What does your school do to bring in students?

[Tainan Mantis]

I am looking for success stories on what worked for making people come in to the school.
My school is very low key, outdoors on a semi deserted street.

I put up signs in front of the school.
I put up ads on craig's list
I set up a website for the school http://www.thekungfugym.com/
I wear kung fu shirts
I post on KFO
I post videos on youtube http://uk.youtube.com/user/KevinBrazier
If a student brings in someone new the old student gets $25 off the tuition that month.

THE RESULTS
KFO article about me brought in some students
Craig's list has brought a bunch of offers of parents who want to send their daughter to study with me two hours a day 5 days a week. I need to find them a place to live also! I just need to send info on how they can wire money to my bank account.
The sign at my school brought in a student
I get the rest of the students from referrals

Besides that I am thinking about peppering Tampa with yard signs at every intersection.
I am thinking about putting door knob hanger ads all over the local neighborhoods.

Thoughts?

[MightyB]

but the biggest spike that I can remember at my Sifu's mantis school was after he bought an ad at a local movie theatre. It was nothing more than a slide (posed photograph of a bunch of students working out) and the basic info that you'd put on a flier. This ran with a bunch of other similar slides for small businesses prior to the reels being turned on in the theatre. I believed he was at around 50 students prior to the slide- and after a couple of months of running it- he topped at about 110 students.

[Tainan Mantis]

Thanks Mighty B,
Haven't been to the theatre in so long I forgot about those slide shows.
Sounds like a great idea!

[Oso]

THE RESULTS

Craig's list has brought a bunch of offers of parents who want to send their daughter to study with me two hours a day 5 days a week. I need to find them a place to live also! I just need to send info on how they can wire money to my bank account.

you do know this is probably a scam, right?
especially if there are multiple offers.

[Tainan Mantis]

Yes, I know it is somehow a scam, but I don't know how it works.

Some people must sit and read every craig's ad in every city and send out these poorly worded misspelled con letters all day long.

[SoCo KungFu]

My Hung Gar sifu I found on yellowpages.com

My BJJ gym I found on Google.

Now that I moved the new MMA gym I will be going to I found on Myspace.

Yellowpages.com is usually the first place I've always looked when I am looking for anything. Dunno how much it costs to put up your ad there. The thing is its all those websites/searches are free for the seeker. And they are all things that someone that doesn't know a thing about martial arts would possibly go through. Unlike KFO. And chances are if they can swing the money for monthly tuition in a MA school then they probably got internet. And you will still get the people without a phone book because well, who has those anymore? Cell phones are cheaper.

Just be sure to link your website. Its annoying when you find a number and there's nothing to look through to check up on some background before contacting the instructor.

Maybe its just me. But yellowpages.com and and mapquest are like my best friends.

[GreenCloudCLF]

Retention is cheaper than new enrollments. If what you do is good enough your students will stay, and refer others.

Buy a mailing list with phone numbers in your area. Mail to all the prospects and follow-up with phone calls 5 days after mailing.

[brothernumber9]

Incentives for current students to refer new ones. Get the prospective student after referal to try an intro class or few. If the prospect joins, his referal gets some reward. ex: credit toward any supplies, or recurring fees like testing, or discounts to their tuition. Free private lesson(s) with the head instructor of the school or one of the seniors.

[MightyB]

Right now's a good time to contact local schools to see if you can put on a MA demonstration/Rally. You have to be creative in making it relate to a school goal- something like "the power of motivation and commitment to a goal". Contact the principal and discuss what it is you want to show- and let them know it's free of charge. Afterwords hand out fliers on where and when your classes are. Now's a great time 'cuz Kung Fu Panda is releasing on DVD so the interest level should be high.

[packard]

I would look at the content of your web site again and make it a little easier to navigate.

You may wish to look at the way it is written and how it comes across. Put you feet in the shoes of some one who knows nothing about martial arts and then re-read your content. I understood everything, but a new reader may be put off by terminology and content.

Try google ad words as a way of advertsiing on the net as well - may get a few more clicks.

P

ps our paths crossed in a park in Taiwan about ten years ago. I was travelling with a freinds, met you and another guy and we sparred some. Small world!!

P

[SimonM]

My school:

Yellow Pages Ad
Signs in front of the school
Webpage
Youtube channel
Facebook account
Participation in forms (much more prevalent in the 1990's - much less so now, boxing, kickboxing, jiujitsu and (most recently) some low-level amateur mma events.

[xcakid]

Believe or not our school just has a website and a youtube page. We get 80-90% of our sign ups from that.

Small ad on yellow pages. I don't think we get anything from that.

