Have the Glory Days of Martial Arts Forums Passed?

[rogue]

I've been noticing a drop in topics and responses on a lot of MA forums. Anybody else seeing the same thing?

[David Jamieson]

social networking sites are killing forums in general.

forums are starting to become dinosaurs.

there was an attempt at making them more like social networking sites, but more smilies and a more robust pm system doesn't usually amount to much more than accessories you use once and dump. lol

if you had a sort of kungfu facebook...which you have with facebook when you create a kungfu group...lol.

anyway, it will be interesting to see which way it evolves.

[brothernumber9]

Yes. I was even mulling over the idea to start a "This Forum is on the Brink of Death" thread here. Who would have thought that the main forum would be the new ORA forum from years ago.
Next thing you know we'll have a battle thread and Sevenstar will come lumbering out of the shadows.
Seriously it's almost to the point that we should invite back Ralek, Rolls, Sui, Ego Extrodinaire, Blooming Lotus, Mega Foot, and Diamond Talons just to keep it interesting.

[Ben Gash]

I was talking to another instructor a little while ago, and one of the things we talked about is how some people have learned to go right up to the line without breaking terms of service, and manage to completely destroy any meaningful conversation and undermine people with insinuation and put downs without crossing the line into threats and slander. For example, for a couple of years it's been very difficult to have a serious conversation about Choy Li Fut on the southern forum because of a certain person.
This then discourages people from sharing anything worthwhile, which causes conversation to dry up.
Also, this forum has strayed from it's original purpose. It's no longer the place to discuss Kung Fu, it's largely OT and populated by several people who are quite anti Kung Fu. Without a clear purpose, any service is going to experience problems.
I also chat on a guitar forum where poor behaviour isn't tolerated, people share similar goals and people treat each other like adults, and it's a thriving forum with a real sense of community.

[sanjuro_ronin]

There are many reasons to ponder.
David mentioned one.
Another is that less and less people "suffer fools lightly" and as such, many people in La-La land get a rude awakening when they spew stuff that is, well, BS.
Most leave and don't come back or find a fantasy land they can call home.
Other just don't post very much.
Every forum has a core of members that probably make a good 70% of all posts, if one goes...its quite noticable.
Topics all tend to be "beaten to death" after awhile and there is only so much MA discussion one can have.
Another issue is one of "substance".
A horrid fact of forums is that Mr.Buttwipe's view is just as "valid" ( it isn't) as Mr.Masters view.
No matter how many times someone rips out a white sheet of paper and calls it white, there is always someone to call it black and another fool to agree.
Frustration is probably a factor in many people leaving forums.

[yu shan]

The last post was on November 27th!

[SPJ]

due to work and family;

I drop my posting in several forums.

But still I read several English and Chinese forums regularly.

personally;

I think the you tube phenomena since 2006 took the center stage.

People may search many and many video infos.

But overall, this forum and empty flower forum are still actively read by many.

or at least I and many of my friends are still hanging around a lot.

--

:D;)

[SimonM]

Seriously it's almost to the point that we should invite back Ralek, Rolls, Sui, Ego Extrodinaire, Blooming Lotus, Mega Foot, and Diamond Talons just to keep it interesting.

Noooooooooo!!!!!!



No matter how many times someone rips out a white sheet of paper and calls it white, there is always someone to call it black and another fool to agree.
Frustration is probably a factor in many people leaving forums.

I know, eh.

We are STILL having eye-poke vs submission wrestling debates!

STILL!

I mean... dude!

:rolleyes:

[GeneChing]

Our forum here is still traffic-worthy, so we'll keep it running. While the amount of new posts isn't quite what it was, it's become a search-able web archive. There are more lurkers. You've got to factor in the lurkers. Most members don't realize that what they post stays up for as long as we keep it up. And those old threads get picked up by the search engines.

Here's an example: I posted about next week's NGC Shaolin documentary, and it currently pops to the top of a Google search. Through that, we were contacted by an NGC publicity rep and, as a favor, I posted the press release (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=900006&postcount=59). So here, the forum served as a good place to disseminate information.

