Fooled by A Charlatan

[Tainan Mantis]

Once while still living in Taiwan Shifu began to relate some stories of the various masters and their bogus skills that he had encountered over the years.

The holy grail of martial applications was considered by some to be the ability to shoot energy from your fingers or hands. The ability to shoot energy from a distance so that you defeat the opponent without making any sort of contact.

ENERGY PROJECTION IN NOVELS

Before I go on to detail his experience with this I would like to mention what I have come up with relative to this skill.

The two most famous martial epics are Xi You Ji, otherwise known as the story of the Monkey and Shui Hu Zhuan, Water Marsh Epic.

In the first book it is overflowing with details of magical kung fu skills, yet after having read the book 4 or 5 times I don't recall a mention being made of this skill. Instead it is about super human strength, flight and the ability to transform yourself from one creature to another.

In the second story it is very little magic and just super skill, strength and speed.

So, the skills of shooting energy at a distance, while having existed on some ancient novels, is a popular belief among some folks in Asia these days, most likely owing to HK movie industry.

FINDING THE MAGIC MASTER

My Shifu found a master to teach him this skill and he practiced it diligently for three years.

After three years of constant training he came to the sad discovery that it was totally bogus and the 'master' was collecting tuition for teaching fake skills.

A HAPPY PERSPECTIVE

Shifu did not have a bitter memory of being cheated like this. Shifu himself thought it was a bit funny and noted that even though he never learned how to shoot energy the training did make his strikes much faster.

[Three Harmonies]

Glad he made something positive out of it.
Unfortunately many peoples perspectives are different. I know from my own personal experience I have wasted a lot of money, and more importantly, time on BS in the martial arts. Money can always be made back, time is forever though. That is the part that is most disheartening to those of us burned.

Jake

[Lucas]

Well, truth be told Ryu first learned of the Hado from the old Tea Master in China.

:p

[SimonM]

Xiyouji has lots of wierd stuff but I don't recall any kamehameha wave in it.

[EarthDragon]

Tainan, If i can disagree here. I have long beena realist about CMA while the stories are cool they are video gameish at best.

However all that changed when i met Yen Chu Fang form Beijing my current qigong teacher. She practices Jin gon Tzu Li gong.

it is a medical skill which projects qi form the fingers and hands into others to re-align their umnbalancement.
I have witnessed first hand this skill on thousands of occasions on thousands of people including my self.
ie She can project qi into my leg while i slide a 9" steel wire through my muscle out the opposuite side without pain bleeding etc etc. this is no palour trick i can assure you just a demonstration of skill. So its not all fake while im sure there fakes out there she is the real deal. thoughts?

[SimonM]

Has your qi-projecting guru ever successfully applied her techniques as advertised on a skeptical third party with no emotional investment in her success?

If so have you suggested she participate in the James Randi challenge?

[Lucas]

hehe

well in the street fighter 2 Series he met the old tea master who used his qi to heal himself. Ryu saw his qi and the old man was impressed, and gave him the scroll of Tamo. When in a thai prison he met Sagat. Sagat sent him to find dhalsim. dhalsim teaches ryu how to harness his ki.

But hey, dont get me wrong, im not obsessed. I watched this last night.

But I know that the storyline does differ.

That fight with Ken and Vega was bad ass though.:D

[EarthDragon]

simon,
obviously Its not hypnosis you not need to beleive in what she does to know it works there are many sceptics as well there is just plain stupidity and ignorance.

I'm not a kid nor a new bie to MA see my background but to answer your questions.....yes thousands of times. She has been invited to speak at the swiss medical counsulate 3 years in a row and famous and world reknown. she also works with rosewell cancer institute in NY and johsn hopkins.

to the others who poke fun your replies will not be answered seriously.

[SimonM]

Ah but that wasn't my question Earth Dragon.

My question was this:

Have you, with your own eyes, seen your instructor perform "qi projection" feats on a skeptical and uninterested third party.

If your answer is yes has she considered taking the James Randi challenge?

[Lucas]

wouldnt there be some skeptics at the swiss medical counsulate ?

I dont know or really care one way or the other in regards to the discussion. But how many people are at that consulate? They cant all be TCM students.

[SimonM]

The question I would hold in counter is when she spoke to the Swiss Medical Society did she A) give a demonstration of Qi projection and B) select a disinterested and skeptical third party as a subject for said demonstration.

See Lucas there are several confounding psycological factors in stuff like this that have been seen time and again by Qi projectionists.

Remember "The human stun gun"?

He could knock over and knock out his students under the condition that they could see him "doing" so.

He could not do so to any journalist who visited his school.

The students were responding to psychological queues that, yes, are simmilar to hypnosis (although that is a gross simplification) and as such were reacting as if this charlatan really did have that power.

If I have a student committed to my belief system and I tell them that A will cause B than they will very frequently exhibit B when A is applied even though A is entirely non-causal.

[EarthDragon]

lucas
for those of you who are not familar with the swiss medical consulate. They are not TCM nor martial artists but medical doctors, professors and medical experts leading the field in medical knowledge practices and surgical alternatives. they fly her to zurich annually with some other high level qigong masters from China and Japan to understand the concepts and practices of qigong and how it can help the AMA SMA and other organizations looking for alternatives to the scapal.

simon,
she usualally practices on these types of people as most of her patients are not MA nor even know her. They dont undestand the fitrst thing about qigong or how it works. She even has several patients that are in coma states that she vists weekly. My wife is a doctor and I am very knowledgeable to the western practices of medicine. This i can assure you is a complete medical type of qigong and very effective. I have seen it cure bells palsy, shrink tumors, cancer, sickle cell anemia, MS, crabae disease, lou gerigs, and countless others. her skills have been published in many countires and she has even been interviewed in Japan on thier 20/20 60 minites type programing and even here in buffalo on AM Buffalo. she is by far one of the worlds leading authorites on qigong and its practical uses for medicine.

Again i am not here to prove anything just to respond to Tainan's post. Dont get me wrong I have seen the BS crap pull out by dillman and the other fakes out there who are trying to make a claim to fame... THEY SUCK and can only do thier crap to thier students. Angela Yen does it for the sick, she has no students and is not intertested in other approvals and doesnt charge for her treatments

[TenTigers]

well, couldn't she use an extra million dollars? If not for herself, then for charity?
Like, the Starving Jewish Sifu's from Huntington Association?

Roswell Cancer Institute? What is that, research on healing aliens? Shouldn't we be concentrationg on our own species before we go wasting the taxpayers' money on aliens with cancer?
That's just rediculous.

[diego]

Once while still living in Taiwan Shifu began to relate some stories of the various masters and their bogus skills that he had encountered over the years.

The holy grail of martial applications was considered by some to be the ability to shoot energy from your fingers or hands. The ability to shoot energy from a distance so that you defeat the opponent without making any sort of contact.

ENERGY PROJECTION IN NOVELS

Before I go on to detail his experience with this I would like to mention what I have come up with relative to this skill.

The two most famous martial epics are Xi You Ji, otherwise known as the story of the Monkey and Shui Hu Zhuan, Water Marsh Epic.

In the first book it is overflowing with details of magical kung fu skills, yet after having read the book 4 or 5 times I don't recall a mention being made of this skill. Instead it is about super human strength, flight and the ability to transform yourself from one creature to another.

In the second story it is very little magic and just super skill, strength and speed.

So, the skills of shooting energy at a distance, while having existed on some ancient novels, is a popular belief among some folks in Asia these days, most likely owing to HK movie industry.

FINDING THE MAGIC MASTER

My Shifu found a master to teach him this skill and he practiced it diligently for three years.

After three years of constant training he came to the sad discovery that it was totally bogus and the 'master' was collecting tuition for teaching fake skills.

A HAPPY PERSPECTIVE

Shifu did not have a bitter memory of being cheated like this. Shifu himself thought it was a bit funny and noted that even though he never learned how to shoot energy the training did make his strikes much faster.


Interesting thread, thanks for sharing :cool:

[diego]

Has your qi-projecting guru ever successfully applied her techniques as advertised on a skeptical third party with no emotional investment in her success?