The other 10-20% are just walk ins.

I believe our enrollment has been steady at around 80-90students. 50/50 mix of kids an adults. This has been steady for 2yrs now.

[ktkungfu]

Karate contest boxes

this what ussd shaolin kempo schools use(they have 150 dojos plus) bailey total fitness, golds gym, 24 fitness use to bring people in.

By 30 boxes and place them everywhere. Can't sign someone up if they dont stop in the dojo!

[SimonM]

That's actually how I first came to my first dojo. Won a contest through the children's museum for a month of free lessons.

[Tainan Mantis]

ps our paths crossed in a park in Taiwan about ten years ago. I was travelling with a freinds, met you and another guy and we sparred some. Small world!!

I think it was Neil?
I recall you had the wicked right eye poke.

I have tried to make this site as user friendly as possible

http://www.thekungfugym.com/

It still needs a lot of work, I try and change or make it better every few days.

ktkungfu,
I don't know exactly what a karate contest box is.

A contest for what?

[Mas Judt]

Answer this question: Who are you selling to? What are you selling that they would want?

Then talk about it in a way that is meaningful to them.

[David Jamieson]

Yes, I know it is somehow a scam, but I don't know how it works.

Some people must sit and read every craig's ad in every city and send out these poorly worded misspelled con letters all day long.


yes, those "some people" are known collectively as the Nigerians. :)

[packard]

Well remembered, it was neil. For every eye poke, I seem to remember your very fast turning kick to my ribs ....OUCH!

Glad all is well and good luck with the school.

I'll PM you my web site to have a look at.

P

[gwa sow]

karate box= fill out the paper and drop in a box to win a contract for class. ballies la fitness etc has them also. usually at or by cash register of restaurants and kwickie marts and stuff.

[SimonM]

karate box= fill out the paper and drop in a box to win a contract for class. ballies la fitness etc has them also. usually at or by cash register of restaurants and kwickie marts and stuff.

Or a children's museum. ;)

[peace&love]

My former Sifu did the free classes in a certain amount of time via the info boxes and Chinese restaurants, etc. We never had much look with it though. I believe the placement of such things is important. Most of stuff like that is geared towards kids and I don't know if you want to teach children or not. Most of the kung fu schools in the Nashville area teach those 13 years old and up. Therefore, the CMA schools in Nashville are much smalled that TKD, etc.

You may want to set up demos at local schools whether it be self defense or Chinese/Taiwanese culture. Many schools enjoy having such presentations when they can incorporate geography, history, and other disciplines. They also like it when such presentations are free. You may wish to contact some local geography teachers and principals and look into that. Once again, that would be if you are looking to teach children.

It seems recruiting adult students is quite tough. I can't offer much insight on that unfortunately. I wish you the best of luck in Tampa. I have family in FL and we may visit St. Pete again next summer. If so, I may look you up. Take care.

[Tainan Mantis]

peace&love,
I will be in Nashville for a seminar middle of December.

Thanks for the tips on the karate box all.

My school is outdoors and at night, so it might be a little freaky for kids.

All my students are adults.

[Mr Punch]

My school is outdoors and at night, so it might be a little freaky for kids...It has somewhere to bring them 'in' to?

Also, I think you could do with making more of a distinction on your website for training for people who want SD, people who want ring (if you teach sports-oriented stuff), and people who want trad fu. There may really be no difference to you in what you actually teach (though I hope there is!) but there's certainly a difference to the market.

[Mr Punch]

Also, you could try to stear clear of bullsh!t...


Your first class will introduce you to our method of stretching open the joints and lengthening the tendons.


Tendon length is determined by genetic predisposition, and has not been shown to either increase or decrease in response to environment...

Just a thought...

[TenTigers]

karate box= fill out the paper and drop in a box to win a contract for class. ballies la fitness etc has them also. usually at or by cash register of restaurants and kwickie marts and stuff.

lead boxes work-you need to constantly be on top of them, maintain them, call the leads, follow up.
Kids fill them out, mostly teens, and some adults.
Brace yourself for the usual, Jack Meoff, Buster Hymen, Di(k Hurtz, Seymor Hynee,etc.

Oh, and the people who fill them out, even though they live way outside the area, some even out of state-like they're here on vacation, and filled out a lead box-what are they thinking?

[GreenCloudCLF]

lead boxes work-you need to constantly be on top of them, maintain them, call the leads, follow up.
Kids fill them out, mostly teens, and some adults.
Brace yourself for the usual, Jack Meoff, Buster Hymen, Di(k Hurtz, Seymor Hynee,etc.

