hung-Ga looked very Kenpo-like as far as its movement, speed, and rapid-fire techniques.
Kajukenbo can look Chinese influenced as well, especially its offshoots such as Al Dacascos' Won Hop Kuen Do.
Nick Cerio's Kenpo came frome George Pesare,(it is said by some that he only aligned with Chow when Chow was elderly, so there was no real inpput other than lineage) and does not look Chinese influenced at all.
Fred Villari, learned under Cerio, and in an attempt to jump on the Shaolin bandwagon, "stylized" the forms and techniques to appear to the uneducated, to be Gung-Fu. Pinan Kata with Tiger Claws does not make it Gung-Fu.And forms with names like,"Ancient Chinese Kata Number One,Two ,etc" somehow seems to lack authenticity in my book.
Many offshoots from Villari have donned the "Shaolin" Moniker in an attempt to legitimze themselves.
There are Shaolin Kempo schools that have added instruction forom everyone from Tak Wah Eng to Shi Yan Ming, and the Shaolin Temple.
Those that know the real deal, know the real story. It's common knowledge in the Chinese Martial Arts Community.
If you are looking for a Kenpo school that is closer to Kung-Fu, then your best bet is Ed Parker,Tracy, and any of Parker's original students-Frank Trejo, Larry Tatum, etc.

Pretty much, though I read in an interview where Chow himself said that Nick Cerio is the man to go to about Kenpo.
There are a few "shaoling kempo" schools around that have nothing to do with Villari.
Typically, outside of SHorinji Kempo, Kenpo is noted for rapid fiire hand techniques that are a combiantion of closed and open hands, low line kicks from all angles, trips, throws and finishers, finger strikes and assorted meat by-products thrown in for flavour :D

[TenTigers]

I had a longe discussion wit Cerio, and he said that Villari hasn't changed any of the katas or techniques that he'd taught him.(This was when Cerio wanted me to join his organization) That was all I needed to hear. I declined.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I had a longe discussion wit Cerio, and he said that Villari hasn't changed any of the katas or techniques that he'd taught him.(This was when Cerio wanted me to join his organization) That was all I needed to hear. I declined.

EWWW........

Outside of Kajukenbo, I don't hold any kenpo that high up.
Never seen one of them actually fight like they train, I mean not even close.

[TenTigers]

Steve Sanders, founder of BKF Black Karate Federation was known for fighting using Kenpo technique, also for having the fastest hands around. This was in the 70's.

[Kansuke]

I messed around with Japanese Kempo for a year or so in Japan waaay back when. It was fun.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Steve Sanders, founder of BKF Black Karate Federation was known for fighting using Kenpo technique, also for having the fastest hands around. This was in the 70's.

Yep, saw him fight in a few old clips that had been circulating around awhile back, I think he also did some work in some of Jim Kelly's movies.
In the fighting I saw he rarely did more than 3 move combos, of course that was point competition so...
Again, even if you use youtube, you won't see "kenpo" being fought as it is been trained, wouldn't you agree?

[bakxierboxer]

Pretty much, though I read in an interview where Chow himself said that Nick Cerio is the man to go to about Kenpo.

Kind of requires a séance if you want it from "the man hisself"....
He's been among the non-living for "a while".... doesn't seem as long as the Wiki article indicates, but "time flies".

[bakxierboxer]

Steve Sanders, founder of BKF Black Karate Federation was known for fighting using Kenpo technique, also for having the fastest hands around. This was in the 70's.

Kajukenbo - Carlos Bunda won the first Parker Internationals and was featured on the cover of Parker's mag fighting Sanders and moving through a cross-over stance with his bridge-hand extended.
Think I've still got that mag in storage.......

[sanjuro_ronin]

Kind of requires a séance if you want it from "the man hisself"....
He's been among the non-living for "a while".... doesn't seem as long as the Wiki article indicates, but "time flies".

