Hey remember when Samurai Jack(?) did the 20 rep deadlift program?

[IronFist]

Based on the 20 rep squat program?

I was reading this artciel and was reminded of that.

go to page 3:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/peary_raders_oldschool_training

[sanjuro_ronin]

I can see the 20 reps squat program working, I have done it and it works like a charm as a matter of fact, BUT, squats tend to be safer than DL, if done in a power rack liek you are suppose to do them.
Getting to failure like that on whiel doing DL?
I don't know about that...

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i agree - im actually about to start a 20 rep squat cycle in a week or so. deads though - that just sounds terrifying.

[IronFist]

Yeah I think it's nuts, too. I remember telling SJ that when he was doing it (I think it was SJ... it could have been Toby or something tho), too.

I just posted that cuz it reminded me of his program.

[Suntzu]

i can't make it past the 1st 20 rep squat workout..... it sux too much.... i am puss :(

[Pork Chop]

I'm confused.
How is a 20 rep program of deadlifts more dangerous than a 20 rep program of squats?
I'm presuming back squats, yes?
With deadlifts, if you fail, you just let go, no?
Yeah, your hands will be cramping or you might peel off a callous and start bleeding; but it's a lot easier to bail than with squats - even in a rack.
I haven't yet found a rack with a nice setting for the safety bar that's only a couple inches from the bottom of my squat so maybe I'm the oddball.

Been doing a lot of dumbbell deadlifts lately - they're kinda like a squat/deadlift hybrid as the range of motion is much more like a typical squat, but the weight isn't sitting on my upper back. The nicest thing is that I don't bang my shins like I usually do doing deads. I'd definitely recommend that as a way to survive a 20 rep program.

In fact the superset I was doing last night had 20 reps of that in it:
10 T-pushups each arm (alternating) - total 20
20 dumbbell deadlifts
20 standing dumbbell military press
10 dumbbell swings each arm - total 20
Ran through it 3 times but it hurt. As my endurance gets better I'm going to try to add dumbbell burpees and lunges.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

I'm confused.
it's a lot easier to bail than with squats - even in a rack.


that's largely what makes high rep deads more dangerous. since the lifter feels safer they are more likely to continue in bad form. also, for me personally, its actually easier to keep good squatting form in exhausted staes. it just feels like a more natural position to be bearing weight, but that's probably a personal thing. and since i have a good deal of weight on my back, once my form starts breaking down too badly i know its time to rack it. with deads on the other hand, i find that im much more likely to stubbronly try to push through the set even though i know my form is breaking down.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

. . . also bailing on squats doesnt have to be that bad unless something just completely gives out (which can happen on bench as well). with and without spotters i've had to set the bar back on the pins my share of times without any problem. also, if your squatting out of the rack you can always dump the bar if you have to. it sucks if you dont have bumpers plates, its even worse if your using a really nice squat bar, but its better than getting stapled.

[Toby]

I haven't yet found a rack with a nice setting for the safety bar that's only a couple inches from the bottom of my squat so maybe I'm the oddball.I squat in a full power rack. The safety bar has increments of a couple of inches from above full height down to below powerlifting-style low height so there's always a suitable position. Don't you have power racks where you lift? I understand that fixed squat racks don't have as flexible an arrangement.

[Pork Chop]

Places I work out at have squat racks with adjustable safety bars but they only go up about waist-high, not the full height of the rack.
I'll look around to see if I can find one like that.


I guess I can see improper form making it harder & more dangerous; but for me it's just as easy to have bad form doing back squats.


Personally, I kinda hate doing back sqats.
I have a lot of balance issues, and am usually more worried about falling over or doing a good morning than I am about the actual weight.
It's not a satisfying exercise and I'm always worried that I'm doing it wrong.
I am a somewhat rare case though - as I had hand eye coordination & balance problems as a kid that required physical therapy. Even with that, I've never made it to "normal". But all of that goes back to having the gimp right leg.

At least with dumbbell deads (suitcase squat?) I can handle the weight in such a way that feels more comfortable & balanced.

[sanjuro_ronin]

that's largely what makes high rep deads more dangerous. since the lifter feels safer they are more likely to continue in bad form. also, for me personally, its actually easier to keep good squatting form in exhausted staes. it just feels like a more natural position to be bearing weight, but that's probably a personal thing. and since i have a good deal of weight on my back, once my form starts breaking down too badly i know its time to rack it. with deads on the other hand, i find that im much more likely to stubbronly try to push through the set even though i know my form is breaking down.

You got it there.
if you do a squat the right way, you can handle going close to failure, with proper form, much better than DL, its just a fact.