Oh, and the people who fill them out, even though they live way outside the area, some even out of state-like they're here on vacation, and filled out a lead box-what are they thinking?

The forms I have gotten out of lead boxes are hysterical. I had one that said "pen1s" for each line. I thought that was the best one, no creativity at all.

[Tainan Mantis]

It has somewhere to bring them 'in' to?



There is a covered area in case it rains, but it is still outdoors.

I will reexamine the distinction aspect. I was trying to design something that would have appealed to myself when I first started out.



lengthening the tendons.

Thanks for pointing that out.
That is from my translation of common chinese sayings.

In those old books and how they talk there is not a solid distinction between ligaments, tendons and muscles when refering to flexibilty.

I used a chinese figure of speech translated into English.

Just trying to mean become more flexible but my brain is thinking in Chinese.

[David Jamieson]

Do demos with scantily clad sexy woman that can really kick ass!

Your school will be filled with pre-pubescent and post-pubescent lads in a very short time.

also, men with prurient thoughts and woman who now realize they too can be sexy through kungfu.

lets face it, sex sells. Be creative and reach into the soul of people, more often than not, there will be genitals there. :p

[Yum Cha]

Supply of teachers exceeds demand for teachers
- every good student wants to add to their development by becoming a teacher.
- there is little or no barrier to entry into the industry as a teacher.
- competition makes it very difficult to make a proper living teaching.

So, doom and gloom? Not hardly.
- Promotion - many methods - but promotion without a unique selling proposition (USP) or major benefit statement is wasted money, too much noise in the market.
- Niche marketing lessons - pick a niche and start there: Kids, weight loss, fighting sklls, self-defence, extreme sport, spiritual alignment, traditional, informal, etc, whatever floats your boat and plays to your strengths.

Clarify your USP, make a concise benefit statement, identify your target market, and then focus your promotion on that segment.

Commercial martial arts is no different than any other commercial activity, with the exception of the product.

You've received lots of ideas of how to promote, but not much comment on what to promote, I hope this has inspired you to think about your message.

Good luck.

[Mr Punch]

I will reexamine the distinction aspect. I was trying to design something that would have appealed to myself when I first started out.I've designed a few websites contents for different market's appeal now and it's just a question of being really anal and strictly categorizing what you're selling. Of course, there will be considerable overlap.


Thanks for pointing that out.
That is from my translation of common chinese sayings.I thought that might be the case, but even then, some Westerners swear that this kind of thing really does refer to tendons. Anyway, thanks for not chewing me out about it: I realized later my post sounded really snotty! :D

[Lucas]

Be creative and reach into the soul of people, more often than not, there will be genitals there. :p

LOL, if i felt like doin it i would sig that, just cuz its so true.

[Oso]

lets face it, sex sells. Be creative and reach into the soul of people, more often than not, there will be genitals there. :p

nice! love it!

[Oso]

LOL, if i felt like doin it i would sig that, just cuz its so true.

lazy bastaard:cool:

[ktkungfu]

Hey did you try out the contest boxes?

[TenTigers]

ok, here's something I'm trying. It's a little extreme-at least for me, but..

about three weeks before christmas, I got the idea to make up these flyers and go house to house in my neighborhood and stuff mailboxes-which btw isn't the legal method I found out..oops.
The flyers basically said, $200.00 off (huge bold type) your regular membership!
for a limited time only (your school here) is offering over two hundred dollars off their regular membership.
Includes-one month free unlimited training-six days a week,valued at $138.00
free Ten Tigers Kung-Fu Uniform-valued at $65.00
free Ten Tigers Training Log and workbook-10.00
forearm pads for teens and adults-12.00
word this any way you seem fit.
I put an expiration date of x-mas eve, and "class space is limited-enroll now" so there was a sense of ugency.

I figure it this way:
a student on my floor doesn't cost me anything-the rent is the rent.
my uniforms at cost are about 20.00
notebook costs me maybe 4.00
forearm pads cost me about 5.00
so for under thirty dollars per student, I make over $1500.00
not including test fees, and whatever they buy from the pro shop.

How's it working?
Well, the next day, I already got a call!
ok, it was from a lady threatening me that she would call the cops if I ever put anything in her mailbox...
BUT..I have six intros lined up for today.
I know the deadline is over, so I will make up a new flyer, and most likely go with door hangers rather than stuffing mailboxes.

