Is society itself what has weakened the Martial Arts?

[Iron_Eagle_76]

It seems to be a trend in this day and age that people are generally weaker than in the past. For example, ten years ago my kung fu class was a good workout that involved hard conditioning, hard sparring, and a comradery that was like no other. But it seems like today people just aren't interested in this sort of thing. One of the main reasons I stopped teaching Kung Fu and focused on Boxing was that students coming into the class did not want what we had done before. They wanted something easy, routine, and for lack of a better term, P**ssified version of what our Kung Fu class is. Granted, there were students like this back in the day, but not in the numbers like there are now. Is this a reflection of the laziness of society, or am I just getting more senile in my older age?

[David Jamieson]

It seems to be a trend in this day and age that people are generally weaker than in the past. For example, ten years ago my kung fu class was a good workout that involved hard conditioning, hard sparring, and a comradery that was like no other. But it seems like today people just aren't interested in this sort of thing. One of the main reasons I stopped teaching Kung Fu and focused on Boxing was that students coming into the class did not want what we had done before. They wanted something easy, routine, and for lack of a better term, P**ssified version of what our Kung Fu class is. Granted, there were students like this back in the day, but not in the numbers like there are now. Is this a reflection of the laziness of society, or am I just getting more senile in my older age?

I think you are not assessing the situation correctly. There are different levels of fitness. IME, most traditional martial arts schools are loaded with hobbyists. When there is competition that is at a level of excellence you will have a greater amount of fit and able people. This doesn't really happen so much in kungfu and karate tournaments where far too much emphasis is placed on forms and not enough on martial skills as applied.

so people learn a pattern, get real used to it and then the law of dimishing returns kicks in and they do not change because of the practice because it no longer challenges them. Having a teacher adjust your wrist or something doesn't enhance much either. lol

anyway, competitive environments fosters better performance especially from fighters.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I think you are not assessing the situation correctly. There are different levels of fitness. IME, most traditional martial arts schools are loaded with hobbyists. When there is competition that is at a level of excellence you will have a greater amount of fit and able people. This doesn't really happen so much in kungfu and karate tournaments where far too much emphasis is placed on forms and not enough on martial skills as applied.

so people learn a pattern, get real used to it and then the law of dimishing returns kicks in and they do not change because of the practice because it no longer challenges them. Having a teacher adjust your wrist or something doesn't enhance much either. lol

anyway, competitive environments fosters better performance especially from fighters.


I agree that traditional martial arts is loaded with hobbyists. But I still feel that as a society we do not hold ourselves to as high of a standard as before. Maybe it's the "Everyone is a winner" crap that we as a society have believed religiously over the last ten to fifteen years.

[MasterKiller]

uh, no. Blame the industry. Most martial arts clubs water down their curriculum to attract a wider range of students and therefore make more $. If you market it as such, don't be surprised when your core group is overweight soccer moms and Little Dragons who would rather be playing their Nintendo DS.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Real MA training isn't and never has been, for everyone.
Those wishing to fight and compete are best following Sport combat arts.
Those looking for a "hobby" are best finding it in the typical TMA.
Those looking for fitness with a twist, can find it in both of the above.
For the very small percentage looking to be MA, the path will typically start with TMA, go to Sport combat and back to TMA.
For the almost dead portion that want that "little bit more", well...there is always the Baki the Grappler anime.
That's probably as close to the "real thing" as yu are gonna get.

[Lucas]

For the almost dead portion that want that "little bit more", well...there is always the Baki the Grappler anime.
That's probably as close to the "real thing" as yu are gonna get.

I'll rip out your tendons!

[Ray Pina]

It's all related to the increasing amount of bull$hit man allows himself to willingly and knowingly digest.

I'm not going to get into it too heavily, and I know it's only the half dozen kwoons I've been to in NYC's Chinatown, and that the standards in Tenn. and Ohio are pretty higher, but you have to be smoking crack to think the way these guys are training is warrior training. Maybe they can push around some ring-ding eating, couch potato, but guys like me are training 5, 6 days a week. Multiple sessions a day. We're fighting quarterly. Competing in BJJ more regularly. You can't match that with the standing in straight lines, holding horse stance, doing golden turtles and Sil Lum Tao.

Forget technique or style. Just the sheer amount of conditioning. This is something that karate had that I find Kung Fu lacks. You need to be a better man (faster, stronger, more explosive, agile, confident, ballsy) than the other guy. You need to be a fierce warrior.

