Lau Bun Elephant Form

[Infrazael]

Anyone on here know this form? Are there any videos of the whole thing anywhere?

It sounds interesting. I know some of you guys hate sharing forms but if I can get some information then I'll be thankful.

[TaichiMantis]

Aaradia on DL just completed a seminar on that form, you can read her review here (http://www.dragonslist.com/discussion/other/22879-advice-seminar-take-8.html#post360500).:cool:

[TenTigers]

aw, c'mon Frank. We all know, you don't get it for years.

"after two years, I thought I was pretty good.
Now, twenty years later, I think I'm not so good"
-quote from Budokan website

[Infrazael]

ahhhh next subject pls. :)

Yeah I know. Your secret form. I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask though, ya know. :p

[banditshaw]

who held that seminar?

just learning the form isn't enough. you can have the form, but "DO YOU HAVE IT?" is what im asking?

It would seem that it was held by your old buddy Doc Fai Wong.

[TenTigers]

has anybody seen DFW's Joi Bot Sien?

[once ronin]

I have seen this odd form taught a few times back in the 1960's.

If I see it again, it wont be hard to recognise.

It has some odd angles in the form.

I'll try dig up some pictures of Lau Bun with the poses within the form.

[Dragkin]

Hmmmm, I know that GM DFW wrote an article about one of the Elephant forms a while ago in a kung fu magazine - does anybody know what issue it was or if I can find it online? This form has always been really fascinating to me for some reason, maybe because I look like an elephant :) Just, without the long trunk - hehe.

[Sifu at Large]

Is it this one?

http://www.taichiherb.com/index.php?fuseaction=martialarts.elephantform

:D

[ngokfei]

Just passing by.

I got to learn a couple of parts of this CLF set from the late sifu Chan Wai Gong.

He was mainly known as a Contemporary Tai Chi teacher in NYC but was originally from Toisan where he learned CLF and other village type southern syles.

Sorry don't really remember it but I believe one of my training brothers while in Yee's Hung Ga - Bill Fong learned the complete set. He has a school in Staten Island New York.

[ngokfei]

so, are you saying that this person learned Lau Bun's elephant form, and if so, from whom did he learn it from?

Nope just that he taught a CLF Elephant hand Form.
Have no idea who his CLF teacher was.

[Steeeve]

Here the elephant form from GM Ark Yuen Wong...Does its the same of GM Lau bun?????;)

at 1 min:16sec .......:)

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=cv4wvEc93nU


Steeeve

[dragon323]

Hello

seisei say:

"classmate jimmy doc fai wong, you must realize that at the time I was learning(1961) sifu was older in his 70's and sickly, so most of the time he would have any senior who came in at the time we were practicing to advance us in moves and then correct us later, in the case of the Elephant I was lucky enough to have been coached by Bob Louie,Jimmy Jew Leong, Roy And Henry from time to time, Bob and Jimmy JewLeong were the reputed masters of this form"

and Doc Fai Wong wrote:

"After Lau Bun died, I did pick up a few forms that I had not learned from him from a couple of Lau Bun's senior students. Bob Louie taught me the Elephant Form, because he knew it best of all..........Sifu Jew asked me to teach one of his senior students the rattan shield and sword set that he did not learn from Lau Bun. I respected his request and taught it. I don't think there is anything wrong with that! We were in the same school and in the same kung fu family."


seisei say:

"When we learned the form,sifu taught us differently from each other..."

and Doc Fai Wong wrote:

"During the time I was training under Lau Bun, senior students like Roy, EY Lee, Ah Foon, Tim Hall, Lucky and his brother Johnny, were all learning the sets the same way. However, Sifu Jew Lang's sets are quite different from the way we learned."

http://www.plumblossom.net/Articles/hungsing.html

Un saludo.

[dragon323]

Hello

hskwarriors say:

"At 4:24 of this video, you will see the woman arching backwards in our form called Sup Ji Kau Da. That arch backwards is NOT in the original form. AND PROFESSOR LAU BUN IS PRESENT IN MOST OF THAT VIDEO Professor Lau Bun was known to teach people different ways due to their size and body structure."

- Yes, I know Sup JI Kau Da.

