An Overview of VTM Research into Wing Chun

[VTM]

Ving Tsun Museum Public Workshop
Saturday, December 7th, 2008

* Commemoration of VTM's 10th Anniversary

* Session 1 (10a-12p)
- An Overview: Modern Day Wing Chun to the Red Boat Era

* Session 2 (1p-3p)
- An Overview: Red Boat Era to the Southern Shaolin

* Outcomes:
- Understand the complete picture of Wing Chun Evolution
- Recognize the myth and purpose of Wing Chun
- Understand the secret codes hidden within the Wing Chun System
- Understand why there are so many variations of Wing Chun
- Understand the original Wing Chun as compared to modified Wing Chun
- Understand why Wing Chun is not a style of martial art
- Be able to answer the question, "Is Wing Chun a complete system?"

Featuring
Fukien Black Flag Secret Society Wing Chun
Shaolin Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun
Ip Man Wing Chun

There will be hands-on, physical practice as well as lectures.

Saturday, December 7th, 2008 from 10a to 3p.

Contact the VTM @ 937-236-6485 or host@vtmuseum.org for more information, prices, and to register. We can help with lodging, if needed.

[JPinAZ]

This sounds like an interesting, positive workshop! Thanks for the dedication and willingness to research WC throughout the years and share what you have found, I wish I could make it!

[sihing]

IMO you can look at Martial Arts systems/styles in two ways, one system will teach you techniques, "he does this, you do that" type of thinking, the other system will teach you a general idea or concept like "constant forward pressure", "eat his space", "attack his COM". The technique way, IMO, in the long run doesn't work as well for the average guy with limited amounts of time to train, there are too many variables to think about if your technique fails when the other guy did not conform to what you need to make the technique work, plus things happen too fast in a self defense situation to use specific techniques. Conceptual way applies to a wide variety of situations, for example, eating someone's space (crowding them) takes away some of their tools, as most people need space to strike at you. In WC we train at this range so that we can use this advantage in our favor. Attacking COM teaches us to keep the other guy off balance, and to maintain proper distance to utilize what we learn in WC generally. WC also teaches us good body mechanics, how to hit hard, be rooted while we are mobile and a general strategy of attack (defense is built into the attack), things all good fighters need to have. The flaws happen when we humans apply the training, as when the elements of timing, distancing, fear are thrown in, all sorts of problems can come up.

Sometimes in training, we will train some techniques against various types of attacks to bring alive the training from a non contact situation, so the students have a general idea about distance and timing, but the key thing is we are offensive fighters, with the basic idea to hit the opponent into submission, but there are other abilities that kick in when the hitting doesn't go as planned (which is usually the case in SD situations). What I really appreciate about WC is that the training instills the idea of adapting quickly and changing when change is needed. For competitions, fighters will need more technique and a higher intensity level of training, as they are comparing themselves with others that are conditioned and aware of what the other guy's strengths and weakness are. I for one don't feel the need to compete, other's are different. If that is what you want to do, then I would recommend that you don't take up Wing Chun, rather MMA/Boxing/MT may be what you are looking for.

I found a good article about this here, http://redrebelmartialarts.blogspot.com/2008/10/redefining-wing-chun-new-look-at-old.html , from Adam Willis's website.

Good luck with the get together:)

James

[bennyvt]

secret codes in vt. There is always some gimick. But as far as concept vs technique way me learning i think it should be both. Like there is only the punch in vt. Them why do we do anything else. Its the main problem with jeet kun do people need to learn applications to be able to understand how to do it. Once you know what you are doing the concepts are usefull. He you train properly them it will just happen. Eat his horse, how? You need a technique to be able to do that. Applications should be generat and not thought me as the only way but you need them to get it into your head. Its easy to simplify it once you understand it you need the a&b.s to be able to make a sentence.. Just like there are no moves in vt just concepts but with the moves the concepts dont do anything. If you train properly there things should just happen but having a picture me the user makes it easier to learn

[VTM]

On a side notes, the VTM is not a school that teaches regular classes to the public. Benny Meng the curator has his own school, call the MMA of Dayton or Hung Fa Kwoon of Dayton, a separate organization from VTM. They will be glad to have an open mat after the workshop on Sat. Benny Meng and his down line school had hosted MMA and open mat events in the past many times.