Here's another: When noted author Joe Hyams passed away, we had a thread going to honor him. I was contacted by his widow, who thanked us for it (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=895076&postcount=13). We'll run her letter in our next issue. Here, the forum helped with the grieving process, and I couldn't be more pleased by that.

The only thing that limits the forum really, is all of you - all the members. What you contribute is what makes this forum interesting. Over the years, we've built a tremendous backlog of information. Sure, a lot of it is noise, but such is the web. If you know how to do web research, there are a lot of good leads here, and they continue to grow. I find it still very relevant, and for obvious reasons, endeavour to keep it so.

[mickey]

Greetings,

I have also noticed the decline. I think Gene touched on it when he wrote that the guys that post here can't "get any", so to speak. So it would follow that once they "get some," they are gone.

mickey

[sanjuro_ronin]

Our forum here is still traffic-worthy, so we'll keep it running. While the amount of new posts isn't quite what it was, it's become a search-able web archive. There are more lurkers. You've got to factor in the lurkers. Most members don't realize that what they post stays up for as long as we keep it up. And those old threads get picked up by the search engines.

Here's an example: I posted about next week's NGC Shaolin documentary, and it currently pops to the top of a Google search. Through that, we were contacted by an NGC publicity rep and, as a favor, I posted the press release (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=900006&postcount=59). So here, the forum served as a good place to disseminate information.

Here's another: When noted author Joe Hyams passed away, we had a thread going to honor him. I was contacted by his widow, who thanked us for it (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=895076&postcount=13). We'll run her letter in our next issue. Here, the forum helped with the grieving process, and I couldn't be more pleased by that.

The only thing that limits the forum really, is all of you - all the members. What you contribute is what makes this forum interesting. Over the years, we've built a tremendous backlog of information. Sure, a lot of it is noise, but such is the web. If you know how to do web research, there are a lot of good leads here, and they continue to grow. I find it still very relevant, and for obvious reasons, endeavour to keep it so.

And for that, Sir, we salute you !!

[TenTigers]

my one complaint, and this is really the only one I have, is that as mentioned, there are a few people on here that don't like TCMA, feel it's a waste of time, and yet they waste theirs and ours by constantly posting here. If they don't like CMA, then they should simply take their business elsewhere. There are plenty of sights devoted to MMA, BJJ, whatever,. Some are former TCMA students, others don't even seem to have had any experience, beyond perhaps a few lessons, and then they push their agenda. Why these people stay here and try to "enlighten" us, and why they are tolerated is beyond me.

[SimonM]

Some of the people who may be associated with that camp are, in fact, CMA-first and remain so.

They just are proponents of cross-training, pressure training and modernization within CMA.

Modernization does not mean abandoning CMA in favor of MT, BJJ or any other TLA but it does mean taking a long, hard, look at certain aspects common in CMA pedagogy which may be counter-productive to the stated goals of the art.

The idea that a bare-hand martial art is "too deadly for the ring, too deadly to pressure test" is one of these things.

Even weapon combat can be pressure tested by an innovative enough fighter! Right now the dialogue between reformer CMAists and traditionalist CMAists is one of the more interesting ones online even if it is contentious.

The presence of "all CMA is fatally flawed" nay-sayers can basically just be ignored in favor of that dialogue.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Part of it is the fact that there are certain sub groups populated by extremely immature individuals (especially here), who feel the need to lynch anyone they don't agree with, for no real foreseeable reason. It makes for a hostile enviroment, and it makes contributers not want too bother posting and joining in the conversations.

[GeneChing]

I don't think this forum should be restrictive, obviously. I like the trolls and their anti-CMA rants. It's just a forum. Frankly, the real enemy of CMA is when it goes unchallenged. In fencing, we have what we call "Salle Fencers" - those are people who are good in their salle d'armes (fencing guan, if you will) but can't fence successfully outside of it. They aren't exposed to outside competitors. Same goes with the forum here. It's all about exposure.

mickey, I don't remember saying that our forum members can't get any, which is not to say I never said it. For the record, I'll say all many of our members probably get are pics from sanjuro_ronin, and for that, sir, we salute sanjuro_ronin.

:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

I don't think this forum should be restrictive, obviously. I like the trolls and their anti-CMA rants. It's just a forum. Frankly, the real enemy of CMA is when it goes unchallenged. In fencing, we have what we call "Salle Fencers" - those are people who are good in their salle d'armes (fencing guan, if you will) but can't fence successfully outside of it. They aren't exposed to outside competitors. Same goes with the forum here. It's all about exposure.

mickey, I don't remember saying that our forum members can't get any, which is not to say I never said it. For the record, I'll say all many of our members probably get are pics from sanjuro_ronin, and for that, sir, we salute sanjuro_ronin.

:D

* Bows*
One does what one can.

[David Jamieson]

I like the trolls and the blowhards as well.

It gives me a chance to vent and release when I go off on them.
They're my mental rage-porn so to speak.

Better here than in my own house or to real flesh and blood people. lol

Only a few of you actually represent real people in my mind, the rest are archetypes I form in my own mind and attack or side with at a whim.

Like anyone else I guess. :P

[Reverend Tap]

Most forums do tend to go through cycles of activity, too.

In any case, this place is still significantly more active than most other forums I've been seeing lately, so things can't be too bad.

[SimonM]

This is very true. When I grump about kungfumagazine being dead I'm often told how lucky I am to have a forum with more than 1 new message posted per day!

[Lucas]

IMO CMA haters are a good thing. To a degree anyway.

A lot of times things that these people say can put certain aspects of ones training in a specific light. A light that can force one to scrutinize further what they are experiencing, comparitively to what others are doing, to decide if what they are doing is in fact helping them towards their goals.


there is, of course, an extent to what can be tolerated. That is the point where I read and just dont respond to drivel I feel is a waste of time responding too.


Its refreshing to have people coming in from all angles and giving their input.

I mean this is martial arts, defending ourselves and what we do is our business. Its all part of the training. Mental as well as physical.

Debating is a good thing.

Some people just go beyond actual debating sometimes and get childish. I just laugh when that happens, why let the internet and its evil cronies actually effect you.

[SimonM]

This is wisdom.

The day that ANYTHING said on Kung Fu Magazine REALLY gets under my skin is the day I will be taking a good 6 month break from the forum.

Honestly internet fora are, in general, nothing but things to do to kill time.

[Yum Cha]

This forum has a unique character - Martial arts is about contention and strategy as well as about combat and technique.

You can't really expect people like that to act like ladies at a tea party on issues they feel strongly about. AND WHY WOULD YOU! Cry havoc!

That being said there is a certain polarity between TCMA and MMA on this board which seems to take control of many topics, diluting or re-directing the conversations back to a lower denominator.

I disagree with David partially about the Social Networking sites. They are popular and draw traffic, but its a different experience. Social not technical. Competing for a users internet time, sure, but not for MA content.

There is a Martial Artists Facebook-ish site. Dead. No critical mass.

That's what makes this site different to all the other MA Forums and social networking sites, critical mass on topic. It may be lower, but its still big enough to generate a real time experience through out the day.

The forum might say, "News of my death has been slightly exaggerated."

[GeneChing]

We've now been connected to two social networks specifically connected to martial arts: MartialRank.com (http://martialrank.com/) & iMartial.com (http://www.imartial.com/index.aspx). I'm still on iMartial.com occasionally. We've looked into integrating a social network more, but frankly, it's challenging enough to keep this monster running. We're doing admin updates all the time. That being said, we're developing a lot of new stuff for KungFuMagazine.com, but it's only in the development now, so I can't really commit to it's success. We don't even have a beta up yet.

Anyway, I still enjoy the forum even though for me, it is work. I find the forum to be really funny on the whole. Many trolls are really translucent, mostly because they are poor writers or just haven't developed a sense of second intention with their posts, so there's a certain one-dimensional simplicity that's very amusing - especially when they do get to someone. It's always kind of funny to me when I do get a cease & desist - it's kind of like holding that little crying kid's hand after the first time their ass was handed to them. I also get a lot of good news leads from the forum, plus the occasional history lesson.

[Lucas]

it's kind of like holding that little crying kid's hand after the first time their ass was handed to them.