If so have you suggested she participate in the James Randi challenge?
dude you like the tcma security gaurd lmao wow you think everyone is so stupid they just post things for you to disagree with...you ever think peeps is bored and just want to chat you ****ing lame.

don't respond this is Tanian's thread.


twat

[EarthDragon]

10tigers, I hope your post was just joshing I am sure it was as i have read your posts before and I know you know better plus all my jewish friends are wealthy if not them then thier parents are and they get the money anywas .....therefore for the others whom are not familar roswell is the leading cancer research insititue in NY.

The reason i hate posting on the main board is there seems to be more jokers out here than martial artists, dont get me wrong i have a sense of humor but i go onmyspace for that.
I respect Tainan and only wished to rebuttle his thread... but carry on its Christmas

[TenTigers]

well, Chanuka at least.

[Tainan Mantis]

Hi Earth,
Not much to comment as I have not seen her or heard of her.

In Taiwan I have seen a lot of stuff first hand.

Regardless of what they can do, normal or not, there is always a long line of people for the best doctors.

You just can't keep it a secret.

[EarthDragon]

what about Shu ming? He is one of the most famous qi gong masters in the world and he uses qi projection a differnt kind than Anglea Yen but still very effective.

[Yum Cha]

Well, firstly, we all know that we don't know all. Never will.

What we choose to believe is ours to choose from the massive amount of data out there.

Also, some people are more comfortable with unknown than others who need an anchor or foundation from which to operate. CG Yung and his universal concepts of mankind, religion and its impact on different people, etc.

Concerning the iron wire through the muscle without blood and pain.

In India, you see people sticking all kinds of skewers through their faces without blood, or you would assume pain. Part of a Faith ritual.

I used to watch a white busker do the same on the shopping mall, sticking skewers through his cheeks and tongue without blood and passing a hat. Hardly a meditative state.

Physiological or Psychological still remains the big question, but in practical terms, it doesn't really matter, as the end result is the same. "Use your power for good Luke" is about all that matters to me. Real "power" or the power of suggestion - does it matter if you get results.

Then you get a guy like Doo Wai posting his trick with the smoke under his fingernails and calling it Chi Materialisation, and you just have to walk away shaking your head...

[TenTigers]

ever see Joo Bang Lee (Hwarangdo GM) put the skewers through his arm and hang the buckets of water from them? It's baloney.
If youtake the skin on the outside of your forearm, about two inches down from your elbow and pinch it-really dig yur nails into it, you can't really feel a thing.
There are hardly any nerves or blood vessels there. Anyone with the bawlz can do that trick.
Not to say that your Sifu isn't the real deal, but you need to watch out ofor what many people do as tricks.
Others include bending spears, swords, iron rebar, etc on their throats-a total parlor trick that anyone can do.
Walking on swords, beds of nails, etc also parlor tricks

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Then you get a guy like Doo Wai posting his trick with the smoke under his fingernails and calling it Chi Materialisation, and you just have to walk away shaking your head...

I'm no fan of Doo Wai, no secret. Where is the video of this? I have never heard of this before.

[Gru Bianca]

Well, firstly, we all know that we don't know all. Never will.

What we choose to believe is ours to choose from the massive amount of data out there.

Also, some people are more comfortable with unknown than others who need an anchor or foundation from which to operate. CG Yung and his universal concepts of mankind, religion and its impact on different people, etc.

Concerning the iron wire through the muscle without blood and pain.

In India, you see people sticking all kinds of skewers through their faces without blood, or you would assume pain. Part of a Faith ritual.

I used to watch a white busker do the same on the shopping mall, sticking skewers through his cheeks and tongue without blood and passing a hat. Hardly a meditative state.

Physiological or Psychological still remains the big question, but in practical terms, it doesn't really matter, as the end result is the same. "Use your power for good Luke" is about all that matters to me. Real "power" or the power of suggestion - does it matter if you get results.

Then you get a guy like Doo Wai posting his trick with the smoke under his fingernails and calling it Chi Materialisation, and you just have to walk away shaking your head...


Very well said. Wonderful post

Regards,

Luca

[Yum Cha]

I'm no fan of Doo Wai, no secret. Where is the video of this? I have never heard of this before.

Hi Mike,
It was out there, we worked it over in a thread a couple of years back, complete with the additional links to the magic trick supplier with the "Dazzle your friends with smoke shooting from your fingertips" powder.... Just add water....etc, etc.

By the way, there are still a few pixels, maybe 100 wide, for you to increase the size of your sig banner. You could even make it flash in case anybody misses it....:p

[EarthDragon]

Again I'm not posting to prove anything to any of you. That may sound harsh but its like trying to tell people the earth is not flat after you sailed and know differently.

I know people out there try to compare and make sense out of what they dont understand and make stupid comparisons to justify thier ignorance.
this is obvious by ten tigers post sorry man but when i do this demo it is a wire that i put through the center of my calf muscle or i have went through my quatracept harldy through skin with no nerve endings, again if you dont know the truth please dont elementarly attemt to debunk it.
Also it is not me who is bypassing the pain receptors or stopping the brain from firing the snyapsys from feeling pain... it is her.
I have tried it when she is not putting the qi through me and I feel the ***** of the wire as i poke and i will not attempot to slide it through my leg without her. It is not power of suggestion of a trained trick as the camera man from channle 7 did it as well and he said it was a trick....

For those of you who feel the need to not beleive based from not understanding thats OK, ignorance is bliss. Your not at that level yet.
But if you did know you would realize how silly you sound comparing things which are obvioulsy gimicks, hoxes and fake ways to get their 15 minutes of fame.

She doesnt have thousands of cured patients, and students in 4 countries because what she does is a trick. Trust me until you have felt witnessed or seens a demonstration its impossible to say it doesnt work.

[SimonM]

simon,
she usualally practices on these types of people as most of her patients are not MA nor even know her. They dont undestand the fitrst thing about qigong or how it works. She even has several patients that are in coma states that she vists weekly.

I'm sure having a faith healer sit with their comatose relatives makes the people who aren't in comas much happier.


My wife is a doctor and I am very knowledgeable to the western practices of medicine. This i can assure you is a complete medical type of qigong and very effective. I have seen it cure bells palsy, shrink tumors, cancer, sickle cell anemia, MS, crabae disease,

PROVIDE PROOF!!! Curing Multiple Sclerosis! That should be big news since it's presently incurable.



lou gherigs,


WTF?!?!?!? This is national enquirer time. Has she thought about paying Hawking a visit?

[EarthDragon]

simon, I have recieved 4 PM's about you and thier right....your posts are not even worth a response as you are full of comments but not of facts. However I dont mind carrying on a conversation or opposing dicussion but to post comments like....

I'm sure having a faith healer sit with their comatose relatives makes the people who aren't in comas much happier.

What do her treaments have to do with thier family members feelings? this comment is just juvinelle. she visits and does work on many patients some come out of the thier state but almost 90% at least have reactions to her stimulating thier the brain waves raising saratonin levels.

This is to answer your comment about doing it on non willing students.
I hardly think people who are not fully awake and have never met her but still have clinical recorded reactions to her treaments qualifies.


faith healer??? this is just obsurd, faith has nothing to do with it. its not religon


PROVIDE PROOF!!! Curing Multiple Sclerosis! That should be big news since it's presently incurable.

LOL its is big news MS is not an incurable disease please read AMA associated press and the medicinal journals from Johns Hopkins in baltimore MD from 1996- present. This is just a uneducated and unresearched statement.


Quote:
lou gherigs,

WTF?!?!?!? This is national enquirer time. Has she thought about paying Hawking a visit?

7 people in NY alone have recoverd and reversed symptoms after her treaments mind you they are sometimes twice a week for many months but facts are facts.

Im sure if you contact the Millard Filmore hospital in Williamsville NY you can find these facts out before you make uneducated statements.

Your posts have no basis other than your personal opinons, this is hardly worth anything to anyone other than yourself.

An old saying goes..... its always better to keep your mouth shut and let people think your ignorant then open it and prove them right.

[SimonM]

I'd rather be seen as an overly skeptical curmudgeon than get taken in by a snake oil salesperson... as you appear to have been.

[EarthDragon]

PS your only in london I invite you to come down and meet her fory ourself and have a treament for free.

Once you feel her qi radiate through you perhaps you might have a diffent opinon. If you are so a****et about qigong not working whats your excuse not to come down and prove her worng. I will pay for your gas and hotel.

prove yourself wonrg dont take my word for it... simply cross the border

[SimonM]

You paying my bus fare? Because my broke @ss doesn't take a day off work and pay for bus money just to disprove a charlatain.