Bah, death won't stop a truly dedicated person.
:D

[TenTigers]

I had a training bro from Hawaii, who did Parker's Kenpo, and knew Chow. He said that in Chow's later years, he had suffered from either dementia or alzhiemer's and most people were seeking him out to pose for pictures and claim lineage. After Chow's death, many people came out of the woodwork.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I had a training bro from Hawaii, who did Parker's Kenpo, and knew Chow. He said that in Chow's later years, he had suffered from either dementia or alzhiemer's and most people were seeking him out to pose for pictures and claim lineage. After Chow's death, many people came out of the woodwork.

Ah yes, well, that makes sense.
The famous " I trained in private and got the real *insert MA here* from GM *insert famous MA here* "

[jimmi555]

Fred Villari, learned under Cerio, and in an attempt to jump on the Shaolin bandwagon, "stylized" the forms and techniques to appear to the uneducated, to be Gung-Fu.

Ok this is enuph of this uneducated guess work, first lets get one thing straight
Fred Villari did study with Nick Cerio, but Nick Cerio was just one of his instructors
Fred Vilari was already a black belt when he went to NICK CIRIOS SCHOOL, and he at that time had to fight 18 of Nick Cirios black belts, Fred Villari beat them all and Cirio took him in as a sdtudent, Fred Villari then went to the phillipines whyle he was in the armed forcess and he met his wife hous family were all masteres of shaolin kempo, Fred Villaris kempo is a pure chinese style, the words karate judo and jiu jitsu were only added to market the style, because in america karate was very well known, as was judo and jiu jitsu, so its been advertized as kung fu karate judo and jiu djitsu, this is the Northern Shaolin 5 animal style as tought to FRED VILARI BY his wifes family ,they promoted FRED NOT NICK CERIO
And if you want to see Fred Vilaris style that he created it is called SHO TUNG QUAK, and only a hand full of people have lerned this from FRED VILARY , HIS ORIGINAL STUDENTS ONLY LERNED THIS STYLE, FRED BAGLY, ART SINGER, CHARLY MATERA, STEVE BUCANON, THIS IS THE REAL ART THAT FRED VILLARI HAS LERNED FORM HIS WIFES FAMILY, AND NOT FROM NICK CERIO,
FREDS KEMPO IS MUCH BETER FIGHTING ART THEN CERIOS OR PARKERS
ITS REAL SHAOLIN CHINESE FIGHTING ART NOT AMERICAN KENPO

[SimonM]

Do you mean this guy?" (https://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47292)

[TenTigers]

wow, that's a new version of his story.
In the seventies he said he learned from his father,"who would hang three heavybags, and I would strike them in very much the same way as you would the wooden man' LOL
I love how he used to say he learned" Kung-Fu and Gung-Fu, which is the soft art, as well as Chinese Boxing"
Then he said he learned from a French Legionnaire named LaFey.
In another article, he said he learned from the LeBlanc Brothers
-it seems he forgot his own bullshi-er story.
Now he learned in the Phillippines from his wife's family?
C'mon, do some homework. This guy's history and story changes every ten years.
According to Cerio, he was a 2nd dan in his system and was 'asked to leave".
He then created his own style, um. Sho Tung Quack? (logical) and promoted himself to Tenth Degree Grandmaster. Anyone can do this, and as the creator, you are certainly entitled to promote yourself to tenth dan..well, theoretically.

[TenTigers]

History
Here is an excerpt from Black Belt magazine in 1975: ‘Villari’s martial arts training started early in his life. After being introduced to Western and Chinese boxing by his father, Villari went on to study jiujitsu and wrestling with the LeBlanc brothers in his middle teens. By the time he was 18, Villari realized his martial arts training was stagnating and sought out Nick Cerio as an instructor of Chinese kenpo. After completing his requirements as second degree black belt with Cerio, Villari traveled to the West Indies where he traded his techniques for karate and kung-fu training. While in the islands, Villari also studied under a Chinese-Australian instructor Soo, and gained his third and fourth degrees. After working with another master Len Chou, Villari received his fifth degree and soon decided to open his own school.’

[Liddel]

Interesting thread....