I usually don't give things away, as I am a Kung-Fu school, not a discount McDojo, but I want to boost enrollment quickly,so I can move to a better location. So I got creative.
I also targeted my market-blue-collar, well maintained homes, often newly renovated, well landscaped-christmas lights (usually kids) and items such as swing sets in the yard, basketball hoops, bicycles,sporty cars, minivans and suv's.
-rather than run-down, illegal apartments, renters,for sale signs,or old sedans-which if they are run-down, means they cannot afford lessons, and if they are well maintained, they are senior citizens.(they will get my tai chi flyer!)

[BoulderDawg]

but the biggest spike that I can remember at my Sifu's mantis school was after he bought an ad at a local movie theatre. It was nothing more than a slide (posed photograph of a bunch of students working out) and the basic info that you'd put on a flier. This ran with a bunch of other similar slides for small businesses prior to the reels being turned on in the theatre. I believed he was at around 50 students prior to the slide- and after a couple of months of running it- he topped at about 110 students.

That's a pretty good idea. You're going to be aiming at a great target audience and those inserts are not that expensive.

[BruceSteveRoy]

my sifu had a referral system. the student with the most referrals in a given time period got a free one hour private lesson with sifu.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I usually don't give things away, as I am a Kung-Fu school, not a discount McDojo, but I want to boost enrollment quickly,so I can move to a better location. So I got creative.
I also targeted my market-blue-collar, well maintained homes, often newly renovated, well landscaped-christmas lights (usually kids) and items such as swing sets in the yard, basketball hoops, bicycles,sporty cars, minivans and suv's.


Sir, I really don't understand the logic in that statement. Can you please elaborate? What is your definition of a "McDojo" and then what would it be for a 'discount McDojo?'

And then what does 'giving things away' have to do with either one of them?

I assume the term McDojo has reference to what is being taught at a school (if may have other meanings as well, but I would believe that, that one is most pertinent, no?)

If that is the case, giving something away - it sounds like 'marketing'. What would marketing have to do with what is being taught? If giving away a Free Uniform would get more students into your school - would that be bad, or make you a McDojo?

I don't understand the logic behind your comments.

BTW, there are 50 better marketing techniques than stuffing people's mailboxes (obviously the legal ramifications as well) - why do something so laborious and inefficient? Door hangers are extremely inefficient as well. You'd be better off getting some business card or 3" X 4" cards printed (about $200 for 5,000 if you know where to shop) and committ to handing out 25 each day - person to person- and engage people yourself? YOU can be the flyer or the ad - let YOU speak for your school.

Face it, if an instructor can't talk to people (potential students) and get them excited enough to come in for a class (better not make it a free class, otherwise you might be a McDojo!!! :D)...then how good is the instructor? A fancy or compelling ad might bring them in...but what then?

Instructors/school owners need to learn to BECOME THEIR PRODUCT. YOU are YOUR PRODUCT. Not a picture of some kid kicking in an ad. Go out and SELL your lessons. SELL your school. Wait scratch that...SELL yourself first, on what it is you do. Then, when you've convinced yourself how valuable it is...THEN you can go out and convince other people that what you do has value. Not before.

TenTigers - you have the right idea as far as hitting the correct demographics. My advice would be to hit them YOURSELF. You're flyer is not going to do a better job than you. And if it does, than that is a whole 'nother story.

Peace in the New Year!

[Reverend Tap]

You'd be better off getting some business card or 3" X 4" cards printed (about $200 for 5,000 if you know where to shop)
You can do it much cheaper than that, if you have a decent home printer. They're obviously never quite as good as the professionally printed ones (and you can't do embossing or effects), but they're making some surprisingly good print-at-home business card sheets these days (including some that are specifically made to punch out without showing that they were punched out). I'm actually in the process of getting those put together for my school. Doing the page formatting manually for those is a pain, but it's better than shelling out the big bucks IMO.

[Tainan Mantis]

forearm pads cost me about 5.00




Sounds like some good ideas there.

Could you please tell me where you get forearm pads for 5.00?

I am not really much into stopping people on the street and dragging them into a sales conversation.

I lived in Taiwan for 16 years and there were some Western religous groups there that would always try and drag you into a conversation for the purpose of joining there group.

Left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth towards approaching strangers on the street and trying to sell me to them.

[TenTigers]

I don't think LamaPaiSifu meant dragging someone into a conversation per se.
As dedicated Martial artists, we seem to naturally want to talk about MA. No matter what the conversation, we manage to steer it to being about MA, because we believe in it so much, and it defines who we are. By having a stack of VIP cards with you, it is very natural to find yourself in a conversation with someone and then yuo can offer them a guest pass.
As far as MA supplies, open up a wholesale account with a MA distributor. These guys are pretty good, I hear http://www.martialartsmart.net/Sparring_Gear.html (shamefull plug)

[Oso]

www.iprint.com

generally cheap and if you sign up, they send you an email about twice a week on the current specials: usually 25% or better off.

