Shaolin Special 2009

[GeneChing]

Our new Shaolin Special is coming at ya this week. Subscriptions (http://www.martialartsmart.net/Kungfu_Magazine.html) are already sent and the newsstand date is this Thursday. We skipped a Shaolin Special for 2008, but we did two in 2007 at the beginning (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=687) and the end (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=729) of the year.

SimonM was kind enough to start a review thread on our TCMedia forum (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=898507), but I'm starting one here too, which I'll merge together in a few months.... or not. ;)

[GeneChing]

Shaolin Special 2009 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=797) (#10 but who's counting ;))

We'll have the cover story live in about a month. We appreciate your support on the newsstands.

amitoufo

[uki]

considering the certain assumptions and theories floating around the grapevines... what would become of all your shaolin special issues if you indeed discovered that in fact all your so called shaolin monks were nothing more than chinese actors saving face and pumping up chinese tourism? a curious question... nothing more. i mean afterall, you do have to believe that there are no absolutes in the probabilities of outcome...

[Songshan]

Our new Shaolin Special is coming at ya this week. Subscriptions (http://www.martialartsmart.net/Kungfu_Magazine.html) are already sent and the newsstand date is this Thursday. We skipped a Shaolin Special for 2008, but we did two in 2007 at the beginning (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=687) and the end (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=729) of the year.

SimonM was kind enough to start a review thread on our TCMedia forum (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=898507), but I'm starting one here too, which I'll merge together in a few months.... or not. ;)

Can't wait to get it. I am sure it will be packed with good articles. As always you and your staff's hard work is truly appreciated in the eyes of some.


considering the certain assumptions and theories floating around the grapevines... what would become of all your shaolin special issues if you indeed discovered that in fact all your so called shaolin monks were nothing more than chinese actors saving face and pumping up chinese tourism? a curious question... nothing more. i mean afterall, you do have to believe that there are no absolutes in the probabilities of outcome...

Well that's just it. They are all "assumptions and theories floating around the grapevines". There are far too many flawed theories and sour vineyards. You cannot compare the skills of these guys to actors. You can play the "what if" game all day but in the end there will be always those that cannot accept the fact modern shaolin is here to stay and spreading. So for all you skeptics, why can't Shaolin Temple complete its turn in the wheel of life and once again re-establish itself??

[uki]

So for all you skeptics, why can't Shaolin Temple complete its turn in the wheel of life and once again re-establish itself??well you first have to have shaolin to turn the wheel of life... the little forest is real, it just has been replanted elsewhere.

[GeneChing]

You know, they'd probably sell better, uki. Seriously, magazines about actors - celeb rags - they're the ones that are still doing great business on the newsstands. And as for the tourist part, even travel mags do better on the newsstands than martial arts mags.

If they're all actors, they're method actors. They face challengers all the time. You can go up to the temple today or any of the 68 private schools and issue a challenge - it'll be answered. Sure, there are definitely showman there - all the demo teams and Shaolin shows are modern wushu players - but the demo teams only represent a small percentage of the population of students at Shaolin (in this issue, we report that at 58,000 full-time students) and those monks in shows are mostly performance monks, if they are monks at all. Many of the shows don't have real monks, only actors like you say. A few of the shows don't even have performers from Shaolin. We've addressed all this here before.

But on a deeper level, if I were to take uki's question seriously, it reflects something even more interesting. If all the monks at Shaolin were just actors, it would be the most phenomenal improve play ever. And it would be about martial arts. Where else in the world does something like that exist? Washington DC maybe? ;) That, on it's own, is fascinating and newsworthy. Think about it.

We all have our roles to play. Here on the forum, I play an administrator. Uki, you play a troll. Hey, it's showtime. Try not to forget your lines this time, ok uki? :p

[uki]

We all have our roles to play. Here on the forum, I play an administrator. Uki, you play a troll. Hey, it's showtime. Try not to forget your lines this time, ok uki?i would like you to know that you command my respect... *digging up the screenplay... again* :)

[Lucas]

We all have our roles to play.

im still trying to remember what mine was. i think i lost it somewhere some time ago. i cant seem to recall.