I have a number of friends that did Parkers Kempo years ago and they had said it was very japanesse based strong closed and open hand techniques more karate style than anything...other friends of ours that started much later only learn soft chinesse style moves now..its drastically changed from what it once was down here in New Zealand and IMO lost practicallity and became more wushu performance based :o

It ****ed alot of BBs off as they had to learn a whole new base...

Oh and dont buy parkers sig pads, a friend bought a pair of focus mits and kick pads at a seni of parkers, i was the first one to land a side kick on them brand spanking new and broke the strap clean in two....and im a Wing Chun guy LOL my round kicks are soft as :p (compared to say karate or KB)

DREW

[TenTigers]

How many years ago" I did Kenpo 9n the late 70's-early 80's, and the kenpo I described comes from then.

[ktkungfu]

Fred Villari, learned under Cerio, and in an attempt to jump on the Shaolin bandwagon, "stylized" the forms and techniques to appear to the uneducated, to be Gung-Fu.

Ok this is enuph of this uneducated guess work, first lets get one thing straight
Fred Villari did study with Nick Cerio, but Nick Cerio was just one of his instructors
Fred Vilari was already a black belt when he went to NICK CIRIOS SCHOOL, and he at that time had to fight 18 of Nick Cirios black belts, Fred Villari beat them all and Cirio took him in as a sdtudent, Fred Villari then went to the phillipines whyle he was in the armed forcess and he met his wife hous family were all masteres of shaolin kempo, Fred Villaris kempo is a pure chinese style, the words karate judo and jiu jitsu were only added to market the style, because in america karate was very well known, as was judo and jiu jitsu, so its been advertized as kung fu karate judo and jiu djitsu, this is the Northern Shaolin 5 animal style as tought to FRED VILARI BY his wifes family ,they promoted FRED NOT NICK CERIO
And if you want to see Fred Vilaris style that he created it is called SHO TUNG QUAK, and only a hand full of people have lerned this from FRED VILARY , HIS ORIGINAL STUDENTS ONLY LERNED THIS STYLE, FRED BAGLY, ART SINGER, CHARLY MATERA, STEVE BUCANON, THIS IS THE REAL ART THAT FRED VILLARI HAS LERNED FORM HIS WIFES FAMILY, AND NOT FROM NICK CERIO,
FREDS KEMPO IS MUCH BETER FIGHTING ART THEN CERIOS OR PARKERS
ITS REAL SHAOLIN CHINESE FIGHTING ART NOT AMERICAN KENPO


Man I thought ussd people were brainwashed!

[ktkungfu]

sanjuro is correct.
It depends on which Kenpo style you are referring to.
There is Okinawan Ryukyu Kenpo, which has no resemblance to Chinese arts, and there is Shorinji Kempo, which although the founder, Doshin-So claims he created it after seeing the frescos on the Shaolin Temple walls, it still looks like Karate and Jiu-Jutsu.
There is Ed Parker's and Tracy's Kenpo, which came from Chow Kwai-Sun, and has had inputs from other Chinese teachers,and Hawaiian arts, and appears much more Gung-Fu like in its approach and movement.
I met a Hung-Ga practitioner whos lineage was not through Hong Kong, and his Hung-Ga looked very Kenpo-like as far as its movement, speed, and rapid-fire techniques.
Kajukenbo can look Chinese influenced as well, especially its offshoots such as Al Dacascos' Won Hop Kuen Do.
Nick Cerio's Kenpo came frome George Pesare,(it is said by some that he only aligned with Chow when Chow was elderly, so there was no real inpput other than lineage) and does not look Chinese influenced at all.
Fred Villari, learned under Cerio, and in an attempt to jump on the Shaolin bandwagon, "stylized" the forms and techniques to appear to the uneducated, to be Gung-Fu. Pinan Kata with Tiger Claws does not make it Gung-Fu.And forms with names like,"Ancient Chinese Kata Number One,Two ,etc" somehow seems to lack authenticity in my book.
Many offshoots from Villari have donned the "Shaolin" Moniker in an attempt to legitimze themselves.
There are Shaolin Kempo schools that have added instruction forom everyone from Tak Wah Eng to Shi Yan Ming, and the Shaolin Temple.
Those that know the real deal, know the real story. It's common knowledge in the Chinese Martial Arts Community.
If you are looking for a Kenpo school that is closer to Kung-Fu, then your best bet is Ed Parker,Tracy, and any of Parker's original students-Frank Trejo, Larry Tatum, etc.