"For DFW to ever insinuate that Prof Lau taught him the MORE AUTHENTIC hung sing clf over what the Professor taught Jew Leong is rediculous."

- and Doc Fai Wong say: "Second, I have never claimed that I teach the original Lau Bun forms. What I said was that I teach the way that I learned from Lau Bun."

"Heck, DFW has a great VERSION of our butterfly knife set, its the same set just arranged differently. "

- False, Doc Fai Wong has a version from Lau Bun of butterfly knife sets, "What I said was that I teach the way that I learned from Lau Bun."

"Doc Fai Wong became a student of Professor Lau just 3 years prior to passing away"

- False; Doc Fai Wong say; "In February 1963 I officially joined the San Francisco's Hung Sing School under Lau Bun's direction.........I did most of the teaching for him for about one and half years before his death on September 6, 1967."

- And also say; "Some of the other students were only there to hang out for social gathering or to sit around and chat. Yet later they claimed to have studied with him for many years."

Un saludo.

[dragon323]

Hello

seisei say;

"he had to relearn jimmy jew leongs way"

- Doc Fai Wong say: "However, Sifu Jew Lang's sets are quite different from the way we learned. I don't know what Lau Bun taught him in the old days. Perhaps he learned the forms that way or he changed them on his own. Of course, this is not a problem. He can teach what he wishes..........Yes, Sifu Jew did teach me the gim (straight sword) set that he created. The reason I say that Sifu Jew created the gim set is because I witnessed Lau Bun teaching it to Susan Lam, my junior kung fu sister and the movements are totally different. Therefore I have not practiced and have not taught the gim form that Sifu Jew taught me."

"One other thing in the photos my sifu would not tolerate such a high horse as done in the photos"

- Sure?

http://www.americanhsk.zoomshare.com/my_images/sigungaddiesifu2.jpg
http://www.americanhsk.zoomshare.com/my_images/hungsingkids.jpg

Un saludo.

[dragon323]

Hello

hskwarriors say;

"okay, case in point..........

E.Y. Lee's Sup Ji Kau Da Kuen

Sup Ji Kau Dau Kuen (in Part) taught at MY SCHOOL (HSKUSAHQ)"

- I don´t like either of the two versions, I think GM Lau Bun nor.
They do not have enough strength, no power.


This "Butterfly Knive" form is ours. if you know this set, its the same, however, dfw added in some chan family elements into it though."

- False, You do not know how it is that way in reality.

"but look at how DFW moves compared to my sigung "Jew Leong"

- You can not compare, the camera (Jew Leong) is accelerated, and Doc Fai Wong moves slowly to teach.

"my sifu is also in that video doing the double hatchets......you will notice the difference in movement between our two schools."

- Yes, very different.

Un saludo.

[dragon323]

Hello

hskwarriors say;

"DFW's School in 1992

Thats the way they used to look. "

- That is the way in 1992 showed that in the documentary, and you compare with that:

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=JB7gzhls57w

Un saludo.

[iron_silk]

hey Frank

dragon323 maybe wrong on his replies but I think we should leave DFW out of this.

I remember reading that DFW learned Jew Leong's version of the sets b/c it was different from what he learned. That doesn't necessarily means either version is wrong or more faithful just different.

and I am sure DFW probably added modification to certains set so that they seem more unified with the rest of the forms he taught.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

and I am sure DFW probably added modification to certains set so that they seem more unified with the rest of the forms he taught.

And why shouldn't he? Who doesn't have thier own 'way' of doing a particular movement or set? I think there is a lot of nitpicking going on here.

The 'pop' at 52/53 seconds? Aww, c'mon...this is getting worse than the Wing Chun/Tsun people.

It's all CLF - Gwa, So Chaap. Sure, as the generations continue, there will be more separation/less unification. More and more people are doing the style and everyone has the right to interpret it the way they wish. After all..it's public domain - no one 'ownes' the style.

It's sensless to argue these minor points.

If someone raises a technical question about the validity of a specific 'stylistic change', THAT, I can understand. But this other stuff is just ridonkulous.

And DFW is a good guy, leave him out of this. He is not even here....

[seisei]

hsk warrior, you have been around us tooooooo......... long
M

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Mike, what if i don't want to leave him out of this?