Most people want to look tough, sound tough, talk tough... they don't want to train tough. So just like people who think they'll get rich buying lottery tickets they go off to the kwoon packing their fake weapons and robes. Slip on their kung fu sandals... which are great ya know, their slipper soles help your balance:rolleyes:

Anyone with a decent brain knows how they're training and where it leaves them in the big scheme of things. Most people are content with blowing smoke up their own a$$. They're happy enough making it look like they're trying.

[bawang]

more master than students in north america, and all the "masters" want to make money off teaching martial arts, want to make art of kiling a business, teaching to complete garbage of people, why i will never understand
i want schools to shut down and disappear, i want people to forget about kung fu and that faagoot bruce lee,i wanna start over

[Ray Pina]

Really? I trained with a bunch of highly-educated, ABCs who didn't want to get dirty. Doctors, laywers, architects. I was stoked if I got hurt, arrested or needed a home. Unfortunately I needed some bad a$$es to fight with.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Really? I trained with a bunch of highly-educated, ABCs who didn't want to get dirty. Doctors, laywers, architects. I was stoked if I got hurt, arrested or needed a home. Unfortunately I needed some bad a$$es to fight with.

The funny thing is I always thought these types were the worst. They think because they are highly educated they can somehow think their way through martial arts training rather than training the correct way physically. Most are half-ass psuedo intellectuals who would rather theorize rather than test.

[sanjuro_ronin]

It's all related to the increasing amount of bull$hit man allows himself to willingly and knowingly digest.

I'm not going to get into it too heavily, and I know it's only the half dozen kwoons I've been to in NYC's Chinatown, and that the standards in Tenn. and Ohio are pretty higher, but you have to be smoking crack to think the way these guys are training is warrior training. Maybe they can push around some ring-ding eating, couch potato, but guys like me are training 5, 6 days a week. Multiple sessions a day. We're fighting quarterly. Competing in BJJ more regularly. You can't match that with the standing in straight lines, holding horse stance, doing golden turtles and Sil Lum Tao.

Forget technique or style. Just the sheer amount of conditioning. This is something that karate had that I find Kung Fu lacks. You need to be a better man (faster, stronger, more explosive, agile, confident, ballsy) than the other guy. You need to be a fierce warrior.

Most people want to look tough, sound tough, talk tough... they don't want to train tough. So just like people who think they'll get rich buying lottery tickets they go off to the kwoon packing their fake weapons and robes. Slip on their kung fu sandals... which are great ya know, their slipper soles help your balance:rolleyes:

Anyone with a decent brain knows how they're training and where it leaves them in the big scheme of things. Most people are content with blowing smoke up their own a$$. They're happy enough making it look like they're trying.

AH Ray....same ol same ol eh?

[bawang]

good example is the guy posting the other thread. he wants to do hung gar/ wing chun for the "philosophy".
i tell you the philosophy dont kil prostitutes dont kil monks dont kil poor people everyone eles is fair game this is the only code of the wulin

but sanjuro, ray has a point though
ray can whoop most kung fu peoples butts and he gets whopped all the time by mma people think about that

[sanjuro_ronin]

but sanjuro, ray has a point ven thogh
ray can whoop most kung fu peoples butts and he gets whopped all the time by mma people think about that

Not sure what your point is...
Has ray fought really bad TCMA?
Has Ray had bad MMA training, since he is losing "all the time" ?

[bawang]

well u have to admit good tmca is hard as hell to find tho, not hard for average person to come up with the conclusion
i mean it not hard to understand why those peenisbutts at bullshido are so bitter

[sanjuro_ronin]

well u have to admit good tmca is hard as hell to find tho, not hard for average person to come up with the conclusion
i mean it not hard to understand why those peenisbutts at bullshido are so bitter

True, decent TCMA is harder to find than a virgin in a *****house.

LOL at peenisbutts !!

[SimonM]

One would think it would be easy to find a virgin at the entry to a brothel. :D

[Lucas]

the way I look at it is kind of liek this:

MMA is TMA. In a sense its not really much different than what is normally thought of as TMA.

the difference. MMA is still young. Its going through the same evolutionary process that all other MA's went through in history.

TCMA, TJMA, TKMA, TEMA all went through the same steps.

*Learn how to make the body strong.

*Learn how to make your body a weapon

*Learn how to use that weapon through actual use and practice.

Many times this was forcefully done by generations of people in times of war. Times of war will produce the largest evolutionary jumps in combat technology due to neccessity.