[hhe]

Copied from HFY108



Saturday workshop and demo 12/06/08

Saturday we had an excellent workshop and a great demonstration based on the progression of training in the Three Halls of Shaolin. The workshop represented the VTM's current view of Wing Chun's evolution by comparing Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun, Fukien Wing Chun, Chi Sim Weng Chun, and Ip Man Wing Chun and presented 5 primary conclusions:

1. In the many centuries since the destruction of the Southern Shaolin Temple, the original Shaolin Wing Chun system is still well-preserved and intact today.

2. Shaolin Wing Chun is a system based on the Principle of Time Space Energy and the concepts of Heaven Human Earth which makes it both a complete combat system and a personal cultivation system.

3. Shaolin Wing Chun is a representation of Efficiency. Efficiency is not a style or a basic skill set. It is not meant for inexperienced students or to be treated as a style.

4. The original Shaolin Wing Chun, which contains at least the three forms of Siu Nim Tau, Chum Kiu, and Biu Ji include Hung Fa Yi (Red Flag) Wing Chun and Fukien (Black Flag) Eng Chun. Together, these two lineages represent the essence of Southern Shaolin Martial Arts.

5. Shaolin Wing Chun is an expression of Chan Buddhism.

Thanks to everyone that participated in the Demo: Sifu Chango Noaks, Sifu John Lambert, Missy Pruden, and from the Wolf Pack Team - Vincent Meng, Michael Vann, Logan Wang, Taylor Hunt, Tyler Renk, and Gabriella Tarlano.

[stonecrusher69]

IMO you can look at Martial Arts systems/styles in two ways, one system will teach you techniques, "he does this, you do that" type of thinking, the other system will teach you a general idea or concept like "constant forward pressure", "eat his space", "attack his COM". The technique way, IMO, in the long run doesn't work as well for the average guy with limited amounts of time to train, there are too many variables to think about if your technique fails when the other guy did not conform to what you need to make the technique work, plus things happen too fast in a self defense situation to use specific techniques. Conceptual way applies to a wide variety of situations, for example, eating someone's space (crowding them) takes away some of their tools, as most people need space to strike at you. In WC we train at this range so that we can use this advantage in our favor. Attacking COM teaches us to keep the other guy off balance, and to maintain proper distance to utilize what we learn in WC generally. WC also teaches us good body mechanics, how to hit hard, be rooted while we are mobile and a general strategy of attack (defense is built into the attack), things all good fighters need to have. The flaws happen when we humans apply the training, as when the elements of timing, distancing, fear are thrown in, all sorts of problems can come up.

Sometimes in training, we will train some techniques against various types of attacks to bring alive the training from a non contact situation, so the students have a general idea about distance and timing, but the key thing is we are offensive fighters, with the basic idea to hit the opponent into submission, but there are other abilities that kick in when the hitting doesn't go as planned (which is usually the case in SD situations). What I really appreciate about WC is that the training instills the idea of adapting quickly and changing when change is needed. For competitions, fighters will need more technique and a higher intensity level of training, as they are comparing themselves with others that are conditioned and aware of what the other guy's strengths and weakness are. I for one don't feel the need to compete, other's are different. If that is what you want to do, then I would recommend that you don't take up Wing Chun, rather MMA/Boxing/MT may be what you are looking for.

I found a good article about this here, http://redrebelmartialarts.blogspot.com/2008/10/redefining-wing-chun-new-look-at-old.html , from Adam Willis's website.

Good luck with the get together:)

James

That was really good...I think in a nut what you where say (Hope I'm not wrong) is don't play the other guys game.