I've seen Tak Wah Eng videos and he looks bad a$$
I would train with him over a ussd/villaris instructor anyday!

[jimmi555]

History
Here is an excerpt from Black Belt magazine in 1975: ‘Villari’s martial arts training started early in his life. After being introduced to Western and Chinese boxing by his father, Villari went on to study jiujitsu and wrestling with the LeBlanc brothers in his middle teens. By the time he was 18, Villari realized his martial arts training was stagnating and sought out Nick Cerio as an instructor of Chinese kenpo. After completing his requirements as second degree black belt with Cerio, Villari traveled to the West Indies where he traded his techniques for karate and kung-fu training. While in the islands, Villari also studied under a Chinese-Australian instructor Soo, and gained his third and fourth degrees. After working with another master Len Chou, Villari received his fifth degree and soon decided to open his own school.’

ok you are saying what i said , that Villari had many teachers not just NICK CIRIO
i know his father is the one that got him started learning boxin ,kung fu ,gung fu
and other arts, i know all this but the actual thuth is what i told you, i dont know his father inlaws name, could this be the so called master LEN CHOU ? i dont know that, but i know that the family of his wife are the laste ones to teach Villari, and thats hou gave him the knolege to create his own style, i know why you have this opinion about villari its because he did the rong thing when he dicided to supermarket chain his schools across the country, and i will agree that most of his instructors are not up to par, i am the first to say that , but i do give credit where crredit is dew, and he is a real master of tremendos fighting ability, i know one of his origial students CHARLIE MATERA, went to PARKER AND STUDIED WITH HIM FOR A WYLE BUT CAME BACK TO FRED untill they parted ways, but i can tell you his original instructors were realy exeptional fighters, STEVE BUCANNAN WAS THE BEST HARD STYLE FIGHTER I EVER HAVE SEEN, and people would come from miles away to watch Fred spar with Charlie, i know many guys from california that would come to boston just to get privet seminars on fighting from Fred, i know he was into marketing and making money but dont missjudge his ability, he is a real master trust me on that

[TenTigers]

yeah, Kung-Fu, Gung-Fu AND Chinese Boxing.

If you would read, just a wee tad. Do a little research. Open a book. Google something.(learn to spell BTW) perhaps you might realize that Kung-Fu, Gung-Fu and Chinese Boxing are simply differen t spellings and names
FOR THE EXACT SAME THING!
What this means is that he has absolutely no clue of what he is talking about.
His story changes each time he tells it, he makes up names, facts, etc
Either he is a pathological liar, or he thinks you, and the rest of the public are so stupid that you would buy into this bulls*** without ever checking it out.
oh...actually, that is exactly what you did.
hmmm.....

[TenTigers]

"i dont know that, but i know that the family of his wife are the laste ones to teach Villari, and thats hou gave him the knolege to create his own style"

yeah? How exactly do you KNOW this?

[ktkungfu]

ok you are saying what i said , that Villari had many teachers not just NICK CIRIO
i know his father is the one that got him started learning boxin ,kung fu ,gung fu
and other arts, i know all this but the actual thuth is what i told you, i dont know his father inlaws name, could this be the so called master LEN CHOU ? i dont know that, but i know that the family of his wife are the laste ones to teach Villari, and thats hou gave him the knolege to create his own style, i know why you have this opinion about villari its because he did the rong thing when he dicided to supermarket chain his schools across the country, and i will agree that most of his instructors are not up to par, i am the first to say that , but i do give credit where crredit is dew, and he is a real master of tremendos fighting ability, i know one of his origial students CHARLIE MATERA, went to PARKER AND STUDIED WITH HIM FOR A WYLE BUT CAME BACK TO FRED untill they parted ways, but i can tell you his original instructors were realy exeptional fighters, STEVE BUCANNAN WAS THE BEST HARD STYLE FIGHTER I EVER HAVE SEEN, and people would come from miles away to watch Fred spar with Charlie, i know many guys from california that would come to boston just to get privet seminars on fighting from Fred, i know he was into marketing and making money but dont missjudge his ability, he is a real master trust me on that



I worked for mattera he is a scumbag! Cheap $astard who only cares about himself!