MMA is the closest thing we have to field testing our MA in a real world simulated invironment. The difference being we arent killing each other in there. Which in turn gives men the ability to learn when they lose, instead of die.

The longer I study MA, the less of a dividing line i really see between MMA or TMA. Its all the same to me.

The major differnce only being good and bad instruction/practice. MMA on average will have more consistant instruction. ALthough this is NOT all inclusive.

"TMA" will on average have more inconsistant methods. Varying between schools/instructors.

In sum. MA is MA. there is just good MA and bad MA. But NOTHING is all inclusive.

[sanjuro_ronin]

the way I look at it is kind of liek this:

MMA is TMA. In a sense its not really much different than what is normally thought of as TMA.

the difference. MMA is still young. Its going through the same evolutionary process that all other MA's went through in history.

TCMA, TJMA, TKMA, TEMA all went through the same steps.

*Learn how to make the body strong.

*Learn how to make your body a weapon

*Learn how to use that weapon through actual use and practice.

Many times this was forcefully done by generations of people in times of war. Times of war will produce the largest evolutionary jumps in combat technology due to neccessity.

MMA is the closest thing we have to field testing our MA in a real world simulated invironment. The difference being we arent killing each other in there. Which in turn gives men the ability to learn when they lose, instead of die.

The longer I study MA, the less of a dividing line i really see between MMA or TMA. Its all the same to me.

The major differnce only being good and bad instruction/practice. MMA on average will have more consistant instruction. ALthough this is NOT all inclusive.

"TMA" will on average have more inconsistant methods. Varying between schools/instructors.

In sum. MA is MA. there is just good MA and bad MA. But NOTHING is all inclusive.

Such a post is deserving of praise:

[Iron_Eagle_76]

the way I look at it is kind of liek this:

MMA is TMA. In a sense its not really much different than what is normally thought of as TMA.

the difference. MMA is still young. Its going through the same evolutionary process that all other MA's went through in history.

TCMA, TJMA, TKMA, TEMA all went through the same steps.

*Learn how to make the body strong.

*Learn how to make your body a weapon

*Learn how to use that weapon through actual use and practice.

Many times this was forcefully done by generations of people in times of war. Times of war will produce the largest evolutionary jumps in combat technology due to neccessity.

MMA is the closest thing we have to field testing our MA in a real world simulated invironment. The difference being we arent killing each other in there. Which in turn gives men the ability to learn when they lose, instead of die.

The longer I study MA, the less of a dividing line i really see between MMA or TMA. Its all the same to me.

The major differnce only being good and bad instruction/practice. MMA on average will have more consistant instruction. ALthough this is NOT all inclusive.

"TMA" will on average have more inconsistant methods. Varying between schools/instructors.

In sum. MA is MA. there is just good MA and bad MA. But NOTHING is all inclusive.

The dividing line is generally the students. On one side, there is Kung Fu, full of a.kids b.soccer moms c. fat asses, and d.doucebags who live in a fantasy world of anime, wire fu, and world of warcraft. THe other side is MMA and sport fighting which produces either a. fighters or b. people who really want to get in shape. Is this a broad stereotype, of course. But is it that far from the truth, not really.

[Lucas]

I must be one of the few people who have met people who practice asian arts that work hard, sweat, bleed and strive to better themselves and those they work with.

granted this is not the norm, per se. but there are men out there like this who have a foundation in 'tma'

i dont know that i would say:

on one side is kungfu and its all full of losers and on the other side is MMA full of champs.

its not that simple. thats an example of common trend yes.

for instance a good friend just started his black sash program after 10 years at his school. hes looking to start his own school soon. the requirements are pretty harsh as far as physical requirements go. example hes needing to run 10 miles in 75-80 minutes. thats just an example to show that no out of shape fat soccer mom will ever EVER recieve a black sash at that school. not physically possible for a slouch to get instructor level in a school like that.

And thats just the RUNNING requirement. not to mention sparring the whole school, multiple sparring, fighting the sifu, conditioning expectations, etc.

Im one of those guys that rides the line. I just appreciate good training. where ever you can find it.