[GeneChing]

uki, that's almost a sig worthy quote. Thanks. Too bad I don't do sig quotes now. ;)

Lucas, you're the second villain that rushes to attack the hero, between the first villain and the third. Your line is "Arrgh! Owww..." and you bleed a lot. :p

[uki]

im still trying to remember what mine was. i think i lost it somewhere some time ago. i cant seem to recall.it's your que for the improv now...

[uki]

uki, that's almost a sig worthy quote. Thanks. Too bad I don't do sig quotes now. thats okay... my words have already made their signature mark on your soul... in the little forest, we call this... pollination.

[richard sloan]

lmao, how do you suppose they act the Ch'an part.

i suppose all the old pictures and photographic record are just...photoshop? Movie magic?

[richard sloan]

p.s. you don't need to go to China to issue a challenge.

[uki]

challengers are simply insecure individuals.

[uki]

lmao, how do you suppose they act the Ch'an part.practice does make perfect.


i suppose all the old pictures and photographic record are just...photoshop? Movie magic?yep.

[richard sloan]

practice does make perfect.

but how did they know what to practice, if it didn't exist, according to your ignorant statement.



yep.

LOL!!! Photoshop was created when? Next you will tell me we should wear aluminum hats to stop the mind rays.

[SimonM]

He probably will...

This is Uki after all.

BTW: Said this over on the review thread but this was a great issue. One of the best in a long while. And I stand by my opinion that Kung Fu Magazine is, on average, the best martial arts magazine on the newsstands so that's saying something. :D

[GeneChing]

Don't get me wrong. There are definitely 'actors' in monk robes around Shaolin. But not all of them are actors. In fact, it's only a very few. Unfortunately, these are the few that everyone sees. They are the performer monks. There's even a term for this class of monk - biaoyanseng. Most people are only exposed to biaoyanseng because all they know of Shaolin is what they see on TV or at live shows. Even if they go to Shaolin and take a few lessons, unless they have a connection (guanxi), they'll probably get a biaoyanseng. Few schools are willing to invest their top teachers for nibbler tourists that are only taking a few lessons. I'm getting the feeling that this is shifting a little, but not a lot.

There are all sorts of challenges - those of mouth and those of deed. Who is more insecure?

[SimonM]

Everything in China is about who you know.

When I went to Longquan I was able to quickly get access to good swords (rather than the tourist crap most vendors sell) by walking and talking and glad-handing.

Likewise somebody seeking a Shaolin connection would be well advised to walk, to talk and to ask locals for their opinions.

And get a plurality of opinions.

And use that for further research.

China is a great place to be if you can communicate. Therein lies the catch. ;)

[Lucas]

uki, that's almost a sig worthy quote. Thanks. Too bad I don't do sig quotes now. ;)

Lucas, you're the second villain that rushes to attack the hero, between the first villain and the third. Your line is "Arrgh! Owww..." and you bleed a lot. :p

cool, im good at bleeding. im probably a better villain than a hero any ways. but i think i could roll a darn fine vigilante.


"ARRRGHHH!!!!!!......OWWWWW!!!!!"""

Time to retire to my sewer stronghold. i have tea with the rat king down there.

[GeneChing]

Believe it or not, I first learned the fine art of guanxi from Matt Polly (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26966). It's actually a venerated tradition in Chinese culture. I think that's a major part of the problem with westerners studying martial arts, not just at Shaolin, but across the board. They don't understand the culture of guanxi. They interpret it as bribes. To understand it, you need to understand the nature of China. you need to understand why the national symbol is a dragon - a combination of nine different mascot totems. China is an amalgamation of warring tribes. That's quite different than America's system of United States. It's more like feudal war. You can still feel that in the clan systems in martial arts. Guanxi can be interpreted as a way for feuding clans to communicate peacefully. It's all about trade.

[SimonM]

I think you hit on another important aspect of Chinese traditional culture: mercantilism.

Most peasants were traditionally small-hold landowners back in the day. They traded goods locally to merchants (and paid taxes to feudal lords) who in turn traded trans-regionally.

Compare this to Europe where the peasants were mostly serfs - very nearly property of their local feudal lord during the same basic timeframe.

China invented paper money and modern banking. It is a very merchantile place.

It is also, as Gene said, a very clannish place; with clans frequently forming blocs for the purpose of trade. These blocs later expanded into things like the Shanxi Merchant's Guild of the Qing dynasty.