No known cure for Lou Gehrig's Disease (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amyotrophic_lateral_sclerosis#Treatment)

No known cure for Multiple Sclerosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_sclerosis#Treatment)

[TenTigers]

E.D.
I am not saying she is a charletan or using parlor tricks, just being concerned that you have a watchful eye.
I have seen things that to this day boggle my mind. My ex was an amazing healer and when she was diagnosed with non-hodgkins lymphoma,stage 4, was told to "get her house in order" she went off chemo, and did natural healing-juicing, ch'i-gung,cleansing, and leatrile. She has been cancer-free for over ten years.
Amazing healers are like Gung-Fu fighters-we know they are out there, just not in the public eye. Those that know, know.
I for one, would like to see more info.Especially cases with MS and Cancer.
(I'm not interested in Lou Gehrig's disease, as I don't play baseball.)

[SimonM]

(i'm not interested in lou gehrig's disease, as i don't play baseball.)

rotflmfao! 12345

[EarthDragon]

Simon, I have been in the MA for 26 years. Trust me I have seen my share of so called qi gong demo's , iron palm breakers and masters of whatever thier claim is. I Anglea yen is the real deal.
You must realize that some things are ture whether you choose to believe them or not.
Also beofre aking your points or argueing you should research the topic in which you are discusing so you can make acurate and educated staments and assesments.
My wife is a cardiologist and was a sceptic of qigong until angela did a treament on her cousin who has spinal bifida. He has never been able to touch his toes. Anglea did 3 treaments on him and she said try to touch your toes.. he replied i cant , she said go on try now. He was able to get teh finger tips to touch his boots right after teh seccion. Now 2 days later he could not again as his spine tightened up. But when he feels ill he still goes to her for treament.

So your thinking is a medical doctor and her ill cousin are just imagining this feeling? touching his toes was proof to them and they were skeptics as well.

Sure i wil pay your bus fare. and you can come down on a saturday so you dont miss work if your game.

PS wikopedia is not certified medical proof of anything.

[SimonM]

I say to you what I said to Uki when he said that old "don't trust Wikipedia" line:

The article is heavily cited; tell me where you feel it is incomplete based on the available citations and I'd be happy to look into the suggested inadequacy of the references provided.

[EarthDragon]

10tigers,
thank for the post. As I said to Simon i have been around the MA for 26 years. I study iron palm and do actual breaks and have seen fakers do breaks that were tricks I'm no newbie aqnd can tell right away. and if i had not experienced it first hand, seen her acomplishments and watch her be flown all ove the world and countless TV shows and books writtne about her. i too would be skeptical.

Anglea always tells her patients to stop chemo as it kills the qi and body that are needed to transform the cells back to benign out of their milignant stage.
I am happy for your ex wife and glad she di things her way.

But everyone must realize that just beucse you dont believe in it doenst mean it doesnt exist.
Ask some people about ghosts and they will say there no such thing. they cant be that ignorant, they say well i havent seen one...... does that mean they arent there? this is narrow minded thinking in its best form.

not in the public eye is correct nor does she charge or feel compleled to prove anything to anyone she is quite humble and she just does what God gave her.

She has been famous in Beijing for many years and serval books have been written.She has only been in the US since 1995.
She even played with shuming in Beijing park and during a Japanese interview about chinese qi gong masters. does anyone want to disprove Shu ming??? I think not.

however your comment was very cruel out of line about Lou gerigs disease as I know people on this board whos father died from it. Lets be a little more sypathetic

[EarthDragon]

Simon if your 2 seconds of research and only evidence is a online Encyclopedia then my disccusion with you is over.

My God im dealing with children here

[SimonM]

So you can't find anything to refute, no avenues of falsifiable research you would like me to pursue?

Figures.

[TenTigers]

sorry you found my comment offensive. My humor runs the gamut from dry wit, to downright offensive. However, also consider the source; I am compassionate and empathic, but I never take life too seriously. I went through he11 with my ex-staying up with her, putting her to bed and crying myself to sleep in fetal position on the kitchen floor. But we got through it. Many times, our humor was all we had.
She was one of the lucky ones. We have also known people who were not so lucky. Sometimes, when my ex would work with someone, and they did not make it (usually it was due to the fact that they only sought help, after they were too far gone) she would cry for days, blaming herself.
Still others, (one, a good friend, another a sister in law) just did not believe in alternative medicine, and obediantly followed their doctors and stayed on chemo-and died.
(Sometimes I think it's a coin toss-many people have done ok with chemo.)
It is hard to sit and watch someone make the decision not to try anything and everything.
My own cousin, a teacher, published author,Master's degree, has MS. I tried to show her the articles about MS and aspertame, but she refuses to give up her diet soda. I watched her go from cane to walker to wheelchair.
Sometimes, I just don't get it.
So...life is precious, life is short, life has meaning
but if you laugh during the worst of times, you start to get a different perspective.

[EarthDragon]

10 tigers, your post did not offend me, just wanted to let you know others and families of posters on these boards who suffer from Lou gerigs might not find humor in your comment thats all.
I too think laughter is the best medicine but only if its doesnt hurt others. But nuff said.

I see many people like Simon who are skeptical but this is only from the ignorance of not knowing.... nothing else. People are scared of what they dont know and refuse to look any ****her.

I knew a patient who asked her doctor about qigong and he called it hoakey. Then after many years of suffering she passed. 4 years later sends his pateints to Angela only after 3 other doctors told him whatever she does works.

Remember medicine in this counrty is only 263 years old. the chinses have known medicine for 400 centuries.

Granted American medicine is excellent for what it is, but its surely not the be all and end all of medical practice. there are other roads and to think ther isnt is just plain ignorant.

[SimonM]

400 centuries?!?!?!?!??!

Do you really believe that?

The most optimistic estimates for Chinese civilization give it about 5000 years (50 centuries).

And furthermore to suggest that CMA has an unbroken medical tradition for even that time and Europe does not is to disregard the fact that there were plenty of herbalists and doctors throughout Europe's history... some good, some quacks.

Just like China.

Then again you believe in healing incurable diseases with the force (http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/sea0222l.jpg) so what should I expect? :D

[EarthDragon]

Simon sorry that was a typo yes I meant 40.



Then again you believe in healing incurable diseases with the force so what should I expect?


My belieifes have nothing to do with facts. Until you know all of them I afraid this convesation cant more forward. Again research the subject you are arguing and perhaps others may take you seriously. Your only bit of evidence is a 2 second google on wikopedia and your personal opinon. This is harldy grounds for discussion.

If you dont believe in qi than explian your exsistence?
you are alive arent you?
you do have biomagnatic properties dont you?
you feel tenergy when otyher touch you dont you? y
you can feel someone walk into a room cant you?
this are all feeling in qi moving touching and changing or wait you call it the force again understand what you are talking about do some research, study in school, educate yourself first.
are you versed in what you are trying to convince your self of? what degress do have you obtained? or are you just stuck in one frame of mind and wont let any other thing in? Im really confused as to your stubborness.

Plus how can anyone take you seriously with a purple octopus for an avatar?

[SimonM]

Interpreting unconscious and intuitive processing of sensory data for a seventh (sixth) sense is an error.

[Drake]

Simon sorry that was a typo yes I meant 40.



Then again you believe in healing incurable diseases with the force so what should I expect?


My belieifes have nothing to do with facts. Until you know all of them I afraid this convesation cant more forward. Again research the subject you are arguing and perhaps others may take you seriously. Your only bit of evidence is a 2 second google on wikopedia and your personal opinon. This is harldy grounds for discussion.

If you dont believe in qi than explian your exsistence?
you are alive arent you?
you do have biomagnatic properties dont you?
you feel tenergy when otyher touch you dont you? y
you can feel someone walk into a room cant you?
this are all feeling in qi moving touching and changing or wait you call it the force again understand what you are talking about do some research, study in school, educate yourself first.
are you versed in what you are trying to convince your self of? what degress do have you obtained? or are you just stuck in one frame of mind and wont let any other thing in? Im really confused as to your stubborness.

Plus how can anyone take you seriously with a purple octopus for an avatar?