Didn't GM Villari send charlee threw a wall one time?
Sparing match I meen.

[twistingcrane]

mattera is a great and honorable man.

[ktkungfu]

mattera is a great and honorable man.

Really? How well do you know him?

He rips off his instructors so he can drive around in his nice cars and let you drive a p.o.s.

[SimonM]

Jimmi555 a few things, and I offer this information in the kindest of manners, just to make your posts a bit more readable:

1) Commas are not periods. Please learn to determine when a sentence is over.
2) Don't put a space before a question mark.
3) Read your post once before posting for the most glaring of spelling mistakes.
4) As well as periods, paragraph breaks can help create structure in a post.

Like this:
Ok,, you are saying what i said: that Villari had many teachers, not just NICK CIRIO. I know his father is the one that got him started learning boxing, kung fu, gung fu (Editor's note: gung fu is simply the pingyin spelling of kung fu, not a separate art, I'd suggest editing to select only one of the above.) and other arts.

I know all this but the actual truth is what i told you; I dont know his father-in-law's name, could this be the so-called master LEN CHOU? I dont know that but I know that the family of his wife are the last ones to have taught Villari, and thats who gave him the knowledge to create his own style. I know why you have this opinion about Villari; it's because he did the wrong thing when he dicided to supermarket chain his schools across the country. I will agree that most of his instructors are not up to par, I am the first to say that, but i do give credit where credit is due, and he is a real master of tremendous fighting ability.

I know one of his origial students, Charlie Matera, went to Parker and studied with him for a while but came back to Fred untill they parted ways but i can tell you his original instructors were realy exceptional fighters. STEVE BUCANNAN WAS THE BEST HARD STYLE FIGHTER I EVER HAVE SEEN and people would come from miles away to watch Fred spar with Charlie.

I know many guys from California who would come to Boston just to get private seminars on fighting from Fred. I know he was into marketing and making money but dont mis-judge his ability. He is a real master; trust me on that.

See, except for one place where I suggested you edit your text this is using precisely the same wording that you used. I just fixed up the spelling, punctuation and spacing somewhat. And see how much easier it is to read?

I don't know Viliari from a hole in the ground. I am in a position where I could potentially be convinced, based on the arguments presented, that he is either a moke or a hard man. Making a convincing argument consists, in part, of presenting your argument legibly.

[TenTigers]

[QUOTE=SimonM;893095](Editor's note: gung fu is simply the pingyin spelling of kung fu, not a separate art, I'd suggest editing to select only one of the above.) and other arts.

Simon, that's the issue, right there. Villari used all three as if they were separate arts, thus deceiving his students into thinking he had a vast knowledge of Martial Arts, when in reality, he knew very little.
How many times have you met the guy who tried to BS you about his experience?
I met a guy who claimed to have fought Bruce Lee in Madison Square Garden. His students hung on his every word. If they had even read a magazine article, they would've known that Bruce Lee never fought in a tournament in Madison Square Garden.
This desrves a thread of it's own.

[SimonM]

I see... well score one point on the moke slot for deliberately misleading students...

[sanjuro_ronin]

This is why I have always said that who a person knows or even trains with is irrelevant to the persons skill and understanding of a fighting system, its what they can do.

As I have often stated, wanna know my "lineage" ?
Step out on to the "mat" and I will show you it.