Some people just have not had the opportunity to experience good 'TMA' some have.

ive never had liver, dont want to, i think its nasty. but how can i truly say that with actual conviction till i try it. i cant. and i never will :D

[TenTigers]

puh-leez. The only reason mma got as popular as it did, is because of promotion. First UFC-and you can bet it took a heckuva lot to get it into a venue, and especially on TV.
Then it was packaged,promoted and sold to the consumer-you.
You have no idea what has been going on behind the scenes since the eighties to bring it into the limelight as it is now. Now, we have reality shows, merchandising, franchised MMA schools, MMA instructor certification so that it can and IS being taught in McDojos, and just you wait-there will be a Saturday morning cartoon show. If pro wrestlers are doing TV commercials, becoming actors, selling ads, posing nekkid, it is only a matter of time before you see in with MMA.
If they did the same thing with Wu-Shu, you'd all be wearing silk pajamas.
You give yourselves way too much credit.

[sanjuro_ronin]

There was a time that training in a TMA meant oen thing - PAIN.
Pain for you and for your training partners.
There was the pain of exhaustion.
The pain of sparring.
The pain of conditioning.
The pain of pain.
And for the teachers there was the pain of paying bills...

Something had to give.

TKD is probably the most popular MA in the world, but to see what type of training they did when it wasn't popular to what they do now, we can understand what happened and why.
Are there still many TMA that can kill you just as soon as look at you or shake your hand?
Of course.
Are they a dying breed?
Yes, and that is a good thing and bad thing.

You wanna fight, join a sport combat school/gym.

[sanjuro_ronin]

puh-leez. The only reason mma got as popular as it did, is because of promotion. First UFC-and you can bet it took a heckuva lot to get it into a venue, and especially on TV.
Then it was packaged,promoted and sold to the consumer-you.
You have no idea what has been going on behind the scenes since the eighties to bring it into the limelight as it is now. Now, we have reality shows, merchandising, franchised MMA schools, MMA instructor certification so that it can and IS being taught in McDojos, and just you wait-there will be a Saturday morning cartoon show. If pro wrestlers are doing TV commercials, becoming actors, selling ads, posing nekkid, it is only a matter of time before you see in with MMA.
If they did the same thing with Wu-Shu, you'd all be wearing silk pajamas.
You give yourselves way too much credit.

Thems fighting words !

[Iron_Eagle_76]

puh-leez. The only reason mma got as popular as it did, is because of promotion. First UFC-and you can bet it took a heckuva lot to get it into a venue, and especially on TV.
Then it was packaged,promoted and sold to the consumer-you.
You have no idea what has been going on behind the scenes since the eighties to bring it into the limelight as it is now. Now, we have reality shows, merchandising, franchised MMA schools, MMA instructor certification so that it can and IS being taught in McDojos, and just you wait-there will be a Saturday morning cartoon show. If pro wrestlers are doing TV commercials, becoming actors, selling ads, posing nekkid, it is only a matter of time before you see in with MMA.
If they did the same thing with Wu-Shu, you'd all be wearing silk pajamas.
You give yourselves way too much credit.


I give myself all kinds of credit because I love to stroke my own huge ego:D That aside, there was a time when everyone wore silk pajamas and thought kung fu was the ultimate of all fighting arts, it was called the 70's. Results are what matters, and the reason MMA is looked highly upon now is that for the most part it produces results. At the start of this thread, I had no intention of making it into a MMA vs. TMA thread, but it is what it is. I love and respect good kung fu. The problem is, good kung fu is much harder to find than good MMA and you are in denial if you think this is not true.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The question needs to be asked:

Since we have MMA, while would one look for "the real" kung fu ??

[sihing]

puh-leez. The only reason mma got as popular as it did, is because of promotion. First UFC-and you can bet it took a heckuva lot to get it into a venue, and especially on TV.
Then it was packaged,promoted and sold to the consumer-you.
You have no idea what has been going on behind the scenes since the eighties to bring it into the limelight as it is now. Now, we have reality shows, merchandising, franchised MMA schools, MMA instructor certification so that it can and IS being taught in McDojos, and just you wait-there will be a Saturday morning cartoon show. If pro wrestlers are doing TV commercials, becoming actors, selling ads, posing nekkid, it is only a matter of time before you see in with MMA.
If they did the same thing with Wu-Shu, you'd all be wearing silk pajamas.
You give yourselves way too much credit.

I whole heartedly agree. If MMA (UFC) wasn't makin any money for some of the select few, you wouldn't see much of it today. I respect the hell out of those guys that train in the MMA format. We have a MMA gym here, and the fighters have been successful in the league they participate in, I think one of them is a North American champ. I heard that this guy trains 15 or so workouts a week..damm I'm beat after 6 a week, so I have all the respect for people that do that. It can't be easy, and you have to love doing it to be able to keep that pace of training up. For me, I'm not built that way, I'm more moderate in everything I do, and look for something different out of my training.