LOL


thats seriously one of the funniest things ive seen posted here in a long time.

thats going in my quote spot

[jow yeroc]

It's all good. There are some really knowledgeable and smart people here and
a few smart asses who prefer their own brand but it's like school, life etc.
Distill the good, useful info from the bullsh-it and to be exposed to diverse angles
of issues, some relevant, many jibberish, and acquaint myself with some cool
people who i could chill with or learn something from one day are my main uses
of this and other fora i frequent. This is the only one with the level of trolling,
**** talking and douchebaggery to the degree sometimes found in Southern, WC
posts, et. al. Yeah, the level of maturity is questionable at times especially from
seemingly intelligent folks but all that stuff kinda makes it interesting and funny
too. It does get old but i still hang around. Just don't feel the need to state
my opinion all the time.

peace

[peace&love]

Overall, I have enjoyed the forum. I read Kung Fu Magazine for years and I enjoy the ezine a lot as well. For over two years, I enjoyed talking MA with my kung fu brother and sisters. When that school closed down and I lost the "family" traditional CMA experience, I decided to become part of the forum and have obtained some good advice during the short amount of time I've been a part of it. I enjoy the private messages I receive and sharing knowledge and info. As Gene pointed out, the forum is also an excellent way to discover some interesting info from the past and that has been helpful as far as clarifying those involved with specific systems and styles. I wish the San Soo guys were more involved because I think they would add some interesting perspectives on things, but I believe they mainly keep to themselves and that is okay. The trolls do not bother me. Like any human being, you deal with those everyday during rush hour, etc. That's just life. Plus a lot of the ones on this forum have some pretty funny one liners now and again. Also, as previously pointed out, in comparison to other forums, this one is by far the most active and productive in my opinion.

[mickey]

Greetings,

Does anyone notice how this thread reads like an eulogy?



mickey

[Lucas]

This forum is too deadly for the street.

[rogue]

Our forum here is still traffic-worthy, so we'll keep it running. While the amount of new posts isn't quite what it was, it's become a search-able web archive. There are more lurkers. You've got to factor in the lurkers. Most members don't realize that what they post stays up for as long as we keep it up. And those old threads get picked up by the search engines.

A few times I've had old posts of mine pop up when doing a search for something. Kind of cool and kind of weird. Thanks Gene for keeping the old gal running.

I wasn't really pointing fingers at here but MA forums in general. I wonder if blogs have taken away some posters (Never have so many written so little for so few :D), or maybe we've just run out of things to post about.***



***The exception of course is the WC forum which I think could create new threads for years on 50/50 vs 0/100 weight distribution alone.:p:D

[SPJ]

Our forum here is still traffic-worthy, so we'll keep it running. While the amount of new posts isn't quite what it was, it's become a search-able web archive. There are more lurkers. You've got to factor in the lurkers. Most members don't realize that what they post stays up for as long as we keep it up. And those old threads get picked up by the search engines.

Here's an example: I posted about next week's NGC Shaolin documentary, and it currently pops to the top of a Google search. Through that, we were contacted by an NGC publicity rep and, as a favor, I posted the press release (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=900006&postcount=59). So here, the forum served as a good place to disseminate information.

Here's another: When noted author Joe Hyams passed away, we had a thread going to honor him. I was contacted by his widow, who thanked us for it (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=895076&postcount=13). We'll run her letter in our next issue. Here, the forum helped with the grieving process, and I couldn't be more pleased by that.

The only thing that limits the forum really, is all of you - all the members. What you contribute is what makes this forum interesting. Over the years, we've built a tremendous backlog of information. Sure, a lot of it is noise, but such is the web. If you know how to do web research, there are a lot of good leads here, and they continue to grow. I find it still very relevant, and for obvious reasons, endeavour to keep it so.

I take a long bow to the mighty power of search engine on the net.

There is an old chinese saying

the eyes may see things a thousand miles away.

the ears may hear voices where the wind goes.

wow, it is the internet.

:eek::D;):)

[Drake]

It's also quite possible that people are just spending more time with their families over the holidays. Some are working extra jobs in order to make sure X-Mas isn't without gifts, and some people may just be *gasp* TRAINING!