[SimonM]

Kung Fu = Gong Fu = Gung Fu (all of the above essentially mean "hard work")
Wu Gong = Martial Arts
Wu Shu = Martial Arts (not as commonly used in Northern China as Wu Gong)
Chang Quan = Long Fist
Nan Quan = Southern Fist
Taiji = Tai Chi = Taijiquan = Tai Chi Chuan = Tai Chi Quan
Hsingyi = Xingyi = Hsing-i
Bagua = Pakua

So, please, if somebody tries to plump their credentials by saying they practiced Kung Fu, Gong Fu, Wu Gong, Wu Shu, Hsing-i, and Xingyi.... remember... the only thing they claimed to do was practice some sort of martial art including Xingyi.

China is a pain in the ass for names.... don't let that trick you.

[jimmi555]

yeah, Kung-Fu, Gung-Fu AND Chinese Boxing.

If you would read, just a wee tad. Do a little research. Open a book. Google something.(learn to spell BTW) perhaps you might realize that Kung-Fu, Gung-Fu and Chinese Boxing are simply differen t spellings and names
FOR THE EXACT SAME THING!
What this means is that he has absolutely no clue of what he is talking about.
His story changes each time he tells it, he makes up names, facts, etc
Either he is a pathological liar, or he thinks you, and the rest of the public are so stupid that you would buy into this bulls*** without ever checking it out.
oh...actually, that is exactly what you did.
hmmm.....

kung fu or gung fu or chinese boxing are the same thing yes, i know that , every one knows that, the only diferance is the way its pronownsed, im sure Fred knew that as well, i think your getting hung up on details on words and letting your imagination run wild, on the contrary i have done much reserch and that is how i know all this that im telling you , i even talked to many of his first students, when he started all this, people that were very close to him, i have talked to him as well to see if the information matches , because Villari said this or that or did not tell the hole story from the begining dose not make it lies, i have made the same mistake before and i too was asked why you did not say this from the begining, so i can see how this would cause a problem, but i cant take just take your interpitation of what Fred Villari said i have to take into account all the information that i have gathered
and i have plenty of thing to be critical about with Fred, his too comershal for my liking he only cares about money not teachin high quality martial arts, as long as he gets his cut im sure he would never tell his instructors there not qualified to teach, but for him self he is realy good a master

[jimmi555]

I worked for mattera he is a scumbag! Cheap $astard who only cares about himself!

Didn't GM Villari send charlee threw a wall one time?
Sparing match I meen.

I don't know Matteras personality to tell you if he is a good man or scum bag as you say, i do know that he is a very good fighter, and he and Villari had many matches people would come to watch, and they did end there relationship not on the good side, with money conflicts lol

[jimmi555]

Really? How well do you know him?

He rips off his instructors so he can drive around in his nice cars and let you drive a p.o.s.

I do know that his the only Villari instructor to drive a Ferari lol

[jimmi555]

Vallari is a ensiclopedia of kung fu information, that is the last thing he needed to do just to show that he has alot of information to teach, you seem to realy have it our for Villari lol, i will not try to defend him and get in a argument with you or any one, after all his not a fried of mine lol , i just wanted to give some facts that i have recerched about him and his style, i did find our descution very interesting hope we can find another subject to talkd about that wont cause such a stir lol
kind regards
james

[TenTigers]

I do know that his the only Villari instructor to drive a Ferari lol

I think Steve Demasco had a Ferarri as well.

[TenTigers]

kung fu or gung fu or chinese boxing are the same thing yes, i know that , every one knows that, the only diferance is the way its pronownsed, im sure Fred knew that as well, i think your getting hung up on details on words and letting your imagination run wild, on the contrary i have done much reserch and that is how i know all this that im telling you , i even talked to many of his first students, when he started all this, people that were very close to him, i have talked to him as well to see if the information matches , because Villari said this or that or did not tell the hole story from the begining dose not make it lies, i have made the same mistake before and i too was asked why you did not say this from the begining, so i can see how this would cause a problem, but i cant take just take your interpitation of what Fred Villari said i have to take into account all the information that i have gathered
and i have plenty of thing to be critical about with Fred, his too comershal for my liking he only cares about money not teachin high quality martial arts, as long as he gets his cut im sure he would never tell his instructors there not qualified to teach, but for him self he is realy good a master

this is why there are schools like vilarri,ussd,etc
they fill a need

[SimonM]

Thank you so much, Jimmi555, for your careful scrutiny of my suggestions. :rolleyes:

[ktkungfu]

I think Steve Demasco had a Ferarri as well.