Although I believe as human "beings", we are all one & interconnected like any large organism is, we all have individual motivations behind what we do and why we do it. Gaining of pleasure or joy out of life is the key thing, otherwise why would we do anything in life.

James

[sihing]

I give myself all kinds of credit because I love to stroke my own huge ego:D That aside, there was a time when everyone wore silk pajamas and thought kung fu was the ultimate of all fighting arts, it was called the 70's. Results are what matters, and the reason MMA is looked highly upon now is that for the most part it produces results. At the start of this thread, I had no intention of making it into a MMA vs. TMA thread, but it is what it is. I love and respect good kung fu. The problem is, good kung fu is much harder to find than good MMA and you are in denial if you think this is not true.

MMA in and of itself doesn't produce anything, how could it, it is not a living thing. It's the people that participate that make it come alive. The 70's explosion of Kung Fu, part of it from the popularity and death of the rising star known as Bruce Lee, and the Shaw Brother's fantasy Black Belt theater (here we are again, entertainment/media exposure and money makin), are the cause of the main problem with what people think about Kung Fu and the such. MMA has been popularized from the other extreme, and that extreme is the supposed realism it promotes. Yes of course it is real, but not real in the sense that it reflects the society. These guys are highly trained conditioned athletes, probably the most conditioned of all athletic sports. If you took that aspect away from them, and they took a break from their conditioning, what would they have left? Is MMA about training, or is it a style? To me it's about training, conditioning. For me that is the thing. I may not always be able to be in tip top shape, nor may I want to be, so I train in something that to me works regardless (in a self defence street environment), and that if fun for me to participate in.

MMA is the trend in pop culture, so of course you will find more of that available, it still doesn't deny the fact that good Kung Fu is out there and available to learn, it is just harder to find.

James

[SimonM]

I think it's safe to say most professional athletes condition themselves to the extent of MMA fighters.

Now that being said, that's much more conditioning than the average rec-martial artist.

As another aside consider that there is still validity to espousing crosstraining kickboxing of some form with some type of submission wrestling as a technique modality.

[TenTigers]

Is MMA about training, or is it a style? To me it's about training, conditioning. For me that is the thing. I may not always be able to be in tip top shape, nor may I want to be, so I train in something that to me works regardless (in a self defence street environment), and that if fun for me to participate in.

MMA is the trend in pop culture, so of course you will find more of that available, it still doesn't deny the fact that good Kung Fu is out there and available to learn, it is just harder to find.

James

that's it, in a nutshell.
And you are right-good Kung-Fu IS out there, always has been.
And it's always been hard to find.
I went to a good TKD school in the 70's.
We fought almost everyday, no gear. We also trained in Hapkido and boxing.
We came home everyday battered and bruised.
Hard to find those schools anymore.
Now when you say TKD, people roll their eyes.

[TenTigers]

I think it's safe to say most professional athletes condition themselves to the extent of MMA fighters.

Now that being said, that's much more conditioning than the average rec-martial artist.

As another aside consider that there is still validity to espousing crosstraining kickboxing of some form with some type of submission wrestling as a technique modality.

definately.

[Knifefighter]

I may not always be able to be in tip top shape, nor may I want to be, so I train in something that to me works regardless (in a self defence street environment), and that if fun for me to participate in.

LOL @ rationalizing that some styles work better when you are out of shape, but don't work as well when you are in shape. The fact is, if one thing works better than another when you are in shape, it will also work better than the other when you are out of shape.

[sanjuro_ronin]

LOL @ rationalizing that some styles work better when you are out of shape, but don't work as well when you are in shape. The fact is, if one thing works better than another when you are in shape, it will also work better than the other when you are out of shape.

You've obviously never been exposed to Fat-fu or chunkyass-jutsu.

[Ray Pina]

They think because they are highly educated they can somehow think their way through martial arts training rather than training the correct way physically. Most are half-ass psuedo intellectuals who would rather theorize rather than test.

Bingo!





.............

[TenTigers]

LOL @ rationalizing that some styles work better when you are out of shape, but don't work as well when you are in shape. The fact is, if one thing works better than another when you are in shape, it will also work better than the other when you are out of shape.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxhKb-zZoWE:p

[WinterPalm]

There was a time that training in a TMA meant oen thing - PAIN.
Pain for you and for your training partners.
There was the pain of exhaustion.
The pain of sparring.
The pain of conditioning.
The pain of pain.
And for the teachers there was the pain of paying bills...