That has to be the biggest and best "burden of proof" logical fallacy I've ever seen. It's on you to prove that your beliefs are the reason things are the way they are, not the other way around. That's like... a reverse scientific method.

[SimonM]

Especially since most of those phenomena are more easily explained through our working understanding of sensory perception without dependence on some mystical ether. I wish I was at home... I'd find more jedi jokes to post here... :p

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Methinks you doth protest too much.

The more defensive someone gets about a subject, the less secure they are about it. The less secure they are about it, the more likely it is that there is something unbalanced about their own perspective and understanding.

Maybe, deep down, they know that what they believe is not real... but their ego has such a vested interest in their belief system that they can't accept anything that goes against it. So they're left feeling insecure, constantly needing to defend their beliefs not only to others, but also to themselves. In the end, that's what matters: telling other people they're stupid or ignorant is just another way of reaffirming your own beliefs, which are constantly on shaky ground.

If it's real, it's real. No need to defend reality. A mountain's a mountain and a lake's a lake.

[SimonM]

I'm not defensive in the slightest.

I'm bored at work.

And, honestly, I'd like magic to be real.

And let's face it, qi projection...


just another word for magic.

I spent a long time studying this stuff from every possible angle, it was a bit of a fascination of mine about 7-10 years ago.

And it's, sadly, not real.

It's hokum.

So, no, I don't protest too much. I just want to save other people from wasting time chasing fantasy as if it were reality.

It does make for nice stories though.

I think star wars is very entertaining... it's just not real.

[Drake]

I'd love to be able to cast "magic missile"!

[SimonM]

I cast magic missile on the darkness!

[Xiao3 Meng4]

I'm not defensive in the slightest.

I'm bored at work.

And, honestly, I'd like magic to be real.

And let's face it, qi projection...


just another word for magic.

I spent a long time studying this stuff from every possible angle, it was a bit of a fascination of mine about 7-10 years ago.

And it's, sadly, not real.

It's hokum.

So, no, I don't protest too much. I just want to save other people from wasting time chasing fantasy as if it were reality.

It does make for nice stories though.

I think star wars is very entertaining... it's just not real.

Haha I wasn't even referring to you specifically. :)

...Nice protest, though. ;)

Nah, I have no problem w/ your "pics or it ain't real" attitude. It's healthier than the "A friend of a friend who studies under a teacher who's guru is the direct inheritor of an unbroken 3000 year old tradition told me so it must be true" attitude.

BTW didja read the endorphin study?

[Drake]

I cast magic missile on the darkness!

ok, ok, there's a elf in front of you.

WOAH!

[SimonM]

Haha I wasn't even referring to you specifically. :)

...Nice protest, though. ;)

Nah, I have no problem w/ your "pics or it ain't real" attitude. It's healthier than the "A friend of a friend who studies under a teacher who's guru is the direct inheritor of an unbroken 3000 year old tradition told me so it must be true" attitude.

BTW didja read the endorphin study?

Not yet, but I intend to.
Can't follow links from work and rarely have time to do KFM stuff when not at work. It's on my to-do list. You'll note that I have suspended arguing about acupuncture pending reading it. But Qi projection... completely different ball of wax. ;)

[Xiao3 Meng4]

But Qi projection... completely different ball of wax. ;)

...Ball of Qi, you mean.

HyyyyUken!

[SimonM]

I see your hadoken and raise you a kamehameha wave!

[EarthDragon]

qi projection qi manipulation and or moving and controling your qi is not someting you have to believe in... it just is...... that fact.

You either understand it or you dont its that simple. Thier are many cultures that understand qi, learn to harness it, control it and then to move it or project it...... this has been going on for thousands of years.

AMA never understood accupuncture or how it works, they do now. and it is considered a viable form a medicine and treament, yet there are still those who beacuse of their lack of understanding dimiss it.

Hell in the 50's bone setting was a joke and thought to be a hoax with no medical benfits what so ever.

her 1000's of patients wouldnt be still comming or reffering if they themselves didnt feel something right? if you went somewhere for treament and you felt it was fake or did nothing would you continue to go?

All of you are basing your opinons on your personal experience thats not good enough for and argument.

[SimonM]

No.

It just isn't.

The burden of proof falls upon you to prove it.

Testimonials and references to all the people your guru claims to have spoken to do not constitute proof.

Name-dropping Johns Hopkins hospital... not proof.

Mentioning your guru presenting at a seminar in Switzerland, a country known to be open to "alternative therapies"... not proof.

The fact that you claim that your wife is a doctor... not proof.

My aunt is a doctor. She would call chi blasts total hokum.

Furthermore you are basing your own claims upon... essentially... ESP and upon what can, through the application of occam's razor in the most classical of senses (the elimination of unnecessary entities) be reasonably discounted to the operation of other senses.

Oh and talking about how many patients your guru has, even if your numbers are accurate and not an inflation, not proof.

After all, here are some other figures for you:

Estimated membership in the Unification Church (moonies): between 100,000 and 2,000,000
Estimated membership in the Church of Scientology: approx. 8,000,000

[Drake]

Science would be so easy if all you had to say was "It just is. People have believed in it for thousands of years"

People also believed a god drug the sun across the sky, that the world was held up by a really strong guy, that mountains were gods, that electroshock therapy cured mental disorders, and that aluminum caused Alzheimers. Quite frankly, human opinion based on an emotional argument usually carries some serious credibility issues.

A lot of people also sacrificed people in order to appease the gods. And because of that, 99% of the time, the local volcano, hurricane, or earthquake didn't happen. I guess that works too?

[Drake]

And if qi blasts were real, I PROMISE you the Army would've made it into a large-scale tank-like weapon. :eek:

[Lucas]

People also believed a god drug the sun across the sky, that the world was held up by a really strong guy, that mountains were gods,

what exactly are you trying to tell me here :eek:

[Drake]

what exactly are you trying to tell me here :eek:

It's ok... the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause are real.

[Lucas]

ok, sweet. sucker better not leave me coal again this year. i hate that.

[SimonM]

Remember that if he sends you a lump of coal he just expects you to use your IP to crush it into a diamond.

And then you can use that diamond to focus your qi blast into a lazer with which to smite your enemies!

So a lump of coal is an indication that Santa wants you to be the successor to the evil overlord Xenu!

[Tainan Mantis]

I Hereby proclaim this thread to be off topic!

[Lucas]

If I become Xenu's successor, do I have to be evil?

[SimonM]

Have you ever heard of a GOOD intergalactic overlord?

And, bah, who is the initiation of the thread to say that our half-mad musings are off topic... all high and mighty just because he started the thread. ;)

[Drake]

Seriously...how often do thread stay on topic here? The "I want my vote back" is so off course an army of homing pigeons couldn't bring it back...

[bawang]

My left testicle has enlarged

[Lucas]

My left testicle has enlarged

that might not be so good.

[Lucas]

When all else fails... (http://api.ning.com/files/eEsfQQUGv*rJ5-iWYAAMbVomvax4sgAsl47OgvgIF6A_/ninja.jpg)

[Eddie]

Earth Dragon,
Please don’t see my post as disrespectful to your teacher.

I’m curious to know, what exactly is Qi? I know all the explanations and stuff, and read most of the books out on qigong, but so far the closest thing to compare it with would be some kind of electricity, right? In that case, it should be easily replicated by scientists? If what you say is true (and Im not saying its not), shouldn’t they (being scientists) be able to ‘harness’ or capture her qi in order to analyze it to figure out what its composed of?

I’m not a science guy at all, just trying to think of it logically. Oh.. yeah.. and im tired, had a late night last night, so excuse my gibberish.

If they can analyze it, they can replicate it. If they can replicate it, they could use it to cure more people. If your teacher dies, she takes the power with her. What good would that do?

[EarthDragon]

Eddie i will answer your question because of the sincerity and valitity of it.

What is qi? scientifically speaking i would have to say anatomical bioelectric energy of some kind.



In that case, it should be easily replicated by scientists?

There have been instrumentaion on measuring this energy yes. so to answer your question they have.


If they can analyze it, they can replicate it. If they can replicate it, they could use it to cure more people. If your teacher dies, she takes the power with her. What good would that do?

Everyone has this power its life... its controling the nautural rythms on the brain waves and electrical current that runs from the crerebral cortex to the sacrum.