Uh, then don't. Whatever...


BTW, I don't think it's so much a 'pop' as it is DFW trying to get his kick up, as he is doing the movement slowly. I think it hardly falls into the catagory of 'Chan-isms" that he may or may not have put in.

:p

[Infrazael]

What's the video with the "pop" you're talking about?

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Mike,

Try taking a look at more chan family material. You will notice that there is a little explosive "pop" as they spread their hands right before the kick up to the bow. that "Pop" is found ONLY in Chan Family CLF. It is NOT and WAS NOT ever a part of a stylistic expression EVER in our lineage. DFW has lots of Chan Family material, to someone who has completely learned the Yuen Hai lineage, you would know, plus by viewing other Hung Sing Fut San schools, that POP is not and will not be done. it is not our WAY.....its their way.

All I'm saying is "big deal". So he does that movement a little different, so what? I still think you are nitpicking here. My Sifu didn't do it the same way either, but I think we all understand that there are probably a few ways to pull off the same technique, no?

It's good that DFW had the opportunity to study some different lineages - diversity is what made all our Gung Fu anyway, right?

So what if he does it a little different? He acknowledges his teachers, gives them respect and has probably done more for the style of CLF than anyone in the last 50 years. Plus, he's a super nice guy. You've got to give him his props.

Because of his articles, books and videos - the style is popular all over the world. I don't think it would be prudent to say otherwise.

Not belittling any of your accomplishments, but you really shouldn't be slamming the guy over a forum.

[TenTigers]

I am also interested in seeing this "pop" thing. Could you please post the link to the video?

[dragon323]

Hello

Hskwarriors;

I do not speak English, I have a lot to prepare a reply.
Online translators are not good.

I've written, because of veiled way, you and seisei, you are constantly telling half truths about DFW.

I'd like you can respond in Spanish, would come to light many "truths" of yourself.

Un saludo.

[iron_silk]

The "POP" is ONLY a Chan Family thing. That is NOT found ANYWHERE in Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut. So, nah, YOU come awn!

And I speak for the Yuen Hai lineage when i say that too.

I have to disagree since in the past I have learned Chan Family CLF and we did no such pop-ing...

In fact Chinese martial arts in general has the back straight and don't lean backward to kick (like other known martial arts).

I think the pop-ing is more of different instructors who might have added it in rather than making it a Chan-family thing.

I don't think this chan family guy got pop http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocr5SPFNQbQ&feature=related

or this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0grSqXKbbI&feature=related




...unless I misunderstood the pop you meant...then i'd be sorry for interupting

[sanjuro_ronin]

I saw the POP, where is SNAP and CRACKLE ?

[sanjuro_ronin]

In your Arse :D

Flirt...
:D

Seriously, I think Mike is right, you are nitpicking and you keep this up, you'll be worse than the WC people !
:eek:

[sanjuro_ronin]

I ain't nitpicking anything. I want to keep my Hung Sing CLF pure, just straight up Hung Sing Fut San style CLF.

but i could see how others think its nitpicking. however, its better that arse picking, nosepicking, or toe jam picking. right?

Can't argue there !
Still, you arr venturing very close to WC land and arguing for 100 pages about "bongs".
:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think its best to say, about stylistic differences, that:
"we do it this way in our style, his is fine, but I prefer ours".
Simple, direct and correct, always.

[ngokfei]

just some additional info I found out about Chan Wai Gong who taught
Hung Seng CLF he learned from Chen Chang Mao (four county region of Guangdong Province)

Anyone have bio info on Chen Chang Mao?

[extrajoseph]

Chen Chang-Mao first learned from Chan Heung's eldest son, Chan On-Pak, after On-Pak died he learned from Chan Heung's secong son, Chan Koon-Pak who became a merchant in Kong Moon for a while. When Koon-Pak left for Canton, Chen Chang-Mao stayed and taught there for over 20 years.

He was a honest and upright person, a fierce fighter also known for his lion dance skill, in which he usually does the head while his class mate Yuan Ah-Jek do the tail. In Kong-Moon he trained many outstanding students and disciples and their lineage formed the present day core of teachers for the spread of CLF in this region.

[ngokfei]

thanks for the info

see, learn something new every day.