is this something, or nothing?

[IronFist]

So I was doing my 15 min of standing qigong today but the experience was unlike every prior experience.

Normally I get pretty warm and start sweating within 5-10 minutes of beginning, and sometimes I get a tingling sensation in my hands, but I always assumed it was because of how I was holding my arms and I was probably pinching a nerve somewhere because it feels an awful lot like when your hand starts to fall asleep :D

But today was like the opposite... I was feeling cold... and the tingling started in my hands as per usual, but then it got like CRAZY intense... and then the "p.rickly", hand-falling-asleep feeling was replaced by like... the feeling of waves flowing over my hands. Have you ever stuck your hand vertically in the ocean as the water smashes against your palm? It was kind of like that. It was very, very intense and very noticeable. I was almost starting to freak out. Read on.

Ok so I've found that I can time my 15 minutes by doing 150 breaths. The first 100 breaths are with my hands at chest height, and the last 50 are at dan tien height (this is the recommended locations and time proportions as per Erle Montaigue's "Qigong for All Reasons" article).

So normally I get the p.rickly feeling in my hand around breath 60-70 and it's more intense by 100, and then when I lower my hands it slowly goes away during the last 50 breaths.

But this time, the pin p.ricks started around 60, as per usual, and then the wave feeling came on around breath 70, and just kept getting more and more intense. I stuck it out until breath 100 and then lowered my hands and the sensation slowly became less intense but even when I finished my session I could still feel it.

The other thing that was weird was my hands were FREEZING when I was done. It's a little colder than usual today in my place, but normally I'm always hot anyway, and qigong just makes me even more hot.


So did I just tap into the power of qi? Or did I almost just kill myself? Or was my body just cold and my hands had their circulation cut off?











edit - apparently you can't say p.r.i.c.k on this forum :D

[taai gihk yahn]

sounds like you had a "release" occur in the muscular / connective tissue system (pine and needles and then wave effect), accompanied by an autonomic nervous system response (temperature stuff); meaning that you might have had some sort of restriction that "let go" at in whatever structures were "living" in a astate of relative dysfunction (decreased extensability, lymphatic congestion, muscular hypertonicity or inhibition - there can be lots of things that exist in relative dysfunction); I predicate this based on my experience subjectively as well as treating clients where the "pins and needles" feeling followed by the "wave" effect is something I have encountered in this regard; standing practice can certainly have this effect, especially w/the breathing added on

based on the position of your arms (and because of what you felt in them), it was possibly something released in the thoracic / respiratory diaphragm / rib-cage zone, which is an area typically loaded with restricted structures; the temperature effects could are probably related to the autonomic nervous system doing some sort of "rebalancing", and you had some reflexive decrease in blood flow to the arms (but you didn't "cut off circulation", don't worry, you can't really do that without direct pressure - but soft tissue restriction / muscular hypertonicity can impact blood flow); personally, it's usually not a big deal, either with myself or clients - but the fist time it hits someone, it cab be pretty intense and an be freaky if one is not ready for it; the question is also whether it re-occurs, and how; also, if you felt ok a little while after or not; I'm not asking, I'm just qualifying my "answer"; sometimes you can feel crappy for days, other times it's gone in a short while, it depends on numerous factors

overall, you might want to consider finding a qualified teacher if your practice is progressing to the point where stuff is happening in your body that the books you are using aren't giving you the heads up about what you are experieincing...

[bawang]

i think it was hypothermia lol. if u get tingling sensation ur hands shoud be burning hot

[taai gihk yahn]

i think it was hypothermia lol. if u get tingling sensation ur hands shoud be burning hot

if you are talking about "pins and needles" usually people feel cold in the effected extremity; the warmth comes with the "wave" effect; after it's all over, they can feel cold again, or just go back to regular temp;

this is different from the tingling sensation that you get where you have that mottling / throbbing effect in the hands and fingers; with this you can feel warmth - maybe that is what you are talking about, but I don't think it's what he is describing

[IronFist]

I think I should hold my arms in that position while I'm not doing qigong and see if I get the same "pins and needles" sensation.

Of course, my anterior deltoid (front head of the shoulder) muscle gets tired when I hold my hands out for a long time, so that won't be much fun. The first few days I did standing qigong my shoulders were burning for the last few minutes of it. Now they're pretty much fine.