In the hinterlands China is very much unchanged today. The people who live in my wife's hometown can mostly trace their family trees back into the mists of history without leaving that valley!

So when an outsider (not-family / not-community-member) wants to enter into a relationship of trust with somebody the two paths are 1) through reciprocal action - guanxi - which frequently takes on a monetary character and 2) through earning acceptance into the in-community group.

The first is the basis of guanxi in all it's forms from benign flattery, wining and dining all the way to out-right systemic corruption which is presently becoming very problematic in China.

The second is indicated by situations such as brought up in the one article in the most recent issue of the magazine about Dr Yang and the YMAA retreat center.

[uki]

There are all sorts of challenges - those of mouth and those of deed.there is no challenge.

Who is more insecure?those who believe there is...

[David Jamieson]

"accepted" cultural idioms doesn't equate to "good" or even "correct". :p

[SimonM]

Idioms?

You take umbrage at the term "eating bitter"?

I'm sorry but your statement does not follow.

[Songshan]

there is no challenge


....but there is. A challenge doesn't have to be a physical one. A challenge can be a wanted explanantion, justification or even contesting something.

[uki]

....but there is. A challenge doesn't have to be a physical one. A challenge can be a wanted explanantion, justification or even contesting something.yet is that truly a challenge? i see only solutions, not the problem... if you sidestep the problem, you can focus on the solution.

[Kansuke]

I think that's a major part of the problem with westerners studying martial arts, not just at Shaolin, but across the board. They don't understand the culture of guanxi. .



That's a very good point!

[Songshan]

I enjoyed the issue! My favorite articles were the traditional shaolin stance training by Walter Gjergja, the interview of the abbot and the temple & the auto shop (interesting how a shaolin school just blossoms in a busy California store front :D)

Gene keep the shaolin specials coming!!

[uki]

what abbot, where? :D

[David Jamieson]

Idioms?

You take umbrage at the term "eating bitter"?

I'm sorry but your statement does not follow.

unfortunately...I neglected to add "axioms" to that. lol

I meant both.

and yes, I take umbrage with a lot of each from several different cultures including my own. :)

[SimonM]

Although I am not a proponent of absolute moral relativism I do believe that a certain level of cultural relativism is important to hold if one wishes to avoid Jingoism.

[David Jamieson]

Although I am not a proponent of absolute moral relativism I do believe that a certain level of cultural relativism is important to hold if one wishes to avoid Jingoism.

lol. magnificent! :p

[SimonM]

Thank you. :cool:

[David Jamieson]

I prefer pluralism myself. Mostly because relativism excuses what is poor behaviour no matter how you cut it more often than not.

[SimonM]

From the perspective of realpolitic relativism is necessary though. One will not be successful as a diplomat if one runs around declaring things immoral on the basis of cultural difference.

That being said, certain attrocities should not be allowed to hide behind the veneer of cultural relativism (mutilation for instance) and so cultural relativism must be within defined limits and should not be confused for moral relativism.

[MasterKiller]

That Dog Boxing article must have come from a ESL writer. It is confusing.

[GeneChing]

The Dog Master piece was by Chen Pengcheng, who is indeed ESL, and has written a lot of our e-zine (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/TOC/index.php#C). I really wanted to use the cover blurb "Shaolin Dog Master Interview". ;)

[SimonM]

This is an example (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7771393.stm) of a practice that should not be protected under the aegis of reasonable cultural relativism.

[LFJ]

the united states is no stranger to this behavior either.

watch director clint eastwood's new film "changeling", starring angelina jolie. its based on a true story which took place in 1920's los angeles. the corruption is just sickening.

i went to see the movie with family and friends during thanksgiving. not so much for the movie but just for the time hanging out. i didnt go in expecting much, and dont generally watch movies. i dont even own a tv. but i was blown away by it, emotionally. very good movie.

[GeneChing]

Sword vs. Broom (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=906539#post906539). Obviously the German PD reads our magazine.

Shaolin Special #10 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=797)is only on the newsstands for another two weeks or so, so be sure to grab a copy now! If you enjoy this forum and our Shaolin coverage, don't forget to support us on the newsstands. It's good Shaolin karma.

[uki]

It's good Shaolin karma.unless you are outside the cycles of karma, as would be any true tree in the little forest... karma is only for those whom are still bound by it. :p