Their online tools are a bit better than doing it on your own computer but they are a little glitchy...I've had my latest business card printed through them as well as stamps and some magnet business cards. (which have seen zero return)

[Oso]

Shifu(Kevin), martialartsmart.com isn't difficult to get a wholesale account with.

As far as the arm pads go: buy smaller than you think, they'll stretch and the size that seems like it will fit will be too bulky.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

You can do it much cheaper than that, if you have a decent home printer. They're obviously never quite as good as the professionally printed ones (and you can't do embossing or effects), but they're making some surprisingly good print-at-home business card sheets these days (including some that are specifically made to punch out without showing that they were punched out). I'm actually in the process of getting those put together for my school. Doing the page formatting manually for those is a pain, but it's better than shelling out the big bucks IMO.

I don't think you can.

Try pricing out 5,000 oversized biz cards (3"X4"). If you buy the pre-cut printouts, they are usually $9.99-$29.99 for 200-500 of them (10-50 sheets) - plus they just look like cheap **** when you hand them out - everyone knows you printed them up yourself. And then, to print up 5000 of them, you'd need quite a lot of ink, probably have to replace a standard inkjet printer's ink, 10 times at a minimum. It just just doesn't make dollars and sense at all.

Not to mention the time it takes to separate them and the fact that you're only printing on one side.

You can get 5,000 4/4 (four color, both sides with lamination) and have them look amazing for $200-$250. I get them for less than $200, but that's my secret!!! LOL

You can also get 5,000 full color double size business cards for $90-$125 each if you know where to look. You can't even buy the paper yourself for that cheap! And forget about the ink and the separating paper!!

So actually, it's not really economical to do it this way. I will share one site with you, although I can get it much cheaper than this one. You'd be surprised at what deals you can find with little diligence. Just tell them I send you!
www.printingdojo.com

They do awesome work, some of their stock cards are cute, but I always do my own. But I'm have become very skilled with Graphics and Design. If you are not, don't monkey-rig it on your own. Get a professional or a student well versed to help you.

Peace

[taai gihk yahn]

the thing to consider, IMPE, in all business ventures, is what is your time worth? for example, if my time is hypothetically worth on the average $50 / hr., then I have to factor that into everything I spend time doing; if it would cost me $500 to have someone else do a project that would take me 10 hrs. to do myself plus I have to pay for materials, then it's totally worth having that project outsourced;

not only to consider time spent doing something, but also recovery time: if you are trying to print up cards yourself, and if you want them to look professional, let's be honest: you will expend a higher than average amount of energy because of all the little frustrations that keep coming up: do-overs, paper jams, etc., plus the fact that they will not look as good as a professional job; not only will you have to spend more time recovering from that energy expenditure, it will impact on your energy level when you are teaching class later that day

if one is going to run a business, run it well - don't skimp on details or spend time on things that will drain your energy for limited return: you want to look and be at your best for the important things, such as teaching class and interacting with potential students

BTW, I agree w/Mike - you are your product - your non-verbal message is "if you study w/me, you will look / move / have the same energy level as I do" - if you look bad, have poor energy, etc., then you will not attract people who want to look good and have a good energy level (and are usually successful individuals in their own right, meaning that they can afford classes for themselves and their families); think about how the teachers and students reflect each other in schools: out of shape / low energy / unkempt teachers do not attract students who are at a "higher" level; the sort of people who "look up" to that sort of teacher will be even more out of shape / unkempt than they are...

so, if one honestly believes that what one practices has positively impacted one's life, then how hard is it to "sell" it to someone else?

[ktkungfu]

ok, here's something I'm trying. It's a little extreme-at least for me, but..

about three weeks before christmas, I got the idea to make up these flyers and go house to house in my neighborhood and stuff mailboxes-which btw isn't the legal method I found out..oops.
The flyers basically said, $200.00 off (huge bold type) your regular membership!
for a limited time only (your school here) is offering over two hundred dollars off their regular membership.
Includes-one month free unlimited training-six days a week,valued at $138.00
free Ten Tigers Kung-Fu Uniform-valued at $65.00
free Ten Tigers Training Log and workbook-10.00
forearm pads for teens and adults-12.00
word this any way you seem fit.
I put an expiration date of x-mas eve, and "class space is limited-enroll now" so there was a sense of ugency.

I figure it this way:
a student on my floor doesn't cost me anything-the rent is the rent.
my uniforms at cost are about 20.00
notebook costs me maybe 4.00
forearm pads cost me about 5.00
so for under thirty dollars per student, I make over $1500.00
not including test fees, and whatever they buy from the pro shop.