Re: how I felt after - I felt fine. I always feel a little "stiff" afterward, and if I try to slowly curl in my fingers it feels like there's some resistance or something there, but that goes away as soon as I move them. Keep in mind I've been doing this for about a week. Here are some noteworthy things I've noticed:

Everyday: I go through moments when I'm pretty still and moments when my torso is like vibrating, twisting or moving itself. It comes and goes. I assume this is because my legs are getting tired/shaky and is similar to how you would shake after a while if you were holding a low horse stance, or if you were holding a book at shoulder level with your arm fully extended.

Days 1-3: my shoulders were burning like crazy after the 10 minutes of arms at chest level. This is obviously because my body wasn't used to doing that. It's exactly like how your legs get sore the first time you run, but after you've been running miles for weeks they don't bother you anymore.

Day 3: My spine was randomly cracking and popping as I stood there breathing. It didn't hurt; it actually felt good. I assume this was something "realigning" itself. It hasn't happened since.

Day 4: I swear to god I could feel my testicles moving up as I breathed in and down as I breathed out. This began to happen around minute 7 and continued for the rest of the session. It was weird. It hasn't happened before or since.

Today: The crazy wave-feeling in my hands.


I should also note that all I'm focusing on when I'm doing it is my breathing. Obviously thoughts are popping into my head from time to time, but I'm not thinking about anything. I am counting breaths, however, so I'm being conscious of that.

As for breathing, all I'm concentrating on is doing abdominal breathing. I'm not consciously trying to circulate the qi, or imagine it's following a certain path, or anything like that. I have Erle Montaigue's video on basic qigong where he describes a path (I think it's from the dan tien, up the back, down to the mouth on the inhale (or maybe it's just to the top of the head), and from the mouth down to the dan tien on the exhale, but don't quote me on that), but I'm not even worrying about that at this point in time. All I'm doing is breathing into my abdomen and expanding my belly. I might worry about circulating the qi or whatever after a month or two. What do you think?

[IronFist]

I'm actually glad that the "wave" feeling came toward the end of the 10 minute section. It was getting to be super strong to the point that I was beginning to consider getting worried.

I will see if it comes back tomorrow. In all honesty I don't know what I will do if it starts at like minute 3 because I know it will just get stronger and stronger. Or it may not come at all!

I just want to make sure it's ok and it's not like a massive cloud of qi that's going to rush into my head and make me go crazy, or rush into my heart and cause my chest to explode ;)

I'll keep you posted.

[taai gihk yahn]

What do you think?
I think that because you seem to be experiencing many of the things that are classically described as being effects of standing practice (e.g. - spontaneous body "twisting"), you really need to find a teacher who can work with you directly and give you feedback about what you have described based on his / her assessment of things you cannot communicate on an internet forum (e.g. - body alignment, breath quality, etc.)...

[IronFist]

so how do i find a good teacher? Do i just call up a tai chi/qigong place and say "hey, can you take a look at my standing qigong?"

I need to make sure I find a *good* teacher and not some new age hippie nor some crazy Gary Busey guy like was mentioned in the "low key unguided qigong" thread :D

[IronFist]

I emailed some qigong schools in my city and asked if they can help me.

In the meantime, I found this, which is reassuring:

http://www.dynamicbalancingtaichi.co.uk/Standing%20Qigong%202.htm


Hot hands

Your hands may become warm. This indicates an improved energy flow.
They may also appear blotchy as the skin breathes more fully.

Two advanced sensations: 'nettle sting' - an almost unpleasant degree of tingling, and 'running water' - which feels like your hands are beneath a running tap.
Unless you experience an adverse reaction, accept what is happening and relax.



edit - in my practice today, nothing eventful happened. I had a bit of the pins and needs feeling in my hands, but no "running water." My torso got warm and my left armpit was dripping sweat (it would run down my side... lol, eww), and when I was done, again my hands were freezing.

[bawang]

well the obvios explanation is
u didnt visualize qi ,
u learned from that floating fat man erle montague on the internet
u know , frand, liek i would rather learn from a hippie, they at least teach it correctly

[IronFist]

well the obvios explanation is
u didnt visualize qi ,
u learned from that floating fat man erle montague on the internet
u know , frand, liek i would rather learn from a hippie, they at least teach it correctly

what's wrong with how Erle teaches it? Seems pretty much the same as every other standing qigong instruction i've seen.

Also I found a local teacher who said he will take a look at my form :cool:

[Wu Lizhu]

What exercise are you doing?
What time of day?
How log have you been doing the same exercise or do you have different sets?
How do you "cool down" after or do you?