:D

[GeneChing]

Thanks Gene for keeping the old gal running. rogue, the forum is about all of us. That's the point, really. Anyone can sit on their ass and ***** about how much to forum isn't like in the good old daze. Then there are those of us who continue to contribute to it constructively, playfully, humorously and meaningfully. It's a lot like the old "traditional is dying" argument. You can sit around and whine about traditional arts dying, or you work to perpetuate tradition.

That being said, I think Lucas is spot on with his comment above. :D

[Eric Olson]

I haven't been on this forum as much 1) because grad school eats all of my time and 2) because I put my training on hold to finish school.

But I do think this forum would do better if it was more actively moderated. I remember Empty Flower had a "been there done that" category and threads that were rehashes would get sent there in favor of fresh discussions.

In addition, when disagreements turn into personal attacks/**** fests those involved should be warned once and then banned. Yeah, it may be entertaining to the small minority of people that follow a flame war but I'd say in general it turns people off from joining and posting.

Regards,

EO

[Eric Olson]

P.S. And I do think social media, blogs and youtube especially have stolen some of the thunder. We used to spend a lot of time describing techniques on here, now its just a link to a video.

EO

[taai gihk yahn]

the real enemy of CMA is when it goes unchallenged.
exactly! as my sifu says, when the wind blows hard, it tells you how strong your root is; and in return, this strengthens the tree further...


In fencing, we have what we call "Salle Fencers" - those are people who are good in their salle d'armes (fencing guan, if you will) but can't fence successfully outside of it. They aren't exposed to outside competitors. Same goes with the forum here. It's all about exposure.
same goes for TCMA in general; so many of the "my art is too deadly for words' guys train within a very limited scope; short of getting into street fights, one of the best ways to test your stuff is to actively participate in "open mat" situations where you get to work with people who have no psychological investment in your success;


IMO CMA haters are a good thing. To a degree anyway.
A lot of times things that these people say can put certain aspects of ones training in a specific light. A light that can force one to scrutinize further what they are experiencing, comparitively to what others are doing, to decide if what they are doing is in fact helping them towards their goals.
there is, of course, an extent to what can be tolerated. That is the point where I read and just dont respond to drivel I feel is a waste of time responding too.
Its refreshing to have people coming in from all angles and giving their input.
I mean this is martial arts, defending ourselves and what we do is our business. Its all part of the training. Mental as well as physical.
Debating is a good thing.
Some people just go beyond actual debating sometimes and get childish. I just laugh when that happens, why let the internet and its evil cronies actually effect you.
the real problem is that far too many people still insist upon disagreeing with me...:p

seriously though - I am a big fan of TCMA, have been doing it for close to 20 yrs. now; and I was very lucky to study directly w/an "authentic" sifu (Chan Tai San) from the get go, because it just cut out so much of the crapolapo that many people are totally wound up in; after that, sniffing out the real thing versus TCMA silliness was a lot easier; one of the big CTS take-home messages was, if it works, use it; to wit, he was a big fan of "western" boxing, had nothing bad to say about it; likewise, to be a well-rounded MAist these days, there are things that it would behoove one to study outside of TCMA (BJJ comes to mind); anyone who can't see past their TCMA blinders and realize that there are somethings TCMA just doesn't do (or do all that well) is deluded; unfortunately, even the "good" stuff is often surrounded by a lot of padding that was put in place by sifus based on economic necessity more than anything else; and finally, a lot of the claims regarding the incontrovertible uniqueness of so-called "internal" arts
is really irritating: look, taiji, bagua, etc. - these arts prefer to focus on certain types of skill sets and emphasizes body awareness early on; and without question, these attributes (listening, sticking, etc.) are valuable (even in something like BJJ they have relevance); but they are not unique, and these attributes can be acquired with other methodologies by other practitioners of other arts; finally, the whole blind adherence to doing a form exactly the same way it was taught to you because it's been like that for 3,000 years is something that needs to go, because that is what leads to stagnation (of course, inventing a new form a week isn't the way to go either...);

we are at a unique point in the course of human history: the internet (including this forum, which IMHO is going strong) has allowed for a level of sharing and observation of arts from every corner of the world that even 20 years ago would not have been possible; as such, no art can hide in a corner and talk about how it's better, has secret stuff no one else does, can't be shown publicly, etc.; get over it - welcome to the world!