Its like clarevoyancy. everyone has this power some are just more in tune with themselves. You can learn how to become more clarevoyant just as you can learn how to become more educated.

8 years ago a scientist claimed he could make enegy out of salt water and that it contains the power to run engines, hydro elelctrical plants, etc etc. they said there was no way. How? wherers the proof? theres no way to scientically measre the enegry salt water produces???

You see just because there hanst been a machine invented to measure qi doesnt mean its not measureable or exists or can be controled or moved or anything else.

It just amazes me how close minded people can be...

PS I know what i know and dont have to prove anything to anyone.Thats where you guys are confused. I dont give a shiit if you understand or not i can only lead a horse to drink.

I love how you guys compare this to star wars and other video games i can now see who I am dealing with.

[Drake]

Well, now since you are comparing it to being clairvoyant, I am moving into Nostradamus-fu ridicule.

[EarthDragon]

I was simply comparing the power of the brain and its capabilites and how people can use or get in tune with it when others cant.
Why can some people do things others cant if we are all equal 2 eyes to ears one brain etc etc.

[Drake]

I was simply comparing the power of the brain and its capabilites and how people can use or get in tune with it when others cant.
Why can some people do things others cant if we are all equal 2 eyes to ears one brain etc etc.

Because someone cannot perform calculus, does not equate into another being clairvoyant. Honestly, this whole thread is a lesson in logical fallacies. We KNOW that some people are slow, and some are brilliant. However, NONE are clairvoyant, or else we'd never be surprised by all the crappy stuff going on in the world. Seems everyone is psychic AFTER the fact. Sure, you predicted that.... riiiight.

Biggest lesson is not to take extraordinary physical prowess for magic, and blinding fast speed as a "qi blast" They simply moved faster than you could see. That alone deserves applause, but don't elevate them to sorcerer level. I thought we got over that in the middle ages.

[EarthDragon]

Drake

Your telling me no one is clairvoyant? ever?


Biggest lesson is not to take extraordinary physical prowess for magic, and blinding fast speed as a "qi blast"

what do all you think of when you say qi blast? I hear this a lot is this what you think it is? or is this to poke fun at what you dont understand?

what is an aurra? what could be your explination of an invisiable color surronding you... I bet you skeptics dont believe in that either right?Thier no such thing.... LOL tell me you dont.........however people knew about this for thousands of years ..... then came along came Semyon Kirlian, and these skeptics were proved wrong.

Can you measure gravity? can you see wind?

no you cant, but you now know they exsit. You can measure thier pull or thier speed but what about before thier were instrumentation to measure gravitational pull does this mean it didnt exsit? see how silly you all are when you think this way and swear qi doesnt exsist?

Dont go through life so narrow minded, you cant see very much looking like that.............. try watching "down the rabbit hole" and open up a little perhaps you might become happier people.

[Drake]

Drake

Your telling me no one is clairvoyant? ever?


Biggest lesson is not to take extraordinary physical prowess for magic, and blinding fast speed as a "qi blast"

what do all you think of when you say qi blast? I hear this a lot is this what you think it is? or is this to poke fun at what you dont understand?

what is an aurra? what could be your explination of an invisiable color surronding you... I bet you skeptics dont believe in that either right?Thier no such thing.... LOL tell me you dont.........however people knew about this for thousands of years ..... then came along came Semyon Kirlian, and these skeptics were proved wrong.

Can you measure gravity? can you see wind?

no you cant, but you now know they exsit. You can measure thier pull or thier speed but what about before thier were instrumentation to measure gravitational pull does this mean it didnt exsit? see how silly you all are when you think this way and swear qi doesnt exsist?

Dont go through life so narrow minded, you cant see very much looking like that.............. try watching "down the rabbit hole" and open up a little perhaps you might become happier people.

1. No, I don't believe in clairvoyance, because a short look into it would reveal that it wouldn't be possible, even if the option were open for it to be.

2. Gravity and wind, despite being invisible to the naked eye, are not the same as presumed super-powers. Again, burden of proof logical fallacy. Gravity and wind are scientifically proven laws, measurable and quantifiable. Clairvoyance is front page of the Weekly World News. It WOULD be measurable and quantifiable if it existed, and silly little groups have tried and failed at it. You could have just as well said that "gravity and wind exist, but you can't see it, so that means (insert ANYTHING) exists." At least you can see hallucinations. Does that mean they have a better chance of being real?

And I am quite happy, thank you. And I don't need magic to get there.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

what is an aurra? what could be your explination of an invisiable color surronding you... I bet you skeptics dont believe in that either right?Thier no such thing.... LOL tell me you dont.........however people knew about this for thousands of years ..... then came along came Semyon Kirlian, and these skeptics were proved wrong.


A few things:
1) invisible colour???? Think about that phrase for a minute.
2) Kirlian photography has been PROVEN to be fraught with artifacts and not at all reliable. The same goes for electric acupoint finders.
3) "seeing things" - be it prana, auras, or ghosts - is related to Liver and Gallbladder dysfunction in Chinese Medicine and is treatable.


Can you measure gravity? can you see wind?
Yes, through its effects.


no you cant, but you now know they exsit. You can measure thier pull or thier speed but what about before thier were instrumentation to measure gravitational pull does this mean it didnt exsit? see how silly you all are when you think this way and swear qi doesnt exsist?


Qi "exists" in the same way that emotions "exist." They're qualitative, not quantitative. Qi is a relational identifier, not a physical (or metaphysical) entity.



Dont go through life so narrow minded, you cant see very much looking like that.............. try watching "down the rabbit hole" and open up a little perhaps you might become happier people.

Still defensive, eh? Maybe you'd benefit from clearing your head of all that you know about Qi for a while, too.

[EarthDragon]

Drake


1. No, I don't believe in clairvoyance, because a short look into it would reveal that it wouldn't be possible, even if the option were open for it to be.

Again you are speaking of which you believe or dont believe in.

so your saying clairvoancy is NOT REAL? OK then flip the script for a minute PROVE its not...see the problem now?


2. Gravity and wind, despite being invisible to the naked eye, are not the same as presumed super-powers.

LOL whos talking about super powers? qi is life not super powers

Again, burden of proof logical fallacy. Gravity and wind are scientifically proven laws, measurable and quantifiable.

Exactly but what about before they were proven??????? did they not exsist? this is what your saying about qi. It hasnt been proven so It cannot possibly esists, dont you see how silly of a statement this is??

xiaomeng

A few things:
1) invisible colour???? Think about that phrase for a minute.

the color was revealed in the film. invisable to the eye but yet has color just as gasses do.

2) Kirlian photography has been PROVEN to be fraught with artifacts and not at all reliable.

by whom? this is world news then what fraud?

3) "seeing things" - be it prana, auras, or ghosts - is related to Liver and Gallbladder dysfunction in Chinese Medicine and is treatable.

Please dont bring dont bring illness and elementary Chinese medicine into this I'm a certified O.M.D


Quote:
Can you measure gravity? can you see wind?

Yes, through its effects.

exactly and 1000's of people can see results from qi effects But according to others it does not exsit.


Qi "exists" in the same way that emotions "exist." They're qualitative, not quantitative. Qi is a relational identifier, not a physical (or metaphysical) entity.

no wait all the posters on this thread say that qi doesnt exsit becuse you cant prove it.. so your saying it does? just need to clairfy


Still defensive, eh? Maybe you'd benefit from clearing your head of all that you know about Qi for a while, too.

not defensive at all , just havng a discussion. I dont give a shiit one way or the other.
Its like religion I have mine you have yours and thats OK but we can still talk about it.

Trouble is there are people like drake, simon who think thier is no God... so whats the point of religion?.(discalimer this is a metaphore dont bite my head off, read between the lines not literal just needd to say that before all you fly off the hook.)

Prove God! but yet i betcha these same guys are in a orginaized religion. well are you simon and drake???????
if you say yes this will be ther icing on the cake!:p

[Drake]

1. Please use spell check.

2. You accuse me of being inflexible? You are bouncing all over the place here. You even went so far as to say I had to prove something DOESN'T exist? You are not making sense, and I am beginning to wonder if this forum is where you go after some hard drinking.

[Drake]

And yes, prove god. Because as of right now, I ain't buying it.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

the color was revealed in the film. invisable to the eye but yet has color just as gasses do.