Foot and toe position?
Tongue position?
Breathing, holding at all?

[taai gihk yahn]

well the obvios explanation is
u didnt visualize qi


What exercise are you doing?
What time of day?
How log have you been doing the same exercise or do you have different sets?
How do you "cool down" after or do you?
Foot and toe position?
Tongue position?
Breathing, holding at all?
sounds like some folks here are going to attempt to "instruct" you; caveat emptor...


what's wrong with how Erle teaches it? Seems pretty much the same as every other standing qigong instruction i've seen.
I personally don't care for what I have seen from him; regardless, even the "best" qigong instruction via book or video is going to lack what is fundamentally required: moment-to-moement direct, live feedback


Also I found a local teacher who said he will take a look at my form :cool:
that is probably the best thing to do at this point (assuming the person is skilled; if you "idiot detector" goes off, move on)

[IronFist]

What exercise are you doing?

Standing post. 10 min with hands at chest level, 5 min with hands at dan tien level.

What time of day?

Between 2 and 6pm. My schedule is different every day


How log have you been doing the same exercise or do you have different sets?

Two weeks. Standing post is all I do.

How do you "cool down" after or do you?

I walk a round a bit, move my arms and legs and fingers around a bit.


Foot and toe position?

Feet shoulder width apart, toes lightly gripping the ground, weight over the center/heel of my foot.

Tongue position?
hard pallate, not touching teeth. The normal tongue resting position.

Breathing, holding at all?

In and out through nose, abdominal breathing. No holding.

[IronFist]

that is probably the best thing to do at this point (assuming the person is skilled; if you "idiot detector" goes off, move on)

Yeah that's kinda what I'm thinking. Our appointment is next Tuesday evening. The guy said he would meet with me for 20-30 min before their evening qigong class. I thought that was pretty cool of him.

[Wu Lizhu]

pm me please.

[IronFist]

^ You've had a PM for a while :D

The wave feeling happened again the other day, and when I was done my hands were freezing again. The feeling persisted for a few minutes after I had finished my 15 minutes.

Weird.

[IronFist]

So I met with the qigong guy today. He said my form looked good. He said perhaps starting at 15 minutes a day was too much and that's why I was feeling weird. He suggested I start with 1/2 or 1/3 of that and work my way up over time.

What does the qigong forum think?

[SevenHands]

After reading this thread, I felt compelled to find this fellows webpage. Giving it a look over, the first stance seemed quite basic and easy to understand. So I figured I'd give it a try and see what happens. I thought for sure I wouldn't last anywhere close to 15 minues with my knees bent, since back when I practiced KungFu all I could do was a few minutes in the horsestance. Anyways, after about 5 minutes I almost stopped, not due to lack of physical stamina, but because in my mind, all of a sudden I figured I'd done enough. The mind's an untame creature sometimes. After bringing my mind back I found that the next 5 minutes breezed by with a quiet calmness, but sometime around then my legs started to shake. The last 5 minutes they were shaking uncontrollably, not violently, but spontaneously shaking nonetheless. After the full 15 minutes I stood up out of the stance and just standing there, the shaking continued. Even walking for the first few steps was quite interesting. I've never felt that way before, closest being full out squats at the gym. I didn't notice much with my upper body except that my forearms and hands were warm, actually my body was comfortably warm all over.

Anyways, thought I'd share.

SevenHands...

[IronFist]

How high was your horse stance? I do such a high horse stance that I don't think my leg shaking has anything to do with fatigued leg muscles.

[SevenHands]

A horse stance is with your feet parallel, but quite wide (a few feet apart) if I'm not mistaken. The first stance that this fellow describes is with feet parallel, but about shoulder width apart, which is how I positioned my feet. My knees weren't bent much at all, probably about 15 degrees or less. Even though I was in a shallow stance, the muscles in my legs were definately "worked". Walking down stairs for the evening after that felt much like after a good few sets of squats at the gym. I tried the same stance for about 15 minutes a couple of days after the first time and got the same vibrations, albeit a little less. I figure the body would adapt to this static muscle contraction over time and it would take either longer, or a deeper stance to cause the same vibrations. I can't say as anything strange happed with my upper body the second time, except my shoulders becoming tired, and then after a couple of more minutes, the tiredness subsiding to a comfortableness, relatively speaking of course.