This forum is too deadly for the street.
this is getting sig'd...

[lkfmdc]

There was a wise man once, Taai Gihk Yaan knew him, and he shared with us the ultimate wisdom regarding the martial arts

"all the **** is the same"

I love when people carry on about how unique something is when the reality is it exists all over the place and they've just never gone out into the real world to find it

[taai gihk yahn]

There was a wise man once, Taai Gihk Yaan knew him, and he shared with us the ultimate wisdom regarding the martial arts
"all the **** is the same"
only an enlightened individual such as this could have devised the unstoppable art of Krock Chew, the motto of which is "Assume the defensive by immediately springing into the offensive.")


I love when people carry on about how unique something is when the reality is it exists all over the place and they've just never gone out into the real world to find it
personally, I luv the look on taiji guys faces when I tell them that high-level wrestlers, long the dumping ground for derision by all "serious" martial artists, train listening and sticking skills more effectively than they do...

[uki]

I've been noticing a drop in topics and responses on a lot of MA forums. Anybody else seeing the same thing?the old things pass away so that the new things can come into being. :)

[rogue]

There was a wise man once, Taai Gihk Yaan knew him, and he shared with us the ultimate wisdom regarding the martial arts

"all the **** is the same"

I love when people carry on about how unique something is when the reality is it exists all over the place and they've just never gone out into the real world to find it

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everybody else.

[Mr Punch]

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everybody else."I'M NOT!"



This forum is too deadly for itself. This is the Chuck Diesel of the forums.

BTW, it's not dead at all. 90% of the forums I've found on the web don't even have a post from the last three months.

[Lucas]

Thats because this forum is like the living dead. You have to take its head clean off. Fire might work, but im pretty sure this place is retardant.

[Reverend Tap]

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everybody else.

You are an unique and beautiful snowflake...and utterly indistinguishable from every other unique and beautiful snowflake in the blizzard.

[Mr Punch]

... but im pretty sure this place is retardant.
LOL, ain't that the truth!

[Lucas]

lol.

hey if you get bored you can always check this out (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4619) it really shows off Gene's good side.

[Reverend Tap]

Thats because this forum is like the living dead. You have to take its head clean off. Fire might work, but im pretty sure this place is retardant.

Amusing aside: according to Max Brooks' The Zombie Survival Handbook, the single most efficient and overall best weapon for dispatching the living dead is the monk's spade. TCMA FTW.

[Lucas]

Amusing aside: according to Max Brooks' The Zombie Survival Handbook, the single most efficient and overall best weapon for dispatching the living dead is the monk's spade. TCMA FTW.

hehe.

but hey, what if its a vampire? does the spade still win out, or do we need something faster?

;)

[IronFist]

Actually, a lot of the things I google search for turn up link to discussion on this forum.

That's pretty cool.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

only an enlightened individual such as this could have devised the unstoppable art of Krock Chew, the motto of which is "Assume the defensive by immediately springing into the offensive.")


personally, I luv the look on taiji guys faces when I tell them that high-level wrestlers, long the dumping ground for derision by all "serious" martial artists, train listening and sticking skills more effectively than they do...

Sounds like a barbaric art but quite effective as well..

Hmmm, would you attack someone if they asked you for, I don't know,..."the time of day" perhaps??

[David Jamieson]

Sounds like a barbaric art but quite effective as well..

Hmmm, would you attack someone if they asked you for, I don't know,..."the time of day" perhaps??

guy #1: "Excuse me, do you have the time?"

guy #2" haiiii yaahhhhhhhh

[lkfmdc]

The correct response to the "time of day" scenario involves an automatic umbrella and a screw driver, but I've already said too much

[taai gihk yahn]

guy #1: "Excuse me, do you have the time?"

guy #2" haiiii yaahhhhhhhh

you are obviously not versed in this art, as you allowed the aggressor to actually finish the question before dispatching him;

[taai gihk yahn]

The correct response to the "time of day" scenario involves an automatic umbrella and a screw driver, but I've already said too much

I thought that was in response to the "ninja credit card" scenario...

[lkfmdc]

NO NO NO

"Ninja Credit Cards" require the Chinese rattlesnake response

silly