2) Kirlian photography has been PROVEN to be fraught with artifacts and not at all reliable.

by whom? this is world news then what fraud?


I said "fraught," not "fraud." Fraught means "filled with a specified element or elements," in this case uncontrolled variables. As such, Kirlian photography is not seen as a reliable method of investigating the phenomena it was designed to investigate, because there are too many uncontrolled variables. Do a bit of research, I'm sure you'll find some info on it.



Please dont bring dont bring illness and elementary Chinese medicine into this I'm a certified O.M.D

Your statement is meant to do what, exactly? I'm an acupuncturist, trained in B.C. So far, your posts have made me very thankful that I got my education and training from there.

That said, I will gladly discuss the psychological signs and symptoms of Spleen Qi Deficiency with concommitant Liver Fire and Damp Heat/Phlegm in the Gallbladder with you.


no wait all the posters on this thread say that qi doesnt exsit becuse you cant prove it.. so your saying it does? just need to clairfy

Is it "What is Qi" month or something??? Do a search of my posts on this forum, I've addressed this issue at least 3 times in the last month, and several times before.



not defensive at all , just havng a discussion. I dont give a shiit one way or the other.
The agitated, defensive tone of your posts indicates otherwise, however I apologise if I'm misunderstanding you.



Its like religion I have mine you have yours and thats OK but we can still talk about it.

Bringing up religion in a discussion of Qi does nothing to inspire confidence in your understanding of the subject. Perhaps a different approach would serve you better?

[Drake]

Here you go...

Scenario.

Subject A can see the future, and reveals to Subject B that he will die at Cafe X tomorrow. Subject B, armed with this knowledge, does not go to Cafe X, and to ensure this happens, has a 3rd party lock him inside a room. So, even if by some fairy tale magic it were going to happen, now it is not going to happen, thus negating clairvoyance because determination of future is made by the free will of the people involved. This also opens up additional complications about whether or not the future is written or not. If the future is written, we cannot be responsible for what we do because it has already been determined that we'd do it anyway. Thus free will, sin, and accountability for what we do goes out the window, as this is all written. Ergo, in the first scenario, Subject B, knowing now what fate has set up for him, is really screwing up the cosmos.

People like discussing time travel and psychic powers because it's fun. Not because they take it seriously.

[EarthDragon]

Dranke
1. Please use spell check.

sorry i type fast and dont really feel the need to gramatically correct on this site, however if i mis spell a word and it changes the meaning i aoplogize and will correct it. but geez now my typing is not good enough?

2. You accuse me of being inflexible? You are bouncing all over the place here. You even went so far as to say I had to prove something DOESN'T exist? You are not making sense, and I am beginning to wonder if this forum is where you go after some hard drinking. _

I didnt say your were inflexable i am trying to bring in other examples to shed light on what i am trying to explain, perhaps its not working. i seem to be the only one out here on this thread who cares to respond.

I get PMs daily telling me to give up and move on, they say there are people out here who just dont get it and never will



and yes, prove god. Because as of right now, I ain't buying it.

LOL I wont even go there. do you have a Christmas tree? say no more....



Xiao3 Meng4


I said "fraught," not "fraud." Fraught means "filled with a specified element or elements," in this case uncontrolled variables. As such, Kirlian photography is not seen as a reliable method of investigating the phenomena it was designed to investigate, because there are too many uncontrolled variables. Do a bit of research, I'm sure you'll find some info on it.

sorry i miss read. Of course there is other views on this there are always skeptics of everything scientists are the worst even after proof some wont admit.

Your statement is meant to do what, exactly? I'm an acupuncturist, trained in B.C. So far, your posts have made me very thankful that I got my education and training from there.


My statement was to ask you not to bring symptoms of hallucinations or yin difficientcies into this topic. As well to inform you I have background adn knowledge and not just spouting off from a uneducated basis. I had a guy who was a janitor try to argue the benifits of crainial sacrum therapy and it stopped after i told him what i do. it was not meant to be disrespectful to you.
plus I am certified through Beijing not the US.


That said, I will gladly discuss the psychological signs and symptoms of Spleen Qi Deficiency with concommitant Liver Fire and Damp Heat/Phlegm in the Gallbladder with you.

there is no need as it is irrelevant to the current conversation about qi.
and i dont like ****ing matches.


Is it "What is Qi" month or something??? Do a search of my posts on this forum, I've addressed this issue at least 3 times in the last month, and several times before.

Im not sure, but I have spent way to much time on here just trying to convience people that qi is real...... you would be suprised at the amount of people who think its something from star wars.
You at least understand qi's function, purpoase and properties within the body. thats more than most.


The agitated, defensive tone of your posts indicates otherwise, however I apologise if I'm misunderstanding you.

LOL I didnt know posts have tones. am I laughign now or mad... JK


Bringing up religion in a discussion of Qi does nothing to inspire confidence in your understanding of the subject. Perhaps a different approach would serve you better?

agreed.... as well as what you brought up about GB1 deficiencies

- Time spent developing positive relationships is time spent nourishing Qi. Time spent developing negative relationships is time spent hindering Qi.

well said.. i guess i jsut leave the blind to be blind....


- Let's get off this thing and train.

LOL I hear ya, I teach so I train 5 days a week. I have said many times this is the problem with MA in the US vs China, they do..... we talk about doing...


Here you go...

Scenario.

Subject A can see the future, and reveals to Subject B that he will die at Cafe X tomorrow. Subject B, armed with this knowledge, does not go to Cafe X, and to ensure this happens, has a 3rd party lock him inside a room. So, even if by some fairy tale magic it were going to happen, now it is not going to happen, thus negating clairvoyance because determination of future is made by the free will of the people involved. This also opens up additional complications about whether or not the future is written or not. If the future is written, we cannot be responsible for what we do because it has already been determined that we'd do it anyway. Thus free will, sin, and accountability for what we do goes out the window, as this is all written. Ergo, in the first scenario, Subject B, knowing now what fate has set up for him, is really screwing up the cosmos.

People like discussing time travel and psychic powers because it's fun. Not because they take it seriously.


I have a friend who can see some things in the future and she always says that the future is never set in stone . It is not written by some God or other energy. It is written by the person who is living that life. You have chosen your own fate and you can change it whenever you wish. If Subject A sees Subject B die at a Cafe.. and has his friend locks him up so he doesn't die (you are right there are many variables. How will he die, will it matter if he is locked in his room?? If you are destinied to die you will die. If that means in a Cafe or locked in your room. If Subject B then decides that he does not want to die he wont. We all chose are fate be it our birth, our life and our death. Every move we make determines our fate how we chose to take our paths is our choice. There is no such thing as screwing up the cosmos. Look at it Scientificially-As you know scientiests have proven we are energy --everything is energy and that is all we are. So energy can be changed, transformed and everychanging, so all we are doing as humans is shifting energy. So Qi --(which is just that energy) can be shifted or manipulated by everyone. Some of us are able to manipulate it more than others. No one has to believe in Qi - but one thing is true we are all living, breathing energy. If someone is a Doctor and he treats you, even if it is with medicine he has just shifted your Qi so you get better.

[Drake]

Dranke
1. Please use spell check.

sorry i type fast and dont really feel the need to gramatically correct on this site, however if i mis spell a word and it changes the meaning i aoplogize and will correct it. but geez now my typing is not good enough?

2. You accuse me of being inflexible? You are bouncing all over the place here. You even went so far as to say I had to prove something DOESN'T exist? You are not making sense, and I am beginning to wonder if this forum is where you go after some hard drinking. _

I didnt say your were inflexable i am trying to bring in other examples to shed light on what i am trying to explain, perhaps its not working. i seem to be the only one out here on this thread who cares to respond.

I get PMs daily telling me to give up and move on, they say there are people out here who just dont get it and never will



and yes, prove god. Because as of right now, I ain't buying it.

LOL I wont even go there. do you have a Christmas tree? say no more....



Xiao3 Meng4


I said "fraught," not "fraud." Fraught means "filled with a specified element or elements," in this case uncontrolled variables. As such, Kirlian photography is not seen as a reliable method of investigating the phenomena it was designed to investigate, because there are too many uncontrolled variables. Do a bit of research, I'm sure you'll find some info on it.

sorry i miss read. Of course there is other views on this there are always skeptics of everything scientists are the worst even after proof some wont admit.