How's it working?
Well, the next day, I already got a call!
ok, it was from a lady threatening me that she would call the cops if I ever put anything in her mailbox...
BUT..I have six intros lined up for today.
I know the deadline is over, so I will make up a new flyer, and most likely go with door hangers rather than stuffing mailboxes.

I usually don't give things away, as I am a Kung-Fu school, not a discount McDojo, but I want to boost enrollment quickly,so I can move to a better location. So I got creative.
I also targeted my market-blue-collar, well maintained homes, often newly renovated, well landscaped-christmas lights (usually kids) and items such as swing sets in the yard, basketball hoops, bicycles,sporty cars, minivans and suv's.
-rather than run-down, illegal apartments, renters,for sale signs,or old sedans-which if they are run-down, means they cannot afford lessons, and if they are well maintained, they are senior citizens.(they will get my tai chi flyer!)


WOW! Flyers never did it for me at ussd,I'm impressed! CAn you put your flyer up?

[ktkungfu]

Here's a contest boxes web sites.

http://www.displays2go.com/product.asp?ID=3091
Only $1.70 per box when you order 25! That's a real good deal. The ones I had from ussd were $20 a box and plastic and would break, get stolen. So very costly. Plus local businesses want to help a small business not a chain where all the money goes to the top.

The best places for boxes were restaurants, ice cream shops. Try and get the boxes on the counter and talk to the manager and employees every week! Ask them how business going ? Ask if their kids would to take karate or them? Give them a free week or two. Even if they don't sign up they will tell everybody who ask about your box that your a good guy not some hard salesman charging $200 a month. Give them a good discount. No one wants to help a guy they don't know! Food for thought.

[ktkungfu]

Here's another one.

http://www.affordablepackagingproducts.com/bb1002-contest-boxes-detail.htm

$1.99 each for a bundle of 50. $100 is nothing for 50 contest boxes. At ussd $100 would only buy you 5 boxes!

[BoulderDawg]

Are you talking about a box in like a store somewhere that would say "Register here for a chance to win a month's membership"?

I've never cared for that. Several problems, It's a little misleading since everyone is going to win, also many people simply don't want to give out their private information and finally the work put into tracking down those leads are not worth it.

As I've said I think the insert at the movie theatre was a good idea.....also, it's nice to have a good yellow pages ad. It's also important that your location (or a sign leading to your location) is clearly visable from the street. However I guess the most important thing is to have good front desk people who can sell. All the advertising in the world does no good if you get the people in and they are met by someone who can't sell the program.

[ktkungfu]

Are you talking about a box in like a store somewhere that would say "Register here for a chance to win a month's membership"?

I've never cared for that. Several problems, It's a little misleading since everyone is going to win, also many people simply don't want to give out their private information and finally the work put into tracking down those leads are not worth it.


As I've said I think the insert at the movie theatre was a good idea.....also, it's nice to have a good yellow pages ad. It's also important that your location (or a sign leading to your location) is clearly visable from the street. However I guess the most important thing is to have good front desk people who can sell. All the advertising in the world does no good if you get the people in and they are met by someone who can't sell the program.


Not worth it? It cost you nothing to place boxes! To place an add cost hundreds of dollars and no one may sign up or see it. Will the paper give your money back for your add? Track them down? leave a message and move on to the next lead. You get 30-50 a week.
hundreds of dollars


It is worth it if you work it and not let some 20 year old do it. Put out 30 boxes. Takes 3 weeks. And check them every 4 days. talk to the employees managers and get students and referrals.
Ussd does this and they Charge $250 a month! The biggest problem I had was people would not sign up with ussd because of the high prices. If you offer a affordable program you will do fine.

Have you tried the contest boxes?

[Oso]

let's face it...commercially successful schools rely on modern marketing, based on data about how the average human mind works, to keep reeling in the new customer. As with regular gyms/health clubs they count on the contract for residual income (the length of which varies by state but you can count on 3 months of income from most every person that signs a contract) as a high percentage of their customers fall by the wayside within the first 3 months. Thus the need for salesmanship and a constant drive to be out their promoting your product.

This doesn't mean that every school has a 'mcdojo' program of instruction or that a few students won't stick it out and be pretty good. But, the number of students who make it 5 years down the road is a very low percentage of the ones that start.

i honestly don't think it is any different for mma schools or boxing gyms or jujitsu schools...it's just human nature and if you are going to sell something, anything, to people you must follow the rules.

[Reverend Tap]

Okay, got it, home-print business cards aren't economical on more than a small scale. A couple quibbles/points, though.