That best describes the Kung Fu I trained in. And that's the way it should be...however, I think if schools want to offer workouts for people with no fighting desire, than why not?

As to the topic at hand:

Our society produces weaker people, that is a fact. Most of us are destined to the office chair, that's the goal of many anyway, our food is garbage, and our education in things physical is negligent. Of course we have better science, but our base conditioning - years of hard physical labour, is non-existent...thus producing weaker people.
Training in MA is supposed to be tough, and always should be, but some aren't offering to make you a fighter or even tough, just a hobby.

[TenTigers]

definately true with white collar types. The moms look at MA as something to drop their kids off at. One year it's Kung-Fu, the next season, it;s tennis. The adults look at the schools like a health club. They come in, do their workout and go home.
The women see it as another trend in fitness.The kids are soft, babysat by the TV and video games and the computer.

Blue collar types on the other hand want their kids to toughen up, and not get picked on at school. They would rather have their son be the one doing the beating than getting it. They value MA.
The adults who come in want to get in shape,l but also want to be able to handle themselves. The women don't want to be victims.

made me rethink my move to an upscale neighborhood.
I'm not staying here in Lil' El Salvador, but I'm not moving to Sands Point either.

[Lucas]

The question needs to be asked:

Since we have MMA, while would one look for "the real" kung fu ??

IMO i think a large portion of this aspect is the culture itself. also some guys are really into weapons. you generally need some sort of TMA to be able to learn any traditional melee weapons. swords/poles/etc.

some people seek a form of 'refinement' that some times may not always be offered at some MMA gyms.

taiji comes to mind

thats just a couple thoughts i had on your post.

[Lucas]

dont forget the people that are looking for a way to 'fight back', often times after bad experiences with physical violence.

sometimes these people just end up in a TMA. and sometimes they get lucky and live near someone who is a real martial artists that can teach.

[Water Dragon]

The funny thing is I always thought these types were the worst. They think because they are highly educated they can somehow think their way through martial arts training rather than training the correct way physically. Most are half-ass psuedo intellectuals who would rather theorize rather than test.

My experience has been the exact opposite. In my Judo club, we have a regional bank manager, a couple lawyers, a doctor, a lieutenant colonel, and I'm a financial advisor. We're all highly educated, and we all bang hard. Miguel Torres has a bachelors degree (I forget in what) And he is considered possibly the best pound for pund fighter in the world today. We had some professionals there as well who would bang pretty hard.

Weak individuals will find weak schools, and strong individuals will find strong schools. It's the old 'the student will find the teacher he deserves' scenario.

Now, martial sports do tend to draw a stronger crowd on average than traditional schools. That's a topic I think is worth discussing, although I think that thread would never be productive in a place like this, but it's the people in the arts more than the actual art that is important.

As far as society itself being the culprit, there have always been more weak people than strong people and more stupid people than intelligent people. I don't think that's a recent development at all.

[TenTigers]

'the student will find the teacher he deserves'


I just finished teaching a very difficult adolescent with Asperger's Syndrome.


That ain't right.:mad:

[bawang]

lol tentigers u sellout!!!!!!1 :O assburgers? how low will you go man, how low will you go
*shakes head

[eomonroe00]

I think IRON EAGLE is right, it is society that is getting more and more lazy. Kids used to play outside, now they have video games and tv and cell phones.Its harder and harder to grab and keep their attention.

I work at a school and i am surprised the kids can walk without bumping into things because all they do is text or talk on their cell.

They dont know the meaning of hard work and challenge. Its sad, but it seems to be the way things are moving.

You can find the same trend in government and big business. Bush as president? He has no credentials, he didnt earn that black belt he has(the oval office).

All these investment banks that played the game and lost should be closing up shop like men, yet they cry to congress to be saved and they are. As a nation we seem to be rewarding the weak. The automakers want a bailout because they cannot compete? In the fight you either rise to the challenge and win, or lose and train harder.

You can take all of these examples into the martial arts realm. Real obsticales, real hard work and real challenges breed strong individuals. Right now our nation is weak its not just the members of your martial arts school and its definitly not just the kung fu world, as Ray would have us believe.

I myself have been one of those lazy people for many years, and this year have started to shake it off. Its not easy, its not fun, but hard work really does feel amazing.

Cant help but comment on ray again, he continues to blame all those kung fu schools for the downfall of hard work around the world. Ray, lazy people come in all shapes and sizes, all styles and schools, you are a smart guy, we all know you grasp these points,