Your statement is meant to do what, exactly? I'm an acupuncturist, trained in B.C. So far, your posts have made me very thankful that I got my education and training from there.


My statement was to ask you not to bring symptoms of hallucinations or yin difficientcies into this topic. As well to inform you I have background adn knowledge and not just spouting off from a uneducated basis. I had a guy who was a janitor try to argue the benifits of crainial sacrum therapy and it stopped after i told him what i do. it was not meant to be disrespectful to you.
plus I am certified through Beijing not the US.


That said, I will gladly discuss the psychological signs and symptoms of Spleen Qi Deficiency with concommitant Liver Fire and Damp Heat/Phlegm in the Gallbladder with you.

there is no need as it is irrelevant to the current conversation about qi.
and i dont like ****ing matches.


Is it "What is Qi" month or something??? Do a search of my posts on this forum, I've addressed this issue at least 3 times in the last month, and several times before.

Im not sure, but I have spent way to much time on here just trying to convience people that qi is real...... you would be suprised at the amount of people who think its something from star wars.
You at least understand qi's function, purpoase and properties within the body. thats more than most.


The agitated, defensive tone of your posts indicates otherwise, however I apologise if I'm misunderstanding you.

LOL I didnt know posts have tones. am I laughign now or mad... JK


Bringing up religion in a discussion of Qi does nothing to inspire confidence in your understanding of the subject. Perhaps a different approach would serve you better?

agreed.... as well as what you brought up about GB1 deficiencies

- Time spent developing positive relationships is time spent nourishing Qi. Time spent developing negative relationships is time spent hindering Qi.

well said.. i guess i jsut leave the blind to be blind....


- Let's get off this thing and train.

LOL I hear ya, I teach so I train 5 days a week. I have said many times this is the problem with MA in the US vs China, they do..... we talk about doing...


Here you go...

Scenario.

Subject A can see the future, and reveals to Subject B that he will die at Cafe X tomorrow. Subject B, armed with this knowledge, does not go to Cafe X, and to ensure this happens, has a 3rd party lock him inside a room. So, even if by some fairy tale magic it were going to happen, now it is not going to happen, thus negating clairvoyance because determination of future is made by the free will of the people involved. This also opens up additional complications about whether or not the future is written or not. If the future is written, we cannot be responsible for what we do because it has already been determined that we'd do it anyway. Thus free will, sin, and accountability for what we do goes out the window, as this is all written. Ergo, in the first scenario, Subject B, knowing now what fate has set up for him, is really screwing up the cosmos.

People like discussing time travel and psychic powers because it's fun. Not because they take it seriously.


I have a friend who can see some things in the future and she always says that the future is never set in stone . It is not written by some God or other energy. It is written by the person who is living that life. You have chosen your own fate and you can change it whenever you wish. If Subject A sees Subject B die at a Cafe.. and has his friend locks him up so he doesn't die (you are right there are many variables. How will he die, will it matter if he is locked in his room?? If you are destinied to die you will die. If that means in a Cafe or locked in your room. If Subject B then decides that he does not want to die he wont. We all chose are fate be it our birth, our life and our death. Every move we make determines our fate how we chose to take our paths is our choice. There is no such thing as screwing up the cosmos. Look at it Scientificially-As you know scientiests have proven we are energy --everything is energy and that is all we are. So energy can be changed, transformed and everychanging, so all we are doing as humans is shifting energy. So Qi --(which is just that energy) can be shifted or manipulated by everyone. Some of us are able to manipulate it more than others. No one has to believe in Qi - but one thing is true we are all living, breathing energy. If someone is a Doctor and he treats you, even if it is with medicine he has just shifted your Qi so you get better.


I don't think you type fast. I simply don't think you know how to spell. I can tell the difference between a weak grammar and fast-paced typos. I don't have an X-mas tree, so nice shot, buddy.

Everybody is destined to die. You aren't exactly breaking new ground here. And I am calling you out, and your friend is a fraud. Anyone can guess the future enough and get some things right. It doesn't make you clairvoyant. It makes you an example of the laws of probability.

I can't take you seriously. You are borderline illiterate, your arguments are weak and completely illogical, and you assume too much and expect others to prove your ridiculous theories for you, or disprove, which goes against what you were hopefully taught in grade school. Quite frankly, I would have trouble believing you are older than 12 years old, with your naive attitude, compelling need to assume people believe as you do, and the outlandish prospect of you having a friend who can see the future. You are a loon. And a poorly represented loon at that.

[EarthDragon]

LOL hey Drake you feel better now?

[Drake]

I feel great, actually.

[EarthDragon]

LOL yeah I hear the Army can do that to a man...... but seriously if you wish to post personal attacks then just send me a PM so you dont pollute the public thread with your garbage thanks

[Drake]

LOL yeah I hear the Army can do that to a man...... but seriously if you wish to post personal attacks then just send me a PM so you dont pollute the public thread with your garbage thanks

Ok, you stop posting insanity, I'll stop attacking it. Deal?

[EarthDragon]

Quite a few people out here dont think what I say is insanity and even if it was does that make you feel the need to insult me?

You can always tell when your getting to someone because they eith3er resort to violence or name calling......

[Reverend Tap]

Jebus. Gotta say, I was thinking about chiming in with my thoughts on the existence/nature of qi, but it seems like my available options are either trying not to get lumped in with "studies from my sources or gtfo" omni-skeptics or trying not to get lumped in with silly fluff-bunny new-agers spouting the same stuff that I ran away from when I stopped being wiccan.

Suffice to say, most of what my experiences and thinking on the subject cause me to agree with in this thread has come from Xiao3 Meng4.

[YouKnowWho]

The ability to shoot energy from a distance so that you defeat the opponent without making any sort of contact.
- Whether God exists or not is not interest but whether God can help US to create more jobs will be interest.
- Whether ghost exists or not is not interest but whether ghost can help us to win in Las Vegas will be interest.
- Whether Qi exists or not is not interest but whether Qi can be used in combat without touching will be interest.

[Drake]

- Whether God exists or not is not interest but whether God can help US to create more jobs will be interest.
- Whether ghost exists or not is not interest but whether ghost can help us to win in Las Vegas will be interest.
- Whether Qi exists or not is not interest but whether Qi can be used in combat without touching will be interest.

Quite possibly the best post ever.

[Drake]

Quite a few people out here dont think what I say is insanity and even if it was does that make you feel the need to insult me?

You can always tell when your getting to someone because they eith3er resort to violence or name calling......


Crazy people HATE being called crazy.

[Mr Punch]

Apart from the distinct possibility that Earth Dragon isn't firing on the same cylinders as the rest of us, it seems distinctly churlish to me that Simon hasn't answered his very generous offer of paying his transport and board to visit his chi woman. If you were really interested in keeping an open mind Simon, why wouldn't you accept? I would like a shot if ED offered fly me over from Japan! :D


...and I am beginning to wonder if this forum is where you go after some hard drinking. LOL

[EarthDragon]

you knowwho,
please realize I am speaking of medical qigong. Not martial.
somehow people took medical qigong and twisted it to sound like shooting people like a firearm.

MrPunch,
what makes you say I am not firing on all cylinders? I can aussre you i am one fo the most helpful and openminded people on this board and have been since 1995.
I'm confused about your statement. seems an assumtption more than anytyhing.
Simon will never accept becuase the minute you offer they run. Come on he said hes too broke to own a car then I offered a bus ticket.. he hasnt posted since.

I had a guy on this baord who wanted to fight me and thought although I'm a shifu and fought all my life I was full of crap and didnt know what i was talking about, much like this stupid thread. So I offered to fly him to NY and hold a fight at my kwoon or any place he wanted. The minute I offered publicly to pay he stopped posting... you see everyoe is a tough guy behind thier keyboard. this is the reason people shoot off from the mouths when thier in the saftey of thier own home. Quite pathetic really. You cant convince idiots theres idiots becuase they dont know any better.... all you can do is call them out...

So why are all you people in MA if you dont understand the basis of qi gong? Im not talking to the newbiews who have colored belts Im talking to the lifers or perhaps I AM talking with he colored belt kids and this is the reason non of you understand?

[SimonM]

Hold on... Earth Dragon said yes?

I missed that.