I'm not actually teaching or in charge of a school. I'm a freelance graphic designer, so I work with my sifu on advertising stuff rather often. So yeah, no worries on being able to do the designing on my own, and actually given my current level of experience working in the field, a lot of the little frustrations wind up being good learning moments for me.

Also, I've seen quite a number of home-printed business cards that looked professionally printed (or at least near enough that the average-guy-on-the-street can't tell). They won't be laminated or have special printing effects on them, but some of the better home printers (such as the one I've got) do a surprisingly good job if you're just looking for basic cards, even double-sided.

I'll show my sifu that link, though. Thanks for that.

[BoulderDawg]

I think each person/business has their own approach to business cards. Personally I like to keep mind as simple as possible. I leave plenty of room on it to write...I find it gives them that personal touch.

It's funny, a few years back I was doing some consulting for a company that was making light fixtures. By the time I'd been on the job a week I knew there was no hope for this company. They were thousands in debt and didn't have the money to meet payroll. Anyway, one bill I noticed was $2,500 for a thousand envelopes....I did a double take. Here's a company that could not pay it's workers yet they were spending $2.50 for an envelope! The explanation was "We have to keep a professional image"......:D Maybe, but my decision to do business with any company is not going to be dependant on the quality of their stationary or their fancy business cards!:D

Any I left three weeks later...would not have stayed that long but I was paid in advance....they closed the doors a week after I left.

[ktkungfu]

Okay, got it, home-print business cards aren't economical on more than a small scale. A couple quibbles/points, though.

I'm not actually teaching or in charge of a school. I'm a freelance graphic designer, so I work with my sifu on advertising stuff rather often. So yeah, no worries on being able to do the designing on my own, and actually given my current level of experience working in the field, a lot of the little frustrations wind up being good learning moments for me.

Also, I've seen quite a number of home-printed business cards that looked professionally printed (or at least near enough that the average-guy-on-the-street can't tell). They won't be laminated or have special printing effects on them, but some of the better home printers (such as the one I've got) do a surprisingly good job if you're just looking for basic cards, even double-sided.

I'll show my sifu that link, though. Thanks for that.


business cards are good to hand out, boxes work better for more leads. Hand out cards as set up boxes as go to stores. Keep a stack in your car , wallet, school.

http://www.leadbox.com/leadbox.cfm?page=catFrame&typeID=3

They also have martial arts boxes already made for $6

[Tainan Mantis]

I don't think LamaPaiSifu meant dragging someone into a conversation per se.
As dedicated Martial artists, we seem to naturally want to talk about MA.



OK, That sounds good.
I do that all the time.


As far as MA supplies, open up a wholesale account with a MA distributor. These guys are pretty good, I hear http://www.martialartsmart.net/Sparring_Gear.html (shamefull plug)

Thanks for that.

I agree with what Oso said on the modern American marketing mind set and all.
It is not easy to get a lot of adults from what I can see in my admittedly limited perspective.

That is why I think it is good, at least for me, to have a strong program for kids.

[ktkungfu]

http://brochureholders4u.com/productcart/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=87

http://www.braesidedisplays.com/Details.cfm?Category=14&secondary=69&ProdID=25

http://www.storefixture.com/CB1800.htm

[BoulderDawg]

That is why I think it is good, at least for me, to have a strong program for kids.

There are advantages to kid's program. They are simply more profitable. It takes less space and there are less chance of injury from over agressive sparring and such. Also, I think the kids are more likely to hang with the program. Finally, you don't have to have your best sifu or instructor leading the class. However it would be nice to find someone who's had experience with kids.

However I would not mix my kids class and adult classes no matter how good the student is. I would also not schedule an adult class right after a kids class.

My school does not have a kids program period. We have a couple of students under 13 who are there with their parent but thats about it.

[WinterPalm]

Well, the next day, I already got a call!
ok, it was from a lady threatening me that she would call the cops if I ever put anything in her mailbox...



Wait a minute...you put a flyer in her mailbox and she could legally sue you?
Man, where I live, a day doesn't go by without seeing McDonald's, Burger King, and Wal-Mart junk in the mail.

[BoulderDawg]

Wait a minute...you put a flyer in her mailbox and she could legally sue you?
Man, where I live, a day doesn't go by without seeing McDonald's, Burger King, and Wal-Mart junk in the mail.


You can mail flyers but legally you can't go around placing them in peoples mailboxes. However most people won't even notice. For example I just take my mail flyers and throw them away without looking at them.

If you really want to go that route jusy get some kid to go around and put them on doors knobs. I think all that does more harm than good in my opinion but who knows.

