Taijimantis
11-14-2000, 05:24 PM
I mentioned this in my post "Sad News For Me" I figured it was legitimate enough to warrant its own, so I now open the floor for discussion of the varying history of Northern Praying Mantis.
Traditionally there are four main schools that I have found to be commonly accepted. The School of Seven Star, Tai Chi, Bare or Naked Back, and the Plum Blossom. These schools are popularly thought to have been formed at the end of the Qing Dynasty, on or near the year 1911CE.
The Story of Praying Mantis that we all can agree upon is the one of Jo Si Wong Long adopting the 12 character principles from his observations of a Praying Mantis in combat with a cicada. he later would adopt 17 chuans from already existing Shaolin systems, and incorporate them with footwork inspired by the monkeys in the surrounding jungle. After beating his fellow monk Feng, the System was then found to be formidable.
The common thread of the story also states that Shaolin kept Praying Mantis locked within its walls, secret to the outside world for a century before a Taoist named Sheng Hsiao learned the complete system after challanging and being defeated by a novice, junior, and senior monk. Sheng would be the one to bring Mantis out of Shaolin to the common people. But here it gets slippery...
According to Jon Funk's version of the story Sheng Hsiao only had one disciple, one Li San Chien, aka the Lightning Fist. This begins the Seven Star Line.
However, According to the Tai Chi Praying Mantis history, The second generation began directly from Jo Si himself teaching Ho Chi-Yuan. Hou in turn was the teacher of Hou Chieh who then taught Ma Ch'ian... and so on.
If this is the case, it seems obvious to me that there are two conflicts of the original praying mantis story.
1. Praying Mantis split into its four main schools LONG before 1911CE.
2. If indeed Praying Mantis was kept as a higer form of Kungfu for the Shaolin Monks, then Sheng Hsiao had morethan one disciple.
Brother Mantis 108, has an interesting idea on this and it happens to be one I agree with. He stated to me that our Sigung Chiu Chuk-Kai, had a chosen 12 disciples to carry on the style. Why would it be so unthinkable for Jo Si Wong Long to have had many disciples as well?
My Sifu, being the first of those 12 disciples, told me that the actual Kung Fu aspect of Tai Chi Praying Mantis, is Seven Star.
This could explain why doccuments written by the late grandmaster indicating the lineage of Tai Chi Praying Mantis included both family trees. The story of the Seven Star system and the Tai Chi Mantis system.
However, I am still quite confused as to why there are so many differences. Not to mention the fact that there are still two other versions of this story I have not heard of. Any Plum Blossom, or Bareback Mantis practitioners out there care to give me their version? There has got to be more to this story that I am getting.
Anyone with information on this is urged to post!
Also anyone with information on
Hou Chi-Yuan
Hou Chieh
Ma Chi'an
Liang Shu-Hsiang
Sun Yuan-Ch'ang
Ch'i Shou-Chin
or
Chao Chiu-Chi(Chuk-Kai)
Is likewise encouraged to contact me either here or at
Taiji Mantis@aol.com
I am really hoping some of my Brothers and Sisters of other styles can shed some light on this.
I hope we can get some good converstions going with this one.
My thanks friends.
Namste
Traditionally there are four main schools that I have found to be commonly accepted. The School of Seven Star, Tai Chi, Bare or Naked Back, and the Plum Blossom. These schools are popularly thought to have been formed at the end of the Qing Dynasty, on or near the year 1911CE.
The Story of Praying Mantis that we all can agree upon is the one of Jo Si Wong Long adopting the 12 character principles from his observations of a Praying Mantis in combat with a cicada. he later would adopt 17 chuans from already existing Shaolin systems, and incorporate them with footwork inspired by the monkeys in the surrounding jungle. After beating his fellow monk Feng, the System was then found to be formidable.
The common thread of the story also states that Shaolin kept Praying Mantis locked within its walls, secret to the outside world for a century before a Taoist named Sheng Hsiao learned the complete system after challanging and being defeated by a novice, junior, and senior monk. Sheng would be the one to bring Mantis out of Shaolin to the common people. But here it gets slippery...
According to Jon Funk's version of the story Sheng Hsiao only had one disciple, one Li San Chien, aka the Lightning Fist. This begins the Seven Star Line.
However, According to the Tai Chi Praying Mantis history, The second generation began directly from Jo Si himself teaching Ho Chi-Yuan. Hou in turn was the teacher of Hou Chieh who then taught Ma Ch'ian... and so on.
If this is the case, it seems obvious to me that there are two conflicts of the original praying mantis story.
1. Praying Mantis split into its four main schools LONG before 1911CE.
2. If indeed Praying Mantis was kept as a higer form of Kungfu for the Shaolin Monks, then Sheng Hsiao had morethan one disciple.
Brother Mantis 108, has an interesting idea on this and it happens to be one I agree with. He stated to me that our Sigung Chiu Chuk-Kai, had a chosen 12 disciples to carry on the style. Why would it be so unthinkable for Jo Si Wong Long to have had many disciples as well?
My Sifu, being the first of those 12 disciples, told me that the actual Kung Fu aspect of Tai Chi Praying Mantis, is Seven Star.
This could explain why doccuments written by the late grandmaster indicating the lineage of Tai Chi Praying Mantis included both family trees. The story of the Seven Star system and the Tai Chi Mantis system.
However, I am still quite confused as to why there are so many differences. Not to mention the fact that there are still two other versions of this story I have not heard of. Any Plum Blossom, or Bareback Mantis practitioners out there care to give me their version? There has got to be more to this story that I am getting.
Anyone with information on this is urged to post!
Also anyone with information on
Hou Chi-Yuan
Hou Chieh
Ma Chi'an
Liang Shu-Hsiang
Sun Yuan-Ch'ang
Ch'i Shou-Chin
or
Chao Chiu-Chi(Chuk-Kai)
Is likewise encouraged to contact me either here or at
Taiji Mantis@aol.com
I am really hoping some of my Brothers and Sisters of other styles can shed some light on this.
I hope we can get some good converstions going with this one.
My thanks friends.
Namste