ED: PM me; I will have to check with the wife before I go jetting off to Detroit but we should talk if this is the case and I did miss it.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

sorry i miss read. Of course there is other views on this there are always skeptics of everything scientists are the worst even after proof some wont admit.

Many people who hold beliefs refuse to accept any kind of evidence which shakes or negates their beliefs. For instance, when faced with the reality that Kirlian photography is not conclusive, those people who's ego has a vested interest in Kirlian photography's "proof" just brush off this fact by saying something like "there are always skeptics of everything." Conversely, those people whose ego has a vested interest in a certain healing modality being a placebo, when faced with proof to the contrary, may say something like "there's always a quack claiming they've proven it works."

In the end, what's the difference between those two statements or viewpoints? Not much, in my opinion. Both are expressions of a rigid, inflexible mindset, developed as a coping mechanism to protect the ego. It's fine to believe in something, I just recommend people keep an open mind.



My statement was to ask you not to bring symptoms of hallucinations or yin difficientcies into this topic.

When you start talking about auras, my thoughts instantly head in that direction, since that is what I understand and was taught auras to be.



i dont like ****ing matches.


Funny how you regard my offer to discuss a certain aspect of Chinese Medicine with you as a ****ing match, especially one that revolves around manifestations which often confuse and hinder people's understanding of Qi. Why couldn't it simply be an enlightening discussion?



Im not sure, but I have spent way to much time on here just trying to convience people that qi is real...... you would be suprised at the amount of people who think its something from star wars.


Granted, George Lucas did little to help the world understand Qi, and he may even have hindered the process, but we can't lay the blame entirely on him; responsibility lies with all people who base their worldview around the premise that Qi is quantitative and measurable. That kind of thinking is very VERY Western - the result of reductionism and logical positivism - and useless with regards to understanding and applying Qi. This is why anyone who starts spouting "scientific proof" of Qi is, in my books, way WAY off the mark - in Star Wars land, as you say.



LOL I didnt know posts have tones.

Yet you claim to understand Qi? :confused:

[Drake]

you knowwho,
please realize I am speaking of medical qigong. Not martial.
somehow people took medical qigong and twisted it to sound like shooting people like a firearm.

MrPunch,
what makes you say I am not firing on all cylinders? I can aussre you i am one fo the most helpful and openminded people on this board and have been since 1995.
I'm confused about your statement. seems an assumtption more than anytyhing.
Simon will never accept becuase the minute you offer they run. Come on he said hes too broke to own a car then I offered a bus ticket.. he hasnt posted since.

I had a guy on this baord who wanted to fight me and thought although I'm a shifu and fought all my life I was full of crap and didnt know what i was talking about, much like this stupid thread. So I offered to fly him to NY and hold a fight at my kwoon or any place he wanted. The minute I offered publicly to pay he stopped posting... you see everyoe is a tough guy behind thier keyboard. this is the reason people shoot off from the mouths when thier in the saftey of thier own home. Quite pathetic really. You cant convince idiots theres idiots becuase they dont know any better.... all you can do is call them out...

So why are all you people in MA if you dont understand the basis of qi gong? Im not talking to the newbiews who have colored belts Im talking to the lifers or perhaps I AM talking with he colored belt kids and this is the reason non of you understand?

Is this the same guy who said name-calling is bad? Dude, you are judging and namecalling and then get all bent out of shape when someone dares question your whacked out worldview, complete with qi blasts and psychic friends.

[YouKnowWho]

you knowwho,
please realize I am speaking of medical qigong. Not martial.
somehow people took medical qigong and twisted it to sound like shooting people like a firearm.
I know! :)

I have always want to meet someone who can move me without touching. But so far my luck is still not there yet.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

what makes you say I am not firing on all cylinders? I can aussre you i am one fo the most helpful and openminded people on this board and have been since 1995.


Claiming to be "one of the most" anything is usually a good indication that someone's not firing on all cylinders. Or, to put it another way, their Qi is not balanced and flowing properly. It's along the same lines as a person warning someone off a subject because they're "an expert" or "an (insert important sounding title here.)"



You cant convince idiots theres idiots becuase they dont know any better.... all you can do is call them out...


Are you suggesting this is what we should do? Seems like you're back into the "something to prove" mindset... although I still think it's more of a "something to prove to yourself" kind of thing. Belief and doubt are inter-related and feed off of one another, hence belief and doubt have equal weight and equal value (which isn't much.)

Here's my suggestion: regardless of belief or doubt, when people refuse to discuss things responsibly, ignore them. Why waste your time?



So why are all you people in MA if you dont understand the basis of qi gong? Im not talking to the newbiews who have colored belts Im talking to the lifers or perhaps I AM talking with he colored belt kids and this is the reason non of you understand?

This from an OMD who claims Qi is quantitative and measurable. Wonderful. :rolleyes:

I should probably follow my own advice and not waste any more time on this thread.

[Drake]

Claiming to be "one of the most" anything is usually a good indication that someone's not firing on all cylinders. Or, to put it another way, their Qi is not balanced and flowing properly. It's along the same lines as a person warning someone off a subject because they're "an expert" or "an (insert important sounding title here.)"



Are you suggesting this is what we should do? Seems like you're back into the "something to prove" mindset... although I still think it's more of a "something to prove to yourself" kind of thing. Belief and doubt are inter-related and feed off of one another, hence belief and doubt have equal weight and equal value (which isn't much.)

Here's my suggestion: regardless of belief or doubt, when people refuse to discuss things responsibly, ignore them. Why waste your time?



This from an OMD who claims Qi is quantitative and measurable. Wonderful. :rolleyes:

I should probably follow my own advice and not waste any more time on this thread.


Don't leave me alone with him!

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Don't leave me alone with him!

lol!

(Rest of message deleted due to pointlessness.)

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Here are some interesting links. Please note that they do not mention Qi whatsoever.

Blind man navigates through maze (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7794783.stm)

Jill Bolte Taylor's Stroke of Insight (http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.htm l)

Enjoy.

[EarthDragon]

xiaomeng, thanks for the discussions i enjoyed your posts and will take your suggestion Here's my suggestion: regardless of belief or doubt, when people refuse to discuss things responsibly, ignore them. Why waste your time?.

Simon I PM'd you the offer is still on the table.

Drake your just an ass hole .............but to the others have a great holiday and a happy new year.

Now I know why they say the real martial artsits stay off the main board...

[Ray Pina]

I learned how to MAKE IT LOOK like you can project energy.... a needle, a little thread and a banana. use the thread to split the banana. Wave the hand and then peel the banana.

[flem]

tainan,

i have an unfounded theory about these methods. i believe that learning these methods requires not only the right teachings and the right teacher, but also the right place. while investigating other matters having nothing to do with martial arts or chi kung, i have been exposed to the magnetic belts around the earth. i think it is probable that the "dragon veins" that most, if not all temples and other training places are built around in china are "hot spots" for using this energy. and since magnetic energy is electric and so is chi, it makes sense to me that these three go hand in hand.

i came upon one Ed Ledskalnin who built the coral castle in south florida... the place that he chose for the coral castle apparently was a magnetic "hot spot". (he moved large coral/stone blocks alone... never eye-witnessed) further research about ed, i also found out that he had the worst type of tuberculosis that he self cured using some form of spinning mechanism that he sat upon and it also involved the use of magnets.

[Drake]

xiaomeng, thanks for the discussions i enjoyed your posts and will take your suggestion Here's my suggestion: regardless of belief or doubt, when people refuse to discuss things responsibly, ignore them. Why waste your time?.

Simon I PM'd you the offer is still on the table.

Drake your just an ass hole .............but to the others have a great holiday and a happy new year.

Now I know why they say the real martial artsits stay off the main board...

Oh, now that sounds like the voice of a rooted individual. :)

Whatcha gonna do? Chi blast me? I mean, because, matter is energy, and energy is on the planet, so by magical prowess, we can harness that energy like a generator, because, yeah, that makes perfect scientific sense. It's SO SIMPLE!

And they stay off the board because of quacks like you.

[notanexit]

This thread is about an unamed fraud who lies and rips off people for money.However,when I started a thread about an unamed fraud who rips people off here in Ft.worth I get attacked.He teaches pirated material,fake "taji",lied about being a disciple(still claims it on his website).What's the difference between the "chi" fraud and the mantis fraud?

[AJM]

None in my mind.