[WinterPalm]

You can mail flyers but legally you can't go around placing them in peoples mailboxes. However most people won't even notice. For example I just take my mail flyers and throw them away without looking at them.

If you really want to go that route jusy get some kid to go around and put them on doors knobs. I think all that does more harm than good in my opinion but who knows.

Wow, that doesn't make any sense to me...

[Lucas]

its the whole 'federal crime to tamper with others mail' is where it stems. people think if you open their mailbox that you are messing with their mail.

everyone just over reacts in the states.

[Oso]

I could be wrong but i've always been under the impression that once you install a mailbox it technically becomes property of the US Mail Service...that way they can go after you if the homeowner doesn't...in either case it's basically illegal to go into another persons mailbox.

the people that **** me off are the ones who put flyers under your windshield wiper...makes me want to chase them across the parking lot screaming....

[Lucas]

I could be wrong but i've always been under the impression that once you install a mailbox it technically becomes property of the US Mail Service...that way they can go after you if the homeowner doesn't...in either case it's basically illegal to go into another persons mailbox.

the people that **** me off are the ones who put flyers under your windshield wiper...makes me want to chase them across the parking lot screaming....

lol, the wiper vermin.

[Tainan Mantis]

I would also not schedule an adult class right after a kids class.



Why is that?
Is there some incident that you have seen happen?
Or is it just the residual kids waiting for their parents to come and pick them up after class getting in the way of the adults?

[sha0lin1]

[QUOTE=ktkungfu;904143]Not worth it? It cost you nothing to place boxes! To place an add cost hundreds of dollars and no one may sign up or see it. Will the paper give your money back for your add? Track them down? leave a message and move on to the next lead. You get 30-50 a week.
hundreds of dollars


Yes this is true, I recently took out an ad which cost $225.00 and got three phone calls and no one on the floor to try the class. Most of the ads I have done have honestly resulted in very few people coming through the door. Most everyone comes in based on web searches they have done. The box thing always seemed annoying to me but now after I think about it I may try it.

[TenTigers]

not sure if I mentioned this or not, but years back I took out an ad with Clipper Magazine. The week it comes out, I get a phone call. I ask how they found out about us, and they said, "Clipper." So, I book the intro class, and they are a no show.
Of course, I run the ad again next month.
Same thing happens. I get a few calls, They all said they saw the ad, I book the intro, and no-show.
Me, being not too bright, went on like this for two more months before it hit me.
These guys were all from Clipper, same routine-and I spoke to others and they had the same experience.
Caveat emptor

[Tainan Mantis]

They all said they saw the ad, I book the intro, and no-show.


I will remember this story, thanks for posting it.

But, do you call back after a booking?
If they call on Monday and book for Tuesday do you call back on Tuesday to reconfirm?

[feimantis]

For anyone interested I saw some talk of Business cards. gotprint.com does 5,000 full color both sides for under $100 including shipping.

[Reverend Tap]

For anyone interested I saw some talk of Business cards. gotprint.com does 5,000 full color both sides for under $100 including shipping.

:eek: Wow. Good find. I'll be talking to my sifu about that.

[feimantis]

I wanted to see if anyone has had similar experiences on this.

From my short 5 years experience, it seems that referral sign ups take the least amount of salesmanship. All the referrals I have had come into my school and seem to be ready to sign up.

If I get a call from an ad, it seems that I need to have a very good phone presentation to get them in the door ( or I will lose them to the abyss of butchered sales, my abyss is HUGE ) , and then a good intro presentation to have them sign up and give the class a chance.

My skills are better suited for doing things in person ( the phone skills needs some work ) , so I have begun to rely heavily on going to events in person and talking to people, and creating an incentive program with the kids to encourage them to have a friend show up on bring a friend day, or just having them have a friend sign up in general. Talking to people seemed like a waste of time at first, but lately I have been getting more and more people calling to sign up that say they had seen and spoken to me months ago.

Again these sign ups are so much easier for me then a cold sale. I live in a small city so ends up I run into people very often that have spoken to me before.

I have had very little success with business cards, brochures, radio ( terrible ), T.V., and flyers.

Good success with going to public events, a free kids class at a special location, website ( which is not impressive ), and the location of my school.

[xcakid]

......have a friend show up on bring a friend day, or just having them have a friend sign up in general.

We actually had a friends and family day at our school. This was done more so in trying to get friends and family to try out a class and have fun. I think my sifu used the marketing aspect of it as secondary, but I can see how it can be good for that.


Here's a vid of how the day went.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gwbjXHdLEo