The sweat of his instructors.

[ktkungfu]

I don't know Matteras personality to tell you if he is a good man or scum bag as you say, i do know that he is a very good fighter, and he and Villari had many matches people would come to watch, and they did end there relationship not on the good side, with money conflicts lol

Yeah they didn't really talk about GM FRED VILLARI. Hide where they come from but teach his art.

[TenTigers]

The sweat of his instructors.

I don't think that is true, at least not when I was with them. I felt I got good money and bonuses, and Demasco, being district manager over several schools, got a piece of each. Not a big enough piece that denied me of my share. Nothing wrong with profit sharing.
But also bear in mind that I was a paid instructor, and not a school owner. Obviously, as a separate entity, I get the entire net profits.
He and I didn't click, which is okay. You're not going to be best friends with everybody you meet. Chemistry is chemistry.
I would've liked to have seen more quality control, and I am sure that Demasco, after all these years has gotten the bugs out of the system when it comes to that. You don't go on this long making the same mistakes.

I just don't understand why some of you cannot let go.

"Holding a grudge is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die."
Trust me, you are holding all this hostility, and he probably doesn't even remember your name.
let it go.
move on with your life.

[jimmi555]

I think Steve Demasco had a Ferarri as well.

I olny know the original 5 Villari instructors,and only one of them personaly so i would not know that about Steve Demasco

[jimmi555]

The ones i know Villari trained well were, Steave Bagly, Art Singer, Petter Shean,Charley Matera,and Steve Bucannon, i only know Mr.Bucannon in person and personaly have seen him teaching and as a fighter for years, he was the best i ever saw in hard style

[TenTigers]

Fred Bagley

[sanjuro_ronin]

Fred Bagley

The inventor of Bagels?

I love that guy !!

[TenTigers]

the founder of Judo

(Jew-dough):D

[jimmi555]

Fred Bagley

now the spelling bothers you? lol i think you got too much time on your hands

[jimmi555]

so you guys both worked for Fred Villari? no wonder so much animosity,lol what rank are you in villaris system? did he ever promote you to black belts? or is that why your so upset with him?Seriosly dont be haters lol makes you guys look like your turning on your master lol ha ha ha

[jimmi555]

The inventor of Bagels?

I love that guy !!

I can never forget i was born there

[TenTigers]

now the spelling bothers you? lol i think you got too much time on your hands

yes.
that's right,
it's the spelling.
The name, Fred is not spelled Steave,
- just like the word cat is not spelled the same way you would spell refrigerator.
Can you follow this?

Let me ask you something.
I'm curious.
How does it feel to be that stupid?

[jimmi555]

yes.
that's right,
it's the spelling.
The name, Fred is not spelled Steave,
- just like the word cat is not spelled the same way you would spell refrigerator.
Can you follow this?

Let me ask you something.
I'm curious.
How does it feel to be that stupid?Guess i hit a nerve ,you sound angry
relax take a deep breath,didnt Fred teach you any thing ? lol no wonder your so angry ,you feel lef out lmao

[TenTigers]

nope, not angry at all, kid.
Just curious how someone can see something right in front of their eyes and still not get it. But that's ok, you seem to be very happy with what you are doing, so that's great. In the end, all that matters is that you enjoy what you do.
Best of luck.

[SimonM]

I also take umbrage with your abuse of the english language. :p

[ktkungfu]

I don't know Matteras personality to tell you if he is a good man or scum bag as you say, i do know that he is a very good fighter, and he and Villari had many matches people would come to watch, and they did end there relationship not on the good side, with money conflicts lol

I heard mattera was a good fighter up around 82 when his leg was injured. He was a great kicker not the best hand to hand guy. After that he was never the same.
Great story though. If you have any more to post that would be great!